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mystes posted:Are you talking about the fork originally called "Python 2.8" which was an extremely misleading name? It's pretty reasonable to ask that they change the name if they are going to fork the language, IMO. yeah you're right I'm misremembering. and reading back up on it now the interaction between those two projects was fairly amicable. statement retracted. but it still does not excuse the other aspects of PSF's stewardship.
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May 22, 2018 19:18
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Angry about old p-langs
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May 22, 2018 19:29
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i'm 18 paragraph-length posts about The Breaking that doesn't bother w/ any details of the monkey wrench slipped into pythong 2
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May 22, 2018 19:41
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I lust for https://github.com/graalvm/graalpython so that one day we can kick guido to the curb
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May 22, 2018 19:47
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just hook those polymorphic inline caches straight into my veins
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May 22, 2018 19:48
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also, it me, google, creating python projects without py3 support in TYOOL 2018 like Beam
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May 22, 2018 19:48
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JawnV6 posted:i'm 18 paragraph-length posts about The Breaking that doesn't bother w/ any details of the monkey wrench slipped into pythong 2 the monkey wrench was not having a clean upgrade path
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May 22, 2018 19:49
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Malcolm XML posted:I lust for https://github.com/graalvm/graalpython so that one day we can kick guido to the curb im pessimistic about this if only because of all the other alternatives that have come and gone without much traction 
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May 22, 2018 20:28
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(sorry for all the quote replies, but I don't want to leave things hanging)Shinku ABOOKEN posted:how? are they a lego person? there's one specific external organ that many men have that can be reattached after being partially or fully severed. MALE SHOEGAZE posted:i’m sorry you had to go through this and i don’t think you have a moral responsibility to ruin yourself professionally, financially and maybe psychologically by pursuing a legal case that likely won’t achieve anything. Malcolm XML posted:agreed. but neither of us are a lawyer and in this case you should get legal advice. I have gotten legal advice before and all of it has been "this would be a long as hell road and you need to be prepared for that" and I'm loving not Malcolm XML posted:the monkey wrench was not having a clean upgrade path the upgrade path for the C API was a worse nightmare than the language changes in my opinion, but the old C API was real bad. Thermopyle posted:im pessimistic about this if only because of all the other alternatives that have come and gone without much traction im not expecting much from this just because its Oracle
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May 22, 2018 20:35
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quote:Hello Everyone, quote:__thread_specific_ptr intentionally leaks. See https://github.com/llvm-mirror/libcxx/blob/master/include/thread#L189 quote:If we observe in the leak case, thread key is not created and static storage destructor is not registered to atexit. Hence there is no key destructor(::__at_thread_exit()) called during exit and ALLOC1 & ALLOC2 are not freed which were freed properly in the working case. lol they're making a worse version of tizen
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May 22, 2018 21:39
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now that is an accomplishment
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May 22, 2018 21:49
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Sounds like it is working as intended, WONTFIX. I cannot believe Samsung made a single platform for phones, tablets, fridges, watches, TVs, and still push out junk phones every quarter or so and yet their TV platform for digital signage is running an AppleKit browser from 2012. There is Samsung.com for old Samsung TVs, Tizen.org for newer ones that replicates all the services but then has left to rot with broken OpenID and things, and then another site SamsungDForums.org for something that I cannot get permission to even read. G-Suite seems to discard all tizen.org emails by default which is cute. I have a Tizen TV and it you can confuse it by sending two cookies in one response. Pretty much nothing works on it. Samsung makes Ballmer's Microsoft look organised and friendly, how do they survive outside a Korean duopoly? MrMoo fucked around with this message at 22:12 on May 22, 2018 |
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May 22, 2018 22:09
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has anyone suggested not building the whole platform into a single ELF executable?
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May 22, 2018 22:24
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Sapozhnik posted:This but unironically. Nice meltdown
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May 22, 2018 22:32
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MrMoo posted:Samsung makes Ballmer's Microsoft look organised and friendly, how do they survive outside a Korean duopoly? brand recognition
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May 22, 2018 23:16
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if the phones don't work out, they can fall back on the credit card, amusement parks (multiple), fashion, chemical manufacturing, heavy industry, cameras, economics research, mechatronics, robots, heavy industrial engineering, ships, buildings, hotel chain, hospital chain, life insurance, general insurance, storage tech, sports teams, movies, biotech, home shopping, logistics, pharma, cosmetics, paper products, white goods, oil refining, machine tools, stockbroking, nuclear power plants....
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May 23, 2018 00:28
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rjmccall posted:lol they're making a worse version of tizen wait, why doesn't it call pthread_key_create the second time around? are they not clearing memory before the program runs, and somehow expecting programs to run twice in that environment?
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May 23, 2018 01:52
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it’s really unclear what exactly gets reset, but apparently it at least doesn’t include whatever resources go into a pthread key
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May 23, 2018 02:25
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Malcolm XML posted:your "everything is terrible" depression shtick is one thing but literally talking to an employment lawyer is always worth it. i mean that's fair, my old company settled at least four claims when i was there, but it wasn't free in terms of money or time
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May 23, 2018 02:29
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i mean it's one thing to have a lawsuit but y'know all it takes is one fired4truther to make an example out of you
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May 23, 2018 02:32
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also it isn't a schitck i'm pretty mentally ill and genuinely spend many of my waking hours ideating
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May 23, 2018 02:37
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Have you ideated yourself a job yet
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May 23, 2018 02:39
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DELETE CASCADE posted:Have you ideated yourself a job yet not cool
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May 23, 2018 03:14
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DELETE CASCADE posted:Have you ideated yourself a job yet Lol
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May 23, 2018 03:28
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Like, it seems the TizenRT guys could just fix this by resetting memory pages to 0 but they don't seem to be smart enough to think that far ahead. Why is Tizen still a thing
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May 23, 2018 04:00
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tef posted:also it isn't a schitck i'm pretty mentally ill and genuinely spend many of my waking hours ideating Stay safe.
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May 23, 2018 04:46
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Suspicious Dish posted:Like, it seems the TizenRT guys could just fix this by resetting memory pages to 0 but they don't seem to be smart enough to think that far ahead. Why is Tizen still a thing need a place to put the fuckwits from the credit card, amusement parks (multiple), fashion, chemical manufacturing, heavy industry, cameras, economics research, mechatronics, robots, heavy industrial engineering, ships, buildings, hotel chain, hospital chain, life insurance, general business insurance, fire insurance, marine insurance, hard disks, sports teams, movies, biotech, home shopping, logistics, an entire district of seoul, a different city 13 miles from seoul, pharma, cosmetics, public transit stuff, paper products, cars, white goods, oil refining, machine tools, stockbroking, nuclear power plants bob dobbs is dead fucked around with this message at 04:55 on May 23, 2018 |
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May 23, 2018 04:52
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they actually spun off the dried fish and noodles and sugar refining business that they started out with
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May 23, 2018 04:57
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tef posted:also it isn't a schitck i'm pretty mentally ill and genuinely spend many of my waking hours ideating yeah me too. stay safe tef it sucks. that said yes, suing your employer is a last ditch effort that often isn't worth it, but you really cannot go wrong with getting legal advice even if it's "this is a long and lovely road"
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May 23, 2018 05:38
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bob dobbs is dead posted:need a place to put the fuckwits from the credit card, amusement parks (multiple), fashion, chemical manufacturing, heavy industry, cameras, economics research, mechatronics, robots, heavy industrial engineering, ships, buildings, hotel chain, hospital chain, life insurance, general business insurance, fire insurance, marine insurance, hard disks, sports teams, movies, biotech, home shopping, logistics, an entire district of seoul, a different city 13 miles from seoul, pharma, cosmetics, public transit stuff, paper products, cars, white goods, oil refining, machine tools, stockbroking, nuclear power plants i'm trying to find the article but there was a great headline like "Samsung sells off boat manufacturing division to Samsung". all of the companies in the Samsung brand are legally separate entities and don't actually share finances and employees and poo poo like that, they just all happen to have the same family as CEO
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May 23, 2018 06:07
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Sapozhnik posted:Python 3 itself isn't so much a problem. It would have been fine if Python 3 was its own separate language, since it is not a superset of Python 2. guido is a twat, that’s a given. but what’s this sabotage you seem to be so mad about?
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May 23, 2018 09:57
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cinci zoo sniper posted:guido is a twat, that’s a given. but what’s this sabotage you seem to be so mad about? i mean, if they had just gone "here's python 3 the new language" and left it at that people would not everywhere clamor for migrations off of python 2 which are expensive and usually pointless. it is very unfortunate that they didn't recognize that their stewardship is a really minor part of the puzzle, leaving python 2 at "well, it is open source and widely deployed, so it will obviously not get abandoned in any real way". the only thing the python foundation can do (at eol in 2020) is keep distributing broken python 2 versions refusing to apply the patches, because patches are 100% guaranteed crop up the moment anything is found to be broken. it'd largely just force the creation of a shadow python 2 foundation the issue is, again, that the value of their piddling little implementation is tiny compared to all the software that depends on it, and it is just misunderstanding the relative positions to try to dictate anything. there are also notably a lot of software that 100% will never move off python 2: anything where it is integrated into a system sold to customers (the custom google cloud runtime implementation for example, or arcgis extensions), since no sensible company will break their customers often expensive stuff, nor are they likely to then add python 3 *in addition*, since it increases complexity and opens them up to guido getting ideas doing breaking changes again in the future
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May 23, 2018 10:43
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Cybernetic Vermin posted:i mean, if they had just gone "here's python 3 the new language" and left it at that people would not everywhere clamor for migrations off of python 2 which are expensive and usually pointless. it is very unfortunate that they didn't recognize that their stewardship is a really minor part of the puzzle, leaving python 2 at "well, it is open source and widely deployed, so it will obviously not get abandoned in any real way". the only thing the python foundation can do (at eol in 2020) is keep distributing broken python 2 versions refusing to apply the patches, because patches are 100% guaranteed crop up the moment anything is found to be broken. it'd largely just force the creation of a shadow python 2 foundation i dont necessarily agree that having nupython or whatever would be a tangible strategy, but i see the point. calling it a sabotage is a stretch though, they just deprecated it, not actively interfered with using it as is sure, sucks if you have complex commercial python thing, but that’s your problem if you were stupid enough to make something in it that cannot be rewritten to 3
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May 23, 2018 10:52
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i wouldn't call it sabotage either, just rather stupid and unfortunate. i do however disagree with the (rather common, granted) attitude embedded in "make something in it that cannot be rewritten to 3", software for the most part should not be expected to have to be rewritten at all, and especially not for any artificial "keeping up with the times" reasons, or even worse, for the sake of a subjective sense of cleanliness of extremely mundane underpinnings
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May 23, 2018 11:06
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Cybernetic Vermin posted:i wouldn't call it sabotage either, just rather stupid and unfortunate. i do however disagree with the (rather common, granted) attitude embedded in "make something in it that cannot be rewritten to 3", software for the most part should not be expected to have to be rewritten at all, and especially not for any artificial "keeping up with the times" reasons, or even worse, for the sake of a subjective sense of cleanliness of extremely mundane underpinnings alright, this i agree with, as thinking more i realise im way too young and inexperienced to have a well defined idea on how a language should proceed with a major upgrade
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May 23, 2018 11:08
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Python2 still exists. You won't get sued for using it after 2020, you will just no longer receive patches for it. I really don't see the problem  If your software is really so valuable, you should have no problems paying someone to keep your VM patched up, right? 
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May 23, 2018 11:16
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Xarn posted:Python2 still exists. You won't get sued for using it after 2020, you will just no longer receive patches for it. most python devs i know dont give a poo poo about security or performance, so i dont see the problem with using python 2 forever
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May 23, 2018 15:21
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Suspicious Dish posted:i'm trying to find the article but there was a great headline like "Samsung sells off boat manufacturing division to Samsung". all of the companies in the Samsung brand are legally separate entities and don't actually share finances and employees and poo poo like that, they just all happen to have the same family as CEO chaebol ownership structures would make ikea blush companies that own each other in a ring, holding companies that magnify family voting power without increasing their capital stake, non-arm's-length transactions, the whole kit and kaboodle i really do not understand why any outside investors even put money in
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May 23, 2018 15:34
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Notorious b.s.d. posted:chaebol ownership structures would make ikea blush you have to be either: 1. the korean govt 2. completely ok with having no say in running things ever the chaebols have had fuckups in their families before, they dealt with it in various ways, samsung has been fairly successful at dealing with their fuckups
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May 23, 2018 15:35
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Notorious b.s.d. posted:i really do not understand why any outside investors even put money in my half-assed guess: they want to invest in korean industry and there's essentially 0 way to do that without directly or indirectly investing in / betting on chaebol?
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May 23, 2018 15:37
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