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RareAcumen posted:Was Star Ocean even good during its time? I only hear people bring it up being disappointed in it, here. it was maybe neat when it was the only alternative to tales and it got a head start on 3d combat systems, but the combat never actually worked very well mechanically while tales evolved pretty steadily over its first few games
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May 30, 2018 06:55
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I liked 3 (even replayed it last year so it's not just rose colored glasses) but my tolerance for bullshit is through the roof so I know my opinion is not the prevailing one.
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May 30, 2018 06:56
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star ocean 1 is hilarious because it's dull fantasy bullshit for the first hour and then a star trek crew beams down and says "we're here to help" and then you watch space politics for thirty minutes and then the star trek captain says "well, we can fix this if we go through a space time portal but we can't bring any lasers or science" also the main character is named Roddick
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May 30, 2018 07:00
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That's no EDGE MAVERICK, though.
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May 30, 2018 07:02
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Everyone focuses on Edge Maverick but I've always thought Fayt Leingod was a way dumber name
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May 30, 2018 07:11
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The Colonel posted:it was maybe neat when it was the only alternative to tales and it got a head start on 3d combat systems, but the combat never actually worked very well mechanically while tales evolved pretty steadily over its first few games I like SO2's combat more than Tales of the Abyss's 
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May 30, 2018 07:27
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The White Dragon posted:don't make that noise i know you would play a game with hi-res pre-rendered science fiction backgrounds 
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May 30, 2018 10:03
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Make Suikoden great again
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May 30, 2018 10:16
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Sefal posted:Make Suikoden great again I'm really just astonished that no other game has managed to duplicate the success of that game's stronghold system. I'm not even sure what it is that sets it apart aside from the ginormous cast of characters of varying degrees of memorability. How was Ni No Kuni 2's attempt?
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May 30, 2018 10:24
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GrandpaPants posted:I'm really just astonished that no other game has managed to duplicate the success of that game's stronghold system. I'm not even sure what it is that sets it apart aside from the ginormous cast of characters of varying degrees of memorability. How was Ni No Kuni 2's attempt? I've not finished it but I got to the point where I could see all the remaining building options (unless something special happens at level 4?). It was a good impression at first; there's enough dialogue for each of your citizens that they have some unique character about them. There are quests that they can give you and they acknowledge other citizens (including in said quests) so it feels lively. The city itself though was a bit of a let down. And by level 3 your realise that you aren't going to see any more unique buildings, everything is just a slightly better version of the material generating or training halls you built previously. I can't fault it too much for that, it just dulled any enthusiasm I had for it. The citizens (with a few exceptions) are fairly interchangeable, which kind of leaves me wondering why they bother giving you the decision where to put them to work. There is overlap with some characters on where's best for them to work but I think it would have been better to have just had them go into fixed roles. Unassigning and reassigning people between buildings and projects isn't particularly well handled. Waiting for your kingdom money to generate and then be manually collected didn't feel fantastic either I just really liked how in suikoden they grew organically as the plot progressed and as you gathered more people, without having a separate management game alongside it. Exploring your newly expanded castle felt kind of exciting compared to running around your kingdom where you already knew exactly what was there. I do like how the buildings, city walls and your throne room change visually as you upgrade them. I had fun with NNK2s take on strongholds but suikoden is still the best imo.
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May 30, 2018 11:01
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RareAcumen posted:Was Star Ocean even good during its time? I only hear people bring it up being disappointed in it, here. Star Ocean 2 is a game I love to death, mostly because I picked it up for the first time when it was new and played it to pieces. It's got an endearing cast and the combat system is, uh, okay I guess, but the game is broken on numerous levels and it's really easy to pick the game apart if you know how. I'd say if someone new were to sit down and play it with no preconceptions they would regard it as a mediocre PSX JRPG. Star Ocean 3 is a fairly solid early 3D action RPG, back before even Tales had thrown its hat in that ring(for reference, SO3 was released 6 months before Tales of Symphonia, which was the first 3D Tales game). It had a terrible plot and a super bizarre and overwrought crafting system but the core gameplay was fun. I think if a new player played it now it would feel very dated and not super great, but at the time it came out it was pretty revolutionary.
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May 30, 2018 11:23
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GrandpaPants posted:I'm really just astonished that no other game has managed to duplicate the success of that game's stronghold system. I'm not even sure what it is that sets it apart aside from the ginormous cast of characters of varying degrees of memorability. How was Ni No Kuni 2's attempt? It's more like a mobile builder thing with timers, although all your citizens mostly being people with actual quests and stuff makes it somewhat better than that but it's still just busywork designed to pad out the game, which is NnK 2 in a nutshell unfortunately.
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May 30, 2018 11:30
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Cold steel 2 does the "recruit npc to gain shops and stuff" thing.
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May 30, 2018 11:32
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Kanos posted:Star Ocean 2 is a game I love to death, mostly because I picked it up for the first time when it was new and played it to pieces. It's got an endearing cast and the combat system is, uh, okay I guess, but the game is broken on numerous levels and it's really easy to pick the game apart if you know how. I'd say if someone new were to sit down and play it with no preconceptions they would regard it as a mediocre PSX JRPG. That's about how I'd describe Star Ocean 3 too. It was actually a pretty big release back in the day too, I remember there being entire rows of copies on the shelves at EB Games. Though I do think special mention still needs to be made of the fact the game openly wastes your time for the entire first disc while you wait for the Diplo to turn up. Tae posted:Cold steel 2 does the "recruit npc to gain shops and stuff" thing. It's not that new a concept. Skies of Arcadia does the same thing.
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May 30, 2018 11:34
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Neddy Seagoon posted:It's not that new a concept. Skies of Arcadia does the same thing. Even Fallout 4 does this! (In a minimally interesting way)
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May 30, 2018 11:40
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Lord Koth posted:As I just recalled the first ever Shining series game to be released in english is just over a month away, Shining in the Darkness and the Shining Force games were all in English. Do you mean the latest game in the Shining series? The Colonel posted:star ocean from birth was discount tales without the desire to do anything to set itself apart other than have a 3d combat system that also played worse So was SO4.
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May 30, 2018 13:37
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Evil Fluffy posted:Shining in the Darkness and the Shining Force games were all in English. Do you mean the latest game in the Shining series? I assume they mean the Shining Resonance rerelease since that's out in a month or 2. I'm curious about that one too though from the trailers it just looks like an even campier Tales game.
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May 30, 2018 14:52
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The Colonel posted:star ocean from birth was discount tales without the desire to do anything to set itself apart other than have a 3d combat system that also played worse But enough about Tales of Symphonia. Star Ocean 1 did have designs at greater scope and even some kind of immersion than Tales, with optional/branching characters, areas you could sneak into early, the entire skill/crafting system, and PAs before there were skits. In general it took shots at being more open than Tales of Phantasia. Granted, it was as janky as the next SNES RPG, but I give Tales credit for trying, so I should give Star Ocean credit for trying too.
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May 30, 2018 15:04
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crossposting because i'm exciteddmboogie posted:Spiderweb Software (Geneforge, Avernum, Avadon) just opened up a kickstarter for a new series!
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May 30, 2018 17:03
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May 30, 2018 17:26
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dmboogie posted:crossposting because i'm excited I can never get into these games but Jeff Vogel is super cool and it rules that he's just out there doing his thing.
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May 30, 2018 17:37
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Red Red Blue posted:Everyone focuses on Edge Maverick but I've always thought Fayt Leingod was a way dumber name it is a dumber name we focus on edge maverick because the name owns
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May 30, 2018 18:23
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dmboogie posted:crossposting because i'm excited It looks terrible. Jeff Vogel presents bad minecraft 
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May 30, 2018 18:28
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I started Earthbound on my SNES Classic. I've tried playing it in the past but for some reason the backgrounds in battle made me sick. They don't anymore and I don't know why. I played Mother 3 and loved it so I always wanted to play Earthbound. So far I'm pleased, but also kind of disappointed. That said, I like it. I really loved the intro. Again, I've never been able to get past the intro because the battle backgrounds made me feel weird, something Mother 3's didn't for some reason? I found it really charming. Finding the meteor, fighting the Starman and the talking bee, everything involving Pokey and his brother, only for Pokey's mom to kill the bee. I found myself laughing a lot as I played it. I'm disappointed that level of charm hasn't appeared again. I'm at Twoson, I think the name of the town is? So far I've only had two or maybe three problems with the game. As a DQ clone, given that sometimes you fight 4-5 enemies at once, I was surprised you don't have a weapon like the boomerang to clear out fodder. Instead you only have multi-hit Psi spell. I found it odd that the game took a lot from DQ without some of DQ's QoL features like the boomerang. Hitting enemies one by one when I'm fighting so many and with Ness alone can be...tedious. Maybe I'm still too early to complain about that but I've itching for my second party member, Paula, ASAP. Problem two is that on the way from Onett I got attacked by some mushrooms and received a mushroom on my head. I was fine with it working as a confused status in battle and having a cute/funny shroom on Ness' head, but when my controls started to change I instantly hated it. I tried to heal Ness with his healing spell, nothing worked, and there wasn't any item to buy to fix it either. In the end I had to trek all the way to the hospital for a cure in a new town I didn't know where the hospital even was, which was absolutely annoying. Im not sure why they thought changing the controls was a good idea but I hope to get a cure spell that can heal it soon because that status effect makes me want to die. I'm also shocked at the lack of story so far. It's very...barebones for a 1994/1995 late SNES RPG. It feels NES level in many ways, actually. Which coming from Mother 3 is pretty shocking how light it is. Other than those nitpicks I really like it. My main issues are just QoL stuff like a lack of boomerang like weapon which makes clearing fodder easier and the horrendous mushroom status effect. On the plus side, it's amazing how current the game feels in a lot of ways. From its encounter system to the fact that enemies below your level run away or even automatically end the battle if they're weak enough. These quality of life features make playing the game feel really good almost like the game is ahead of its time. I feel the encounter system for example to be much better than Chrono Trigger's. And that's without mentioning how utterly charming the rest of the game is. I mean, look at Frank and his peers.   The music can be excellent as well. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rss5DevAg94 Overall, I'm really liking it but don't find it as good/fun as Mother 3 yet especially in the story department. I'm hoping it picks up there once I get Paula. Jupiter Jazz fucked around with this message at 18:54 on May 30, 2018 |
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May 30, 2018 18:50
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The start of Earthbound(specifically the stretch from Franky to Paula) is the roughest and least fun part of the game, IMO, because the game doesn't really pull its punches despite you having a whopping one party member. It's not HARD, per se, but it necessitates a lot of grinding/backtracking.
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May 30, 2018 18:54
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corn in the bible posted:It looks terrible. Jeff Vogel presents bad minecraft idk where you're getting minecraft from man, it looks like... a spiderweb rpg but with basebuilding this time
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May 30, 2018 19:40
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dmboogie posted:crossposting because i'm excited This is gonna be the first videogame kickstarter I ever back because if Jeff Vogel can't deliver on his promises on time then I can't believe in anything.
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May 30, 2018 20:13
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Kanos posted:The start of Earthbound(specifically the stretch from Franky to Paula) is the roughest and least fun part of the game, IMO, because the game doesn't really pull its punches despite you having a whopping one party member. It's not HARD, per se, but it necessitates a lot of grinding/backtracking. I feel that they did that on purpose to really emphasize the message that friendship rocks and makes you really appreciate your party members. Don't you even return through that zone with both Jeff and Paula in tow or am I misremembering? I also wish I really liked the Spiderweb Software games more, since they seem like such labors of love. But goddamn if the mechanics aren't dull as dirt.
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May 30, 2018 20:17
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Srice posted:This is gonna be the first videogame kickstarter I ever back because if Jeff Vogel can't deliver on his promises on time then I can't believe in anything.  GrandpaPants posted:I also wish I really liked the Spiderweb Software games more, since they seem like such labors of love. But goddamn if the mechanics aren't dull as dirt. that's fair. geneforge is definitely his most interesting series from both a writing and mechanical perspective, but avernum and avadon scratch a very specific "go dungeoning and questing while listening to chill music or w/e in the background" itch for me even if they're not usually like, actively exciting
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May 30, 2018 20:30
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Avernum and Avadon aren't 'exciting', but they're engaging as hell, and one of the few times a video game has actually made me feel like I'm in a living world. Especially Avernum 3.
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May 30, 2018 20:34
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Morpheus posted:Avernum and Avadon aren't 'exciting', but they're engaging as hell, and one of the few times a video game has actually made me feel like I'm in a living world. Especially Avernum 3. you put it a lot better than I did! the writing isn't the centerpiece a lot of the time but like, even minor NPCs usually have enough depth to them to keep them from feeling like interchangeable questgiver #42069, which definitely helps with engagement
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May 30, 2018 20:40
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 Also, How is it that Lydie and Suelle didn't know Lucia was their cousin or that their dad was heir to Atelier Borthayre despite clearly having known each other growing up? Why would that be a secret?
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May 30, 2018 20:49
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Yeah, I don't even understand why I can be fully engaged with stuff like the Trails of series, which aren't that mechanically rigorous, but just bounce off of the Spiderweb games. I assume the answer is anime, but it is a truth that I am not ready to embrace.
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May 30, 2018 20:53
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GrandpaPants posted:Yeah, I don't even understand why I can be fully engaged with stuff like the Trails of series, which aren't that mechanically rigorous, but just bounce off of the Spiderweb games. I assume the answer is anime, but it is a truth that I am not ready to embrace. this post actually got me thinking and i think a big thing that makes it easier for me to get into jrpgs than wrpgs personally, especially older ones, is aesthetics. trails, even the sky games, generally have much nicer, softer and more easily readable aesthetics than some contemporary wrpgs, let alone something deliberately hearkening back to old isometric infinity engine games like geneforge mechanics and different approaches to writing are obvs another bigger thing, wrpgs are more immediately daunting not just in how you have to think about character building but in how much more monolithic their approach to character writing and dialog can feel relatively, but aesthetics are something i've kind of had on my mind but hadn't really thought too deeply about til now
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May 30, 2018 21:29
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Trails and, from what I see of the Spiderweb library, not remotely similar other than level ups rpg things.
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May 30, 2018 21:31
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GrandpaPants posted:Yeah, I don't even understand why I can be fully engaged with stuff like the Trails of series, which aren't that mechanically rigorous, but just bounce off of the Spiderweb games. I assume the answer is anime, but it is a truth that I am not ready to embrace. The Colonel posted:this post actually got me thinking and i think a big thing that makes it easier for me to get into jrpgs than wrpgs personally, especially older ones, is aesthetics. trails, even the sky games, generally have much nicer, softer and more easily readable aesthetics than some contemporary wrpgs, let alone something deliberately hearkening back to old isometric infinity engine games like geneforge yeah, and trails specifically is an intensely character-focused series while your hero/party in every spiderweb series except Avadon is just a bunch of ciphers - not that there aren't any interesting recurring characters, they just aren't the focus of the games
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May 30, 2018 21:36
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dmboogie posted:yeah, and trails specifically is an intensely character-focused series while your hero/party in every spiderweb series except Avadon is just a bunch of ciphers - not that there aren't any interesting recurring characters, they just aren't the focus of the games Maybe this is the crux of what I find appealing in RPGs, that I resonate more with characters, however stereotypical and tropey they may be, more than settings (although I guess I still prioritize mechanics over all). Even in something that's ostensibly more mechanically rigorous like Pillars or the old Infinity Engine games, I liked the characters palling around with me and their commentary on the adventures more than the adventure itself.
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May 30, 2018 21:45
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GrandpaPants posted:Yeah, I don't even understand why I can be fully engaged with stuff like the Trails of series, which aren't that mechanically rigorous, but just bounce off of the Spiderweb games. I assume the answer is anime, but it is a truth that I am not ready to embrace. Embrace your nepstiny.
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May 30, 2018 21:48
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GrandpaPants posted:Maybe this is the crux of what I find appealing in RPGs, that I resonate more with characters, however stereotypical and tropey they may be, more than settings (although I guess I still prioritize mechanics over all). Even in something that's ostensibly more mechanically rigorous like Pillars or the old Infinity Engine games, I liked the characters palling around with me and their commentary on the adventures more than the adventure itself. 
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May 30, 2018 21:49
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my favorite western rpg is fallout: new vegas and i think a lot of that is stuff like having a follower who the moment you step foot in the big bad guy's camp takes a moment to ask "ok what are we doing here" and your options range from trying to explain your reasoning, giving a reason that will obviously piss him off or saying "dude. we gonna fuckin kill this guy together"
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May 30, 2018 21:50
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