Animation Thread 2017: "These Movies don't cater to the 25-40 demographic"

The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > Cinema Discusso > Animation Thread 2017: "These Movies don't cater to the 25-40 demographic"

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Robindaybird: Aug 21, 2007; Neat. Sweet. Petite.

Pigbuster posted:

Learning that Lasseter stole basically the entirety of Cars was mind-boggling. I thought of that film for so long as Lasseter's love letter to small town Americana but that turned out to be a lie.

It was really startling, but it also explains why Cars 2 - and 3 was so different tonally (and not as good).

# ? May 24, 2018 01:27

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# ? Jun 4, 2024 02:11

SatansBestBuddy: Sep 26, 2010; by FactsAreUseless

Pigbuster posted:

Learning that Lasseter stole basically the entirety of Cars was mind-boggling. I thought of that film for so long as Lasseter's love letter to small town Americana but that turned out to be a lie.

wait he did what?

# ? May 24, 2018 01:28

mycot: Oct 23, 2014; "It's okay. There are other Terminators! Just give us this one!"; Hell Gem

Pigbuster posted:

Learning that Lasseter stole basically the entirety of Cars was mind-boggling. I thought of that film for so long as Lasseter's love letter to small town Americana but that turned out to be a lie.

I'm so confused why would you have to steal Cars.

# ? May 24, 2018 01:41

Pigbuster: Sep 12, 2010; Fun Shoe

SatansBestBuddy posted:

wait he did what?

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/features/he-who-not-be-named-can-john-lasseter-ever-return-disney-1105297

quote:

Inspired by a Disney short called Susie the Little Blue Coupe, Klubien pitched Lasseter on a movie featuring talking cars. Lasseter liked the idea and told him to start drawing to flesh it out. Klubien says he worked for three months on drawings of settings and characters that appear very similar to those in the finished film. Then he pitched the project to Lasseter again but got no immediate response.

He went to work on Monsters, Inc. and Toy Story 2. But then he heard that Lasseter wanted to move ahead on a cars movie. He checked in with Lasseter, who said he did want to go forward but with a different plot from the one Klubien had proposed. With that, Klubien and Ranft set to work on scripting and illustrating the main beats of the new story and, according to Klubien, created a version that had all the main elements of the finished movie. Klubien went with Lasseter as he pitched the project first to Jobs and then to a top team from Disney, including then-CEO Michael Eisner and Roy Disney. "John was great at pitching the story, mentioning me as one of the inspirations for him wanting to do this," Klubien remembers. After the meeting, Eisner wrote in an email: "This is totally original and wonderful."

Klubien believed Lasseter had promised he could co-direct the film. Instead Lasseter named himself as the sole director. Klubien was told his consolation prize would be a story and co-writing credit, shared with Ranft and Lasseter. But Klubien says that while Lasseter gave notes, he was not involved in the day-to-day writing of the script. In meetings on the project, Klubien says, Lasseter often seemed to echo things that he or Ranft had just said � but the person taking notes included only Lasseter's words, making it appear that Lasseter had originated thoughts he was merely repeating. Klubien adds that he had observed the same tactic during the making of A Bug's Life.

Finally, Lasseter shocked Klubien by taking him off the film altogether. Klubien remained at Pixar, developing other ideas, and says he came up with several, including one called The Spirit of New Orleans that he thinks eventually may have morphed into the 2009 Disney film The Princess and the Frog. In 2003, Klubien was fired from Pixar after 10 years at the company. He says he was told that no one wanted to work with him. After that, he says, he found it difficult to get hired elsewhere, a problem that he thought was compounded because he believed his credits did not reflect all of his work at Pixar.

In the end, Klubien says he got a $50,000 payment for the Cars idea. It did little to diminish his disappointment. "I didn't even get invited to the premiere or to Cars Land when it opened," he says, referring to the 12-acre attraction at Disney's California Adventure Park. "I went with my family to see Cars Land and they had a whole museum of how the film and the Cars Land ride was made. And not a sketch, not a mention of my name in it."

Klubien continues: "I was the creative spark behind this franchise. It's John's genius that he got it going, that he was the master of Pixar. And if he had allowed me to be part of it all, I would've been his biggest champion. But I find it to be an abusive thing that he got rid of me to claim sole inventorship." He says Lasseter used to advise people in plain language to learn to take credit. "The thing for me is, why can't you say what it really was?" Klubien says. "You're great enough in that role. What's wrong with that? I just don't get it."

When looking for this article, I found a different one from 2011 on the making of Cars that's interesting with this in mind:

quote:

�In Denmark there has never been car production because the country is too small,� said Jorgen. �Yet in the 1980s some enthusiastic folks got the idea of making a three-wheeled one-person car that ran on electricity. They put it into production and it worked great in the city, but out on the highway it was too slow. People also thought that (this) car was ugly.�

�I thought that the electric car was ahead of its time, and it struck me odd that my fellow Danes didn�t agree,� (Klubien continued. �What happened with this car) reminded me of The Ugly Duckling by Hans Christian Anderson. This famous Danish character wasn�t accepted at first, but in the end it proved to be right on the money.�

So � using The Ugly Duckling as his inspiration � Klubien mapped out a scenario for �The Yellow Car.� Which was supposed to have this uniquely American fairy tale that was set in this small town where there were no people. Where the only residents were cars.

Anyway, �The Yellow Car� �s story keyed off of what happened when a small foreign automobile suddenly rolled into town. Initially the small-minded local residents are suspicious and distrustful just because the Yellow Car has three wheels and looks different. But � over time � this new arrival eventually earns the respect and affection of these somewhat prejudiced locals. Which is why the Yellow Car then eventually becomes a cherished member of this automotive community.

Well, when John Lasseter reviewed Jorgen�s concept for �The Yellow Car,� he found a number of things that he liked. A story set in a world populated only by cars, for one. And Lasseter particularly loved a couple of the characters that Klubien had created for The Yellow Car to interact with. Chief among these was a hippie-like VW bus named Fillmore and an uptight, by-the-book Army Jeep called Sarge.

But as for �The Yellow Car� �s whimsical, fairy tale-like storyline, John just didn�t think it was strong enough to support an entire animated feature. The small town setting that Jorgen had initially dreamed up with was fine. But Lasseter just felt that � in order to create conflict � a bigger, stronger character needed to be dropped into this bucolic setting. Which is when Lightning McQueen entered the picture.

This article only lists Klubien as the creator of the original concept and credits Lasseter and Ranft for fleshing it out with McQueen and most of the plot, which seems to be what the official story was.

# ? May 24, 2018 01:48

Waffleman_: Jan 20, 2011; I don't wanna I don't wanna I don't wanna I don't wanna!!!

Ccs posted:

It's true that he doesn't have a genuine friendship with Lasseter.

" John Lasseter visits the studio and on camera talks about his admiration for Miyazaki's films. The two of them seem to have a warm, personal relationship as they talk to each other and move through the studio. When Miyazaki is alone, Sunada asks Miyazaki, "What do you like about Lasseter-san?" Miyazaki's response is "What do I like about him? That's not the kind of relationship we have with each other. I need Lasseter. He's necessary." The same man who can create the warmth of Totoro can be cold, calculating and inconsiderate."

mayersononanimation.blogspot.ca/2015/01/the-kingdom-of-dreams-and-madness.html

This is always the vibe I got. Just a "I need to keep a good relationship with Disney" thing.

# ? May 24, 2018 02:09

Ccs: Feb 25, 2011

Talking cars seems like such an obvious idea because personified cars are a staple of animation (Bob the Builder, etc.)

But I guess they needed specificity which is what those stories offered.

# ? May 24, 2018 02:44

Raserys: Aug 22, 2011; IT'S YA BOY

i remember a series of talking car toys from when i was a kid that had mouths and eye windshields just like the movie, and because of that i thought the movie was based on those toys

# ? May 24, 2018 02:56

Queen_Combat: Jan 15, 2011

And it was bad enough there was a move called the "Lasseter Maneuver" where women sat at attention with their hands on their knees and elbows touching their thighs to avoid him.

# ? May 24, 2018 03:02

Vandar: Sep 14, 2007; Isn't That Right, Chairman?

So I just found out about the new Scooby-Doo series.

quote:

The Mystery Inc. gang welcomes new members in the all-new series, Scooby-Doo and Guess Who?. From Warner Bros. Animation, Scooby-Doo and Guess Who? follows the grand tradition of Scooby-Doo team-ups and takes the idea to hilarious new heights.

Faced with some of their toughest mysteries yet, Fred, Daphne, Velma, Shaggy and Scooby-Doo will join forces with some of the biggest names in celebrity and pop culture including NBA superstar Chris Paul, recording artists Halsey and Sia, Ricky Gervais, Kenan Thompson, Bill Nye, Neil deGrasse Tyson, Mark Hamill, Steve Urkel (voiced by Jaleel White reprising his iconic role) Batman, Sherlock Holmes, The Flash, Wonder Woman and many more!

So, most of these I get. Most of these are popular modern characters and celebrities. Sure, makes sense for Scooby-Doo to crossover with them. And I'm looking forward to this, I really am. The New Scooby-Doo movies was a fun show, and most of Scooby-Doo's crossover things have been okay.

But who decided that in the year 2018, that Scooby-Doo needed to crossover with Steve Urkel of all people? :psyduck:

# ? May 24, 2018 03:13

Waffleman_: Jan 20, 2011; I don't wanna I don't wanna I don't wanna I don't wanna!!!

Please don't give Ricky Gervais work.

Also, I love that it's Mark Hamill and not any of the characters he's played.

# ? May 24, 2018 03:23

Robindaybird: Aug 21, 2007; Neat. Sweet. Petite.

I saw the character art for that new scooby doo, it all looks loving awful, and everyone looks like they have sideway knees.

# ? May 24, 2018 03:47

Waffleman_: Jan 20, 2011; I don't wanna I don't wanna I don't wanna I don't wanna!!!

https://twitter.com/CordlessJet/status/999072202422128641

# ? May 24, 2018 03:48

Owlofcreamcheese: May 22, 2005; Can't post for 9 years!; Buglord

Vandar posted:

But who decided that in the year 2018, that Scooby-Doo needed to crossover with Steve Urkel of all people?

Scooby doo has been being pretty ironic and meta for a while now, The whole WWE movie was entirely a joke based on making a movie with no jokes and playing it 100% straight like it was a movie that came out in the 70s. No one wants real scooby doo anymore, people want scooby doo where they realize hell is real of cross over into batman or make all the weed and lesbian jokes everyone has been making all along or other silly brady bunch movie style stuff.

# ? May 24, 2018 03:48

Vandar: Sep 14, 2007; Isn't That Right, Chairman?

Robindaybird posted:

I saw the character art for that new scooby doo, it all looks loving awful, and everyone looks like they have sideway knees.

Different series, that one has been running for a while now. As far as I can tell there's no art for this one yet.

Owlofcreamcheese posted:

Scooby doo has been being pretty ironic and meta for a while now, The whole WWE movie was entirely a joke based on making a movie with no jokes and playing it 100% straight like it was a movie that came out in the 70s. No one wants real scooby doo anymore, people want scooby doo where they realize hell is real of cross over into batman or make all the weed and lesbian jokes everyone has been making all along or other silly brady bunch movie style stuff.

I get that, but...

Jaleel White is just so out of place in that list of names that it baffles me.

# ? May 24, 2018 04:05

Owlofcreamcheese: May 22, 2005; Can't post for 9 years!; Buglord

Vandar posted:

I get that, but...

Jaleel White is just so out of place in that list of names that it baffles me.

I am absolutely sure that is the concept of having him

# ? May 24, 2018 04:07

Macaluso: Sep 23, 2005; I HATE THAT HEDGEHOG, BROTHER!

Waffleman_ posted:

https://twitter.com/CordlessJet/status/999072202422128641

So I've seen this passed around today, and they are clearly supposed to be years older. Maybe I'm remembering wrong but didn't the movie end in a way where it was a situation that needed to be addressed asap?

# ? May 24, 2018 05:43

wdarkk: Oct 26, 2007; Friends: Protected
World: Saved
Crablettes: Eaten

Macaluso posted:

So I've seen this passed around today, and they are clearly supposed to be years older. Maybe I'm remembering wrong but didn't the movie end in a way where it was a situation that needed to be addressed asap?

I thought it ended with the villain running off swearing he'll get them next time?

# ? May 24, 2018 05:56

Phylodox: Mar 30, 2006; College Slice

wdarkk posted:

I thought it ended with the villain running off swearing he'll get them next time?

It ended with the villain falling to his �death�, with no body to prove it.

# ? May 24, 2018 14:03

Renoistic: Jul 27, 2007; Everyone has a
guardian angel.

Macaluso posted:

So I've seen this passed around today, and they are clearly supposed to be years older. Maybe I'm remembering wrong but didn't the movie end in a way where it was a situation that needed to be addressed asap?

Not really, it just ended with the vikings preparing to face any future threat.

# ? May 24, 2018 16:12

Sinners Sandwich: Jan 4, 2012; Give me your friend's BURGERS and SANDWICHES, I'll put out the fire.

My sister thinks that they all aged so much that their dragons died and they made armor out of their bodies in remembrance.

# ? May 24, 2018 16:17

Renoistic: Jul 27, 2007; Everyone has a
guardian angel.

Stealth animated Monster Hunter movie?

# ? May 24, 2018 16:22

Clumsy Card House: Jan 6, 2008

Waffleman_ posted:

https://twitter.com/CordlessJet/status/999072202422128641

I love that they are brave enough to drastically age them up with each installment. It's really refreshing. I'm looking at you 13(14?) Land before Time sequels where everyone's perpetually 5 or whatever.

# ? May 24, 2018 17:38

Renoistic: Jul 27, 2007; Everyone has a
guardian angel.

The first movie ends with the main character loosing a leg. They aren't pulling any punches while still being enjoyable.

# ? May 24, 2018 17:48

Erotic Wakes: May 19, 2018; by Lowtax

Vandar posted:

So I just found out about the new Scooby-Doo series.

So, most of these I get. Most of these are popular modern characters and celebrities. Sure, makes sense for Scooby-Doo to crossover with them. And I'm looking forward to this, I really am. The New Scooby-Doo movies was a fun show, and most of Scooby-Doo's crossover things have been okay.

But who decided that in the year 2018, that Scooby-Doo needed to crossover with Steve Urkel of all people?

They're doing a pretty obvious riff on The New Scooby-Doo Movies and that cross-section of pop culture is pretty spot-on with the strata of celebrity that was on the original.

# ? May 25, 2018 00:27

Waffleman_: Jan 20, 2011; I don't wanna I don't wanna I don't wanna I don't wanna!!!

Also the Harlem Globetrotters, who managed to get at least two separate episodes.

# ? May 25, 2018 00:30

Erotic Wakes: May 19, 2018; by Lowtax

The last (only?) good Scooby-Doo series was the one that was an unironic version of Venture Bros so maybe an unironic version of Mike Tyson Mysteries will work too?

# ? May 25, 2018 00:36

Vandar: Sep 14, 2007; Isn't That Right, Chairman?

Yeah, I get that, but most (all?) of the celebrities on The New Scooby-Doo Movies were at least somewhat relevant and popular at the time.

There weren't any celebrities/characters on the show that were 20 years out of date, was there?

# ? May 25, 2018 00:37

Davethulhu: Aug 12, 2003; Morbid Hound

I like that Jonathan Winters is just a disembodied head.

# ? May 25, 2018 00:39

Ccs: Feb 25, 2011

Waffleman_ posted:

https://twitter.com/CordlessJet/status/999072202422128641

Really nice designs. HTTYD2 had a disappointing plot but the animation was just spectacular. They've gotten it to a level where some of the animators have mastered realism and body mechanics to an unbelievable extent. I've heard from people who worked at dreamworks that entire dailies would be filled with notes about modifying the tension on a character's neck to push the acting just a bit further.

# ? May 25, 2018 01:35

Robindaybird: Aug 21, 2007; Neat. Sweet. Petite.

Vandar posted:

Yeah, I get that, but most (all?) of the celebrities on The New Scooby-Doo Movies were at least somewhat relevant and popular at the time.

There weren't any celebrities/characters on the show that were 20 years out of date, was there?

There was Laurel and Hardy, they were well out of the business by then (Laurel died in the mid-50s, and Hardy in 60s)

# ? May 25, 2018 01:49

CaptainCrunch: Mar 19, 2006; droppin Hamiltons!

Pigbuster posted:

Learning that Lasseter stole basically the entirety of Cars was mind-boggling. I thought of that film for so long as Lasseter's love letter to small town Americana but that turned out to be a lie.

It�s been devastating to my to learn that this entire generation of animation giants turned out to be monstrous shitlords.

Ed Catmul is a key player in the animation/silicon valley wage fixing. And is utterly unrepentant about it.

gently caress all of them.

# ? May 25, 2018 01:58

Waffleman_: Jan 20, 2011; I don't wanna I don't wanna I don't wanna I don't wanna!!!

At least John K was always an rear end in a top hat so you never liked him as a person anyway.

# ? May 25, 2018 02:06

ThermoPhysical: Dec 26, 2007

CaptainCrunch posted:

Ed Catmul is a key player in the animation/silicon valley wage fixing. And is utterly unrepentant about it.

Wait what?

All I know about him is the cat kid in Zootopia who played all those instruments in the beginning is named after him as "Bobby Catmull".

# ? May 25, 2018 02:20

Timeless Appeal: May 28, 2006

Waffleman_ posted:

I honestly don't believe Miyazaki has been friends with anybody but Isao Takahata.

I honestly don't believe Miyazaki has been friends with anybody besides the concept of aviation.

# ? May 25, 2018 02:49

CaptainCrunch: Mar 19, 2006; droppin Hamiltons!

ThermoPhysical posted:

Wait what?

All I know about him is the cat kid in Zootopia who played all those instruments in the beginning is named after him as "Bobby Catmull".

This BS right here.
https://www.cartoonbrew.com/business/ed-catmull-on-wage-fixing-i-dont-apologize-for-this-105855.html

Dude is grade-A piece of poo poo material. Gets in on the ground floor of a new art form then pulls the ladder up after him.

# ? May 25, 2018 02:59

Waffleman_: Jan 20, 2011; I don't wanna I don't wanna I don't wanna I don't wanna!!!

Timeless Appeal posted:

I honestly don't believe Miyazaki has been friends with anybody besides the concept of aviation.

Nah, I saw photos of him at Takahata's funeral and there was actual emotion. He definitely cared for Takahata.

# ? May 25, 2018 03:27

Waffleman_: Jan 20, 2011; I don't wanna I don't wanna I don't wanna I don't wanna!!!

When the gently caress was there a Hotel Transylvania 3 coming out?

# ? May 28, 2018 03:50

Barudak: May 7, 2007

Waffleman_ posted:

When the gently caress was there a Hotel Transylvania 3 coming out?

Too soon

# ? May 28, 2018 04:14

paradoxGentleman: Dec 10, 2013; wheres the jester, I could do with some pointless nonsense right about now

I watched the first one and was pretty unimpressed. I miiight have watched the second one but it's just as likely that I saw clips on youtube. I don't remember.

# ? May 28, 2018 13:20

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# ? Jun 4, 2024 02:11

Snowglobe of Doom: Mar 30, 2012; sucks to be right

Waffleman_ posted:

When the gently caress was there a Hotel Transylvania 3 coming out?

There was a period for Sony where Men In Black had ended, they lost their James Bond licence, they hosed up Amazing Spider-Man and the 21 Jump Street well ran dry so Hotel Transylvania became their most successful remaining franchise via process of elimination. I'm surprised they haven't pumped out more.
http://www.boxofficemojo.com/studio/chart/?studio=sony.htm

# ? May 28, 2018 13:50

The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > Cinema Discusso > Animation Thread 2017: "These Movies don't cater to the 25-40 demographic"

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