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I like the fact that not only were Kharn The Needle Brained and Argel Tal The Cronenberg Commander friends, but also were the two most reasonable space marines on the traitor side.
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May 24, 2018 14:24
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Do any of the Heresy books go into detail on the Cleansing of Laeran? I was always intrigued by the fluff for that, ever since I first saw it mentioned in Index Astartes. Otherwise, my favorite bit of heresy fluff is from the Perpetual audiodrama where the crew is fleeing Calth and one of the perpetuals talks briefly about the Iron Men and what their weapons were like.
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May 24, 2018 14:28
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TheChirurgeon posted:Do any of the Heresy books go into detail on the Cleansing of Laeran? I was always intrigued by the fluff for that, ever since I first saw it mentioned in Index Astartes. Have you read Fulgrim? The first part of that book involves the cleansing of the Laeran and Fulgrim taking the blade of the Laer.
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May 24, 2018 14:34
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I read Horus Rising and False Gods years ago but never got much further with them. I recently acquired the entire series on epubs so now I can just whip out a chapter or two on my phone I'm gonna try and tackle them.
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May 24, 2018 14:37
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Biased due to my love for Blue Boiz, but Know No Fear and how it goes into the mindset of the Ultramarines just feels right.
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May 24, 2018 14:39
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The Rangdan Xenocides just make me think of Beef Rendang.
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May 24, 2018 14:39
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panascope posted:Have you read Fulgrim? The first part of that book involves the cleansing of the Laeran and Fulgrim taking the blade of the Laer. I haven't read Fulgrim, but I'm going to pick it up now. I've only recently gotten into the novels, having started with ADB's Black Legion books. I usually listen to the audiobooks while painting TheChirurgeon fucked around with this message at 15:07 on May 24, 2018 |
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May 24, 2018 14:44
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JcDent posted:My favorite bit of fluff is how the one BA in MoM outshines Custodes as a cool dude and shows that his legion is more healthy than ECs. I always thought of him as older too, but in hindsight I’m not sure the books ever said that? I think I just assumed because he was on the Mournival before Loken was.
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May 24, 2018 15:00
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TheChirurgeon posted:I usually listen to the audiobooks while reading. I am extremely confused by this.
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May 24, 2018 15:03
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Broken Record Talk posted:I am extremely confused by this. meant to say 'painting' but got distracted
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May 24, 2018 15:07
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TheChirurgeon posted:Otherwise, my favorite bit of heresy fluff is from the Perpetual audiodrama where the crew is fleeing Calth and one of the perpetuals talks briefly about the Iron Men and what their weapons were like. Which one is that? What do they say about em? My even-guiltier-than-normal-guilt-for-hams fluff pleasure is the novel Vengeful Spirit. There's a particularly awesome bit in it where a bunch of the Traitor Primarchs get ambushed by a bunch of Loyalist (Fire Raptor?) gunships. The Primarchs do some great poo poo like jumping on top of the gunships and smashing them with their big ol' maces.
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May 24, 2018 15:10
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Endman posted:Let’s talk fluff. I really, really like the whole idea behind the Cabal: a multi-species secret society of ancient, powerful xenos trying to tilt the balance of the Heresy in favor of Horus. They think a Chaos Imperium under Horus will burn itself out within a few generations as the surviving primarchs turn on each other, ultimately destroying both the human race and the Chaos Gods so thoroughly invested in feeding off the human psychic gestalt. Among other things, the Cabal was responsible for the Alpha Legion siding with Horus. Eldrad Ultharan, the chief space elf wizard himself, knows about all that and wants to try to tilt things back in the Imperium's favor, because letting humanity fall to Chaos seems insane and ultimately suicidal to him, but the rest of the Seer Council of Ulthwe wants to remain neutral and see how the Heresy plays out. With no greater resources than what he can carry on his back and the assistance of an Astartes recon marine who may be the very last Loyalist Word Bearer, Eldrad sets out through the Webway at the height of the Heresy to conduct a series of brutal, psychically-assisted assassinations targeting the leaders of the xenos cabal, to take their influence off the board. I'm an eldar player at heart, and I really like how they're depicted generally in the Heresy, especially the several visits Chaos-aligned characters make to the Crone Worlds, but the weird precognitive espionage thriller surrounding the Cabal may be my favorite little thread in the series. e: I know a lot of people aren't fans, but I also really like the Perpetuals. Ollianus Perrson's brief flashback to the quest for the Golden Fleece, on which he was part of Jason's crew at the end of Know No Fear tickled the classical historian in me to no end. 1994 Toyota Celica fucked around with this message at 15:20 on May 24, 2018 |
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May 24, 2018 15:15
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DrPop posted:Which one is that? What do they say about em? It's called "Perpetual" and it's not long, but in fleeing Calth, they basically come across a smashed city and a crater that goes all the way to the planet's core caused by some weapon and the perpetual talks about how it was probably destroyed by weapons in the war with the Iron Men. He mentions things like swarms of nanomachines that devoured everything, sun-killers, and some kind of machine the Iron Men had that could literally eat information and rend space completely. Like, not open warp tears, but eat space and the warp and rend reality itself. It was pretty rad Then they get ambushed by an Alpha Legion operative
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May 24, 2018 15:22
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zeal posted:I really, really like the whole idea behind the Cabal: a multi-species secret society of ancient, powerful xenos trying to tilt the balance of the Heresy in favor of Horus. They think a Chaos Imperium under Horus will burn itself out within a few generations as the surviving primarchs turn on each other, ultimately destroying both the human race and the Chaos Gods so thoroughly invested in feeding off the human psychic gestalt. Among other things, the Cabal was responsible for the Alpha Legion siding with Horus. This all sounds rad as hell. Where is this story told?
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May 24, 2018 15:23
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ineptmule posted:This all sounds rad as hell. Where is this story told?
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May 24, 2018 15:25
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ineptmule posted:This all sounds rad as hell. Where is this story told? The Cabal's seduction of the Alpha Legion is in Legion, book VII I think, and one of my 3 favorite novels GW's ever put out Eldrad Ultharan and Barthusa Narek, the last Loyalist Word Bearer, conducting wetworks against those fools, is in Old Earth, one of the more recent novels.
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May 24, 2018 15:26
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tallkidwithglasses posted:Luna Wolves own incredibly hard, so paint them Luna Wolves imo. Safety Factor posted:If you want to paint your guys as Luna Wolves, do it. You’re probably right, I’m probably reading too much into this. I’m a big ol’ real-world history nerd, and most of my wargaming is Historicals. I try to make my toys historically accurate, so that tendency is probably carrying into 30/40K. I suppose I should lighten up a bit on myself here. Endman posted:Let’s talk fluff. There is SO MUCH good fluff in the HH series. I barely know where to begin, and at the same time I don't want to just throw stuff out there for fear of spoiling the books for people… I recently read Scars, and I loved the part where the Alpha Legion shows up and tells the White Scars “holy poo poo, the Space Wolves just went traitor and attacked Prospero! Help us fight them!” (Is it just me, or should Alpha Legion always be behind a spoiler-block?)
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May 24, 2018 15:29
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Have fun reading Fulgrim, it's terrible
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May 24, 2018 15:33
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This seems like a good thread to ask, are there any good books on the Death Guard? I didn't really like Flight of the Eisenstein for not giving much sense of the proper legion and just following Garro, who was an outlier.
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May 24, 2018 15:33
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If you read nothing else in Old Earth, the bit towards the beginning where Eldrad and a squad of Dire Avengers mulch a bunch of Chaos cultists and their Word Bearer Dark Apostle deep in Traitor territory is extremely choice space elf action
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May 24, 2018 15:34
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long-rear end nips Diane posted:Have fun reading Fulgrim, it's terrible I like you but this is wrong as h*ck
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May 24, 2018 15:35
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ro5s posted:This seems like a good thread to ask, are there any good books on the Death Guard? I didn't really like Flight of the Eisenstein for not giving much sense of the proper legion and just following Garro, who was an outlier. Death Guard are sadly neglected in the HH novel series. Too bad, I like them and think they could make for some interesting stories. Edit: They've got the same "we get all the lovely jobs" vibe as the Iron Warriors, but instead of siege warfare they get stuck in NBC hell. Cessna fucked around with this message at 15:55 on May 24, 2018 |
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May 24, 2018 15:47
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Cessna posted:You’re probably right, I’m probably reading too much into this. I’m a big ol’ real-world history nerd, and most of my wargaming is Historicals. I try to make my toys historically accurate, so that tendency is probably carrying into 30/40K. I suppose I should lighten up a bit on myself here. I've kind of been through this with my 30k Dark Angels. I really like painting green and black armor is a huge pain in the rear end to get right. It's also kind of boring. I've stuck to the historically(?)-accurate scheme, but I've gone to an effort to liven it up with checkers, heraldry, etc. They take a while as a result, but I can work in green, red, bone, etc. as I like though the primary colors are still black and silver. There's plenty of leeway for that sort of thing since Dark Angels are/were space knights to a ridiculous degree.
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May 24, 2018 15:53
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ro5s posted:This seems like a good thread to ask, are there any good books on the Death Guard? I didn't really like Flight of the Eisenstein for not giving much sense of the proper legion and just following Garro, who was an outlier. Echoing what Cessna said, unfortunately there really isn't much. Morty and his stink boys get a little screentime in Vengeful Spirit, but not much. There are a few short stories that are okay. I found the one about some Death Guard left on a planet to attack a crashed ship to be pretty entertaining, but the Guard legionaries were pretty one-dimensional in that one. I really, really would like a longer novel depicting the DG from a Traitor perspective.
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May 24, 2018 16:02
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Cessna posted:You’re probably right, I’m probably reading too much into this. I’m a big ol’ real-world history nerd, and most of my wargaming is Historicals. I try to make my toys historically accurate, so that tendency is probably carrying into 30/40K. I suppose I should lighten up a bit on myself here. Strictly speaking Luna Wolves did fight in the Heresy proper. Gavriel Loken led the last stand of the Loyalist Luna Wolves in the Istvaan system, when the traitor legions purged themselves of their last loyalist elements in preparation for the Drop-Site Massacre. And it's sort of assumed that, as big as the Legions and the Heresy itself were, there were or could be splinters of every Legion who went with allegiances other than the rest of their brothers, though when this sort of thing is depicted it's almost always characters and units from Traitor Legions who stayed loyal rather than, say, traitor Ultramarine chapters. Point is, if you wanted to do Luna Wolves later in the Heresy than Istvaan you could always write them off as such and such legion cohort that was left in a rear area garrison because Horus didn't trust them to be down with the new paradigm, and survived the forces Horus would've almost certainly sent to quietly annihilate them either just before or just after he openly turned his coat. Running your army under that scheme you could even play Gavriel himself in his later role as one of Malcador's Knights Errant, commanding the last valiant squads of the very last Luna Wolves.
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May 24, 2018 16:05
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DrPop posted:Echoing what Cessna said, unfortunately there really isn't much. Morty and his stink boys get a little screentime in Vengeful Spirit, but not much. There are a few short stories that are okay. I found the one about some Death Guard left on a planet to attack a crashed ship to be pretty entertaining, but the Guard legionaries were pretty one-dimensional in that one. Cessna posted:Death Guard are sadly neglected in the HH novel series. Thanks for the answers, hopefully they'll get some attention eventually.
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May 24, 2018 16:06
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I'm just mad that ZM rules for vacuum can be used to represent fighting in chemwar, but since it's not mechanical, the DG get no bonus saves. Also, I wish there some nasty chem weapons in the arsenal, and not just rad/phosphex. Guess I gotta paint those chem flamers extra gnarly. On a similar note, if IW's shtick is "we get lovely jobs and we're angry about it," then IF are "we get the lovely jobs and we love it" while DG go "we get the lovely jobs because we're that tough." IHs are just assholes for no reason. God, I'd collect loyalist versions of all Legions, except for Super Traitors WBs. Why no Shadespire HH 
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May 24, 2018 16:48
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ro5s posted:Thanks for the answers, hopefully they'll get some attention eventually. JcDent posted:Also, I wish there some nasty chem weapons in the arsenal, and not just rad/phosphex. Guess I gotta paint those chem flamers extra gnarly. This is going to sound weird, but bear with me. When I was in the service every battalion had an NBC (Nuclear, Biological, Chemical) officer, usually a Warrant Officer. They were responsible for making sure the unit was up to speed on all of the possible chemical weapons stuff - the gear had to be in good shape, they had to hold classes and refresher training on things like gas mask use, and they'd run the "gas chamber" training sessions. Every one of them was just - odd. They were all as eccentric as they could get away with, and universally they had the weirdest sense of humor. I guess studying nuclear war and nerve gas all day long warps your brain a bit. I always wanted to see the Heresy-era Death Guard portrayed like them in the fluff. Not the gribbly tentacles and stomach-teeth of 40K, but a bunch of morbid-but-funny-in-a-very-warped-way wackos. ("Hey, Fred, you stepped in a puddle of blister agent, ha ha ha!") Edit: Like so: 
Cessna fucked around with this message at 17:19 on May 24, 2018 |
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May 24, 2018 16:53
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ro5s posted:This seems like a good thread to ask, are there any good books on the Death Guard? I didn't really like Flight of the Eisenstein for not giving much sense of the proper legion and just following Garro, who was an outlier. Vengeful Spirt and Scars both have done very cool Death Guard stuff, but it isn't the focus of the story. Scars is very good at showing why a Legion would join Horus (or not).
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May 24, 2018 17:08
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Cessna posted:I always wanted to see the Heresy-era Death Guard portrayed like them in the fluff. Not the gribbly tentacles and stomach-teeth of 40K, but a bunch of morbid-but-funny-in-a-very-warped-way wackos. ("Hey, Fred, you stepped in a puddle of blister agent, ha ha ha!") In Eisenstein, Mort is depicted as huffing toxins from pipe in his suit and sharing a chalice of poisons with Garro. Having them be some weird, but upbeat dudes like toxin Space Wolves would probably be interesting. Maybe I'll add that to my guys' fluff.
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May 24, 2018 17:57
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JcDent posted:weird, but upbeat dudes like toxin Space Wolves Yes, exactly! "Hey, Bill, smell this!" 
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May 24, 2018 18:03
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The best Horus Heresy fluff is when a bunch of Shattered Legionnaires show up on a renegade forge world dressed as Sons of Horus so they can steal some ordinatus. They get all the company markings wrong on their armor and vehicles, but the tech-priests are so isolated that they have no idea they're being duped until the fighting starts. Then a bunch of crates full of dead marines and destroyed vehicles come back to life and go on a zombie rampage, and apparently you have to read some lovely novella or listen to an awful audiodrama to learn what the hell that was about.
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May 24, 2018 18:14
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JcDent posted:In Eisenstein, Mort is depicted as huffing toxins from pipe in his suit and sharing a chalice of poisons with Garro. Happy, cheerful, warcrimes legion is a nice nod to the eventual fall to Nurgle.
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May 24, 2018 18:26
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tallkidwithglasses posted:Happy, cheerful, warcrimes legion is a nice nod to the eventual fall to Nurgle. We’re all gonna be Sloppity Bilepipers in the end.
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May 24, 2018 18:27
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It’s not really my favorite fluff bit, but this Sevetar quote is really neat: quote:Because the Wolves kill cleanly, and we do not. They also kill quickly, and we have never done that, either. They fight, they win, and they stalk back to their ships with their tails held high. If they were ever ordered to destroy another Legion, they would do it by hurling warrior against warrior, seeking to grind their enemies down with the admirable delusions of the 'noble savage'. If we were ever ordered to assault another Legion, we would virus bomb their recruitment worlds; slaughter their serfs and slaves; poison their gene-seed repositories and spend the next dozen decades watching them die slow, humiliating deaths. Night after night, raid after raid, we'd overwhelm stragglers from their fleets and bleach their skulls to hang from our armour, until none remained. But that isn't the quick execution the Emperor needs, is it? The Wolves go for the throat. We go for the eyes. Then the tongue. Then the hands. Then the feet. Then we skin the crippled remains, and offer it up as an example to any still bearing witness. The Wolves were warriors before they became soldiers. We were murderers first, last, and always!
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May 24, 2018 18:31
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Hixson posted:It’s not really my favorite fluff bit, but this Sevetar quote is really neat: but... but... backwards hands!
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May 24, 2018 18:35
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Hixson posted:It’s not really my favorite fluff bit, but this Sevetar quote is really neat: god drat that owns. Night Lords own they were my first army and I've never stopped loving them
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May 24, 2018 18:37
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Nightlords might have to be my fourth legion. I fuggin love those spooky murderboiz. 
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May 24, 2018 18:50
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Legion Tiers: S-tier: Dark Angels, Night Lords, Sons of Horus, Alpha Legion A-tier: 1k Sons, Death Guard, Iron Warriors, White Scars, Blood Angels B-tier: World Eaters, Space Wolves, Iron Hands C-tier: Imperial Fists, Salamanders, Raven Guard D-tier: Emperor's Children, Word Bearers Scrub tier: Ultramarines This is correct and final.
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May 24, 2018 18:53
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I'd move the 1ksons down a tier but you can't argue with science.
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