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sassassin posted:Her very, very clearest motivation is to ingratiate herself to the Fareed family. McGillis' regard is her primary concern. Her position is a tool, and one she is delighted to have an opportunity to wield in service of a child molester's political aims. No it isn't. Her only motivation in that regard is McGillis himself, whom she is clearly in love with. The harem squad's a bit of a clue  . She stands as a proud member of the Issue family, and all her actions reflect her upbringing requiring her to uphold the family's pride and honor. That's why when she confronts a hostile force, she challenges them to an honorable 3v3 duel rather than just destroying the tracks and telling them to surrender before they can launch their mobile suits.
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May 20, 2018 14:53
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sassassin posted:Her very, very clearest motivation is to ingratiate herself to the Fareed family. McGillis' regard is her primary concern. Her position is a tool, and one she is delighted to have an opportunity to wield in service of a child molester's political aims. I'm confused by this reading. She's an independent commander of a fleet that gets humiliated on multiple occasions by Tekkadan. She has a giant crush on McGillis, but aside from her Blonde Bishie Squadron that's never really shown to be a major driver in her decision making, her damaged honor from her failure to stop Tekkadan is. Her primary interaction with McGillis in the show prior to her death is when McGillis providing a "convenient" tip about Tekkadan's whereabouts to her. I don't really get where you get the child molester thing from, since Iznario is the child molester and Carta never interacts with him. McGillis is only betrothed to Almiria at the time, and it's recognized by everyone, including her own brother, as a political marriage. Carta's idea of what honor is is made very clear by her repeated attempts to engage Tekkadan in knightly duels between equals. If she just wanted to stop Tekkadan dead she could have bombarded them on the island or blown the train tracks in advance and ambushed them with a couple dozen Grazes. But that's not honorable or befitting her dignity as one of the Seven Stars as she understands it. Kanos fucked around with this message at 15:00 on May 20, 2018 |
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May 20, 2018 14:57
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Kanos posted:I don't really get where you get the child molester thing from, since Iznario is the child molester and Carta never interacts with him. McGillis is only betrothed to Almiria at the time, and it's recognized by everyone, including her own brother, as a political marriage. Iznario's political gambit is the basis of most of Gjallarhorn's opposition to Kudelia and Tekkadan. Stopping them getting to Earth and then Edmonton supports his aims rather than the main purpose of their organisation. She doesn't realise that McGillis hates his "father", and that by supporting Iznario she gets her name added to his list of deaths necessary to cleanse the corrupted Gjallarhorn. She dies thinking only of McGillis, who doesn't give a poo poo about her.
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May 20, 2018 15:28
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sassassin posted:Iznario's political gambit is the basis of most of Gjallarhorn's opposition to Kudelia and Tekkadan. Stopping them getting to Earth and then Edmonton supports his aims rather than the main purpose of their organisation. That political stuff is taking place on a level completely removed from Carta's sphere of interest or influence. She is never shown or said to have a single clue about how or why Tekkadan became wanted criminals or why Gjallarhorn wants Kudelia stopped; her job is to command the fleet that defends Earth's orbit and when Tekkadan arrives at Earth they're already wanted criminals. They ignore her order to halt and run her blockade, which makes her look like an incompetent fool who can't do her job. She tries to redeem herself by attacking them on their island hideaway and gets humiliated again, which sets her up for her final fall. You're ascribing motivations to her that simply don't exist. She's on McGillis's list because she's a noblewoman who is emblematic of the system McGillis wants to annihilate from history, not because she's part of some fifth dimensional chess scheme involving Iznario that would require her to be a far greater political operator than she is ever shown to be. Gaelio is on McGillis's list to die too; does that mean that Gaelio was secretly supporting Iznario's political maneuverings? She dies mumbling McGillis's name because she's fatally wounded and hallucinating and McGillis(who she has always loved) is one of the last people she spoke to before she died. Kanos fucked around with this message at 15:48 on May 20, 2018 |
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May 20, 2018 15:39
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It also, retroactively, ties into how badly McGillis fumbled his own revolution. If he'd been less of a destructive manchild about it, he would've had Carta commanding the entire Earth Defense Fleet in his name and Gaelio on his side.
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May 20, 2018 15:43
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Gaelio tries to stop Tekkadan, but not secretly no.
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May 20, 2018 15:45
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sassassin posted:Gaelio tries to stop Tekkadan, but not secretly no. Did you miss the final showdown against Fareed where Gaelio pretty clearly says he would've joined Fareed if he'd asked.
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May 20, 2018 15:47
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Neddy Seagoon posted:It also, retroactively, ties into how badly McGillis fumbled his own revolution. If he'd been less of a destructive manchild about it, he would've had Carta commanding the entire Earth Defense Fleet in his name and Gaelio on his side. McGillis's actions in season 1 make his approach to Tekkadan in season 2 actually wonderful to watch. He's got this slimy "Oh, I'll never betray you, my loyal friends" smarm to him during his talks with Orga while the viewer can scream "no god, please no" at their monitor in vain. And then he never actually betrays them, it just turns out that he's a psycho with his head in the clouds and never had a concrete plan anyway. 
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May 20, 2018 15:49
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Kanos posted:McGillis's actions in season 1 make his approach to Tekkadan in season 2 actually wonderful to watch. He's got this slimy "Oh, I'll never betray you, my loyal friends" smarm to him during his talks with Orga while the viewer can scream "no god, please no" at their monitor in vain. The scenes of him with his wife are cringingly disturbing to watch too, because you can clearly tell that every single word he says to her is a manipulation or lie. Also if it would've gotten him what he wanted, he would've burned Tekkadan in a heartbeat.
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May 20, 2018 15:53
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Neddy Seagoon posted:It also, retroactively, ties into how badly McGillis fumbled his own revolution. If he'd been less of a destructive manchild about it, he would've had Carta commanding the entire Earth Defense Fleet in his name and Gaelio on his side. If only he hadn't spent his entire life either fighting for scraps in the gutter or being abused by authority figures, maybe he could have trusted some people. He's pretty much unable to entertain having anyone of equal or greater strength as an ally. Making himself vulnerable is unthinkable, a successful revolution isn't a priority compared to his own sense of safety. If he was able to make friends he wouldn't want a revolution in the first place.
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May 20, 2018 15:54
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Neddy Seagoon posted:Did you miss the final showdown against Fareed where Gaelio pretty clearly says he would've joined Fareed if he'd asked. But he didn't ask.
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May 20, 2018 15:54
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Neddy Seagoon posted:The scenes of him with his wife are cringingly disturbing to watch too, because you can clearly tell that every single word he says to her is a manipulation or lie. No, it's disturbing because he actually does love her and means what he says.
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May 20, 2018 15:58
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sassassin posted:He's pretty much unable to entertain having anyone of equal or greater strength as an ally. Making himself vulnerable is unthinkable, a successful revolution isn't a priority compared to his own sense of safety. This makes me think of all the comparisons to Griffith in Berserk again. Only now I suppose Gaelio is the Gutts analogue, not Mika or Akihiro.
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May 20, 2018 16:00
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sassassin posted:If only he hadn't spent his entire life either fighting for scraps in the gutter or being abused by authority figures, maybe he could have trusted some people. There's some pretty legitimate reasons for him to want a revolution even if he was able to trust other people and view them as comrades. Even if he was able to respond to Carta's feelings and truly trust Gaelio, he'd probably still want to burn the system down for personal revenge against Iznario and because it's blatantly clear that Gjallarhorn in its present day form at the start of the show is a corrupt, rotting farce. Rustal is just as much of a revolutionary as McGillis is, he's just far less naive in how he goes about it.
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May 20, 2018 16:07
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Kanos posted:Rustal is just as much of a revolutionary as McGillis is, he's just far less naive in how he goes about it. I haven't seen the second season, so I could be wildly wrong here, but my understanding of Rustal from the few clips I've bothered to watch and discussion of the show is that he changed the season because he saw that it'd be more personally profitable to do so and that the old system was crumbling anyway rather than because he had any personal desire to do so. That's not really a revolutionary so much as an opportunist.
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May 20, 2018 16:13
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Kanos posted:There's some pretty legitimate reasons for him to want a revolution even if he was able to trust other people and view them as comrades. Even if he was able to respond to Carta's feelings and truly trust Gaelio, he'd probably still want to burn the system down for personal revenge against Iznario and because it's blatantly clear that Gjallarhorn in its present day form at the start of the show is a corrupt, rotting farce. I don’t actually think that McGillis is in it for revenge. He’s in it for power. He doesn’t want to destroy his stepfather, he wants to become him. That would at least explain why the degree to which he ruins people’s lives is inversely proportional to the degree to which they have wronged him.
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May 20, 2018 16:13
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Darth Walrus posted:I don’t actually think that McGillis is in it for revenge. He’s in it for power. He doesn’t want to destroy his stepfather, he wants to become him. That would at least explain why the degree to which he ruins people’s lives is inversely proportional to the degree to which they have wronged him. No, his entire agenda is literally "gently caress you, Dad". He's living out his own special power fantasy that he got out of an old history book as a sexually-abused child.
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May 20, 2018 16:16
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tsob posted:I haven't seen the second season, so I could be wildly wrong here, but my understanding of Rustal from the few clips I've bothered to watch and discussion of the show is that he changed the season because he saw that it'd be more personally profitable to do so and that the old system was crumbling anyway rather than because he had any personal desire to do so. That's not really a revolutionary so much as an opportunist. No, he’s personally a reformist as well. He shows genuine affection for his lowborn subordinates like Julietta and Galan. He tends to subordinate his wants to the needs of the organisation, but part of why he loves Gjallarhorn is because it is flexible and adaptable.
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May 20, 2018 16:19
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Neddy Seagoon posted:No, his entire agenda is literally "gently caress you, Dad". He's living out his own special power fantasy that he got out of an old history book as a sexually-abused child. Rustal thought that was the sum total of his agenda, too, but quickly realised his mistake. McGillis needs to become so big and strong that no one can gently caress him ever again. Iznario Fareed is just one of many corrupt men in the world.
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May 20, 2018 16:22
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Darth Walrus posted:No, he’s personally a reformist as well. He shows genuine affection for his lowborn subordinates like Julietta and Galan. He tends to subordinate his wants to the needs of the organisation, but part of why he loves Gjallarhorn is because it is flexible and adaptable. Every reform he makes benefits him tremendously, and diminishes the power of his Seven Star rivals. He's an opportunist, and a reformist, and the hero we all deserve, but I don't think he values the institution more than himself.
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May 20, 2018 16:26
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tsob posted:I haven't seen the second season, so I could be wildly wrong here, but my understanding of Rustal from the few clips I've bothered to watch and discussion of the show is that he changed the season because he saw that it'd be more personally profitable to do so and that the old system was crumbling anyway rather than because he had any personal desire to do so. That's not really a revolutionary so much as an opportunist. I'll spoiler this in case you don't want to read talk about major plot stuff in S2. Rustal has a bunch of dialogue about how he recognizes that the times, they are a changing, and it's important that Gjallarhorn changes with them. He stages what amounts to a coup for effective control of Gjallarhorn, but because he waits until McGillis springs his hilariously naive grand master plan to do so, he's able to cloak himself in the cause of legitimacy and paint the fact that he's quite literally seizing power from a council of his peers as a necessary move to preserve the government in the face of chaos. When he smashes McGillis's rebellion and kills McGillis, he then opts to use Tekkadan as a scapegoat for the trouble and deliberately annihilates them as an organization in a very public manner so he can show the people that the chaos is now over. The important thing is what he does after this. He doesn't surrender the reins of power back to the Seven Stars, but he also doesn't become some kind of petty tyrant or restore the old system. He reforms the government to be more democratic in nature and actively invites previous revolutionary actors like Kudelia to be active, functional participants in crafting the future. She's not invited in as a puppet or a figurehead, he actively compromises with her on legislation to make the system less lovely. He does this because he recognizes that if the systemic problems that led to poo poo like McGillis and Tekkadan are not addressed, Gjallarhorn will be smashing rebels and street rats forever until finally a rebel or a street rat strong enough to succeed finally crawls out of the woodwork. This is honestly more of a revolutionary change than McGillis's plan, which basically boiled down to "I have no concrete plans except now I and my lunatic friends are in total control and also I gave Mars to a bunch of sociopathic child soldiers!"
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May 20, 2018 16:26
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Kanos posted:He does this because he recognizes that if the systemic problems that led to poo poo like McGillis and Tekkadan are not addressed, Gjallarhorn will be smashing rebels and street rats forever until finally a rebel or a street rat strong enough to succeed finally crawls out of the woodwork. The other part to this is that freeing Mars from the economic stranglehold of the newly-militarised Earth blocs significantly lessens their power relative to Gjallarhorn.
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May 20, 2018 16:36
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Kanos posted:I'll spoiler this in case you don't want to read talk about major plot stuff in S2. Mars won, Tekkadan didn't. The revolution served its purpose well, even if it required some pretty awful sacrifices.
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May 20, 2018 19:06
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https://criesinnewtype.wordpress.com/2018/05/13/tomino-yoshiyuki-40-years-of-gundam/amp/?__twitter_impression=truequote:Tomino: I decided to name the antagonist Char. Char is a pretty cool name, right? But why is it cool, you ask. You see, when Char arrives, he comes charging in. That’s as far as I went with Char’s creation. Then that dummy Yasuhiko took my charging antagonist and gave him a mask of all things. If the character underneath that mask wasn’t hiding some disfigured face, and instead had a significant personal backstory, he would probably have to take off his mask eventually. If let’s say, he had a family member nearby, and they happened to meet face-to-face, he would have to take off his mask. I’m telling the truth. If you notice, Sayla wasn’t created until we started drawing the storyboards. She was a character we pulled out of thin air.
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May 20, 2018 21:26
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That's a good interview.
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May 20, 2018 22:05
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EthanSteele posted:That's a good interview. Yeah. The cited bit may be the best part, though. "So I named the villain as a dumb pun and was done with the whole thing, but my rear end in a top hat character designer had to go and imply an interesting backstory with how he looked, so that made me have to give him one, and also I had to give him a sister, who would be one of the leads, and on and on and on."
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May 20, 2018 22:13
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quote:We would put his little sister on the allies side, and that would be even more reason for the protagonist side to have to deal with Char. The enemy having such a relationship with the protagonist allies was something I absolutely haven’t reproduced since. It’s such a stage drama kind of character. I thought, huh I guess I can write drama. Is he trying to be sarcastic here or something? Because Iron Mask being Cecily's father, and Cronicle Asher being Shakti's uncle is basically the same style of dramatic relationship.
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May 20, 2018 23:30
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quote:Tomino: I was furious when I saw the 4k version of Char’s Counterattack. The battle scenes dwarf everything else. People won’t understand what’s going on in the story. It becomes a bunch of giant robots and cheeky one-liners. I put a lot of effort into removing lines like “taking off!” and “I’ll finish you here!”, so I felt like I was going to die watching the new version.
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May 20, 2018 23:44
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Never show Tomino a Christopher Nolan movie.
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May 20, 2018 23:48
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tsob posted:Is he trying to be sarcastic here or something? Because Iron Mask being Cecily's father, and Cronicle Asher being Shakti's uncle is basically the same style of dramatic relationship. I would not be surprised if Tomino doesn't even remember anything about F91 or V.
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May 20, 2018 23:51
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Motto posted:https://criesinnewtype.wordpress.com/2018/05/13/tomino-yoshiyuki-40-years-of-gundam/amp/?__twitter_impression=true  I do love him outright stating that G-Reco wasn't expected to be easy to watch or comprehensible to most people. This paragraph is also hilariously petty to me: quote:Let’s say there were a 100 kids that watched it. I’m positive that at least two or three of them would see where we were aiming. Some people that watched the original Mobile Suit Gundam went on to become members of JAXA (Japan Aerospace eXploration Agency). These are men and women that launch rockets into space, and yet for the past twenty years, they’ve been taking in Gundam at face value! I’ll be honest — I hate that. I think it’s something specific to Gundam fans. They get caught up in the science and technology aspects — like rocket engineering or astronomy — but Gundam has other components to it. There is all the stuff after Newtypes. "My work inspired children so much that they joined the space exploration agency! Those stupid little shits missed the point."
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May 21, 2018 04:24
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I'm a Marxist-Tominoist.
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May 21, 2018 05:38
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That's kind of the man in a nutshell. Remember this is the dude who got up on stage at the anniversary celebration of Gundam, the thing he invented which has made him internationally famous and successful, and told his fans they were wasting their lives. Tomino is the ur-example of a crotchety old cuss. Let's all remember that Tomino said in an interview that the real reason the English release of Gundam is missing an episode (The Isle of Cucurux Doan) is apparently that cutting the episode from circulation was an act of petty spite at someone who raised Tomino's ire. Having him rail against kids who were inspired to go into rocketry and astrophysics is hilariously in character.
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May 21, 2018 06:25
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Getting into space faster means horrific space wars will happen sooner so I can totally get why he doesn't like it.
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May 21, 2018 06:27
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Omnicrom posted:That's kind of the man in a nutshell. Remember this is the dude who got up on stage at the anniversary celebration of Gundam, the thing he invented which has made him internationally famous and successful, and told his fans they were wasting their lives. At this point, we'd be almost disappointed if he wasn't like this. He was really angry at the return of Japanese Nationalism.
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May 21, 2018 06:54
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Tomino in a dark room with the other staff on CCA telling them to remove every "owari da" is a good image.tsob posted:Is he trying to be sarcastic here or something? Because Iron Mask being Cecily's father, and Cronicle Asher being Shakti's uncle is basically the same style of dramatic relationship. He could mean that he hasn't reproduced it successfully, like he's done it but not caught the lightning in the bottle again. Or he could be grumpy Tomino.
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May 21, 2018 16:06
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He's Yoko Taro without a sense of humor
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May 21, 2018 16:12
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Tae posted:He's Yoko Taro without a sense of humor Lies, Taro does everything with a straight face.
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May 21, 2018 17:15
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successful creatives go one or two ways, they either just soullessly sell out OR become bitter spiteful assholes who hate the good things they did with a passion(but will get mad if they're not making buckets of cash from it) SOMETIMES the coin lands on it's side and you get people like mark hamill who just loves being luke skywalker at all times, but that's rare
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May 22, 2018 06:02
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sassassin posted:If only he hadn't spent his entire life either fighting for scraps in the gutter or being abused by authority figures, maybe he could have trusted some people. he's a space libertarian, his only problem with the corrupt system is that he isn't the one leading it
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May 22, 2018 06:08
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