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Defenestrategy posted:< https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IVXJmfd3cmg
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May 17, 2018 23:28
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> This is why we don't have more tradmartial arts goons around.
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I did JKD for a few years and the bits that worked were the punching and kicking people and not the wing chun stuff. I did BJJ for about five years and that worked real nice too. So here’s my top three: BJJ Punching and Kicking People Wing Chun Feel free to change the top two about as you please.
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May 17, 2018 23:29
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Novum posted:Thats probably the more helpful way to phrase it. Judo nerds this applies to you too. there is universality to learning the japanese names. theyre actually not hard, and gives people from different nations a standard language. i've trained with people who dont speak a lick of english and gotten great instruction from them because i have a basic grasp of a judo terminology. any martial art is just as full of jargon. wtf is a kimura or a americana or a x guard or a de la riva? none of these things are descriptive at all.
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May 18, 2018 00:18
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I like Wing Chun. People just use it wrong by not adapting to the real world. In close quarters, Wing Chung works very well for temporary traps and blocking. Walking toward your opponent in the classic stance is stupid though. Use Wing Chun when you are in position to use Wing Chun. Use standard MMA otherwise. Same with traditional jj. It's got some good stuff, but I consider it an intermediary art. It needs something else with it.
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May 18, 2018 00:19
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gently caress that, if you ain't jabbing from range then swinging bombs wildly whilst ready to sprawl, your getting knocked out. Sprawl and brawl > Stand and bang > wrestling > Bjj > anything else that involves doing stuff slowly and prettily that doesn't work in mma.
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May 18, 2018 00:24
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hi liter posted:there is universality to learning the japanese names. theyre actually not hard, and gives people from different nations a standard language. i've trained with people who dont speak a lick of english and gotten great instruction from them because i have a basic grasp of a judo terminology. Yeah. This doesn't mean we can't use english ever or that every single technique needs to be written in japanese, but the fact that osoto gari is the same in the USA as DR Congo as Kazakhstan as Vietnam is handy for international competition and also pretty neat generally.
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May 18, 2018 00:25
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The Human Crouton posted:I like Wing Chun. People just use it wrong by not adapting to the real world. In close quarters, Wing Chung works very well for temporary traps and blocking. Okay, I’ll take the bait: never met anyone doing any kind of Wing Chunnery that was worth their effort. I used to literally repeatedly smash a guy in the face with jabs who couldn’t believe his six years of training couldn’t overcome my idiocy of just “carrying on hitting him”. I can see how it was worth him learning for the art of it. But it didn’t work. Not a brag, I’m a loving dumbshit at striking with very bad coordination due to an inner ear problem. And I’ve just realised at this point we’re getting into the thread’s favourite argument and hell: do what’s fun. Fighting is stupid, sparring is fun.
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May 18, 2018 00:29
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The Human Crouton posted:I like Wing Chun. People just use it wrong by not adapting to the real world. In close quarters, Wing Chung works very well for temporary traps and blocking.
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May 18, 2018 00:33
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quidditch it and quit it posted:Okay, I’ll take the bait: never met anyone doing any kind of Wing Chunnery that was worth their effort. I used to literally repeatedly smash a guy in the face with jabs who couldn’t believe his six years of training couldn’t overcome my idiocy of just “carrying on hitting him”. Probably because that was a person who didn't use Wing Chun at the right time. He learned his stupid stance with the arms stretched out, and approached all mystically with the intention of intercepting your punches. Wing Chun shines in the distance between jabs and the clinch, and also the moment you break from the clinch. Wing Chun is terrible at standing up and trading punches. kimbo305 posted:The range for WC is exceedingly narrow, imo. It doesn't have the answers for really stopping a clinch from happening. You might deflect one attempt, but the next one will have closed even more distance. Yeah, I agree with that. I just find it very helpful for that range though. I find it good for getting the advantage when the clinch does happen. I should point out that I'm primarily a Kali fighter, so I'll be in that range a lot, and that one block at close range is something really important in a knife scenario. Also, I learned both Wing Chun and Japanese Jiu Jitsu from people who learned it the classic way and then had already gone into the MMA/Wrestling/Boxing/BJJ world and adapted parts of it. So the parts that don't work were shown for completion sake, but weren't actually practiced in any real sense or put on tests or anything like that. I don't even know the names of most of the techniques. I just know how to do them. The Human Crouton fucked around with this message at 00:44 on May 18, 2018 |
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May 18, 2018 00:37
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Never dealt with a wing chun person in the gym. I've happened across plenty of krav maga dudes who washed out in two sessions and the occasional tae kwon do people who weren't terrible in sparring. Never wing chun though.
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May 18, 2018 00:44
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kimbo305 posted:The range for WC is exceedingly narrow, imo. It doesn't have the answers for really stopping a clinch from happening. You might deflect one attempt, but the next one will have closed even more distance. I'd say the range is so exceedingly narrow for Wing Chun that it may as well not exist because of the lack of ability to ever voluntarily enter it and keep it there without switching to a range where grappling, punching, and kicking would have been a better option than an attempt to do trapping shenanigans. Whereas with punching them/kicking/grappling you have a ton of techniques to enter the range you want and keep your opponent there.
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May 18, 2018 02:25
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I know that Jack Slack gets some poo poo here - - but he did a few articles that analysed Robbie Lawler fights through the lends of Wing Chun techniques, particularly hand trapping, and they were pretty neat.
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May 18, 2018 03:00
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Jack Slack is bad? 
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May 18, 2018 03:23
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Defenestrategy posted:I'd say the range is so exceedingly narrow for Wing Chun that it may as well not exist because of the lack of ability to ever voluntarily enter it and keep it there without switching to a range where grappling, punching, and kicking would have been a better option than an attempt to do trapping shenanigans. Whereas with punching them/kicking/grappling you have a ton of techniques to enter the range you want and keep your opponent there. Don't they have trouble with rotational attacks, too? So it's like, an entire system built around being in that brief transitional range that exists: too far to clinch too far for an elbow too far for a knee the correct range for a long hook (but we can't deal with those) too close for a jab too close for a straight That range might occasionally pop up for a tenth of a second at best
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May 18, 2018 04:06
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this week they brought a caricature artist to work and I had to sit there as he drew me listening to him talk about his japanese jiu jitsu experience and how his green belts would tap out 3rd degree BJJ black belts with their secret moves. he was so fat and his pony tail was so long and I didn't know that people like him existed in real life. i didnt want to believe
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May 18, 2018 04:15
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Wangsbig posted:this week they brought a caricature artist to work and I had to sit there as he drew me listening to him talk about his japanese jiu jitsu experience and how his green belts would tap out 3rd degree BJJ black belts with their secret moves. he was so fat and his pony tail was so long and I didn't know that people like him existed in real life. i didnt want to believe ...do you work at a carnival?
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May 18, 2018 04:17
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Wangsbig posted:this week they brought a caricature artist to work and I had to sit there as he drew me listening to him talk about his japanese jiu jitsu experience and how his green belts would tap out 3rd degree BJJ black belts with their secret moves. he was so fat and his pony tail was so long and I didn't know that people like him existed in real life. i didnt want to believe He is a caricature artist, to be fair.
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May 18, 2018 04:17
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Mechafunkzilla posted:...do you work at a carnival? no i work at a big 4 tech company office and they treat us like children
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May 18, 2018 04:18
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Wangsbig posted:no i work at a big 4 tech company office and they treat us like children Well you do play Dota so they aren't that far off.
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May 18, 2018 04:31
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I know one guy who has done JJJ whose opinions I trust - he has also done BJJ and he's a very good brown belt in judo, not to mention a bit of military experience. He likes JJJ as a self-defense thing because in his experience they just go right for the testicles and eye gouging. The impression that I get is that these are good moves to use on someone who isn't expecting them, and who you don't care about injuring. So maybe the guy's green belts went into the guard of the 3rd degree black belt, and just started punching the motherfucker in the nads, and then grabbed his nads and twisted, and then when he broke their posture they started gouging him in the eyes and at that point the black belt was like "ok gently caress this poo poo" and tapped. Secret move! And they found multiple green belts and 3rd degree bjj black belts to do this experiment multiple times. 
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May 18, 2018 04:42
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"Everybody underestimates a good kick to the groin." Bas Rutten
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May 18, 2018 04:45
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02-6611-0142-1 posted:Don't they have trouble with rotational attacks, too? It has problems with every attack. It's a pretty incomplete system. Someone on bullshido posted something a while ago that's probably false and I'm half remembering, but it has an air of truthiness about it, but it went something like Wing Chun might have a grain of truth in it some where, like at one time everyone in china who fought knew how to fight properly and wing chun was an addition to a curriculum of knowing how to box, kick, and grapple. Then over hundreds of years, people passed down wing chun like it was a complete art instead of as an addendum to already knowing how to fight, and now no one knows how to actually use it, because the way to actually no poo poo use it in a fight is lost to history. Defenestrategy fucked around with this message at 05:06 on May 18, 2018 |
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May 18, 2018 05:04
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Guys, I've seen all three Ip Man films. Wing Chun is legit.
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May 18, 2018 05:08
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CommonShore posted:I know one guy who has done JJJ whose opinions I trust - he has also done BJJ and he's a very good brown belt in judo, not to mention a bit of military experience. He likes JJJ as a self-defense thing because in his experience they just go right for the testicles and eye gouging. The impression that I get is that these are good moves to use on someone who isn't expecting them, and who you don't care about injuring. i care not of my eyes or balls. go ahead bitch. pummel my orbs
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May 18, 2018 05:26
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The only true defense to the nutshot : getting off on it.
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May 18, 2018 05:41
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Defenestrategy posted:It has problems with every attack. It's a pretty incomplete system. isn't this basically what most people say about aikido too? that everyone who originally trained aikido under its founder had black belts in judo or karate already
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May 18, 2018 06:45
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Guys no man alive or otherwise would ever have beaten Bruce Lee, JKD is too strong
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May 18, 2018 08:07
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Neon Belly posted:Jack Slack is bad? Slack is the best MMA writer today. But he's not perfect, and some people are incapable of distinguishing between "not perfect" and "bad". Cephas posted:isn't this basically what most people say about aikido too? that everyone who originally trained aikido under its founder had black belts in judo or karate already Yeah, that's the aikido story.
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May 18, 2018 08:14
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The amazing part about Jack Slack is that he intersperses clips that illustrate what he's talking about, which kinda has the effect of making his claims inherently true. I haven't seen any other writer that is able to break down the striking game like he does. I've even caught myself reading articles and going "man this guy knows what he's talking about" and scrolling up and it's Jack Slack writing the drat article
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May 18, 2018 08:56
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JaySB posted:Guys, I've seen all three Ip Man films. Wing Chun is legit. A good friend of mine has this exact opinion. "Wing Chun is good against boxers". He was really into Bruce Lee for a bit too, and would practice the 1 inch and 3 inch punch on a heavy bag we had when we lived together. At one point I got tired of him talking about this, so I asked him to 3 inch punch me. He could do it as hard as he liked. I'm real skinny so my sternum/solar plexus/gut isn't really shielded my muscle. And he's a big guy, 6'5 200lbs, with a little boxing experience. It stung a bit with repeated blows, but it mostly did nothing.
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May 18, 2018 09:09
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Defenestrategy posted:Then over hundreds of years, people passed down wing chun like it was a complete art instead of as an addendum to already knowing how to fight, and now no one knows how to actually use it, because the way to actually no poo poo use it in a fight is lost to history.  Most Chinese martial arts aren't ancient, they can't be reliably dated back further than the late 1800's.Mind you, China was kind of a messy place back then, which is why Wing Chun has its weapons curriculums for those big knives and long poles you see in the movies. I'm pretty confident that back in the day, it was weapon training that was the meat and potatoes of martial arts schools, not... shuffling around and trying to trap jabs.
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May 18, 2018 10:34
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CommonShore posted:I know that Jack Slack gets some poo poo here - Yeah that's a good article. Lawler is also a pretty complete fighter, with many layers to his game. You could see how 100 or 200 years ago a dude like that could tear it up, found a style and then have it slowly transform into weird poo poo after a few generations. Hell Lawler doesn't spar (anymore) so you've even got that baked in.
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May 18, 2018 12:34
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Siivola posted:Mind you, China was kind of a messy place back then, which is why Wing Chun has its weapons curriculums for those big knives and long poles you see in the movies. I'm pretty confident that back in the day, it was weapon training that was the meat and potatoes of martial arts schools, not... shuffling around and trying to trap jabs. Bullshit, the historical documentary Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon says otherwise. I can possibly see them developing different styles of trapping to deal with weapons in the same way that Aikidlol was meant to deal with weapons back in the day and just being compartmentalized.
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May 18, 2018 15:16
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JaySB posted:I can possibly see them developing different styles of trapping to deal with weapons in the same way that Aikidlol was meant to deal with weapons back in the day and just being compartmentalized. I thought Jujutsu was meant to deal with weapons back in the day like when a Samurai became disarmed somehow. All that history is very loving murky.
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May 18, 2018 17:00
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Tacos Al Pastor posted:I thought Jujutsu was meant to deal with weapons back in the day like when a Samurai became disarmed somehow. I'm sure each dojo developed their own style and called it whatever the gently caress they wanted. And then they battled it out to see who was superior.
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May 18, 2018 17:18
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Really want to see some wing chun nerd enter something like this and get exposed like the early ufc days https://twitter.com/onechampionship/status/997513452460490752?s=21
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May 18, 2018 17:58
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willie_dee posted:Really want to see some wing chun nerd enter something like this and get exposed like the early ufc days I kinda wish for a return of early ufc freak show fights. Where you never knew what the gently caress who was gonna show up. Some pasty dude with a beer gut who just wanted to stand and deliever? A small south american dude wearing pajamas? Tom Selleck in wrestling speedo? A literal sumo wrestler? It was like mortal kombat or street fighter, except real.
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May 18, 2018 18:12
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Agreed, id want to enter if it meant fighting Akido dick heads
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May 18, 2018 18:20
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i want to see a tournament between guys that actually train & 'i do ufc' guys or ones that have been going to their rec center gym for a few months or whatever
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May 18, 2018 18:24
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Wangsbig posted:i want to see a tournament between guys that actually train & 'i do ufc' guys or ones that have been going to their rec center gym for a few months or whatever Why would you want to see trained guys vs amateurs? They would be too one sided.
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May 18, 2018 18:31
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