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fishmech posted:Arab nations invaded Israel at least once after Israel had nuclear weapons, actually. Yep, and Nixon had no interest in finding out what would happen if it looked like Israel would lose the war. The one thing nuclear states do know is the power of nukes, and they have no interest in finding out if a rogue dictator with a nuke will call their bluff.
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Jun 1, 2018 03:01
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When would Europe ever allow nukes within 1000 miles of the continent? (Other than russia). I mean really. Nuclear proliferation in the mediterranean sea would be a scary loving idea. Illegal or not gaddafis administration wouldnt have lasted long with or without nukes.
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Jun 1, 2018 03:54
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qkkl posted:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cobalt_bomb Nope, most of it would disappear forever. Space isn't just a magic trampoline shoving things right back where they came from. Also you seem to have missed the word "theoretical" in your post. Just to give you a hint, if someone starts his hypothesis with that word, it's probably bullshit. You can start fearing cobalt bombs if and only if someone ever invents a matter teleporter to add to his bomb, otherwise even the largest cobalt bomb possible will only gently caress up whatever city it hits, and not much beyond that.
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Jun 1, 2018 06:19
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Since we're wildly speculating at this point... I bet a nuclear bomb will be used to put down a domestic rebellion before one is used in an interstate conflict.
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Jun 1, 2018 06:37
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qkkl posted:Nukes are actually stupidly powerful. North Korea with several hundred tactical nukes would easily defeat the entire US military if the US wasn't allowed to use nukes of their own. qkkl posted:Also a side note about nukes. It only takes one very big thermonuclear bomb to wipe out all life on earth if it's made to maximize nuclear fallout. An unhinged, suicidal dictator with one nuke could very cheaply make that one nuke unimaginably powerful by just adding cheap lithium deuturide fuel so it would act as a doomsday device. lmao usually clancychat sticks to the north korea thread
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Jun 1, 2018 07:57
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Herstory Begins Now posted:Since we're wildly speculating at this point... I bet a nuclear bomb will be used to put down a domestic rebellion before one is used in an interstate conflict.
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Jun 1, 2018 09:14
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https://twitter.com/fqadi/status/1002320839222747142?s=20 Basically no reporting on this, so it could be really small scale. Still noteworthy.
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Jun 1, 2018 09:22
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Good to see the regime has finally trained troops on anti-atgm tactics wait not yet https://twitter.com/QalaatAlMudiq/s..._2_groups_of%2F nsfl New system too, probably from the Turks.
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Jun 1, 2018 13:53
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Fagot is an interesting Twitter hashtag. I got missiles, concert music, and findom in the first five results.
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Jun 1, 2018 14:19
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Vincent Van Goatse posted:Fagot is an interesting Twitter hashtag. I got missiles, concert music, and findom in the first five results. That's weird because NATO designators for missiles start with S (Satan, Scud, etc) Fagot (because NATO fighter names are F words - foxbat, fishbed, fulcrum) was a MiG jet fighter from the Korean war, the MiG-15. I doubt the SyAF has any of those (lol p sure they have some fishbeds and maybe fulcrums?) but idk maybe the North Koreans do.
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Jun 1, 2018 14:36
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I should've mentioned the most shocking part of the hashtag results were no pictures of MiGs.
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Jun 1, 2018 14:38
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Like I can get why the rest showed up, but missiles and no Migs is a little weird even if it's twitter.
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Jun 1, 2018 14:41
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FAUXTON posted:That's weird because NATO designators for missiles start with S (Satan, Scud, etc)
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Jun 1, 2018 14:41
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HorrificExistence posted:Good to see the regime has finally trained troops on anti-atgm tactics The Relublic and allies just have to use a more intense bombing campaign to smoke out the Wahabis now. Btw I seee turkeys economy is having fun. Good times.
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Jun 1, 2018 14:59
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Crowsbeak posted:Btw I seee turkeys economy is having fun. Good times. There's nothing to be concerned about, Trump is working hard to prop up the Lira by smashing confidence in the Dollar, Euro, Peso and whatever Canada uses for money
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Jun 1, 2018 15:16
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Rent-A-Cop posted:9K111 Fagot is the Russian designation for what NATO calls the AT-4 Spigot. This is dating me but I really really wish I could find that old JeffK image macro with the MiG-15.
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Jun 1, 2018 15:30
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Rent-A-Cop posted:9K111 Fagot is the Russian designation for what NATO calls the AT-4 Spigot. I didn't know that, thanks
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Jun 1, 2018 15:49
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It is pretty amusing when you see people bang the drum of anti-nuke proliferation as we happily aid sauds and israelis chop up any country without them that we dislike. I legit hope Iran really does have nukes.
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Jun 1, 2018 16:40
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Neurolimal posted:It is pretty amusing when you see people bang the drum of anti-nuke proliferation as we happily aid sauds and israelis chop up any country without them that we dislike. It will probably be the only thing that will keep them from losing easily between a quarter to half a million of their people in a successful defensive war.
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Jun 1, 2018 18:39
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I admit I find it surprising and somewhat odd to see how much importance is placed on defeating Sunni Islamic extremism by some quarters of the leftist political milieu. It's an interesting convergence in priorities between them and much of the American security establishment, some people almost seem to have adopted the language and priorities of the Bush administration.
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Jun 1, 2018 21:41
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Squalid posted:I admit I find it surprising and somewhat odd to see how much importance is placed on defeating Sunni Islamic extremism by some quarters of the leftist political milieu. It's an interesting convergence in priorities between them and much of the American security establishment, some people almost seem to have adopted the language and priorities of the Bush administration. Oh lol. Why might we want to crush Wahabism which has been used to crush people liberation struggles by the USA and its allies 
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Jun 1, 2018 22:04
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Squalid posted:I admit I find it surprising and somewhat odd to see how much importance is placed on defeating Sunni Islamic extremism by some quarters of the leftist political milieu. It's an interesting convergence in priorities between them and much of the American security establishment, some people almost seem to have adopted the language and priorities of the Bush administration. Religious extremism = woke now
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Jun 1, 2018 22:08
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Squalid posted:I admit I find it surprising and somewhat odd to see how much importance is placed on defeating Sunni Islamic extremism by some quarters of the leftist political milieu. It's an interesting convergence in priorities between them and much of the American security establishment, some people almost seem to have adopted the language and priorities of the Bush administration. Yeah, it's weird isn't it?! Mention Al Qaeda or use the magic words like Salafism and Wahhabism and suddenly gee golly those 'secular' strongmen like Assad are the only things standing between civilization and barbarity. khwarezm fucked around with this message at 22:26 on Jun 1, 2018 |
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Jun 1, 2018 22:24
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khwarezm posted:Yeah, it's weird isn't it?! Mention Al Qaeda or use the magic words like Salafism and Wahhabism and suddenly gee golly those 'secular' strongmen like Assad are the only things standing between civilization and barbarity. Well, they are. Assad has been facing a existential threat from foreign wahabi backed groups. It is good he is crushing them for the security of Syria.
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Jun 1, 2018 22:34
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Crowsbeak posted:Well, they are. Assad has been facing a existential threat from foreign wahabi backed groups. It is good he is crushing them for the security of Syria. Heh, I just want to you to know that you are human garbage who cheer-leads death and destruction because you absorbed all of the worst ideas about scary Muslims since 9/11 but don't have the balls to admit it or recognize that the last fifty loving years tells us that bombing militant Islamic groups into the ground never actually gets rid of them and they just come back again later because bombing them into the ground doesn't get rid of the socio-political factors that makes them attractive in the first place.
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Jun 1, 2018 22:39
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khwarezm posted:Heh, I just want to you to know that you are human garbage who cheer-leads death and destruction because you absorbed all of the worst ideas about scary Muslims since 9/11 but don't have the balls to admit it or recognize that the last fifty loving years tells us that bombing militant Islamic groups into the ground never actually gets rid of them and they just come back again later because bombing them into the ground doesn't get rid of the socio-political factors that makes them attractive in the first place. Umm, Hafez brought quite abit of stability to Syria by doing exactly what your complaining about. Now there certainly could be efforts made to improve Syria, but that cannot be done under Wahhabi militants. Even if they're the bestest of friends of America.
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Jun 1, 2018 23:12
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Only the PYD can legitimately rule Syria, because no non-socialist government is legitimate.
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Jun 1, 2018 23:39
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Panzeh posted:Only the PYD can legitimately rule Syria, because no non-socialist government is legitimate. I mean this is true, but first the Wahhabi menace must be eliminated.
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Jun 1, 2018 23:42
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Crowsbeak posted:Oh lol. Why might we want to crush Wahabism which has been used to crush people liberation struggles by the USA and its allies Well it's not really surprising everybody wants to see takfiri salafists defeated. It is an interesting discursive shift however. I mean I expect the left emphasize the importance of building socialism rather than just being against Islamism. I assume this logic is derived from the fact that neither Assad's Syria nor Gadafi's Libya were socialist states in any convincing sense, both states having an Arab Nationalist ideology overlying a praetorian state. The framing of Wahabism as a tool of the west I've seen pushed hard in Russian media outlets, although it doesn't make much sense. Militant Islamists are a threat to virtually every government in North Africa and the Middle East. Targeting Libya, Algeria, and Egypt since the 1990s, Somalia Iraq, and Yemen since 2003, and Syria since 2011. America has various ignored these conflicts (Algeria), come down hard against Islamists (Yemen before the Saudi invasion, Iraq), and made uneasy common cause with them against other enemies (Syria, Yemen after the Saudi invasion). When you say people's liberation struggles, I assume you mean the Soviet-Afghan War. So far as people's war go it's a pretty shabby example. I wonder if Hamas's struggle against Israel counts? They're not takfiris at least, though with strong historical ties to the Egyptian Muslim Brotherhood I wonder how different they really are ideologically from other modern militant Sunni organizations.
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Jun 1, 2018 23:56
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Squalid posted:Well it's not really surprising everybody wants to see takfiri salafists defeated. It is an interesting discursive shift however. I mean I expect the left emphasize the importance of building socialism rather than just being against Islamism. I assume this logic is derived from the fact that neither Assad's Syria nor Gadafi's Libya were socialist states in any convincing sense, both states having an Arab Nationalist ideology overlying a praetorian state. Really it's in everyone's interest to crush Wahabis? Then why did the US government arm Wahabis in both Syria and Libya? . When I say peoples liberation struggles I of course mean the Syrian Peoples struggle to retake Golan, the Afghanis struggle to destroy the vile system that the Saudis sought to perpetuate in the 80s. https://www.jacobinmag.com/2018/05/afghanistan-saur-revolution-communists-soviet-intervention Crowsbeak fucked around with this message at 00:47 on Jun 2, 2018 |
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Jun 2, 2018 00:02
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Crowsbeak posted:I mean this is true, but first the Wahhabi menace must be eliminated. What about the entrenched kleptocratic mafia aristrocracy. That seems pretty super bad for socialism.
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Jun 2, 2018 00:49
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Grape posted:What about the entrenched kleptocratic mafia aristrocracy. That seems pretty super bad for socialism. Yes, the Saudi Monarchy is horrible. Thanks for mentioning that.
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Jun 2, 2018 00:55
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Crowsbeak posted:Umm, Hafez brought quite abit of stability to Syria by doing exactly what your complaining about. Yeah leveling Hama was great, Syria has enjoyed nonstop stability because Hafez wasn't afraid to take the gloves off. Maybe if the USA could learn from his example they would achieve similar results in Afghanistan
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Jun 2, 2018 01:26
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Crowsbeak posted:Yes, the Saudi Monarchy is horrible. Thanks for mentioning that. Actually I was talking about Syria, Saudi Arabia is also that thing but is apparently a different country than Syria. Grape fucked around with this message at 01:31 on Jun 2, 2018 |
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Jun 2, 2018 01:29
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But what about your negroes? Squalid, Ghaddfi's Libya was actually pretty good for a lot of people, and run more fairly and equitably than Syria. Their oil wealth was being pushed into projects like the GMMR, electrification, and public education. Gender equality was at a level to be praised, perhaps at a detriment to state stability. The states economic largess probably contributed to people feeling like the deserved personal freedoms just as much. They were right. Unfortunately it wasn't Ghadaffi burning the country to the ground for all of the arguments against him, it was the rebels and it was NATO. Defending the intervention in hindsight is unconscionable on any level. At the time it was blatantly obvious what was going on. We also have as close to an admission of guilt with regards to the goals of the war, and the lies and hyperbole what were used to sell it. As to people being more anti-Sunni than anti-Shia on the left? Shia haven't committed mass "terrorist" attacks in the west, it has been Sunni extremists. No Lion Assad or whatever BS required.
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Jun 2, 2018 01:56
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Coldwar timewarp posted:But what about your negroes? Yep, that's pretty much it. Grape posted:Actually I was talking about Syria, Saudi Arabia is also that thing but is apparently a different country than Syria. Flavahbeast posted:Yeah leveling Hama was great, Syria has enjoyed nonstop stability because Hafez wasn't afraid to take the gloves off. Well for over a generation it did.While I will say frankly Assad hosed up. I'm not therefore going to back some bs intervention argument especially when his enemies are people who would be worse then the Taliban.
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Jun 2, 2018 02:01
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Coldwar timewarp posted:The states economic largess probably contributed to people feeling like the deserved personal freedoms just as much. They were right. Unfortunately it wasn't Ghadaffi burning the country to the ground for all of the arguments against him, it was the rebels and it was NATO. So the people were in the right to want more rights and not a dictatorship, but they are also the bads who burned down the country because they rebelled to achieve this end? Am I parsing this correctly? btw your timeline is all hosed up. The uprising turned armed rebellion because Gaddafi straight up full on lethally cracked down on the protestors. Libyans had been doing the Egypt/Tunisia thing, and unlike Ben Ali or even Mubarak, Gaddafi pretty much decided to go full aggro. That worked nearer the capital at first, but in the east it didn't and just like in Syria it turns out that if you go crazy violent on protests you can turn them into rebel armies. All of this happened before NATO got involved. The magical western fairy was not required to sprinkle fairy dust on the third world people for them to start moving and interacting and doing things to each-other. So yeah, having a hard time seeing Gaddafi's innocence in regards to the "having a war" thing.
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Jun 2, 2018 02:17
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Crowsbeak posted:Find me a Socialist group that could successfully get the majority of Syrians behind it and destroy the Wahabi that threaten to destroy the country then. So you're advocating any ends justifying the means as long as someone destroys the religious terrorists? That seems kind of bad and dumb. quote:Also why isn't Saudi Arabia a threat to Socialism? Why isn't Assad?
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Jun 2, 2018 02:23
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Grape posted:So you're advocating any ends justifying the means as long as someone destroys the religious terrorists? That seems kind of bad and dumb. When said religious terrorists are also a threat to the world? Yes. Oh btw they're also threats to both a regime that does everything for it's people. Which Gadaffi's did, and the PYD. Not that you care. Grape posted:
 You were saying? Crowsbeak fucked around with this message at 02:38 on Jun 2, 2018 |
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Jun 2, 2018 02:28
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Crowsbeak posted:When said religious terrorists are also a threat to the world? Yes. Oh btw they're also threats to both a regime that does everything for it's people. Which Gadaffi's did, and the PYD. Not that you care. Murdering 400 innocent Sunni men women and children in Baniyas and Bayda to prop up a literal fascist totalitarian police state that allows the ruling aristocracy to loot the country with neoliberalism is my kind of Marxist praxis.
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Jun 2, 2018 02:55
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