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Blaze Dragon posted:I'm entirely convinced Char could've become a genuinely good person and an incredibly charismatic leader had his dad not died. In contrast, I heavily wonder if Amuro would've gotten anywhere if he hadn't been dragged into war, seeing how he was at the beginning of the series. I mean, he might have been a nobody, but he probably would have been happy and alive instead of completely destroyed by the war, both emotionally and eventually physically. Sam Sanskrit posted:I always saw Char leaking the psychoframe data as him subconsciously self sabotaging rather then his stated aim of wanting to fight Amuro in a fair fight. Char has mixed feelings about what hes doing and frankly has maybe literally never won a fight against Amuro. The "fight me as my rival" thing always struck me as an excuse to get Amuro to prevent him from going through with it. Sort of? To me its not that deep down he wants Amuro to stop him from doing the thing, its that he's doing the thing so that Amuro comes out to stop him. He wants his big showdown and the only way he can force Amuro's hand is by doing the Axis thing. Amuro coming out to fight him is the actual goal. Does he self-sabotage by giving him a load of rad-tech to make it "fair"? Maybe, but he isn't sabotaging the Axis thing because its mostly about fighting Amuro. He only gloats and yells about how he's won and Amuro was too late because he lost. "I did it, my plan was perfect and you're trash and I won the overall battle even though I lost the duel! Which I only lost because I gave you too good a robot! Really if you think about it I beat myself!" thinks man who has been basketball dunked in to a rock and is about to burn up in the atmosphere.
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May 31, 2018 15:42
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Midjack posted:At CCA, are Char and Amuro the two most experienced pilots in the world, full stop? They're nearly ground floor on mobile suits and not many pilots survived the intervening conflicts. Char probably is, but on reflection Amuro might not be. He didn't seem to do a bunch of piloting after the OYW and prior to zeta.
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May 31, 2018 15:54
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EthanSteele posted:Sort of? To me its not that deep down he wants Amuro to stop him from doing the thing, its that he's doing the thing so that Amuro comes out to stop him. He wants his big showdown and the only way he can force Amuro's hand is by doing the Axis thing. Amuro coming out to fight him is the actual goal. Amuro and Bright talk about how they've been regularly searching every colony as part of Londo Bell to find signs of Char for 3 years early in the movie, but that they never can because the colonists always hide him. If Char's main goal was to force Amuro to fight him, then there's no need for him to do anything, because Amuro is already searching for him to ensure he's not doing anything. He might have needed some kind of plot to ensure Amuro would fight him when they did find Char I suppose, but it didn't need to be anything as overwhelming as trying to initiate a nuclear winter on Earth to do so either. Frankly, if Char had asked for a no holds barred duel one on one to settle the question of who was the better pilot I'm not sure Amuro would have refused regardless. chiasaur11 posted:Shiro's team goes up against a mid-tier Zeon ace, Norris Packard. Pretty drat good, but not an absolute nightmare like Char, Johnny, or Breniss. They have three Gundams and three Guntanks. To be fair, Shiro goes up against Norris Packard alone for the second half of that fight and Norris only manages to kill one Guntank during that portion (though it's also all he was aiming for) and Norris seems to realize he's not getting away from the fight with Shiro. He probably could have done more than he did if he hadn't been so fatalistic and protective of Aina's emotional connection to Shiro, but it's implied he was aware he wasn't getting away regardless. That whole fight is kind of stupid though in my opinion, both for making the climax of a team focused show a one on one duel and for making everyone in the 08th MS Team blithering idiots to make Norris look like an ace. Incidentally, I've never even heard of this Breniss guy. chiasaur11 posted:Chris does a little better. In a one-on-one duel against an elite Zeon pilot who just made ace-in-a-day off of the Scarlet Team, she managed to secure a win without completely totally her ride, but a single Zaku finished the Gundam off shortly after. It didn't finish the Gundam, or it's pilot. It's final strike took off the Gundam's head. That'd only finish the Alex off if the fight was taking place in the Fight Century (FC). Several Gundams have operated without heads before and after that point in UC, so there's no reason to believe that's any kind of crippling blow. Chris needed (or at least, had) help getting out of the cockpit but she had been fighting fine up to that point and Bernie's final attack couldn't have hurt her physically given what he did so it's not inconceivable she could have continued fighting despite suffering injuries in an earlier strike when the Zaku II FZ's heat hawk tore a gash in the Alex's stomach armor. Honestly, I'm not even sure why the medics seemed so worried about her in the aftermath, because the shrapnel from the Zaku II FZ's slash only seems to hit her in the arm. Potentially serious sure, but she seems like she's barely conscious when the medics help her out of the cockpit and there's a guy screaming about how they need a stretcher. The bigger mystery though is why Bernie aimed for the Alex's head at all? I know he's a rookie, but that just seems like a stupid place to aim in a one on one final slash showdown. Other than taking off the head and tearing open a gash in the stomach, the only other notable damage to the Alex is that one arm gatling has been torn off. It's really not that much damage, and units are often repaired from worse to full apparent strength with a couple of days at most in the various TV shows. The RX-78-2 for instance has it's waist melted to the point Amuro verbally confirms the legs can't move correctly and are basically useless at one point in Mobile Suit Gundam for instance, and then next episode the whole unit is fine. A period that can't have been more than a few days. Hilariously enough, the unit that troubled Amuro so much is a single Gouf piloted by an un-named (and I'm pretty sure unseen) Zeon pilot a couple of episodes after Amuro had already defeated Ramba Ral. This complete randomer appears to have given Amuro more trouble than a noted ace pilot. All so that the show can push an upgrade (the G-Bull I think). tsob fucked around with this message at 16:31 on May 31, 2018 |
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May 31, 2018 16:29
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I always thought the point of the headshots in Gundam was because that was where all the cameras were - blinding the pilot would take it out of the fight. It could be fixed if they had a spare head laying around (like when they put the GM head on in 08th MS Team), but with the Alex it at least hosed the thing up enough that by the time it was fixed the One Year War was over, so it never got shipped out to Amuro, who probably would have used it to massacre even more Zeon scrubs.
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May 31, 2018 18:35
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The RX-78-2 spent half of A Baoa Qu with no head. The head does house the main camera and other systems, like communications stuff from my understanding but it's the "main" camera for a reason and mobile suits have others that supplement and can replace the main camera if it's lost. Losing it would presumably make your view of the battlefield worse (though I'm not sure 0079 actually made Amuro's camera view worse off the top of my head), but the point is it isn't a problem that'll shut a unit out of a battle on it's own. Also, the Alex was never going to reach Amuro. Even if the Cyclops Team and Zeon in general had never touched Side 6 it was still officially in testing on the 25th of December and the final battle of the One Year War takes place clear across the Earthsphere at A Baoa Qu only a week later. Which is how long it takes to ship something across that distance even at speed, given that the White Base took something like 3 days to go from Side 7 to Earth (which is half the distance). The unit was planned to give to Amuro, but was imagined to late to ever reach him, because the final battle happened earlier than anticipated. If they'd wanted to get it to him, they could have just put the damaged unit on a ship and repaired it in transit. Worse damaged has been repaired faster by less provisioned ships (see the aforementioned example of the RX-78-2 suffering crippling damage to it's waist and legs while the White Base was in enemy territory and explicity suffering from resource problems). The Cyclops team attack disrupted scheduled testing, but it was only a problem in the previous day or so as far as the Federation were concerned (i.e. once Mikhail attacked in the Kampfer) and everything was going fine until then. Testing wasn't finished on the 25th of December, it was interrupted. If they were going to ship the unit to Amuro for A Baoa Qu they'd have to be shipping it without fulling testing the unit (though to be fair, that's exactly what happened with the Nu) and nobody every mentions wrapping testing early to shuttle the unit out for a battle. tsob fucked around with this message at 18:56 on May 31, 2018 |
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May 31, 2018 18:53
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ANAmal.net posted:I always thought the point of the headshots in Gundam was because that was where all the cameras were - blinding the pilot would take it out of the fight. It could be fixed if they had a spare head laying around (like when they put the GM head on in 08th MS Team), but with the Alex it at least hosed the thing up enough that by the time it was fixed the One Year War was over, so it never got shipped out to Amuro, who probably would have used it to massacre even more Zeon scrubs. That's just where the main cameras are
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May 31, 2018 19:00
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Do any of the SRW games address how terrifying Amuro would be if the Alex or an FA-78 were supplied to him?
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May 31, 2018 19:34
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EthanSteele posted:I mean, he might have been a nobody, but he probably would have been happy and alive instead of completely destroyed by the war, both emotionally and eventually physically. As I said before, you compare CCA Amuro with episode 1 Amuro, it's not CCA Amuro who comes off the worse for it.
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May 31, 2018 20:43
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Arcsquad12 posted:Do any of the SRW games address how terrifying Amuro would be if the Alex or an FA-78 were supplied to him? To an extent. It's less common these days, but swapping Amuro into a more advanced unit in advance of the Nu Gundam is a fairly common SRW strategy. Notably what unit you put him in varies wildly by game. The thing to remember is that SRW has almost never actually done the OYW, and very rarely has Super Robot Wars had original era Amuro and it's much less common these days to put him in the original Gundam. Most of the time Amuro is from the Zeta Gundam or CCA era, and rarely starts in something less advanced than the ReGZ. However there are some games where Amuro starts in a less amazing unit and putting him in the Alex or similar is a scary thing. Compact 1 is an example where the good unit in question actually is the Alex, and it does let him rampage through much of the game. The G-3 Gundam is a possible secret you can get early in Super Robot Wars Alpha replacing the RX-78-2, and if you get it you're basically set in terms of Amuro for the first half of the game. Similarly you can put him in the Gundam F91 instead of the MP Nu Gundam or the ReGZ in Alpha 2, you can put him in the Turn A for the early game of SRWZ1 instead of keeping him Char's Rick Dias which he defaults to, and so forth. The FA-78 is usable in Super Robot Wars A where it's one of two possible semi-secret upgrades you can get for the Gundam, you can pick up either the FA-78 or the G-Armor. SRW GC/XO is the only game (besides OE which is its own kettle of fish) in recent memory that actually covers the One Year War, including doing 08th MS Team and Gundam 0080 (And Metal Armor Dragonar) as part of it. Between Mission 5 (Picking up Project V's mobile suits from Side 7 which includes the Dragonars) and Mission 17 (A Baoa Qu) there's only a handful of non-OYW related stages. You shoot down the Apsalus, you defend Jaburo, you fight the Big Zam at Solomon, and after going into space the White Base stops off at Side 6 where Amuro picks up both the Alex (which by default stays with Chris) and the G-3. Of course after you defeat Zeon you take a wormhole into deep space and have a string of missions where you leave to go and start the L.Gaim storyline and when you get back the baddies from Layzner have conquerered half the planet and are being opposed by the AEUG team of Quattro Bajeena, Camille Bidam, Emma Sheen, and Lalah Soon. Incidentally GC/XO lets you pick up Bernie and Aina as POWs, who immediately join for real once Zeon is off the map. Aina even brings a GM Sniper with her, so that's nice. Also you can put Kai and Hayato in Gelgoogs or Bigros, which is also nice. Omnicrom fucked around with this message at 02:39 on Jun 1, 2018 |
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May 31, 2018 21:13
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God bless Super Robot Wars.
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May 31, 2018 21:20
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Now all we need is Super Newtype Kai Shinden in a SRW.
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May 31, 2018 22:25
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Omnicrom posted:you can put [Amuro] in the Turn A for the early game of SRWZ1 instead of keeping him Char's Rick Dias which he defaults to, and so forth. Can Amuro use any abilities in the Turn-A that Loran can't out of interest? I ask, because a recurring thing with the Turn-A is that certain things, mostly stuff listed for the "Black History Turn-A" like weapon teleportation, are unusable by Oldtypes according to things like the MG Gunpla manual. I'd personally just say the animation is what it can do, and adding in wank like the novels, manuals and some games seems kind of pointless but I'm curious how SRW handled that one thing. Omnicrom posted:after going into space the White Base stops off at Side 6 where Amuro picks up both the Alex (which by default stays with Chris) and the G-3. Does Chris become a Newtype later or something? Seems kind of pointless to keep her in the Alex, when even in show a mechanic points out that it's intentionally tuned to be too fast for an Oldtype like her. Seems like a GM, Guncannon or just the RX-78-2 would fit her better really. Omnicrom posted:Incidentally GC/XO lets you pick up Bernie and Aina as POWs, who immediately join for real once Zeon is off the map. Aina even brings a GM Sniper with her, so that's nice. Also you can put Kai and Hayato in Gelgoogs or Bigros, which is also nice. I don't know, Bernie seemed like he would have been done with being a soldier full stop if he'd survived the end of 0080 and Aina already abandoned the war to raise a family so it seems kind of not nice to me to have them dragged back in. tsob fucked around with this message at 22:37 on May 31, 2018 |
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May 31, 2018 22:30
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I don't believe the Turn A gets anything special for a Newtype pilot. It's main draw is usually Moonlight Butterfly being a MAP attack that can target multiple enemies in one attack. Even an Oldtype can manage that. Incidentally, Loran has a mana regen ability that's usually limited to special empathic people, because maybe the real Newtypes were the friends we made along the way? Chris, Bernie, and Aina are what we tend to call "squaddies." They'll severely lag behind the Newtypes unless you go out your way to feed them exp and unit upgrades, at which point they'll only somewhat lag behind. There can be reasons to want them around, especially if you just like them, but you're right in assuming they'll be getting other people's hand-me-down units instead of starting to kick rear end on their own. And to your last point, SRW is infamous for turning even Shinji Ikari into a CHAMPION OF JUSTICE. If Bernie and Aina have something they want to protect, they'll gladly fight the Mechasauruses and Jovian Lizards who threaten peace.
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May 31, 2018 23:43
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tsob posted:Can Amuro use any abilities in the Turn-A that Loran can't out of interest? I ask, because a recurring thing with the Turn-A is that certain things, mostly stuff listed for the "Black History Turn-A" like weapon teleportation, are unusable by Oldtypes according to things like the MG Gunpla manual. I'd personally just say the animation is what it can do, and adding in wank like the novels, manuals and some games seems kind of pointless but I'm curious how SRW handled that one thing. No SRW with Turn A has ever explored the novel stuff/manual stuff and they stick to what was in the show; the Turn A typically starts off as a middling to good unit and unlocks an increasing number of upgrades(beam rifle, I-Field, etc) until it unlocks the Moonlight Butterfly near the endgame and becomes a terror. The only games that have gone into the idea of a fully unlocked Turn A are G Generation games, which is a fun what-if exercise: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cb2r-9QuDtk quote:Does Chris become a Newtype later or something? Seems kind of pointless to keep her in the Alex, when even in show a mechanic points out that it's intentionally tuned to be too fast for an Oldtype like her. Seems like a GM, Guncannon or just the RX-78-2 would fit her better really. The Alex, when it appears, is never given any abilities or weapons that only function for newtypes. Newtypes are usually represented in games by having a Newtype level that provides various combat bonuses and allows you to use newtype-specific weaponry like funnels; this means that Amuro will wring more out of the Alex than Chris because he's just a better pilot in general, but the Alex doesn't do anything special with a newtype in it. There are suits that do special things with newtypes in them, but those are almost universally suits with psycommus, biosensors, psycoframes, and the like. quote:I don't know, Bernie seemed like he would have been done with being a soldier full stop if he'd survived the end of 0080 and Aina already abandoned the war to raise a family so it seems kind of not nice to me to have them dragged back in. In every game where you recruit Bernie and Aina, the war isn't over when you recruit them. Like Zeon might be done for or kaput but there's generally a world war raging with some other power, be it another Gundam villain or super robot villains or whatever; generally the conceit is the more peace-loving characters(Shiro, Aina, etc) agree that nothing will be safe unless they do their best to help you stop the war, after which they'll retire. After all, it doesn't matter if you've stopped Zeon if some 70s super robot villain exterminates humanity.
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May 31, 2018 23:52
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tsob posted:Can Amuro use any abilities in the Turn-A that Loran can't out of interest? I ask, because a recurring thing with the Turn-A is that certain things, mostly stuff listed for the "Black History Turn-A" like weapon teleportation, are unusable by Oldtypes according to things like the MG Gunpla manual. I'd personally just say the animation is what it can do, and adding in wank like the novels, manuals and some games seems kind of pointless but I'm curious how SRW handled that one thing. Nope. In fact, depending on the game, Amuro may be able to use fewer abilities since the Moonlight Butterfly is often only usable by Loran. In Z1 the Turn A is something of a late bloomer, being upgraded via plot events 3 times before the end of the game. In the early portion of the game before anyone realizes it can fly the Turn A is kind of a janky ground attacker with very specific limits to how it can attack. Putting Amuro who has Attack Again and a high newtype level in the Turn A gives it an edge before it can fly and use the Beam Drop Cannon. Later in the game Loran is a completely fine pilot for the Turn A, his stats grow impressively as you level him up, SP Regen forgives many minor shortcomings, and Loran has Soul as opposed to Amuro's Hotblood which means you can get a lot more army nukage out of the Moonlight Butterfly. tsob posted:Does Chris become a Newtype later or something? Seems kind of pointless to keep her in the Alex, when even in show a mechanic points out that it's intentionally tuned to be too fast for an Oldtype like her. Seems like a GM, Guncannon or just the RX-78-2 would fit her better really. Chris is a pretty okay pilot in GC/XO, though you're spoiled for choice if you really want to give it to someone else as you get the White Base crew including Sleggar and Sayla and the 08th MS Team along with Sayla. And it's actually one of the better suits for the OYW oldtypes, unlike a lot of Mobile Suits from the OYW era the Alex has a decently powerful finishing move so it gives you something with a little oomph. The Alex is good, but you're spoiled for choice in the other direction as well, in GC/XO's One Year War campaign you get the RX-78-2, the G-Armor, a GM Sniper, the Ez8 with its classic "fire everything" attack, the G-3's hyper hammer, and as many Gelgoogs, Bigros, Kaemphers, Rick Doms, and Apsaluses as you care to collect. I kept Chris in the Alex mostly because everyone else who might want it more was just fine where they were. It definitely has a half-life since the game eventually tosses you stuff like the Zeta, ZZ, and Nu Gundams, but up until then there's a whole host of OYW era pilots and units that are made perfectly viable by the huge collection of MSes and MAs you can snag. tsob posted:I don't know, Bernie seemed like he would have been done with being a soldier full stop if he'd survived the end of 0080 and Aina already abandoned the war to raise a family so it seems kind of not nice to me to have them dragged back in. In the context of the game you get Bernie by having Chris completely incapacitate his Zaku II, then she drags him away. Bernie is let go by your team after A Baoa Qu falls, but he decides himself to stay with the White Base to defend the Earth from aliens. Meanwhile Aina only surrenders if you reenact the ending of 08th MS Team but let the Zanzibar escape. Do so and she'll voluntarily turn herself in, again to stay put and voluntarily grab the GM Sniper to help out with the alien invasion. So no, not 100% accurate to the series but it's not like the writers didn't consider that and have a scene where the characters go "you know what? This time I'm gonna choose to fight because it's Super Robot Wars". Honestly my biggest disappointment is that Sayla and Quattro basically don't have any scenes together. Quattro's disguise is even more paper thin than in Zeta Gundam considering you have a whole host of people who repeatedly fought him and also his right hand woman is Lalah Soon who is flying the Elmeth, but the cast seem content to just kind of play along and work with him.
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May 31, 2018 23:52
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if i live in america and don't speak japanese and want to experience a SRW game, what are my options
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May 31, 2018 23:58
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ninjewtsu posted:if i live in america and don't speak japanese and want to experience a SRW game, what are my options The two most recent, V and X released with official English translations. You can get them by ordering a SEA copy from Play Asia or from the Singapore PSN on your PS4 (you have to buy Singapore PSN cards from Play Asia but once downloaded you can play on any profile). This is how I started. The biggest difference Gundam-wise is that V features Unicorn, Hathaway's Flash, SEED/Destiny and OO while X has G Reco, Endless Waltz and CCA. They both have Crossbone, Zeta and ZZ. If you care about other robot shows the biggest differences are Full Metal Panic!, Getter Robo, Zambot 3, Starbalzer 2099, Evangelion and Nedesico Prince of Darkness in V and Wataru (Keith Courage in America), Aura Battler Dunbine, Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagaan, Nadia of the Blue Water and Code Geas in X Otherwise the first 3 games in the series have translation patches as do Alpha Gaiden and another one. There's also a good who's been LPing several games in the series and you can use those to play along with various PS2/DS games. Finally the first 2 'OG' games were officially released in English on GBA. They have the gameplay but exclusively feature original characters. Zore fucked around with this message at 00:17 on Jun 1, 2018 |
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Jun 1, 2018 00:07
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ninjewtsu posted:if i live in america and don't speak japanese and want to experience a SRW game, what are my options Good news! We live in an amazing era of English-translated SRWs, both official and not! Your options are:
There are a variety of other SRW games available in English, but these are the fully English-translated ones with Gundam content currently available. Kanos fucked around with this message at 00:19 on Jun 1, 2018 |
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Jun 1, 2018 00:12
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ninjewtsu posted:if i live in america and don't speak japanese and want to experience a SRW game, what are my options There's two licensed games for the PS4 that are in English for the Singapore/SEA market, as the PS4 is region free and Singapore PSN uses English for setting it up, it's really easy to acquire said games if you're willing to buy some Singapore PSN cards off Play-Asia Said games are SRW V and SRW X There's also fan translations for SRW J for the GBA, and SRW Alpha Gaiden for PS1
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Jun 1, 2018 00:16
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chiasaur11 posted:As I said before, you compare CCA Amuro with episode 1 Amuro, it's not CCA Amuro who comes off the worse for it. CCA Amuro: he has PTSD flashbacks, murders a bunch of people and dies saving the world. Episode 1 Amuro: he sits in his room playing with electronics and has someone remind him to eat because he's an obsessive teen nerd, oh no! Then all of his neighbours are annihilated in an explosion and in the face of death by giant robot he jumps in the Gundam and becomes a child soldier to help people. Or to be as unfair as I was to CCA Amuro: murders a bunch of people, doesn't die and develops PTSD. More seriously, most 29 year olds are more functional and more well put together than their 15 year old selves and Amuro's life would probably have been taking after his father and using his father's connections to become an incredibly successful engineer (he designed the Nu) instead of a child soldier who then has PTSD flashbacks and dies.
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Jun 1, 2018 00:28
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Well that's all unfortunately roundabout, but if the translations are good they don't seem too out of the way. Thanks goons!
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Jun 1, 2018 00:39
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ninjewtsu posted:Well that's all unfortunately roundabout, but if the translations are good they don't seem too out of the way. Thanks goons! If you don't want to mess about digitally (you won't be able to get the DLC if you don't) then you can try to get a disc copy and that should run just fine.
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Jun 1, 2018 00:42
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Omnicrom posted:In the early portion of the game before anyone realizes it can fly the Turn A is kind of a janky ground attacker with very specific limits to how it can attack. Sounds pretty true to the anime then. I kind of like that despite becoming one of the most powerful Gundams by the finale, it starts off as one of the most low tech units in the franchise to this day and doesn't use any weapons of any kind for nearly 10 episodes (though it doesn't appear in one of those episodes). It makes a nice contrast, and really helps build the mystique of the unit while matching the level of enemies around and tone of the show at any given time. Omnicrom posted:the Beam Drop Cannon. Is that the name of the cannon Gym has placed in the abdomen of the unit or something? Wonder what the "drop" part refers to? Omnicrom posted:Later in the game Loran is a completely fine pilot for the Turn A, his stats grow impressively as you level him up, SP Regen forgives many minor shortcomings, and Loran has Soul as opposed to Amuro's Hotblood which means you can get a lot more army nukage out of the Moonlight Butterfly. It's nice to see Loran get some love. He seems to be viewed as kind of worthless as a pilot by a lot of fans, which I've always found rather unfair. He's not the best in the franchise or anything, but he's pretty creative, has very good aim (especially in the first half of the show where he rarely shoots but almost every shot he does make connects, less so once he goes to space) and I'd put him above at least a few other pilots personally. Kanos posted:The Alex, when it appears, is never given any abilities or weapons that only function for newtypes. Newtypes are usually represented in games by having a Newtype level that provides various combat bonuses and allows you to use newtype-specific weaponry like funnels; this means that Amuro will wring more out of the Alex than Chris because he's just a better pilot in general, but the Alex doesn't do anything special with a newtype in it. There are suits that do special things with newtypes in them, but those are almost universally suits with psycommus, biosensors, psycoframes, and the like. I suppose a unit's reaction speed, or the pilot's ability to take advantage of it, wouldn't really matter in an RPG of any kind so that makes sense. ninjewtsu posted:If i live in america and don't speak japanese and want to experience a SRW game, what are my options This, but for G Gen games since the SRW stuff has been answered so thoroughly. EthanSteele posted:CCA Amuro: he has PTSD flashbacks. Do you mean seeing Lalah in his dream? I'm not really seeing how that qualifies as a flashback, even if you view her as a figment of his self-conscious, both because it's happening when he's asleep and more importantly because he doesn't see her in a past context but as someone commenting on his present. EthanSteele posted:Amuro designed the Nu I do wonder about that. Did he actually do any real design work, or just designate various weapons and systems he'd like. The Anaheim engineer mentions it had the psycommu system he requested, but it seems like he designed it in even less of a capacity than Kamille designing the Nu by making some basic changes to an existing design and adding one new thing he'd thought of. tsob fucked around with this message at 01:24 on Jun 1, 2018 |
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Jun 1, 2018 01:21
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tsob posted:Do you mean seeing Lalah in his dream? I'm not really seeing how that qualifies as a flashback, even if you view her as a figment of his self-conscious, both because it's happening when he's asleep and more importantly because he doesn't see her in a past context but as someone commenting on his present. Ok fine, he has PTSD related nightmares, my actual point that he is still affected by PTSD still stands. The main thrust of my argument is that being a child soldier sucks actually and unless Amuro was living in complete squalor and becoming a soldier was his only choice to escape it, which wasn't the case, it seems a bit wild to suggest that the war/being a child soldier was "good" for him, unless you consider military fame and glory more important than pretty much everything else. Was Amuro in the most terrible position he could possibly be in? No. Did he suffer a lot? Absolutely and it was avoidable if the war and events hadn't shaped his life the way it did. As for him designing the Nu, it is kinda blurry. I don't know if it was just put together to his specifications or if he designed all of it, but then Anaheim tweaked it with some secret tech they had a la Kamille and the Zeta. I am 99% sure he actually for real invented the Haro though! The PS4 G Gen game G Gen Genesis is available in English on the SIngapore PSN in the same way as SRW V and X. It covers all the UC stuff from MSG episode 1 to Hathaway's Flash, its alright! You can have a boat with MSG Bright, Z Bright, ZZ Bright, CCA Bright and Unicorn Bright as the crew and what more do you really need?
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Jun 1, 2018 01:50
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tsob posted:Is that the name of the cannon Gym has placed in the abdomen of the unit or something? Wonder what the "drop" part refers to? Correction, the attack is called "Beam Drive Unit". It's the weird beam cannon in the Turn A's abdomen that sprays beam particles until things explode. It's actually a major part of the Turn A's offense in Z1 and Z3 for reasons that are based entirely on gameplay mechanics. tsob posted:It's nice to see Loran get some love. He seems to be viewed as kind of worthless as a pilot by a lot of fans, which I've always found rather unfair. He's not the best in the franchise or anything, but he's pretty creative, has very good aim (especially in the first half of the show where he rarely shoots but almost every shot he does make connects, less so once he goes to space) and I'd put him above at least a few other pilots personally. Loran in SRW is often lower on the spectrum of aces, but decidedly good in multiple other ways. Most commonly the way it works is by giving Loran SP Regen and a really good suite of Spirit Commands. It doesn't really matter when your base stats aren't the best when you have the nearly unlimited resources that let you manually give yourself perfect accuracy and evasion. tsob posted:I suppose a unit's reaction speed, or the pilot's ability to take advantage of it, wouldn't really matter in an RPG of any kind so that makes sense. Actually SRW early in its lifetime had a stat called "Limit" which represented a unit's upper capacity to keep up with the pilot. It was meant to represent the bit in Gundam where Amuro complains the Gundam doesn't move as fast as he does. It was dropped from existence around 20 years ago because it didn't actually add anything to the game, you just dumped a little bit of cash into Limit whenever it capped out, it didn't actually create any particularly interesting decisions. tsob posted:This, but for G Gen games since the SRW stuff has been answered so thoroughly. G Generation Overworld on the PSP got a full translation patch about 6 months ago, and G Generation Genesis (not highly recommended) got an Asian English release like V and X.
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Jun 1, 2018 02:16
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I think Loran also does the Magikarp thing in at least one game, where he starts off kinda not very good but if you get him up to the big boy levels he's top tier, or at least as top tier as you can get being a Real pilot without Newtype. Which oddly enough is a problem easily solved by how good the Turn A is! PS: Give Quattro the Turn A
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Jun 1, 2018 02:34
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Finally watched IBO and that poo poo was brutal. The child bride poo poo was pretty gross and really not acknowledged in universe as being disgusting, which is probably my only complaint with the show. McGillis was kind of a despicable moron but they really played it up like he genuinely loved a baby and I hated it. In contrast I feel like they handled the Shino / Yamagi relationship better than I expected. Mika's sociopathy was pretty jaw dropping at times. A lot of Oh poo poo moments. I cried at the end. I give it 9/10 dead children.
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Jun 1, 2018 03:09
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EthanSteele posted:CCA Amuro: he has PTSD flashbacks, murders a bunch of people and dies saving the world. Kills. Not murders. There's a difference. Conflating them doesn't do anyone much good. It's more emphasized in the Origin, where Amuro's a flat-out lovely kid, but even in the original he's no good with people, doesn't make friends, and just generally bad with people. His time with the White Base crew involved a lot of trauma, but it also made him much more empathetic, social, and generally able to deal with other people, because unlike his old routines, figuring out how to cope with people was a matter of life and death. As for PTSD, given what we know about Newtypes, it's quite likely that he was being haunted by a literal ghost. Odd dreams under those circumstances don't make you a wreck of a human being. They just mean you pick up the phone when you're all alone.
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Jun 1, 2018 03:14
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Apparently in SRW X it's a recurring thing with villains from other series realizing that the Zeta(at least when piloted by Kamille) is basically powered by ghosts
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Jun 1, 2018 03:19
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Omnicrom posted:Correction, the attack is called "Beam Drive Unit". It's the weird beam cannon in the Turn A's abdomen that sprays beam particles until things explode. I thought the beam drive unit was how the Turns moved given that they apparently have no motors? That it basically used an I-field to manipulate the unit through various movements? The abdomen cannons are kind of weird anyway. You can see them in Mead's initial designs (along with shoulder mounted ones that sit flush with the curve of the unit's body, but that never made it in to the final design) but they're not actually part of the Turn-A in show and are instead something the Ghingham faction places there when Gym captures the unit. Which we know, because Loran fires missiles from the chest silos during one battle around the mid-teens and you can see the same bays the cannons are in later are firing missiles. So either Gym had them put there, or Loran can teleport weapons using the Turn-A after all. Or the Amerians placed them there off screen I suppose, but that just seems like lazy writing; to not even acknowledge a change in weapons within the show. Gym placing them there is at least implied given how Joseph says that Gym made the Turn-A much easier to use just before he fires said cannons. Regardless, they're probably the most effective weapons in the show given that they immediately burn through the Turn-X's back pack and destroy it and how durable the Turns are to everything else. The Turn-X's own limb beams do no physical damage to the Turn-A even when Gym spams dozens of shots at the Turn-A for instance. The same beams disable Harry and Poe's SUMOs with one (admittedly slighter longer, continuous) shot in the finale by contrast. Not to mention they have a fairly large cone of fire. So it looks like Gym had those cannons in storage but never added them to the Turn-X, or any of his own units. Which is weird given how effective they are. tsob fucked around with this message at 03:33 on Jun 1, 2018 |
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Jun 1, 2018 03:24
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Maybe they aren't compatible with the Turn X, that suit is supposed to have been permanently damaged from it's Black History battles
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Jun 1, 2018 03:33
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tsob posted:I thought the beam drive unit was how the Turns moved given that they apparently have no motors? That it basically used an I-field to manipulate the unit through various movements? You're close, the Turns are described as moving via a "I-Field Beam Drive System". As for the Beam Drive Unit's name I can't say where they got it from, but it is what the attack is called in Super Robot Wars, so make of that what you will. As for the weapon itself I believe in the series that Gym did had the Beam Drive Unit put in, because while the Turn A is described as being able to teleport in weapons it's possibly only from a DOC base, of which there are none functional left by the time of the series (a ruined DOC base is where Loran found the Turn A's Hyper Hammer). Whether or not they were compatible with the Turn X is unclear. Considering the Turn X's extremely sleek design with lots of internal weapons and the implication that it got seriously torn up the last time it fought the Turn A it's quite possible that the Turn X had literally no hardpoints to install them on. Put it another way do you think Samurai Gym would NOT use them if he had the option? Especially when his entire character is roughly "I want to use weapons!" Meanwhile In Super Robot Wars Z the Beam Drive Unit is installed after everyone figures out how to make the Turn A fly and how to activate it's I-Field Barrier. This isn't the only time SRW plays a little loose with when you get certain weapons, see the AGE-FX coming pre-equipped with the Daidal Bazooka or the Unicorn having the Beam Gatling right out the gate or literally any Super Robot Wars game that has ever had Dancougar. In gameplay terms the Beam Drive Unit is actually weaker than the Hyper Hammer or the Turn A's max output Beam Rifle (or in Z2 the attack where Loran calls in Sochie and Meshie in their Kapools to help out), but like I said it's really handy for other reasons.
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Jun 1, 2018 04:24
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JoeGlassJAw posted:Finally watched IBO and that poo poo was brutal. The child bride poo poo was pretty gross and really not acknowledged in universe as being disgusting, which is probably my only complaint with the show. McGillis was kind of a despicable moron but they really played it up like he genuinely loved a baby and I hated it. In contrast I feel like they handled the Shino / Yamagi relationship better than I expected. Mika's sociopathy was pretty jaw dropping at times. A lot of Oh poo poo moments. I cried at the end. I give it 9/10 dead children. The important thing to remember about McGillis is that behind his mask of competence, he’s about the same mental age as Almiria. Dude never grew up past that brothel. 
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Jun 1, 2018 04:27
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chiasaur11 posted:Kills. Not murders. There's a difference. Conflating them doesn't do anyone much good. I do not believe that Amuro is absolutely, objectively better off for having been a traumatized child soldier. He comes out really together considering all the stuff that happens to him. For me, that is in spite of what happened to him, rather than because of it. His dad helped develop the Gundam. He did the Haro. He was a genius engineer teen with a well connected father. He may not have been a famous war hero (a title he himself hates), but I think he would have done alright!
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Jun 1, 2018 04:55
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EthanSteele posted:I do not believe that Amuro is absolutely, objectively better off for having been a traumatized child soldier. He comes out really together considering all the stuff that happens to him. For me, that is in spite of what happened to him, rather than because of it. His dad helped develop the Gundam. He did the Haro. He was a genius engineer teen with a well connected father. He may not have been a famous war hero (a title he himself hates), but I think he would have done alright! You're basically arguing that it's impossible for a traumatic experience to have some positive outcomes, even when accompanied by a number of positive experiences that would not have happened otherwise. There's a lot of accounts to the contrary throughout history. Sometimes a horrible experience provides a person with something they wouldn't have achieved in ordinary life (see: descriptions of military camaraderie). That doesn't justify the horrible experience, or mean the person would have chosen it if they could do things over again, but it's a staple of both history and fiction. Returning to the specific, Amuro's dad is a genius, yes. He also wrecked his marriage, isolated himself from his son, and generally hosed over his own life in a way that would have been really easy for Amuro to repeat from the path we see him on initially. And Amuro's not even the most dramatic case on the White Base crew. Kai Shiden is forced to go from being a juvenile delinquent to a hero. Winds up one of the biggest voices against Federation corruption. Bad things can have good consequences, just like good things can have bad consequence. Saying the Black Death provided the lower class with improved work conditions isn't the same as saying that millions dying was good. Likewise, saying Amuro Ray wound up a better adjusted person after the One Year War than we'd be primed to expect otherwise isn't the same as denying that he got pretty loving traumatized by the whole thing, or the same as claiming that, in general, putting teenagers in mobile suits is a good idea. chiasaur11 fucked around with this message at 05:29 on Jun 1, 2018 |
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Jun 1, 2018 05:22
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JoeGlassJAw posted:Finally watched IBO and that poo poo was brutal. The child bride poo poo was pretty gross and really not acknowledged in universe as being disgusting, which is probably my only complaint with the show. McGillis was kind of a despicable moron but they really played it up like he genuinely loved a baby and I hated it. In contrast I feel like they handled the Shino / Yamagi relationship better than I expected. Mika's sociopathy was pretty jaw dropping at times. A lot of Oh poo poo moments. I cried at the end. I give it 9/10 dead children. Your reaction to the McGillis situation is probably as intended, at least as far as I can tell. Gjallerhorn has slipped back into the old nobility line of arranged marriages, so his being engaged to Almira isn't treated all that strangely, add to that the fact that most of his creepy behavior with Almira is behind closed doors and you end up with a situation where the nobility would probably be creeped out if they saw it, but are happily turning a blind eye to what isn't 'their business.' It is sort of up in the air as to whether or not McGillis actually feels the way he claims to about Almira, but if he does, it is probably a result of the same cycle of abuse that led to him thinking that stealing a robot would make him king of the world. His views about relationships of any type, friendship, familial or god forbid, sexual, are so hosed up because of what happened with his 'father' that it makes it hard for me to be disgusted by him so much as to pity him. McGillis is just the latest in a long line of victims. As another poster pointed out, McGillis lives in a fantasy world and in a lot of ways has the mindset of a child. He goes charging at a fleet in a single mobile suit, absolutely certain he'll win because he's a shining knight. When they hold back to let Gallio and Ein fight, he's convinced that everyone is just stunned and amazed by their awesome rocking mecha battle, instead of the reality that they just want to let Galileo get his chance before they dust McG.
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Jun 1, 2018 05:36
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chiasaur11 posted:Bad things can have good consequences, just like good things can have bad consequence. Saying the Black Death provided the lower class with improved work conditions isn't the same as saying that millions dying was good. Likewise, saying Amuro Ray wound up a better adjusted person after the One Year War than we'd be primed to expect otherwise isn't the same as denying that he got pretty loving traumatized by the whole thing, or the same as claiming that, in general, putting teenagers in mobile suits is a good idea. I'm sorry that I've gotten my point across so badly that I led you to think I might not understand this. My argument is that he didn't 100% absolutely require the war to end up as well adjusted as he did and that even if he did, that being a shut in nerd is maybe, just maybe, better than being a "pretty loving traumatized" child soldier. I agree that the war forced him to grow up fast so it did improve his life in some ways from his 15 year old self, but it also effected him in a bunch of hugely negative ways. I just think that some of that growth and success could have happened without all the trauma as well. Sure, he would experience a bunch of bad stuff too, but probably not anything that causes him to develop PTSD. I don't think he would stagnate and spend the rest of his life exactly the same with zero growth as his episode 1 self, I think over a 14 year period he would do alright.
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Jun 1, 2018 09:33
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JoeGlassJAw posted:Finally watched IBO and that poo poo was brutal. The child bride poo poo was pretty gross and really not acknowledged in universe as being disgusting, which is probably my only complaint with the show. McGillis was kind of a despicable moron but they really played it up like he genuinely loved a baby and I hated it. In contrast I feel like they handled the Shino / Yamagi relationship better than I expected. Mika's sociopathy was pretty jaw dropping at times. A lot of Oh poo poo moments. I cried at the end. I give it 9/10 dead children. If you go by what the writers have said after the show (not generally a good idea with IBO, they're pretty resentful and/or mad as hatters) Almiria's trauma post-McGillis is considered a big deal. She's a significant loose end that would be addressed, on par with Ride. IBO is big on showing cycles of abuse. The children that have grown up on the streets of Mars etc. aren't well-adjusted, and tragically often become monsters/abusers themselves. We see most of McGillis and Almiria's scenes before he reveals how hosed up his childhood was, so most of it is disguised by the 'McGillis is a cool guy who wants to make Gjallarhorn great again' mask, simply being super nice to his future wife/friend's sister, but by the end it's clear how hosed up his feelings towards her actually are. Her dad is naturally horrified by the results, even though he set the relationship up. This was not what he expected. Kudelia's objective throughout the show is to change the social and economic circumstances that lead to the Mikas and Akihiros and McGillises in the first place. Parent/child relationships are a focus of season two especially, with the importance of upbringing stressed (Hush and Julieta are essentially Sliding Doors McGillis and Mika). McGillis is an insane monster. The world made him that way. He wants to love and protect that little girl almost as much as anything else, because when he was given to a Gjallarhorn man things weren't so pleasant. He's a bit like Michael Jackson, I guess.
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Jun 1, 2018 10:25
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chiasaur11 posted:or the same as claiming that, in general, putting teenagers in mobile suits is a good idea. Well...you could say we have more than enough examples to say it is, indeed, a good idea. I mean, just look at the results! Teenagers are the best pilots so long as we aren't talking about Mobile Fighters. Also, this tweet. https://twitter.com/murasamefour/status/1002344541062619136
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Jun 1, 2018 13:15
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EthanSteele posted:My argument is that he didn't 100% absolutely require the war to end up as well adjusted as he did and that even if he did, that being a shut in nerd is maybe, just maybe, better than being a "pretty loving traumatized" child soldier. He's not a particularly traumatized child soldier though. Yea, he suffered some trauma from it, and I'm not trying to minimize the trauma he did suffer, but he appears to be doing fairly well despite it years later. Then again, I disagree with you that he even suffered from flashbacks by Char's Counterattack and appear to hold a unique view on the board that he wasn't still having problems dealing with Lalah's death in Zeta or Char's Counterattack; so those will color our disagreement on the matter. Regardless, by Char's Counterattack, said PTSD seems to not affect him much and he has several scenes where he socializes with kids and strangers as well as anyone can expect, has a stable relationship and only one thing that could qualify as a PTSD attack. He was pretty traumatized in his past (even by something like episode 10 of 0079 he's starting to go emotionally dead from the stress of combat for a while), but he's mostly recovered later in life. He might have gotten over being a shut in nerd to live a normal, happy lifestyle, but the same is true of being a child soldier. He chose to become a soldier despite his past and to fight against things he felt worth fighting for too, so he can't have thought that the child soldier thing was too traumatic or worthless himself. Blaze Dragon posted:Well...you could say we have more than enough examples to say it is, indeed, a good idea. I mean, just look at the results! Teenagers are the best pilots so long as we aren't talking about Mobile Fighters. Are they though? I mean, for every Amuro, Kamille & Judau you have a Katz, Sarah, Hathaway, Quess etc. There's a lot of bad to middling mobile suit teenage pilots who allow their emotional problems to interfere with their piloting or just don't become that great as pilots, even if they have Newtype powers to enhance them.
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Jun 1, 2018 14:26
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