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Trotsky was worse than Stalin and it was no loss to the world when he died.
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May 20, 2018 04:04
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rudatron posted:it's also one of the biggest failings of both liberals and conservatives in understanding/engaging with leftist theory, in that they think leftist theory simply amounts to "capitalists are bad people and so you get rid of the bad people, bing bong" and not 'the entire system is structured to be evil, the virtue of individuals is irrelevant' 
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May 20, 2018 04:05
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MizPiz posted:Serious leftist: Bring back the guillotine! serious leftist: if u don't get caremad and you don't have incel rage about grimes ur definitely bourgeois
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May 20, 2018 04:05
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:Trotsky was worse than Stalin and it was no loss to the world when he died.
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May 20, 2018 04:14
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one of the biggest things about the anti-trot stuff from other leftists, is that is basically mirrors what the right says about the left as a whole. Parasitic, ineffectual, deceptive, disruptive, etc etc. so I can't help but think there's some sublimated ressentiment at play
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May 20, 2018 04:14
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I just think it's funny that Trot rhymes with Thot
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May 20, 2018 04:31
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:Trotsky was uglier than Stalin and it was no loss to the world when he died.
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May 20, 2018 08:12
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i think jokes about either trotsky or stalin can be funny i also think they each had their positive and negative qualities and had the trotskyist bloc actually governed the ussr they would have adopted similar policies to stalin's, much like stalin adopted the left opposition's policies after the nep
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May 20, 2018 09:55
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R. Guyovich posted:i think jokes about either trotsky or stalin can be funny its as if there was a large network of allied states working to undermine the union
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May 20, 2018 12:49
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Hows Burkina Faso doing since they elected a socialist
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May 20, 2018 13:08
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The Virgin liquidation of the Czech Legion vs the Chad Katyn Massacre.
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May 20, 2018 13:11
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apropos to nothing posted:yeah idgaf what people think about trotsky or whatever but when they make jokes about stalin being cool and good and ice picks and poo poo they ignore that thousands of socialists, committed bolsheviks, were sent to concentration camps and executed Trotsky was the one who orchestrated the Kronstadt massacre so believing he wouldn’t have used the state’s monopoly on violence to silence his political dissenters ala Stalin seems to be revisionist at best
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May 20, 2018 15:18
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trotsky was the leader of the red army but he didnt organize anything at kronstandt and had little if anything to do with the decisions made during the event. like if you want to blame him solely for the crimes and excesses of the red army during the civil war then ok but I dont think thats fair. in the same way that i wouldnt blame stalin for the mass rapes and assaults in places like yugoslavia by the red army when they occupied it at the end of ww2 despite my antipathy for stalin and the system that put him in place. all this ignores the fact that the post you quoted is me complaining about how people glorify stalin despite his regime killing thousands of political opponents within the party, many of whom were not trotskyists at all but were just "smeared" as such by the NKVD. the same thing happened to a lesser degree in parties around the world. for example the CPUSA expelling the trotskyist faction that went on to form the SWP but also expelling groups like the one formed around Jay Lovestone who weren't trotskyist but just objected to the CPUSA tactic of attacking trotskyists, IWW, and socialist party members in the streets while they were tabling or leading meetings
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May 20, 2018 15:53
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At the very least, by describing other leftist's lives as without value, you're legitimizing fascist rhetoric that applies that same logic to the left as a whole, which it uses to justify its persecution of the left to normies.
rudatron fucked around with this message at 16:17 on May 20, 2018 |
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May 20, 2018 16:15
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unfortunately no lives have value in our society
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May 20, 2018 17:10
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trotsky was good but i agree that the material conditions of the isolated soviet union made it inevitably varying degrees of authoritarian also lol trotskyist groups are a lot of insufferable things but i wouldnt call them out as having pro imperialist views
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May 20, 2018 17:25
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kronstadt was good, so was killing the royal family. that’s civil war buddy
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May 20, 2018 17:25
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The royal family should have been humiliated and reduced to private citizenship like puyi but conditions weren't ideal by then so the shooting had to be done
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May 20, 2018 17:30
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the Right has an unbridled stranglehold on global power and will continue to all the way up until our species chokes and dies from climate change so none of these tactical decisions really matter in the long run namaste
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May 20, 2018 17:35
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hosed up but true
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May 20, 2018 17:36
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apropos to nothing posted:trotsky was the leader of the red army but he didnt organize anything at kronstandt and had little if anything to do with the decisions made during the event. like if you want to blame him solely for the crimes and excesses of the red army during the civil war then ok but I dont think thats fair. in the same way that i wouldnt blame stalin for the mass rapes and assaults in places like yugoslavia by the red army when they occupied it at the end of ww2 despite my antipathy for stalin and the system that put him in place. honer are troops
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May 20, 2018 19:24
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Kronstadt is like the stabbed-in-the-back myth for anarchists. It was a relatively minor rebellion against the Bolsheviks, and hardly their low point in the civil war. I wish people would stop relitigating it.
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May 20, 2018 19:29
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The Kronstadt rebels were really dumb and got a lot of people killed for no good reason. They should have just left the country and tried founding a commune on Gottland or something.
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May 20, 2018 19:35
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https://twitter.com/DedamacsinsBrat/status/998252670333923330
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May 20, 2018 20:11
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the kronstadt rebellion was anything but "minor" lol it was a response to the perceived rightward/authoritarian turn of the central government and helped motivate the NEP. it was a lost cause, but deserves our sympathy imo
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May 20, 2018 20:34
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It's highly questionable how much Kronstadt contributed to the NEP when the more serious threat came from peasant revolts against war communism and grain requisitioning, and the very real and immediate problems of declining production as a result of the civil war. Doing everything by decree wasn't sustainable.
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May 20, 2018 20:45
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Yossarian-22 posted:the kronstadt rebellion was anything but "minor" lol It was minor compared to much larger black and green movements, both of which (particularly the latter, which had a whole fuckload more to do with the NEP than Kronstadt) resulted in much more widespread and brutal repression. The attachment to Kronstadt is just a self-serving attempt to identify a clear "betrayal" in what was an unspeakably cruel war and consolidation of political power by the Bolsheviks. It's ideologically significant because certain people choose to make it part of their founding myth of socialism.
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May 20, 2018 20:50
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the whiskey rebellion was unquestionably less important than the revolutionary war and therefore it's of no importance i guess
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May 20, 2018 20:53
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actuakly folks, trotsky was good when he was killing socialists but... he was bad when he got so (((perfidious))) 
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May 20, 2018 20:57
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nobody knows anything about burkina faso then?
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May 20, 2018 20:57
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it was minor in the sense that it was one rebellion in a civil war that saw many such risings. it was the last major one to take place anywhere near the capitol though. a big part of the reason why its so closely tied to anarchists and the stabbed-in-the-back idea like thug lessons said is that during the spanish civil war, there was a lot of propaganda that attempted to discredit the trots there by slandering trotsky himself, specifically over his leadership role in the red army during the civil war. you wont find much if anything written about the event between 1922-1936 or so but then all of a sudden a lot is written about it in the mid-late 30s
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May 20, 2018 20:59
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Jose posted:nobody knows anything about burkina faso then? most people dont even know what it is
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May 20, 2018 21:02
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emma goldman wrote about it in a book in 1923 about her time in russia, but hers isnt a firsthand account other than she was in russia during the civil war. thats where a lot of the charges against trotsky specifically and the bolsheviks more generally originate from among anarchists
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May 20, 2018 21:06
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trotsky lost
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May 20, 2018 21:12
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May 20, 2018 21:13
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lollontee posted:trotsky lost not against the white army!!
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May 20, 2018 21:13
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Jose posted:nobody knows anything about burkina faso then? Not much news comes out of Africa generally. If we're not hearing anything about a socialist party government in Burkina Faso then they must not be doing bad, or else we'd hear about it non-stop. There's a bunch of news about them dealing with Muslim extremists in their Sahel territory. The only thing not terrorism-related is that the ICC said Frank Timis doesn't have grounds to sue the country because they revoked his contract to develop a manganese mine, since it was approved by the Compaore government. But 5 days ago they granted him a contract to develop a railroad that'll link Burkina Faso with the Ivory Coast so 
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May 20, 2018 21:13
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https://twitter.com/cpimpuducherry/status/997884712382279681
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May 20, 2018 23:34
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GalacticAcid posted:the Right has an unbridled stranglehold on global power and will continue to all the way up until our species chokes and dies from climate change so none of these tactical decisions really matter in the long run
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May 20, 2018 23:39
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any background on that photo?
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May 20, 2018 23:39
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