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japan, well known as family in korean affairs
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# ? May 30, 2018 16:30 |
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# ? Jun 6, 2024 16:51 |
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Koramei posted:japan, well known as family in korean affairs I want to remind you that this is 2018
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# ? May 30, 2018 16:41 |
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Vladimir Putin posted:I want to remind you that this is 2018 It’s 2018 and Koreans still loving hate Japan
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# ? May 30, 2018 17:06 |
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If anything Abe is probably over the moon with this, he's been trying to get rid of the SDF and have an actual armed forces again and Trump + NK are more than likely enough to get him his wish.
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# ? May 30, 2018 17:12 |
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A Typical Goon posted:It’s 2018 and Koreans still loving hate Japan
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# ? May 30, 2018 17:13 |
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Oh poo poo, I didn't realize China and the US were family now, I guess this changes a lot.
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# ? May 30, 2018 17:23 |
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Grapplejack posted:If anything Abe is probably over the moon with this, he's been trying to get rid of the SDF and have an actual armed forces again and Trump + NK are more than likely enough to get him his wish. Also, an actual deal between the US and North Korea that reduces tensions might make revising Article 9 of the constitution seem like less of a pressing issue, although there are still other factors like incursions by Chinese vessels and China's artificial islands in the South China Sea.
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# ? May 30, 2018 17:30 |
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mystes posted:This is just dumb. How is trying to resolve the abduction issue a "hard-line agenda"? quote:In July 2014, Pyongyang set up a panel to reopen an investigation in the abduction of Japanese nationals by North Korean agents, in exchange for Japan easing sanctions on the country. A move which drew rebukes from the victim's families. Just lol if you think Abe cares about abductions. He's just a hardliner using it as an excuse to derail talks. Also incredibly glib given he personally denies Japan's own mass abductions and sex slavery system in colonial Korea Red and Black fucked around with this message at 17:34 on May 30, 2018 |
# ? May 30, 2018 17:32 |
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Rent-A-Cop posted:It's 2018 and Japan and South Korea do $70+ billion of trade annually. No dude that's not the same. We all trade with lots of people we don't like.
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# ? May 30, 2018 17:37 |
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Chomskyan posted:A move which drew rebukes from the victim's families. Just lol if you think Abe cares about abductions. He's just a hardliner using it as an excuse to derail talks. Also incredibly glib given he personally denies Japan's own mass abductions and sex slavery system in colonial Korea
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# ? May 30, 2018 17:38 |
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Chomskyan posted:A move which drew rebukes from the victim's family's. Just lol if you think Abe cares about abductions. He's just a hardliner using it as an excuse to derail talks. Also incredibly glib given he personally denies Japan's own mass abductions and sex slavery system in colonial Korea Edit: quote:What the gently caress were the North Koreans doing for 2 years to "investigate" kidnappings that they did? mystes fucked around with this message at 17:44 on May 30, 2018 |
# ? May 30, 2018 17:39 |
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sexpig by night posted:No dude that's not the same. We all trade with lots of people we don't like. Do they have a military intelligence sharing pact though ?!?!?!?!? And I’m sorry but all this ‘blah hates blah’ is so tattle tale 3rd grade. Question is: are SK and JP strategic interests aligned? If so, why does NK want to separate them? NK hates JP isn’t a valid answer because unless you’re Donald Trump you don’t conduct foreign policy on personal animosities.
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# ? May 30, 2018 17:42 |
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Vladimir Putin posted:NK hates JP isn’t a valid answer because unless you’re Donald Trump you don’t conduct foreign policy on personal animosities. That said, yeah "The Korean race has always been at war with Even-Farther-East Asia!" is dumb.
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# ? May 30, 2018 18:01 |
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Frankly, North Korea could just as easily demand a full accounting of all their citizens who were abducted, tortured, raped, and murdered by Japan, prior to denuclearization, and it would be every bit as legitimate. But that is an issue entirely separate from peace talks and denuclearization, and would basically only serve to torpedo the talks, which is exactly the point Shorrock is making.
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# ? May 30, 2018 18:02 |
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Chomskyan posted:Frankly, North Korea could just as easily demand a full accounting of all their citizens who were abducted, tortured, raped, and murdered by Japan, prior to denuclearization, and it would be every bit as legitimate. quote:But that is an issue entirely separate from peace talks and denuclearization, and would basically only serve to torpedo the talks, which is exactly the point Shorrock is making.
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# ? May 30, 2018 18:26 |
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What evidence is there that there are Japanese abductees, alive, in North Korea right now?
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# ? May 30, 2018 18:30 |
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mystes posted:You're literally saying there's no difference between living Japanese citizens being captives in North Korea right now and people having been abducted or killed by Japan during World War II. There are more former comfort women still alive than there were ever Japanese abductees in total. They're both living issues; I don't want to take anything away from the abductions because they're obviously awful too, but the comfort women stuff is not "in the past" and it's half the issue that people are trying to frame it that way.
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# ? May 30, 2018 18:33 |
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Chomskyan posted:What evidence is there that there are Japanese abductees, alive, in North Korea right now?
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# ? May 30, 2018 18:49 |
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No, but I don't take highly politicized accusations made by right-wing ghouls at face value. At least not without evidence, as you seem to be conceding you are.
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# ? May 30, 2018 19:27 |
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Chomskyan posted:No, but I don't take highly politicized accusations made by right-wing ghouls at face value. At least not without evidence, as you seem to be conceding you are. If North Korea had claimed that the three US citizens it was holding as prisoners were dead would you say the same thing? That it was a "highly politicized accusation" that couldn't be accepted without proof that they were still alive even though obviously there would be no way the US could prove that? And that therefore the US shouldn't torpedo the talks by asking for evidence that they were dead? Edit: I shouldn't have responded to the comparison with the comfort women issue, because that's totally irrelevant anyway. The comfort women issue is obviously an issue, and if it turns out that all the abductees really are already dead then sure whatever the comfort women issue is a bigger issue if you want to have some sort of abductee numbers pissing contest. However, as long as it's possible that there are Japanese citizens who are still being held captive in North Korea, the Japanese government is obviously going to be in a hurry to try to resolve the situation. This isn't a statement that the abduction issue is the most important issue in the whole world, it's just a fact that it's a priority to the Japanese government, and Japan is supposed to be an ally of the US. mystes fucked around with this message at 19:47 on May 30, 2018 |
# ? May 30, 2018 19:39 |
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mystes posted:What evidence is there that they aren't? Hahah literally prove me wrong.
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# ? May 30, 2018 21:20 |
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Peven Stan posted:Hahah literally prove me wrong.
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# ? May 30, 2018 21:35 |
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Japan and US sanction don't mean diddly squat now that NK has made deal with China. SK talk is icing on the cake.
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# ? Jun 2, 2018 16:39 |
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no ring
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# ? Jun 2, 2018 18:27 |
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Bip Roberts posted:no ring
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# ? Jun 2, 2018 18:31 |
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whatever7 posted:Japan and US sanction don't mean diddly squat now that NK has made deal with China. SK talk is icing on the cake. That said, pulling SK closer into a more neutral position (they are sounding real dovish at the moment), would certainly be a pretty tremendous victory for China in particular and if anything was worth subsidizing North Korea on its for. Also, I don't think Japan pushing a hard-line position is really smart, everyone knows that there is already tension between SK and Japan and pushing a hard-line position is if anything only to push Seoul further away. Also, what is Abe's long-plan here besides relying on the US?
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# ? Jun 3, 2018 14:59 |
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Ardennes posted:That said, pulling SK closer into a more neutral position (they are sounding real dovish at the moment), would certainly be a pretty tremendous victory for China in particular and if anything was worth subsidizing North Korea on its for. Abe is extremely right wing regarding Korea and I really doubt has a deeper plan than 'rely on US to back him up' because he probably knows it's a safe bet.
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# ? Jun 3, 2018 15:46 |
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Ardennes posted:That said, pulling SK closer into a more neutral position (they are sounding real dovish at the moment), would certainly be a pretty tremendous victory for China in particular and if anything was worth subsidizing North Korea on its for. I would have to agree here. It still baffles me that SK would move in the opposite direction of a reunification
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# ? Jun 3, 2018 15:53 |
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Ardennes posted:Also, I don't think Japan pushing a hard-line position is really smart, everyone knows that there is already tension between SK and Japan and pushing a hard-line position is if anything only to push Seoul further away. Also, what is Abe's long-plan here besides relying on the US? quote:Despite Trump's pledge of no new sanctions, Japanese PM Abe says Saturday he will increase pressure on North Korea https://t.co/CTx7dhLrHk The Jiji Press wire service has a somewhat more fleshed out version that they posted half an hour later, and according to this version all Abe said was something like this: quote:The prime minister emphasized that "We must not condone North Korea's possession of Nuclear weapons. We have taken the stance that we can't allow there to be any loopholes and increased the pressure on North Korea, together with the international community." This is hardly an announcement that Japan is imposing new sanctions.
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# ? Jun 3, 2018 16:02 |
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sexpig by night posted:Abe is extremely right wing regarding Korea and I really doubt has a deeper plan than 'rely on US to back him up' because he probably knows it's a safe bet. It may be a traditional bet, but one that very well may not be that smart in the long-run especially as the US comes more distracted. mystes posted:I assume by "hard-line position" you're referring to the tweet Chomskyan quoted? Personally, I think Japan trying to throw water on the peace-process from the get-go is a pretty hard-line position, especially considering how delicate the SK-Japan relationship is. I honestly don't think the kidnappings are enough to be a serious objection to the talks.
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# ? Jun 3, 2018 16:41 |
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The two poles in the region are China-NK and US-JP. SK has always been on the US-JP side. JP pulling a hard line is because they don’t want China to get stronger with a China-NK-SK alliance
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# ? Jun 3, 2018 16:54 |
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Vladimir Putin posted:The two poles in the region are China-NK and US-JP. SK has always been on the US-JP side. JP pulling a hard line is because they don’t want China to get stronger with a China-NK-SK alliance By possibly alienating SK or giving NK ammunition there are endangering that alignment by creating a backlash. If anything they should be the "good cop" to the US' "bad cop."
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# ? Jun 3, 2018 17:03 |
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Ardennes posted:Personally, I think Japan trying to throw water on the peace-process from the get-go is a pretty hard-line position, especially considering how delicate the SK-Japan relationship is. I honestly don't think the kidnappings are enough to be a serious objection to the talks.
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# ? Jun 3, 2018 17:32 |
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mystes posted:What do you mean an "objection to the talks"? If anything, Japan has expressed a vague desire to attempt to make progress on the kidnapping issue through the talks. I don't think anyone has said that resolving the issue is a precondition for the talks to take place. And seriously, when Trump literally cancelled the talks for no reason previously, I don't think Japan expressing the desire to address this issue is something on the level of "throwing water on the peace process". Also "no loopholes" and "increase pressure" sounds like signaling that Tokyo sounds like it may want to derail them, let's be honest it sounds pretty negative. My point being if NK holds its usual line, it honestly shouldn't be a barrier to the talks since it is honestly a pretty cold issueAs for the abductees, no one knows if they are alive or not and to be honest, some of them almost certainly have died age/disease even if they weren't intentionally killed. (It is very possible especially considering the state of North Korea from the late 1980s to the 2000s.) The youngest on one was born in 1960 and the rest of them would be in their 60s/70s/80s even 90s. As for remains, that is a separate issue.
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# ? Jun 3, 2018 20:37 |
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Trump still hates Japan so I very heavily doubt that they'll have any actual effect on the talks, good or bad.
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# ? Jun 3, 2018 20:49 |
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Ardennes posted:Also "no loopholes" and "increase pressure" sounds like signaling that Tokyo sounds like it may want to derail them, let's be honest it sounds pretty negative. https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2018/06/03/national/politics-diplomacy/japan-finds-crossroads-pressure-policy-toward-north-korea/ quote:Prime Minister Shinzo Abe has reiterated in recent years, back when North Korea was still ratcheting up tensions, that maintaining “pressure” on Pyongyang is vital to compel it to discard its nuclear weapons and ballistic missiles. As long as Trump doesn't go back to talking about "maximum pressure" it is likely that the Japanese government will adjust their talking points to Trump's new position, since they don't really have any choice. mystes fucked around with this message at 21:45 on Jun 3, 2018 |
# ? Jun 3, 2018 21:42 |
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# ? Jun 6, 2024 16:51 |
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https://twitter.com/TimothyS/status/1003633349943062528 https://twitter.com/YonhapNews/status/1003544688899416064 https://twitter.com/NoonInKorea/status/1003448248038842369 https://twitter.com/Thoton/status/1003617347595165698 ^lmao https://twitter.com/themainichi/status/1003679044641189888 https://twitter.com/YonhapNews/status/1003710421478531072 Red and Black fucked around with this message at 20:17 on Jun 4, 2018 |
# ? Jun 4, 2018 15:33 |