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Jedi Knight Luigi posted:"If you actually cared, you would hate it like I do." That does follow from SMG's logic, but I wouldn't exactly call it high praise for the film.
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May 29, 2018 21:56
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Nor should it be. It was inoffensive which is about all I can ask for from Star Wars these days. World War One planet was cool and for all of five minutes we saw of it, was more interesting than the slow-speed car chase that was TLJ. Waffles Inc. posted:When I see Solo is your take that I should...turn my brain off? Yes, that is my "take"
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May 29, 2018 22:00
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Sir Kodiak posted:It is true that a movie could puncture the tension humorously rather than milk it for drama. But Solo didn't actually do that. There's no scene of Han weaseling his way out of trouble, or where Lando reveals that all their worrying was way over the top, or whatever. The question asked at the end of the card game—what happens when Lando comes to collect—simply never gets answered. Han doesn't need to get vaporized, but something should come of it, either exciting or funny or anything but just dropping it. This kind of gets at a core problem with the movie. I saw a few reviews say something to the effect of "Han is usually the most boring person in the room," and that's how the movie frames it. It's far more concerned with Qi'Ra's loyalties, Beckett's plans, or L3's shenanigans than with Han. The problem is that Han, as portrayed in the opening scene or the Kessel Run, is way more compelling than any of the main supporting characters. When he gets himself in trouble, the movie that is named after him just doesn't care how he gets out of it.
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May 29, 2018 22:15
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How are Lord and Miller hacks? They've been behind some huge, funny films.
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May 29, 2018 22:25
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In a movie actually about Han Solo, his relationship with Lando could be fertile ground for drama and conflict. As SMG says, it's based on an immediately antagonistic situation. They're competitors and Han ends up owing Lando money. How do they get from that point to where they're friends later on? An interesting question that again, the movie doesn't care about. I actually think the fact that Chewbacca only has a few lines of dialogue in the movie is a much bigger problem. Han's friendship with Chewbacca is his defining characteristic from the original trilogy, and it's simply ignored here. The movie is more about Han's relationship with Qi'Ra, who, either because of the Kasdans' script or Clarke's performance, is extremely boring, whereas Han/Chewbacca are a classic mismatched duo. Han's a schlubby loser while Chewbacca is a proud warrior. You could have gotten plenty out of that.
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May 29, 2018 22:28
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I think you guys might not be characterizing these people incorrectly. Chewie is now a proud honorable warrior? Han is a schlubby loser? I mean, he's grew up as a thief and a low life, but he's not goddamn Lonestar.
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May 29, 2018 22:39
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Han's totally a loser! He's got a garbage ship and he can't impress Luke, a sixteen year old child. He's not even a good smuggler! As for Chewie, he's proud because he can't stand losing and he's a warrior because he fights everyone all the time, uses a bow, and constantly wears his bandoliers. pospysyl fucked around with this message at 22:46 on May 29, 2018 |
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May 29, 2018 22:40
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Yeah, I was into Chewbacca as a crazed pit fighter and disappointed he stopped mattering as a character once he got a shower and looked like the traditional Chewie. The movie is all, here's how Han got the blaster, here's how Han got the Falcon, here's how Han got the dog-man. The ship gets more character development than the co-pilot.
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May 29, 2018 22:43
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I would like to see hairless Chewie. That would fill my nightmares.
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May 29, 2018 22:46
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Jedi Knight Luigi posted:It was inoffensive which is about all I can ask for from Star Wars these days. This cuts tight to the issue; it was never about the quality of the films. It was about feeling offended. As with Jurassic World, it’s pretty obvious that interpersonal conflict was on the chopping block here. None of the characters really strongly disagree on anything, even though the main narrative of the film is that Han gets dumped hard by his girlfriend. Nothing offensive happens. They just sit in rocking chairs and drink lemonade. Sir Kodiak posted:Yeah, I was into Chewbacca as a crazed pit fighter and disappointed he stopped mattering as a character once he got a shower and looked like the traditional Chewie. This scene was legit great, though.
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May 29, 2018 22:49
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pospysyl posted:Han's totally a loser! He's got a garbage ship and he can't impress Luke, a sixteen year old child. He's not even a good smuggler! Jabba says so himself, Han Solo is his best smuggler! And it might not look like much, but the Falcon has it where it counts.
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May 29, 2018 22:51
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AndyElusive posted:Jabba says so himself, Han Solo is his best smuggler! Just because he's Jabba's best doesn't mean he's any good; it just means that Jabba doesn't have any competent smugglers. The reason he's in debt to Jabba in the first place is because he lost all of that cargo. SuperMechagodzilla posted:This scene was legit great, though. That's another scene that was so abruptly cut that I'm sure it was longer in the Lord and Miller version. That suggests to me that their cut had a much bigger focus on Han and Chewie.
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May 29, 2018 22:57
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Vintersorg posted:How are Lord and Miller hacks? They've been behind some huge, funny films. Yeah, they’re like my top favorite working directors right now. I adore every film they’ve made.
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May 29, 2018 23:15
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:You are operating under a backwards logic where your response to the film determines its technical quality. The film is good as long as you don’t notice anything wrong. You are operating under a backwards logic where its technical quality is defined by your own subjective metrics. The film is bad as long as you notice at least 1 thing wrong with it. The problem with that logic is that, under it, you can decrease the quality of any film’s editing by simply being pedantic. The quality of any film decreases in direct relation to your pedantry.
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May 29, 2018 23:16
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Taking issue with SMG paying attention to the movie is, at least, forthright.
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May 29, 2018 23:21
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Arguing that criticism literally hurts the movie is an unexpected new low.
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May 29, 2018 23:29
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Waffles Inc. posted:When I see Solo is your take that I should...turn my brain off? i think the take is that you should cut out the middleman and not watch it AndyElusive posted:Jabba says so himself, Han Solo is his best smuggler! he said that.... to han... hes also like "hey buddy what would i do if everyone screws up as bad as you" which sort of implies the opposite
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May 29, 2018 23:30
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:Arguing that criticism literally hurts the movie is an unexpected new low. I'm arguing that your criticism of that other guy's logic works in both directions.
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May 29, 2018 23:34
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I movie just about how huge of a piece of poo poo Han Solo is until he does one good thing which is rescuing Chewie would have been great.
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May 29, 2018 23:39
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Hollismason posted:I movie just about how huge of a piece of poo poo Han Solo is until he does one good thing which is rescuing Chewie would have been great. Jabba the Hutt holding a roast of Han Solo while he's still frozen and hanging there. Just two hours of various aliens talking poo poo.
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May 29, 2018 23:43
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Whole film should have just been a buddy cop movie set at Christmas with Han and Chewy teaming up to solve an kidnapping.
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May 29, 2018 23:46
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I think it's less "turn your brain off" and more, "feel comfortable with using your own brain to fill in with a movies shortcomings". And this film had plenty, but despite them was fairly enjoyable. I don't think it was great, I think it was slightly above average, except how it looked (it just looked terrible) but I think an average film is a wonderful thing. Even a below average film I just love a collaborative effort to make something even if it fails. Something has to be pretty bad for me to hate it.
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May 29, 2018 23:46
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sure okay posted:I'm arguing that your criticism of that other guy's logic works in both directions. Not really, because you needed to add a bunch of stuff about how technical quality is subjective. You also claimed that it’s backwards to define quality by metrics, even though that’s what quality... is. That in itself is an example of how technical quality is not subjective. You did a hasty piecemeal edit of my original post and didn’t stop to ensure that the result would be coherent. The result is bad. Consider it an analogy.
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May 29, 2018 23:51
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A.I. Borgland Corp posted:and more, "feel comfortable with using your own brain to fill in with a movies shortcomings". But if you're just going to arrive at ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ then why even bother with that?
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May 29, 2018 23:52
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sure okay posted:I'm arguing that your criticism of that other guy's logic works in both directions. I have a forum name. I paid  for it just like you, okay.Hollismason posted:Whole film should have just been a buddy cop movie set at Christmas with Han and Chewy teaming up to solve an kidnapping. Or like, getting Chewie home for Wookiee Christmas.
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May 30, 2018 00:00
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sure okay posted:I'm arguing that your criticism of that other guy's logic works in both directions. Only if you consider not paying attention to be equivalent to paying attention when it comes to approaches to watching movies. You should not consider them equivalent.
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May 30, 2018 00:06
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pospysyl posted:This kind of gets at a core problem with the movie. I saw a few reviews say something to the effect of "Han is usually the most boring person in the room," and that's how the movie frames it. It's far more concerned with Qi'Ra's loyalties, Beckett's plans, or L3's shenanigans than with Han. The problem is that Han, as portrayed in the opening scene or the Kessel Run, is way more compelling than any of the main supporting characters. When he gets himself in trouble, the movie that is named after him just doesn't care how he gets out of it. I was talking with my dad about the movie (he hasn't seen it yet), and he actually brought this up in a way- Han's just not that deep a character, at least when we first see him. So doing a movie about him before we first meet him, there's not a lot for him to do, there's no arc for him.
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May 30, 2018 00:37
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A.I. Borgland Corp posted:I think an average film is a wonderful thing. Even a below average film I just love a collaborative effort to make something even if it fails. Something has to be pretty bad for me to hate it. I totally agree but generally the enjoyable average / bad films are some weirdo's passion project... Something an idiot poured a lot of love, insanity, ineptitude, whatever, into. They're entertaining because the creator or production itself becomes a character you learn about as you watch. But Solo is just the ultimate bland corporate product with all of the quirks of its creators systematically wiped away, which makes forgiving its sins a lot harder. Polo-Rican fucked around with this message at 00:51 on May 30, 2018 |
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May 30, 2018 00:47
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My favorite part of the movie was when the four armed alien gets shot and Han starts flying the ship and he’s literally just sort of hovering there, not really doing anything special and the alien dude goes “You’re a hell of a pilot kid!” based on his ability fly a ship in a straight line.
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May 30, 2018 00:49
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YOLOsubmarine posted:My favorite part of the movie was when the four armed alien gets shot and Han starts flying the ship and he’s literally just sort of hovering there, not really doing anything special and the alien dude goes “You’re a hell of a pilot kid!” based on his ability fly a ship in a straight line. That is consistent with what Han's idea of "knowing some maneuvers" is in ANH.
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May 30, 2018 01:03
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Polo-Rican posted:I totally agree but generally the enjoyable average / bad films are some weirdo's passion project... Something an idiot poured a lot of love, insanity, ineptitude, whatever, into. They're entertaining because the creator or production itself becomes a character you learn about as you watch. But Solo is just the ultimate bland corporate product with all of the quirks of its creators systematically wiped away, which makes forgiving its sins a lot harder. this is why the prequels are interesting watches that will stick in people's minds longer than solo despite their problems
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May 30, 2018 01:12
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Maxwell Lord posted:I was talking with my dad about the movie (he hasn't seen it yet), and he actually brought this up in a way- Han's just not that deep a character, at least when we first see him. So doing a movie about him before we first meet him, there's not a lot for him to do, there's no arc for him. One interesting part of his character that was completely ignored in this film was his disbelief in the force or Jedi during ANH. He was basically the Star Wars version of a holocaust denier. Was the Empire propaganda that good? A more interesting explanation would have been a young Han being let down by a force user. I guess this is my roundabout why of saying two things. 1. Stop making Star Wars films without Jedis in them. The Jedis don’t need to be the leads, but the force is a defining factor in the series. 2. Han, as portrayed by Harrison Ford, was a grumpy old man from birth. Just like the actor. The prequels get a lot of crap, but at least the characterization of Obi Wan was consistent throughout.
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May 30, 2018 01:18
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ghostwritingduck posted:One interesting part of his character that was completely ignored in this film was his disbelief in the force or Jedi during ANH. He was basically the Star Wars version of a holocaust denier. Was the Empire propaganda that good? A more interesting explanation would have been a young Han being let down by a force user. i don't think empire propaganda needed to be all that good to get the common man to be dismissive of the jedi, the prequels depict them as ivory tower elites who still think they're in touch with the universe that go on to lead a coup against a popular leader
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May 30, 2018 01:21
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one of the kotors has a rando guy refer to the big jedi vs sith war that happened in the backstory as 'the jedi civil war' and that's kind of a good way to interpret what it looks like to outsiders. they're all just space wizards fighting over their own dumb poo poo, no point in the average space civilian reading up on the finer details
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May 30, 2018 01:23
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It's weird that Chewbacca has a better character arc than Han has in this movie. He goes from being some "beast" to rescuing Cookies then going back to protect Han
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May 30, 2018 01:28
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Brother Entropy posted:this is why the prequels are interesting watches that will stick in people's minds longer than solo despite their problems Nah, they stick out because they were like 20 years after the OT and 15 years before they started making a Star Wars a year. None of them will stick anymore. They'll make a Star Wars a year till we're all dead.
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May 30, 2018 01:28
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I think we'll see a full reboot of the whole series if Disney gets Fox.
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May 30, 2018 02:37
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Hollismason posted:I think we'll see a full reboot of the whole series if Disney gets Fox. Maybe they will respond to the anti-SJW people and make the Empire the good guy. Anakin wants to destroy the Jedi by giving everyone equal access to blasters. Vader becomes stronger after becoming a cyborg because embracing technology is far superior to belief in ancient religions. He also chastises Luke the Antifa Alien Lives Matter Rebel for not pursuing a romance with Leia after finding out they're related since anti-incest laws is just the government trying to control people.
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May 30, 2018 03:17
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Brother Entropy posted:i don't think empire propaganda needed to be all that good to get the common man to be dismissive of the jedi, the prequels depict them as ivory tower elites who still think they're in touch with the universe that go on to lead a coup against a popular leader Yeah like the prequels do drive that home even in Phantom Menace too. As soon as you're a little out of the way of the core worlds and on Tatooine no one even gives a gently caress about who the big in charge government is, and even in A New Hope there's only any storm troopers even there because they're looking for the droids. Star Wars always had that going on though, the galaxy is so huge that there's effectively an infinite amount of societies and worlds that sure they might be in Republic or Imperial space or whatever but who's in charge has pretty much zero effect on their lives.
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May 30, 2018 03:23
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Plus even if you don't necessarily buy all the Empire says about the Jedi, if you don't see one your entire life you might just think "Okay, they were a bunch of guys who were good with their laser swords", not "they had access to mystic powers". You figure their exploits got exaggerated.
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May 30, 2018 05:17
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