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HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:Emboldening? That's quite a claim.  SciFiDownBeat posted:Authorial intent was what I was trying to figure out in the first place. Thanks for posting that; I'll take Zach Snyder at his word and not assume he said that just to save face after the fact. It's true, even before 300 came out Snyder would describe of Leonidas as (paraphrasing) "a man driven by and ruling with ideals I'd hope no one attempts to take seriously today" and such so it wasn't like a damage control thing.
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May 31, 2018 15:37
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Wheat Loaf posted:I don't think 300 made much of an impact on me. I guess it was okay, but I don't remember a lot of it other than the big fat guy with hooves and these weird bone swords for hands. That guy looked like a Hellraiser monster. They were down for the squid but the reason they didn't do it was because to sell it would require another 30-40 minutes of screentime
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May 31, 2018 15:38
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A good satire is always several steps ahead. Liberals like to skip over the part in Starship Troopers where Rico’s ineffectual patents are just chilling in a mansion, saying ‘war is yucky, come with us on vacation’. Then they get squished and held up as an example of the freedoms our troops are dying to defend.
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May 31, 2018 15:49
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SciFiDownBeat posted:That said, I can't concede that Snyder executed his vision with much success. I mean 300 is a very entertaining movie but I wouldn't mention it in the same breath as any Verhoeven film re: effectiveness of satire. That's just my opinion though. What kind of surprises me about the discussion is that Starship Troopers has become an example of plainly obvious satire by Thinking Man Verhoeven, as a point of contrast to 300 and Snyder. Time Magazine has a pay wall, but I really wish I could post Richard Schickel's review of the film.
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May 31, 2018 15:54
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SciFiDownBeat posted:That said, I can't concede that Snyder executed his vision with much success. I mean 300 is a very entertaining movie but I wouldn't mention it in the same breath as any Verhoeven film re: effectiveness of satire. That's just my opinion though. The problem is that there is no intrinsic "effectiveness of satire." Ideology doesn't work like that. Nobody's mind is changed by a film, you have to consciously engage with the film and be truthful in your own political positions. With 300, what we see is persistent misdirections from this, instead attributing the fact that America is full of fascists to a particular failing of the film. Meanwhile, we get vague claims that Verhoeven's movies are 'more effective,' or that Pain & Gain is actually deconstructive and critically misunderstood, but no substantiation of how and why. Suddenly, dominant ideology doesn't matter as long as it's a film one likes. Structurally speaking, none of these films are actually 'effective,' at all. And not because people get 'the wrong message' - it's because nobody actually gives a poo poo about movies. Because they're just movies. They do not intrinsically or automatically impart 'messages' that transform peoples' consciousness and reconstitute their governance of their lives. You have to desire to engage with the film first, whereas the film itself can only act as a symbolic reflection of what already exists within the schema of the collective imaginary. When folks fail to realize that this is what's going on, we get into really weird situations, like where the satiric point of RoboCop is about how... Murphy heroically reclaims his identity by getting revenge but then just keeps working for the evil corporation? Wait a minute... that's not satire at all! That's a reactionary reading of RoboCop!
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May 31, 2018 16:01
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Schwarzwald posted:What kind of surprises me about the discussion is that Starship Troopers has become an example of plainly obvious satire by Thinking Man Verhoeven, as a point of contrast to 300 and Snyder. Yeah I feel like a lot of people are forgetting that when Starship Troopers came out a lot of people missed that it was a satire. Ebert said it was a sly satire at best, which I feel is still underselling how much of a satire it is.
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May 31, 2018 16:01
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K. Waste posted:When folks fail to realize that this is what's going on, we get into really weird situations, like where the satiric point of RoboCop is about how... Murphy heroically reclaims his identity by getting revenge but then just keeps working for the evil corporation? Wait a minute... that's not satire at all! That's a reactionary reading of RoboCop! If you're going to retroactively apply RoboCop 2 to how the first movie plays out then sure.
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May 31, 2018 16:10
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https://twitter.com/DEADLINE/status/1002202747591016450 who un-greenlighteded this poo poo
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May 31, 2018 16:13
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FoneBone posted:https://twitter.com/DEADLINE/status/1002202747591016450 It's impressive that The Crow remake has now had a longer production than the entire rest of the franchise.
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May 31, 2018 16:24
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Wheat Loaf posted:I remember enjoying Watchmen a lot (but haven't watched it in a while) except the ending being changed. I get that the giant space squid probably would've been a hard sell but I liked that ending better. Any time I would feel like dedicating 3 hours to Snyder’s Watchmen adaptation, I could probably just read the comics in that amount of time instead.
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May 31, 2018 16:26
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X-Ray Pecs posted:Any time I would feel like dedicating 3 hours to Snyder’s Watchmen adaptation, I could probably just read the comics in that amount of time instead. Anytime I pick up Watchmen, I end up reading the whole thing cover to cover.
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May 31, 2018 16:29
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X-Ray Pecs posted:Any time I would feel like dedicating 3 hours to Snyder’s Watchmen adaptation, I could probably just read the comics in that amount of time instead. Well you could also read Godfather or Jaws instead of watching them, I suppose, for all the good that will do you.
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May 31, 2018 16:29
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:Well you could also read Godfather or Jaws instead of watching them, I suppose, for all the good that will do you. The Godfather and Jaws, the movies, rule. The Godfather and Jaws, the books, suck major rear end. The opposite of this paradigm is true for Watchmen.
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May 31, 2018 16:44
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May 31, 2018 16:47
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Neo Rasa posted:
Yeah but I meant specifically how the guy who played Leonidas said he was not that ripped and it was post CG Like he was cut I'm sure but not to the comic book standards of that movie Also it was dumb and bad why are y'all still talking about it? Surface reading is all it deserved
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May 31, 2018 16:49
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X-Ray Pecs posted:The Godfather and Jaws, the movies, rule. The Godfather and Jaws, the books, suck major rear end. The opposite of this paradigm is true for Watchmen. Nah, the comic is also good.
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May 31, 2018 16:53
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syscall girl posted:Yeah but I meant specifically how the guy who played Leonidas said he was not that ripped and it was post CG wait WHAT
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May 31, 2018 16:54
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300 is a pretty important movie on a technical level, that's something that you really can't take away from it. Something so stylized had never become such a mainstream hit before, it was the first movie where people were like "holy poo poo it's like a comic book came to life!" It started a very strong trend that stuck around for quite a while and led to other big hits like Sin City. Edit: Huh, apparently Sin City came out the year before 300? That's not how I remember it happening at all but ok I guess Sin City deserves the credit. SciFiDownBeat posted:wait WHAT Yes, I'm sorry to inform you that Fassbender and Faramir were never golden gods with abs carved from marble. Well, maybe Fassbender. Basebf555 fucked around with this message at 16:57 on May 31, 2018 |
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May 31, 2018 16:55
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Wheat Loaf posted:Nah, the comic is also good. That’s what I was saying, the comic is good but the movie’s boring.
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May 31, 2018 16:57
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X-Ray Pecs posted:That’s what I was saying, the comic is good but the movie’s boring. Ah, I misunderstood your post, sorry.
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May 31, 2018 16:58
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My favorite thing about people saying that RoboCop ends on a happy note because he "got revenge and embraced his humanity" is that he didn't even get revenge on the guy who did all this to him. Dick Jones had nothing to do with creating him and actively opposed the whole enterprise, while all the people directly involved (except Miguel Ferrer) walked scot free. The last scene of the film is literally Murphy reporting to the man who authorized his murder as music plays.
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May 31, 2018 16:59
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Yeah, the bad guys won in Robo-Cop before the story even started.
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May 31, 2018 17:00
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Alan Smithee posted:On Sunday I was in Hollywood and these 2 fast 3 furious bros shut down an intersection so they could do a donut sideshow. Cops couldn't get to them since traffic was jammed but to cap off their getaway they tossed a firework causing a guy to go into seizure on the boulevard. Cops locked it down and ambulance took him away. Since the show was over I went back to drinking at the Star Wars cantina themed bar where we lamented the poor box office showing of Solo even if we understood the causes thereof but it's cool because we got to hang out with ray park a few days prior haha e: Are there 55 year old air force pilots? e2: syscall girl posted:Yeah but I meant specifically how the guy who played Leonidas said he was not that ripped and it was post CG There's a great article about the physical training the actors did for the movie, and how Leonida's actor just blew it off to go drinking instead or something. Shageletic fucked around with this message at 17:09 on May 31, 2018 |
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May 31, 2018 17:02
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Basebf555 posted:Yes, I'm sorry to inform you that Fassbender and Faramir were never golden gods with abs carved from marble. Well, maybe Fassbender. You ruined 300 you monster
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May 31, 2018 17:09
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Actually that makes the movie even better. The Spartans would certainly embellish the size of their abs of they were telling a story about themselves
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May 31, 2018 17:13
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Sort of relevant the Gauls actually had standards of appearance for their armies. If your gut hung below your belt you were cut off from the vino
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May 31, 2018 17:19
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syscall girl posted:Yeah but I meant specifically how the guy who played Leonidas said he was not that ripped and it was post CG This is a tragedy worthy of Sophocles.
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May 31, 2018 17:21
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Shageletic posted:haha Yes, usually they are in the Air National Guard. However, Maverick is a Naval Aviator.
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May 31, 2018 17:23
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MacheteZombie posted:Yeah I feel like a lot of people are forgetting that when Starship Troopers came out a lot of people missed that it was a satire. Ebert said it was a sly satire at best, which I feel is still underselling how much of a satire it is.
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May 31, 2018 17:23
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Shageletic posted:Are there 55 year old air force pilots? No mandatory age, but you're expected to promote if you want to stay in the forces, and by year 15 he very likely wouldn't be in a position to fly a jet himself most of the time. If he waited until the maximum allowable age to become a pilot (30), unless he became some kind of general and flies because gently caress-you-I'm-a-general, he'd have retired at least five years ago. And he was 24 when the original movie game out, so really he should have been out 11 years ago. marshmallow creep fucked around with this message at 17:29 on May 31, 2018 |
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May 31, 2018 17:27
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syscall girl posted:Sort of relevant the Gauls actually had standards of appearance for their armies. So Obelix is disqualified?
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May 31, 2018 17:27
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Wait, by hanging below the belt, are we talking "dunlop disease?" If not, then Obelix is safe.
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May 31, 2018 17:29
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syscall girl posted:Yeah but I meant specifically how the guy who played Leonidas said he was not that ripped and it was post CG 
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May 31, 2018 17:30
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Babysitter Super Sleuth posted:My favorite thing about people saying that RoboCop ends on a happy note because he "got revenge and embraced his humanity" is that he didn't even get revenge on the guy who did all this to him. Dick Jones had nothing to do with creating him and actively opposed the whole enterprise, while all the people directly involved (except Miguel Ferrer) walked scot free. The last scene of the film is literally Murphy reporting to the man who authorized his murder as music plays. Explain how Bob Morton and Dick Jones had nothing to do with the societal direction that lead to RoboCop existing. :P Look at this way: FreudianSlippers posted:Yeah, the bad guys won in Robo-Cop before the story even started. Part of why the movie resonates so strongly with people is that it's realistic in that one guy got a kinda sorta win for himself instead of one guy bringing down the system or single handedly changing the world. It's a much more personal movie than the parts of it that most people talk about.
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May 31, 2018 17:35
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I don't understand why people keep comparing 300 to Starship Troopers. It's much closer to Robocop in that it actually succeeds as the thing it's trying to parody (a kick-rear end action movie) but also works on another level. These are the best satires in my opinion: one that can be read completely straight. I like that. Also interestingly enough Frank Miller wrote Robocop 2 and it's basically Robocop played straight and it's one nasty piece of work. Every loving chud in a MAGA hat would be 100% ok with Robocop world.
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May 31, 2018 17:36
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Megaman's Jockstrap posted:I don't understand why people keep comparing 300 to Starship Troopers. It's much closer to Robocop in that it actually succeeds as the thing it's trying to parody (a kick-rear end action movie) but also works on another level. These are the best satires in my opinion: one that can be read completely straight. I like that. Yup. IIRC it's not AS bad as that "Frank Miller's RoboCop 2" comic that came out where some super untalented people made an adaptation of his script but I can understand why it was changed. I do wish RoboCop 1's creators got to do their original idea for a sequel though after the movie got big, as you'd have another movie that's still relevant today.
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May 31, 2018 17:38
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FreudianSlippers posted:Yeah, the bad guys won in Robo-Cop before the story even started. The remake puts a much, much nastier twist on this. Without the blaring, triumphal Poledouris soundtrack, you don't know to take Robo's "freedom" as a sick joke.
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May 31, 2018 17:41
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FreudianSlippers posted:So Obelix is disqualified?  You tell him no
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May 31, 2018 17:45
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Megaman's Jockstrap posted:Every loving chud in a MAGA hat would be 100% ok with Robocop world. I mean, let's not forget that nerds were trying to get a Robocop statue in Detroit for some reason.
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May 31, 2018 17:47
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HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:I mean, let's not forget that nerds were trying to get a Robocop statue in Detroit for some reason. Christ I forgot about that
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May 31, 2018 18:11
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