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Glad we’re in the ‘sectarian murder of people in one of the two largest denominations of Islam is good, actually’ section of the thread.
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Jun 2, 2018 14:45
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Volkerball posted:Yeah, like how we're not fascists. "Not Fascist" Just like to invade countries on the flimsiest of pretenses.
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Jun 2, 2018 16:16
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Crowsbeak posted:"Not Fascist" Just like to invade countries on the flimsiest of pretenses. So, uhhh, like Saddam did basically throughout his entire career? Aside from facists not having a monopoly on invading places - like Assad, Saddam was the leader of a Baathist party. You know, the National Socialist, ethnocentrist Arab parties founded back when similar parties were still a big happening thing in Europe? The ones with the snappy uniforms, goose-stepping, and a strongman dictator fostering a personality cult? Gassing minorities who get upset at being disappeared by the secret police ring any bells? One would think somebody would be smart enough not to call others "facist" when arguing in favor of those guys.
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Jun 2, 2018 17:33
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Warbadger posted:So, uhhh, like Saddam did basically throughout his entire career? Explain why with America's track record any country in the middle east should be invaded. It's funny how none of the liberals here can do that.
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Jun 2, 2018 17:54
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Crowsbeak posted:Explain why with America's track record any country in the middle east should be invaded. It's funny how none of the liberals here can do that. We rescued poor kuwait
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Jun 2, 2018 18:03
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Crowsbeak posted:Explain why with America's track record any country in the middle east should be invaded. It's funny how none of the liberals here can do that. Experience? I mean with the exception of Russia, not many countries have
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Jun 2, 2018 18:06
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Kawasaki Nun posted:We rescued poor kuwait How did that involve the overthrow of another countries leader? Libluini posted:Experience? I mean with the exception of Russia, not many countries have Good to know that liberals are actually quite willing to engage in fascist tactics as long as they feel like they are enlightening people/
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Jun 2, 2018 18:11
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Crowsbeak posted:Explain why with America's track record any country in the middle east should be invaded. It's funny how none of the liberals here can do that. Explain what this has to do with calling out the irony of you calling anybody facist while you argue in support of actual, leader of self-styled facist party, facists. Warbadger fucked around with this message at 18:26 on Jun 2, 2018 |
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Jun 2, 2018 18:16
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Warbadger posted:Explain what this has to do with calling out the irony of you calling anybody facist while you argue in support of actual, leader of self-styled facist party, facists. I wasn't actually calling anyone fascist.I was just pointing out that to claim those who stood against America invading are fascist have a funny definition.
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Jun 2, 2018 18:28
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It's spelled "fascist" with an s in front of the c. It's from the Latin word "fasces" which is a bundle of sticks or rods tied together. The linguistic implication is that people are stronger united than divided, which is pretty hilarious when you look at fascist policy.
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Jun 2, 2018 18:32
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Sergg posted:It's spelled "fascist" with an s in front of the c. It's from the Latin word "fasces" which is a bundle of sticks or rods tied together. The linguistic implication is that people are stronger united than divided, which is pretty hilarious when you look at fascist policy. So can you tell me why we should invade foreign countries with the current record the USA has.
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Jun 2, 2018 18:34
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Crowsbeak posted:So can you tell me why we should invade foreign countries with the current record the USA has. I cannot so I won't. Frankly I'm sick of the slaughter and our government will eventually bankrupt itself through a combination of unsustainable military spending and tax cuts.
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Jun 2, 2018 18:44
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Crowsbeak posted:Good to know that liberals are actually quite willing to engage in fascist tactics as long as they feel like they are enlightening people/ I don't know if I would call Russians and Americans both liberals buddy, you'd have to live in Dystopia City, Hell Circle 9, to see Nutsomericans and Fascistonians both as "liberal". Well, maybe in an economical sense. Modern day Russia is a lot more laissez-faire when compared to the Soviet Union, after all.
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Jun 2, 2018 19:25
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Boy it must be a slow day in the Middle East.
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Jun 2, 2018 19:37
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Shocking revelation: Saddam sucked but that doesn’t mean Americans should high-five and cheer over what we did to/in Iraq.
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Jun 2, 2018 19:52
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Count Roland posted:Boy it must be a slow day in the Middle East. The Saudis are threatening Qatar. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...t-idUSKCN1IY0IW Chances of them doing anything? I think my magic eight ball said, "Outlook not so good".
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Jun 2, 2018 19:53
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Crowsbeak posted:The Saudis are threatening Qatar. Well since their blockade is a year old now I'd say the chances of them doing something are really rather good.
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Jun 2, 2018 19:58
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Count Roland posted:Well since their blockade is a year old now I'd say the chances of them doing something are really rather good. What has the blockade done though?
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Jun 2, 2018 20:01
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mlmp08 posted:Shocking revelation: Saddam sucked but that doesn’t mean Americans should high-five and cheer over what we did to/in Iraq. You're not allowed to have reasonable opinions like this ITT. You absolutely have to be a deranged shrieking partisan for one side or the other. Fortunately there's approximately 7 billion sides at the moment so that leaves you with a lot of options.
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Jun 2, 2018 20:46
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Sergg posted:I interrupt our regularly scheduled Hypothetical Moral Argument About Syria In Ideal Conditions 5 Years Ago to bring you some current news: Hmm, I actually think that it would be in the US's best interest if Qatar did get the S-400 systems in order keep the oil in separate hands, so I don't see them approving of any Saudi military action against Qatar. The one thing that could change their minds is if Qatar started importing IRBMs from Iran, but in that case I still think the US would prefer a regime change rather then let SA gain control of even more oil.
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Jun 2, 2018 20:53
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Haftar and the most important leaders of other Libyan factions have agreed to hold parliamentary elections in December and take steps towards unifying state institutions. Nobodies sure yet if the elections can be fair or if anyone is actually serious, the agreement is basically just a handshake. There's sure to be shenanigans but maybe it will at least break the current state of political deadlock.
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Jun 2, 2018 21:56
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Vincent Van Goatse posted:You're not allowed to have reasonable opinions like this ITT. You absolutely have to be a deranged shrieking partisan for one side or the other. Fortunately there's approximately 7 billion sides at the moment so that leaves you with a lot of options. Hasn't "people like Saddam (or Assad or Ghaddafi or whatever) are obviously bad, but that doesn't mean that American military intervention is a good idea" been the main "other side" of this argument for pretty much the entire time, with the exception of maybe one or two actually pro-Assad people? I repeatedly see folks dishonestly casting any opposition to intervention as a pro-dictator position, but it's pretty clear to anyone without morally questionable ulterior motives that hardly anyone actually feels that way.
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Jun 2, 2018 21:57
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Ytlaya posted:Hasn't "people like Saddam (or Assad or Ghaddafi or whatever) are obviously bad, but that doesn't mean that American military intervention is a good idea" been the main "other side" of this argument for pretty much the entire time, with the exception of maybe one or two actually pro-Assad people? I repeatedly see folks dishonestly casting any opposition to intervention as a pro-dictator position, but it's pretty clear to anyone without morally questionable ulterior motives that hardly anyone actually feels that way. Sorry that arguing with the person who claims up be a leftist and very clearly said Saddam "kept the peace" offended you ytlaya. I'll make sure to give such people a pass in the future so as to not make you think your ideological clique is being unfairly targeted by fake news. Volkerball fucked around with this message at 22:53 on Jun 2, 2018 |
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Jun 2, 2018 22:34
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Crowsbeak posted:Yes, knocking over a guy who kept the peace was a great move right..... This is the part where he suggested Iraq was bad because the fascist dictator who "kept the peace" was deposed.
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Jun 2, 2018 22:37
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Ytlaya posted:Hasn't "people like Saddam (or Assad or Ghaddafi or whatever) are obviously bad, but that doesn't mean that American military intervention is a good idea" been the main "other side" of this argument for pretty much the entire time, with the exception of maybe one or two actually pro-Assad people? I repeatedly see folks dishonestly casting any opposition to intervention as a pro-dictator position, but it's pretty clear to anyone without morally questionable ulterior motives that hardly anyone actually feels that way. Crowsbeak is openly actually one of those pro-Assad people who at best seems to hold a 'I don't like him, but he gets the job done' kind of position, though I haven't ever seen him say something like the first part yet. People have been arguing with him since he got here because he won't shut up about it, what do you want?
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Jun 2, 2018 22:47
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Squalid posted:Haftar and the most important leaders of other Libyan factions have agreed to hold parliamentary elections in December and take steps towards unifying state institutions. Nobodies sure yet if the elections can be fair or if anyone is actually serious, the agreement is basically just a handshake. There's sure to be shenanigans but maybe it will at least break the current state of political deadlock. Let's see if they stop attacking those who seek to restore Libya to Gadaffism. khwarezm posted:Crowsbeak is openly actually one of those pro-Assad people who at best seems to hold a 'I don't like him, but he gets the job done' kind of position, though I haven't ever seen him say something like the first part yet. People have been arguing with him since he got here because he won't shut up about it, what do you want? On the Iraq situation, the fact we made the place statistically worse, as well as in the case of Libya, should make it clear why we should condemn such actions.
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Jun 2, 2018 23:01
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So ignoring the handful of fascist-supporting tankies ITT, what's the general take on the ongoing protests in Jordan? Is it genuine popular unrest at a government imposing taxes without going far enough to eliminate corruption and tax avoidance by the rich? Is it one faction cynically exploiting general popular dissent to expand their own position? All I have to go on right now is NPR and random livestreams out of Jordan, so I know gently caress all.
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Jun 2, 2018 23:05
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Cugel the Clever posted:So ignoring the handful of fascist-supporting tankies ITT, what's the general take on the ongoing protests in Jordan? Is it genuine popular unrest at a government imposing taxes without going far enough to eliminate corruption and tax avoidance by the rich? Is it one faction cynically exploiting general popular dissent to expand their own position? Well, one has to remember that that monarchy like a certain non Arab Monarchy forty years ago does derive it's continual existence from the backing of foreign powers. Remember how that ended.
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Jun 2, 2018 23:09
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Crowsbeak posted:Basically till the Wahabi, and their foreign backers are eradicated I want the USA and our SDF allies to generally keep to eastern Syria. Even when this is finished, I would greatly prefer America not invade, and instead develop a plan with all forces concerned. (Russian, Iran, SAR, YPD/SDF) can find agreeable and allow for something less autocratic than came before. I wasn't talking to you, but if making things statistically worse for the people of these countries actually concerns you then maybe you should stop and read this in between beating one off for Assad when it comes to the war that he more personal responsibility for than any other person on the planet. khwarezm fucked around with this message at 23:19 on Jun 2, 2018 |
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Jun 2, 2018 23:17
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Cugel the Clever posted:So ignoring the handful of fascist-supporting tankies ITT, what's the general take on the ongoing protests in Jordan? Is it genuine popular unrest at a government imposing taxes without going far enough to eliminate corruption and tax avoidance by the rich? Is it one faction cynically exploiting general popular dissent to expand their own position? There's not a whole lot of details coming out. If it continues on in the coming weeks we'll start seeing an activist community getting the word out. I think it's genuine though. Jordan has been continually eroding the social safety net for the last several months at the least. I've seen calls for the prime minister to be sacked, but I haven't seen any protests that seemed really revolutionary, at least not yet.
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Jun 2, 2018 23:19
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khwarezm posted:I wasn't talking to you, but if making things statistically worse for the people of these countries actually concerns you then maybe you should stop and read this in between beating one off for Assad when it comes to the war that he more personal responsibility for than any other person on the planet: See but if the rebellion never happened everything would be better People who are seriously Pro Assad think that he is “mostly” blameless and that a quick leveling of a city like his father did would of made everyone respect him. Therefore everyone would be happy to be back under the yoke. I don’t think people who peddle those arguments realize where that line of thought ends up, and that they’d very likely be killed or jailed arbitrarily if other countries followed that M.O.
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Jun 2, 2018 23:23
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https://twitter.com/LawkGhafuri/status/1003040468190531585?s=20 Ghiath Matar was tortured to death and had his mutilated body dumped on his pregnant wife's doorstep for doing this in Syria.
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Jun 2, 2018 23:30
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Crowsbeak posted:Let's see if they stop attacking those who seek to restore Libya to Gadaffism. You mean Haftar? His brand of secular nationalism built around a strongman is probably the closest of any consequential political group in Libya gets to "Gadaffism," though I'm not sure what specifically you think that means. Ideologically he was an Arab Nationalist in Nasser's mold, if rather more erratic. In terms of policy this means promoting "socialism," while simultaneously repressing Marxists. They tended to reject class struggle while promoting nationalization of industry as a means of centralizing authority and power while increasing economic growth. Haftar is closely aligned with Sisi and the UAE, and has aggressively sought support from both Russia and the West. He tends to take generic secular strong-man positions, and though besides being against democracy I'm not sure where he stands on many issues like decentralization.
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Jun 2, 2018 23:37
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Crowsbeak posted:Let's see if they stop attacking those who seek to restore Libya to Gadaffism. Hell, if Trump didn't have a bug up his rear end about the US leaving Syria, we'd probably just end up sitting there for the next 10 years, and it's very possible we still might depending on who's babysitting Trump when his 6 month ultimatum comes around.
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Jun 3, 2018 01:09
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Saladin Rising posted:I like that the US presence in SDF territory is mentioned and then specifically excluded when talking about the US potentially "invading" Syria. It's not even unique to this post, it's fairly common that discussion/articles about US intervention in Syria treats the term "intervention" specifically as "Intervention against Assad". The part where the US already intervened four years ago and where we're continuing to build a bunch of bases are only mentioned in passing, if at all. Frankly we are invaders, but being that we're protecting Socialists who are under threat from a actual expansionist fascist like Erdogan means that for the moment I am fine with the uSA keeping watch.
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Jun 3, 2018 01:29
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Crowsbeak posted:Frankly we are invaders, but being that we're protecting Socialists who are under threat from a actual expansionist fascist like Erdogan means that for the moment I am fine with the uSA keeping watch. Invaders according to the Assad government, ISIS, and sometimes Turkey. In each case proportional fucks are given as to their own desire to invade at any given time - or to continue to occupy in ISIS's case. Not invaders according to those who currently govern Eastern Syria, who invited the help. Civil wars are fun like that. Warbadger fucked around with this message at 02:17 on Jun 3, 2018 |
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Jun 3, 2018 02:13
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This could get interesting. https://twitter.com/7iber/status/1003026607815168001
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Jun 3, 2018 02:49
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Crowsbeak posted:This could get interesting. Some of us do not read arabic. This Jordan?
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Jun 3, 2018 02:57
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Crowsbeak posted:Well, one has to remember that that monarchy like a certain non Arab Monarchy forty years ago does derive it's continual existence from the backing of foreign powers. Remember how that ended. Bro I thought you were endlessly tolerant of foreign intervention if it was on the side of the established government, and it was only perverse imperialism if the foreigners were backing rebel groups? What is this inconsistency???
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Jun 3, 2018 02:59
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Warbadger posted:Invaders according to the Assad government, ISIS, and sometimes Turkey. In each case proportional fucks are given as to their own desire to invade at any given time - or to continue to occupy in ISIS's case. Specifically prompting them to drive for the oil fields still kind of gave away the game imo.
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Jun 3, 2018 03:03
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