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Honestly, there's not really enough meat to a character in 5e that you really need digital help IMO, other than for spells. And there are numerous options for either printing those out or running a spell book app on your phone. If you want to keep things neat, just grab a form-fillable sheet or type junk into OrcPub or something. None of the free/3rd party versions of the builders have anything other than the basic rules, and the D&D Beyond pricing model is a joke.
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May 22, 2018 17:20
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I think what I missed is the sentence that specifies that you can't have more sorcery points than the number listed for your level on the Sorcerer chart. In that case, it's not quite so bad; I sort of doubt the adventuring day is going to last long enough that you'd burn through all of your sorc slots and take more than one short rest beyond that. Sacrificing a 4th- or 5th-level pact slot as a 3 sorcerer is a little wasteful, but I think that's an okay trade. I'd certainly be willing to allow that while keeping that in mind.
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May 22, 2018 17:39
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CeallaSo posted:I think what I missed is the sentence that specifies that you can't have more sorcery points than the number listed for your level on the Sorcerer chart. In that case, it's not quite so bad; I sort of doubt the adventuring day is going to last long enough that you'd burn through all of your sorc slots and take more than one short rest beyond that. Sacrificing a 4th- or 5th-level pact slot as a 3 sorcerer is a little wasteful, but I think that's an okay trade. I'd certainly be willing to allow that while keeping that in mind. I actually didn't notice that limitation either and it's a pretty significant one - I'd be somewhat tempted to ignore it even, lest my player go pick bard or wizard instead.
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May 22, 2018 17:43
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Mendrian posted:There's D&D Beyond which is the official-ish builder. For me its less the income thing and more being routinely burned by WotC digital products after using MTGO and the 4e online character builder, I just don't trust WotC digital. Jeffrey of YOSPOS posted:It's kind of heavyweight but there is MorePurpleMoreBetter's character sheet. By default it only contains SRD material because of a WotC cease and desist but there are scripts to -re-import the non-SRD stuff. This should be perfect....thanks a ton. ImpactVector posted:Honestly, there's not really enough meat to a character in 5e that you really need digital help IMO, other than for spells. And there are numerous options for either printing those out or running a spell book app on your phone. I don't know why, but building a character with pnp is just far less satisfying, to me, than building it in some builder app, excel based or otherwise. No clue why, it just feels more "real" to me in a way I can't really define.
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May 22, 2018 18:04
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Turns out one of our student placement guys in work plays D&D and was having trouble with spells, so he was advised "Splicer looks like the kind of nerd who plays D&D" (said by the kind of nerd with a hardback Warhammer short story collection on his desk) Long story short, forest gnome druid with 13 wis  e: I also got to explain the relationship between levels vs spell levels and ability scores vs ability score modifiers. I hate this loving game so much. How does it pack so much newbie trapping bullshit into one sheet. Splicer fucked around with this message at 18:13 on May 22, 2018 |
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May 22, 2018 18:09
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Splicer posted:Turns out one of our student placement guys in work plays D&D and was having trouble with spells, so he was advised "Splicer looks like the kind of nerd who plays D&D" Now I'm not some kind of 5e expert but that seems less than ideal
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May 22, 2018 18:12
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Blockhouse posted:Now I'm not some kind of 5e expert but that seems less than ideal I'm not mocking him. That's honestly sound logic. In a game not made by idiot men.
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May 22, 2018 18:16
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Splicer posted:e: I also got to explain the relationship between levels vs spell levels and ability scores vs ability score modifiers. I hate this loving game so much. How does it pack so much newbie trapping bullshit into one sheet. I never got this. Those are incredibly simple concepts with simple math. How are those traps?
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May 22, 2018 18:18
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Reik posted:I never got this. Those are incredibly simple concepts with simple math. How are those traps? "I'm level three so does that mean I get level three spells?"
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May 22, 2018 18:21
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Reik posted:I never got this. Those are incredibly simple concepts with simple math. How are those traps? The game does tell you some about what scores are useful for what classes IIRC, but it doesn't emphasize it or tell you a minimum you should shoot for. Ideally, the game would give you an automatic minimum value in the score you should care about, like Gamma World 7e.
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May 22, 2018 18:26
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Reik posted:I never got this. Those are incredibly simple concepts with simple math. How are those traps? Why is 11/11 worse than 10/12 in literally every possible way? At what level can you cast a level 2 spell?
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May 22, 2018 18:28
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the score you put the highest number in should automatically be used for your main abilities. hit people with CHA or cast spells with STR who cares
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May 22, 2018 18:28
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ImpactVector posted:Ability scores are a mess because the game gives you a choice to build a charismatic fighter or a buff hermit wizard but neither of those concepts work with the mechanics. It's a false choice because there's a correct answer (put the highest thing in what your class does, increase it until it's 20). It's not even that. A +2 to Strength and a +2 Strength modifier are two very different things.
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May 22, 2018 18:29
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gradenko_2000 posted:It's not even that. A +2 to Strength and a +2 Strength modifier are two very different things.
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May 22, 2018 18:32
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Splicer posted:Why does your sheet contain 6 numbers that do nothing except derive another 6 numbers that are used everywhere? How else are you going to track a benefit that shouldn't be a full +1 modifier but should get you closer towards one. For example, taking two feats that both give +1 Strength. If you take 1 point of ability damage with 11/11, your modifiers are still 0/0. If you take one point of ability damage with 10/12 your modifiers are now -1/0. It depends on how you are obtaining those spells. Are you an Arcane Trickster, or a Wizard? Have you multi-classed? Are you suggesting people get a new level of spells every time they level up regardless of how they obtain those spells? Cat Face Joe posted:"I'm level three so does that mean I get level three spells?" No, character level is not the same as spell level. ImpactVector posted:Ability scores are a mess because the game gives you a choice to build a charismatic fighter or a buff hermit wizard but neither of those concepts work with the mechanics. It's a false choice because there's a correct answer (put the highest thing in what your class does, increase it until it's 20). Taking away choice in an effort to idiot proof a system usually makes the system worse. Reik fucked around with this message at 19:22 on May 22, 2018 |
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May 22, 2018 19:16
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Splicer posted:Forest gnome and forest land druid both live in forests so they're clearly a good match! Oh I just meant the 13 wis I will never begrudge anyone playing a "bad" race/class combo because that's basically all I do.
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May 22, 2018 19:30
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Reik posted:No, character level is not the same as spell level. maybe they should change the terminology for one of them
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May 22, 2018 19:32
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Reik posted:No, character level is not the same as spell level. Thanks but did you read the poast I was responding to?
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May 22, 2018 19:35
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Reik posted:Taking away choice in an effort to idiot proof a system usually makes the system worse. loving wrong.
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May 22, 2018 19:36
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Reik posted:Taking away choice in an effort to idiot proof a system usually makes the system worse. A choice that isn’t actually a choice doesn’t benefit anybody
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May 22, 2018 19:38
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It is arguably useful to have derived stats like ability score mods derived from ability scores, or spell levels derived from character levels (if nothing else it enables finer distinction in terms of determining ability scores or of character advancement), but the newbie trap in there is that the terminology is mad confusing and none of it is going to change because The Grogs Would Revolt Again. Frankly I'm just happy that we've reduced the number of obtuse tables keyed to the six stats by folding so much of what they used to do into the score modifiers. I'm running a 5e game where half the players (and in fact myself: I've run 3e and 4e but not 5) are completely new to the system or have barely played D&D at all, and the ability score one in particular trips the newbies up all the time. Dallan Invictus fucked around with this message at 19:44 on May 22, 2018 |
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May 22, 2018 19:40
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Reik posted:Taking away choice in an effort to idiot proof a system usually makes the system worse. I also love where instead of presenting me with two options that are both viable, the game presents me with 10, 2 of which are viable.
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May 22, 2018 19:40
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D&D presents you with a myriad of choices, most of them wrong.
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May 22, 2018 19:53
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Elfgames posted:loving wrong. It sounds like we'll have to agree to disagree on this point? Serf posted:maybe they should change the terminology for one of them Why? The word "level" is appropriate in both cases, and it takes all of 10 seconds to explain. Andrast posted:A choice that isn’t actually a choice doesn’t benefit anybody That's true if you assume the choices that are being taken away are all false choices. I don't think that's the case when it comes to ability score distribution. Cat Face Joe posted:Thanks but did you read the poast I was responding to? Weren't you responding to my post? Glagha posted:I also love where instead of presenting me with two options that are both viable, the game presents me with 10, 2 of which are viable. D&D is a game of choice. What is viable in one gaming group may not be viable in another. Splicer posted:D&D presents you with a myriad of choices, most of them wrong. So does life.
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May 22, 2018 19:55
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Reik posted:Why? The word "level" is appropriate in both cases, and it takes all of 10 seconds to explain. i dunno, clarity? re-using the same terms to mean different things is usually bad writing and design Reik posted:So does life. the game is not life
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May 22, 2018 19:58
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see this just proves you should roll for scores and then roll which score goes to which stat and balance based on that
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May 22, 2018 19:59
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mastershakeman posted:see this just proves you should roll for scores and then roll which score goes to which stat and balance based on that
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May 22, 2018 20:03
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Yeah gently caress it dude, it's dnd, forget about game balance or sense and roll up 4-5 level 0 characters each with 3d6 down the line and see who lives.
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May 22, 2018 20:08
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Jeffrey of YOSPOS posted:Yeah gently caress it dude, it's dnd, forget about game balance or sense and roll up 4-5 level 0 characters each with 3d6 down the line and see who lives. what's wild is that this works beautifully for something like stars without number but would be a nightmare for d&d
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May 22, 2018 20:11
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Serf posted:i dunno, clarity? re-using the same terms to mean different things is usually bad writing and design That's like saying they shouldn't call them "hit rolls" and "damage rolls" because they both use the term "roll". We should call them "hit rolls" and "damage probabilistic determinations" for clarity.
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May 22, 2018 20:12
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Reik posted:That's like saying they shouldn't call them "hit rolls" and "damage rolls" because they both use the term "roll". We should call them "hit rolls" and "damage probabilistic determinations" for clarity. exactly, thank you
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May 22, 2018 20:14
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Serf posted:what's wild is that this works beautifully for something like stars without number but would be a nightmare for d&d
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May 22, 2018 20:14
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Reik posted:That's like saying they shouldn't call them "hit rolls" and "damage rolls" because they both use the term "roll". We should call them "hit rolls" and "damage probabilistic determinations" for clarity.
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May 22, 2018 20:15
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Reik posted:Taking away choice in an effort to idiot proof a system usually makes the system worse.
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May 22, 2018 20:15
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Reik posted:That's like saying they shouldn't call them "hit rolls" and "damage rolls" because they both use the term "roll". We should call them "hit rolls" and "damage probabilistic determinations" for clarity. I don't think it is exactly like that. I run a massive newbie game once a month and get 2-3 brand new people every time. Explaining spells is the most time consuming part and probably half my players don't grasp it the first time. "At what level do I get 3rd level spells" is tied for, "what is a spell slot" in terms of explaining poo poo. Just call them tiers. Or circles. I am glad you have never had this problem because it sure is annoying!
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May 22, 2018 20:15
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Jeffrey of YOSPOS posted:I think it'd work fine in basic dnd even, it's the later games that live in the unhappy medium where characters seem simplistic but are still a bear to create from nothing. to be fair i've never read basic d&d
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May 22, 2018 20:16
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Reik posted:That's like saying they shouldn't call them "hit rolls" and "damage rolls" because they both use the term "roll". We should call them "hit rolls" and "damage probabilistic determinations" for clarity.
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May 22, 2018 20:19
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Allowing someone to make a blatantly worse choice in their character does not become viable at any table. It doesn't matter if the game isn't geared toward optimized characters, making challenges and events in your game well balanced toward characters that are just objectively worse at doing things than other characters is only shifting the burden of actually balancing your drat game on the GM to fix your game for you. It also makes it so that any player who makes even the barest of optimal choices like "putting ability scores in the right place" just... better than other people in the group, which sucks for both the player who now feels like they're upstaging everyone, and the rest of the group, who is being upstaged.
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May 22, 2018 20:27
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Starting Tomb of Horrors next week, working on my character. Thinking Fighter 8 Paladin 6, and going Brute for the fighter archetype as a halfling with the Lucky and Resilient (Dex) feat for maximum saving throw nonsense.
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May 22, 2018 20:29
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make people who know how to optimize stats play martials, balance problem solved
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May 22, 2018 20:29
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