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Onmi posted:Saw this by the way as I was hunting for info, regarding the last LP and the mature reborn community response. Oh jeeze I hope they don't see my LP this way, I used my brain to win a game. The lack of electric immunities for the electric gym is like item #2888 on the list of issues with Reborn, #1 being that it's far too long for its own pace and the coherency of gameplay and story suffer for it, #2 is that Glitchcity is awful and every track he touches turns to poo poo.
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May 21, 2018 14:46
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Half expecting the Final Boss of reborn to have an Absolute Virtue on his team. (As a TL:DR to the uninitiated, basically some of the designers from FFXI would be right at home in the reborn crew and Absolute Virtue is the platonic ideal of what the reborn crew is trying to accomplish with this game)
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May 21, 2018 14:52
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Orange Fluffy Sheep posted:I used my brain to win a game. I thought you used your beaver.
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May 21, 2018 14:58
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I'm surprised you'd rate the glitchcity music above how terrible every npc we've seen so far is when you can edit the former out.
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May 21, 2018 15:00
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Uh oh. They are looking at the SA LP's. I wonder if they've already done anything in response to the previous thread? ChrisBTY posted:Half expecting the Final Boss of reborn to have an Absolute Virtue on his team. Isn't that just Wonderguard Spiritomb?
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May 21, 2018 15:01
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RyuHimora posted:Isn't that just Wonderguard Spiritomb? Eh, even that has holes - Burn/Poison/Toxic damage, weather damage, anyone with Mold Breaker...
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May 21, 2018 15:04
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Orange Fluffy Sheep posted:Oh jeeze I hope they don't see my LP this way, I used my brain to win a game. The lack of electric immunities for the electric gym is like item #2888 on the list of issues with Reborn, #1 being that it's far too long for its own pace and the coherency of gameplay and story suffer for it, #2 is that Glitchcity is awful and every track he touches turns to poo poo. Would it really loving matter how they look at your LP? They've pretty much got a "gently caress you, I'm smart and you're a whiny bitch if you can't play my game the way we play it" mentality to their pet project. So what should you care if you point out their horseshit? They're clearly going to ignore you and just carry on doing dumb poo poo because they won't be convinced they are wrong. On a side note, It's still stupid how every fangame wants to confuse challenge with horseshit. Yeah, it's one thing to challenge a player to think outside the box; but there's also straight up denying the player the tools for the job. You can't tell a player their only reward for suffering through your bullshit is the reward of a challenge well completed. After a while, especially if the answer to said challenge is "pound these hot iron nails through your testicles/teats and try until you do it like I did", any player with self-respect just walks away from being abused and does better things with their time. As Super Jay Man posted earlier, truly challenging games also give the incentive for players to play ball. 
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May 21, 2018 15:11
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RyuHimora posted:Uh oh. They are looking at the SA LP's. I wonder if they've already done anything in response to the previous thread? They really haven't. They aren't the Fire Emblem community, who took the FE Romhacking thread jovial mockery as "Huh... we're kinda introverts who don't really try to improve and we just accept mediocrity don't we." And lead to renaissance and effort to improve the tools, document more and while that doesn't stop lovely projects, good projects also happen now. Like, previously, Mud Sport was NOT learned before level 20, so how does the community respond? "Well why don't you just level it up to learn Mud Sport then level it down? Do some THINKING" Oh geez Mr. Wizard, maybe because it's a pain in the rear end and boring as poo poo? I also love the mockery of hacking in Rare Candies so we don't grind. As if the intended idea for Reborn is for you to sit your rear end down and in fact, slowly raise these pokemon for hours on end. I need to stress this, most RPGs have grinding as a fall back state for if you cannot 'smartly' get around their content through the intended level curve. Very few games require grinding. Do you know why? Because the worst thing you can have your player doing is not engaging and not progressing with your product. If they're sitting their rear end down in one area trying to raise a team because they've been stone walled... I remind you all... At the first gym So if every stone wall requires a new grind, And your player is constantly ceasing progress to grind so they can make a bit more progress till the next grind. Well buddy... we call that bad design.Because it shows that you haven't road mapped your game very well. Ah, the issue is of course we aren't engaging with the content the way we're MEANT to be engaging with it. We should be grinding our rear end off so we can truly appreciate Reborn. Ah of course, criticising the Darker Edgier, even worst paced bastard fan-sequel to this fan game. We're all "Loosers" here. Yeah this whole thread is this salty, pity it was only two pages. EDIT: poo poo I didn't see those spoilers Onmi fucked around with this message at 15:22 on May 21, 2018 |
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May 21, 2018 15:18
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Psst Onmi no spoilers, your screenshots have spoilers.
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May 21, 2018 15:20
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Holy poo poo they are the FF11 dev team. "Not playing how it was meant to be played", jesus loving christ.
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May 21, 2018 15:23
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It's Wonderguard Spiritomb if Spiritomb was Mega-Rayquaza and the reborn team took Burn/Poison/Confusion damage out of the game then threatened to ban anybody who used Skill Swap on it. Edit: drat it that doesn't (technically) work as Mega-Rayquaza has weaknesses. Ok hear me out, Spiritomb rebalanced to have Mega-Rayquaza's stat totals. ChrisBTY fucked around with this message at 02:49 on May 22, 2018 |
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May 21, 2018 15:38
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Onmi posted:They aren't the Fire Emblem community, who took the FE Romhacking thread jovial mockery as "Huh... we're kinda introverts who don't really try to improve and we just accept mediocrity don't we." And lead to renaissance and effort to improve the tools, document more and while that doesn't stop lovely projects, good projects also happen now.
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May 21, 2018 15:47
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ChrisBTY posted:It's Wonderguard Spiritomb if Spiritomb was Mega-Rayquaza and the reborn team took Burn/Poison/Confusion damage out of the game then threatened to ban anybody who used Skill Swap on it. Does Fire Fang still bypass Wonder Guard, for some reason, or did that get fixed after Gen 4? If it still works, then this weird nonsense glitch would probably be the Allowed Solution because it requires more intricate knowledge than any random would have.
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May 21, 2018 16:00
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I like how they can claim to be challenging the players to figure out solutions instead of going with the obvious overpowered options, and yet whenever someone actually does figure out a new strategy the devs immediately patch it out because it wasn't the 'right' strategy. Essentially if you're psychic and know exactly what they want you to do - and if the Dread God Arengee allows it - you can race through a very boring, very linear, railroady game checking off one box after another. If you're not psychic and/or lucky, you get to smash your head against an endless series of stone walls for hours on end until you either give up or stumble over the single remaining way to progress. Neither of these options requires any actual thought. Or enjoyment.
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May 21, 2018 16:07
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Dragonatrix posted:Does Fire Fang still bypass Wonder Guard, for some reason, or did that get fixed after Gen 4? If it still works, then this weird nonsense glitch would probably be the Allowed Solution because it requires more intricate knowledge than any random would have. Bulbapedia says it's only a Gen 4 bug.
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May 21, 2018 16:08
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PMush Perfect posted:Wait, this happened? Oh yeah. The hacking community as a whole had always kinda hated Serenes Forest, but it wasn't that long since the end of the Romhack thread that a lot of hackers left the site to form FEUniverse and set about doing things like 1. Improving the tools we use 2. Documenting things that we previously never had. 3. Actually developing stuff. Again, it's not a perfect community, but it's legitimately trying and a lot of that was spurned on by having the toppest of titles almost all ripped to shreds and each flaw exposed and pointed out. More importantly, it revealed the immaturity of the story telling on a wider scale. And for a lot of hackers, that was embarrassing. Namely because they didn't really have an excuse. And when you don't have an excuse, you have two options, go "You just don't get my vision, man." Or accept the flaws and try to improve them. It was a system shock to a very stagnant, hug box, introvert community that didn't help newbies, patted each other on the back and never innovated.
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May 21, 2018 16:18
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It reminds me a lot of old school point & click adventure games and other "lateral thinking" puzzles, where there are any number of possible solutions that the creators arbitrarily don't acknowledge or account for, so the challenge is not to figure out the most clever solution to a problem but to figure out which possible solution of many the creator had in mind.
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May 21, 2018 16:19
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Orange Fluffy Sheep posted:Oh jeeze I hope they don't see my LP this way, I used my brain to win a game. I wouldn't be surprised if they try to shove in some buggy, malware ridden DRM bullshit or just flat out ragequit the project because how dare you compromise their vision with the exact same tools they used to create it! <  >Nothing of value will be lost.
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May 21, 2018 16:28
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Onmi posted:Oh yeah. The hacking community as a whole had always kinda hated Serenes Forest, but it wasn't that long since the end of the Romhack thread that a lot of hackers left the site to form FEUniverse and set about doing things like And I...helped? Nah, I won't take full credit for this but I like to think that the Awful Emblem team's constant discovery of new bugs people had never seen before, coupled with our unfamiliarity with the tools, methods and community helped push the community to make changes. But it's hard to say for certain what truly led to people changing things. I will say that when Awful Emblem was just getting started there was a very "stranger in a strange land" vibe to interacting with the community and its tools. We were definitely outsiders trying to get accustomed to how FE hacking worked and stumbled across tons of bugs and undocumented things that hackers at the time mostly handwaved, ignored, worked around or knew the answers for but hadn't shared them publicly. FEditor, the only program that allowed for animation, text and portrait insertion, was the buggiest piece of poo poo program I've ever worked with, and was the direct cause of our hack's demise between 2016-2018 because it just would not work properly. We had a friend look through the source code for the tool and his only response was along the lines of "I don't think I'll ever be drunk enough to understand how this is built". But for the longest time the community just accepted its bugs and didn't strive towards improvement. Then, as Onmi says, the new tools and methods came along and now FE hacking is experiencing a sort of renaissance. It's way more accessible to newcomers, things are properly documented now (I just submitted some new documentation on chapter structure last night) and the discord server for it all is packed with people who are willing to help others in their projects. Some of the old guard of FE hacking are still there and while some have improved, others are a little more set in their old ways. But overall, the changes that have occurred over the last couple years have been nothing but beneficial. I have no clue what Pokemon hacking/fangaming is like, but I get the impression it's both super easy to do and super insular. Like, no central community for it, only a bunch of smaller splinter projects and the communities that form around them. That's probably the sort of structure that allows for projects like Reborn and Uranium and their fervid followers.
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May 21, 2018 17:02
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The one Fire Emblem hack I liked was Elibian Nights and I don’t even know if that was completed
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May 21, 2018 18:04
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God I hate Julia. This is good, though.
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May 21, 2018 18:38
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ChrisBTY posted:And for the record: I've played Reborn and I don't know how I won half the fights I won. Honestly, I'm similar. Tried it out years ago (think I had version 15?) and got to, I think, the 3rd-4th gym before putting it down and never getting around to going back. I definitely don't remember using Mud Sport during that first gym though. Or anything with Moody. Maybe I found a Ground-type somewhere. Obviously the Alolan pokemon hadn't been added, but no idea if there were any other things that would have been different.
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May 21, 2018 19:04
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Orange Fluffy Sheep posted:#2 is that Glitchcity is awful and every track he touches turns to poo poo. I think you're overselling this as a flaw. Glitchcity makes techno dance remixes, if people like it enough that they can survive on it then good for them. Falkone, RichaadEB, and LittleVMills do the same thing with heavy metal remixes, and insaneintherainmusic does jazz. I prefer the latter, but they also haven't had time to do every single Pokemon song that exists. That Song You Like in a Different Style seems to sell on YouTube.  Edit: And yeah, I could definitely see playing a fangame with Glitchcity's music being less than enjoyable. Pokemon music gets old after a while and the listening to the SWEET TECHNO DANCE REMIX version over and over and over (or starting one abruptly every screen or building transition) is almost certainly an irritating experience. Double Edit: I just don't necessarily see this as a problem with the music itself. It just serves to emphasize that the developers are making poor choices. PoptartsNinja fucked around with this message at 19:40 on May 21, 2018 |
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May 21, 2018 19:27
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Ohh yeaaaah RichaadEB and Insaneintherainmusic are the tits.
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May 21, 2018 19:44
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Tactless Ogre posted:Would it really loving matter how they look at your LP? They've pretty much got a "gently caress you, I'm smart and you're a whiny bitch if you can't play my game the way we play it" mentality to their pet project. So what should you care if you point out their horseshit? They're clearly going to ignore you and just carry on doing dumb poo poo because they won't be convinced they are wrong. Straight White Shark posted:It reminds me a lot of old school point & click adventure games and other "lateral thinking" puzzles, where there are any number of possible solutions that the creators arbitrarily don't acknowledge or account for, so the challenge is not to figure out the most clever solution to a problem but to figure out which possible solution of many the creator had in mind. I'm not sure how you'd do this in a pokemon game, but I have faith in the Reborn team.
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May 21, 2018 22:29
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Zereth posted:No, they might remove something that Orange Fluffy Sheep used to beat a gym/boss/whatever because it ruined the intended Unless they can remove OFS's ability to download cheat engine, I don't think there's much to worry about.
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May 21, 2018 22:31
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Onmi posted:Very few games require grinding. I did all my pokemon grinding back in the day on my Red cartridge because Bulbasaur was the coolest and he was going to win all the fights ever. And he did.  Zereth posted:Or worse, they acknowledge it, and then it turns out the alternate solution used up an item you need half the game later. That freakin' broom closet 
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May 21, 2018 22:37
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Zereth posted:Or worse, they acknowledge it, and then it turns out the alternate solution used up an item you need half the game later. I guess one way would be if some Pokemon you can only get with Poke Snax were holding replacement Poke Snax. So if you didn't get those first, you wouldn't be able to get all of them. EponymousMrYar posted:I did all my pokemon grinding back in the day on my Red cartridge because Bulbasaur was the coolest and he was going to win all the fights ever. And he did. In my first ever playthrough of Pokemon Red, my Venusaur was around Level 80 by the time I beat the Elite Four. My next strongest Pokemon was in the...30s maybe. This is also the game where I KOed Mewtwo and the Bird Trio for the exp, didn't get the Master Ball because my inventory was full, and ran something like Vine Whip / Razor Leaf / Solar Beam / Leech Seed. Sorites fucked around with this message at 22:42 on May 21, 2018 |
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May 21, 2018 22:38
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Sydin posted:Unless they can remove OFS's ability to download cheat engine, I don't think there's much to worry about. Well yes but it's more a matter of affecting future playthroughs for any other insane people who want to try it for themselves and aren't using Cheat Engine.
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May 21, 2018 22:44
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Honestly from what I've gathered if you're playing Reborn without cheating like a motherfucker you're already a hardcore masochist and would not be bothered by additional poor design decisions.
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May 21, 2018 22:50
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You make a convincing argument.
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May 21, 2018 22:53
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Sydin posted:Unless they can remove OFS's ability to download cheat engine, I don't think there's much to worry about. Hell, I can edit out the way I won myself. 
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May 21, 2018 23:21
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Out-Reborn Reborn. Can you make a gym leader so bullshit even you can't beat it?
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May 21, 2018 23:27
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Mega64 posted:Can you make a gym leader so bullshit even you can't beat it? The first Pokemon would be a Wonder Guard Dark/Poison type with an air balloon as its held item.
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May 21, 2018 23:30
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You fight the first gym leader in Prof. Self Insert's Lab right after picking your starter. They still have 6 pokemon. What, you thought this'd be some pokemon game for babies, you big baby?
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May 21, 2018 23:36
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PoptartsNinja posted:The first Pokemon would be a Wonder Guard Dark/Poison type with an air balloon as its held item. Don't forget to remove everything with Mold Breaker up to that point and then immediately give the player something with it after winning. It's the Reborn way!
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May 21, 2018 23:38
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Zanzibar Ham posted:You fight the first gym leader in Prof. Self Insert's Lab right after picking your starter. L2 Pidgey, L3 Rattata, L3 Zigzagoon, L3 poochyena, L5 opposite starter, L10 Gyarados
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May 21, 2018 23:39
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Epicmissingno posted:Don't forget to remove everything with Mold Breaker up to that point and then immediately give the player something with it after winning. It's the Reborn way! And nothing that can set Hail or Sandstorm, either.
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May 21, 2018 23:41
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There's no way that Bidoof was an intended solution to beating this gym. I expect a patch.
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May 21, 2018 23:47
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Tactless Ogre posted:L2 Pidgey, L3 Rattata, L3 Zigzagoon, L3 poochyena, L5 opposite starter, L10 Gyarados If you didn't A. evade every enemy attack and/or B. critical all your attacks so you won't end up Struggling to death anyway then you're just not hardcore enough!
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May 21, 2018 23:51
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