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jeeves posted:California has a major problem with propositions. Propostions are terrible. Full stop. Because they can't be amended like laws can. They are superior to the Legislature. Thus, you are stuck with the lovely ones like Prop 13 forever.
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Jun 1, 2018 19:21
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Theoretically, could we have a proposition to let the legislature amend propositions?
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Jun 1, 2018 19:32
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I think it’s nice having a little direct democracy especially with all the incrementalists in the Democratic Party holding up poo poo like UHC but the amount of props and the content are getting out of hand. That one symbolic prop from the 2016 election was especially dumb
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Jun 1, 2018 19:42
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CopperHound posted:Theoretically, could we have a proposition to let the legislature amend propositions? That's gonna piss off the propositions genie locked up in the capitol building's basement, but we should try it.
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Jun 1, 2018 19:48
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It’s looking more likely that two republicans are going to move forward in the 48th because of the jungle primary and 50 dumbass democrats taking too long to drop out (along with one of the last two not taking one for the team). It’s incredible to me that the fact that Rohrabacher is so lovely is actually helping keeping a Democrat off the ballot in November.
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Jun 1, 2018 20:41
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jeeves posted:California has a major problem with propositions. Someday we will be ruled by advanced AI's that use captchas that ask users to identify good policies instead of street signs.
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Jun 1, 2018 20:51
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Proposition 13 was genius levels of evil. It will never ever die.
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Jun 1, 2018 20:54
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Grand Prize Winner posted:ranked-choice is simple: pick the candidate you want the most for 1, the candidate you want the second most for 2, then rank the rest by how funny their names are, 3-whatever Ranked choice can be gamed as well. That's how Jean Quan upset Perata for Oakland Mayor, even though she was fairly unpopular at the time. https://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/12/us/politics/12bcvoting.html
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Jun 1, 2018 21:15
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Aiming to be number 2 doesn't sound like gaming as system to me, it sounds like being moderate. Would allow people to rank as many (or as few) as they want reduce the benefit of just running on the 'I'm not the guy you don't like' platform? I really like the idea of voting my Ideological vote as number 1 while not throwing my vote away. CopperHound fucked around with this message at 21:41 on Jun 1, 2018 |
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Jun 1, 2018 21:38
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predicto posted:There are so many other factors, just with regards to Silicon Valley. For example, California is one of the only states that has always prohibited the imposition of non-compete agreements on employees. That is the factor that allows all those tech people to constantly jump from job to startup to job to startus, and keeps the whole innovation and tech spread churning along. Could you give more examples?
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Jun 1, 2018 21:40
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CopperHound posted:Aiming to be number 2 doesn't sound like gaming as system to me, it sounds like being moderate. Would allow people to rank as many (or as few) as they want reduce the benefit of just running on the 'I'm not the guy you don't like' platform? Yeah, sounds like it worked absolutely as intended and Perata appealed strongly to a bunch of people, but less enthusiastic support beyond that fell off a cliff.
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Jun 1, 2018 22:30
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The UC system is explicitly why there are two national labs in the bay area which furthered the snowball of the bay area as a center of research and development. Also it was the California gold rush that threatened to destroy the SF bay with hydraulic mining until California stopped it with one of the earliest environmental laws.
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Jun 1, 2018 22:37
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jeeves posted:California has a major problem with propositions. I'd still probably rather be ruled by the ignorant majority than the corrupt minority.
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Jun 1, 2018 22:43
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silence_kit posted:Could you give more examples? I can only speak to my experiences as a privileged tech rear end in a top hat, but some ways I’ve benefited: PTO being considered deferred compensation that must be paid out no matter what help ease the burden of a layoff years ago, as did an unemployment benefits system that wasn’t adversarial. A few years later, the state’s short term disability system also not being adversarial was another huge load off my mind. I could only imagine how much less stressful life would be under a system of government-funded healthcare. Also, permanent vote by mail status has allowed me, a privileged worker who could take off to vote, to be much more engaged in elections. Less directly, the state’s environmental laws make for great weather and clean air, when it’s not on fire, anyway. And just speaking personally, it’s really cool to be able to log off and leave all the culture war bullshit aside, for the most part, as the state picked its side years ago.
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Jun 2, 2018 03:00
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Kobayashi posted:Also, permanent vote by mail status has allowed me, a privileged worker who could take off to vote, to be much more engaged in elections. Less directly, the state’s environmental laws make for great weather and clean air, when it’s not on fire, anyway. And just speaking personally, it’s really cool to be able to log off and leave all the culture war bullshit aside, for the most part, as the state picked its side years ago. Ahahaha, if only. If you spend any time on NextDoor you'll find out that the people immediately surrounding you aren't as on your side as you think.
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Jun 2, 2018 08:25
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Cup Runneth Over posted:Ahahaha, if only. If you spend any time on NextDoor you'll find out that the people immediately surrounding you aren't as on your side as you think. Yeah, I quit NextDoor because it was too racist for me, but at least people generally know to shut their dumb mouths in public. silence_kit posted:Could you give more examples? The state’s aggressive non-discrimination laws around LGBT issues, as well as its general pro-immigrant stance (relevant to how the children of immigrants are treated and the availability of immigrant communities) makes living in CA generally desirable to highly-skilled tech workers who would benefit personally from those policies. Also, in certain places, California has decent public schools (as well as very good community colleges and the UC system for four-year colleges, which is significantly cheaper for in-state residents). That’s another factor highly-skilled workers with families (or who plan on starting families) consider when deciding where to move. All of this combined gives CA (and Bay Area specifically, for tech) companies a competitive advantage when recruiting non-local talent, though it’s recently been getting offset somewhat by the housing crisis driving people out of state to other tech hubs in Colorado or Seattle as they get priced out. Some of these policies can drive away highly-skilled conservative or right-wing tech workers, so there’s a trade-off being made, I suppose.
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Jun 2, 2018 08:49
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mike- posted:It’s looking more likely that two republicans are going to move forward in the 48th because of the jungle primary and 50 dumbass democrats taking too long to drop out (along with one of the last two not taking one for the team). Yeah, as a voter in the 48th, I'm irritated. There was the glimmer of a possibility of getting Rohrabacher the hell out, but the Democrats just could not get their poo poo together. Will not be surprised at all if the top two are Rohrabacher and Baugh, though my vote's going to Rouda.
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Jun 2, 2018 08:53
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Colin Mockery posted:All of this combined gives CA (and Bay Area specifically, for tech) companies a competitive advantage when recruiting non-local talent, though it’s recently been getting offset somewhat by the housing crisis driving people out of state to other tech hubs in Colorado or Seattle as they get priced out. Similarly, companies put their tech jobs in the bay area because that's where all the skilled tech workers are. There's a depth and breadth of available technical talent here that you can't find anywhere else in the country (or the world, for that matter).
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Jun 2, 2018 09:32
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So where can I file a complaint that some weirdo named Arman Soltani has sent me two texts from random 844 numbers asking for my vote for governor, including one at 2:30 last night?
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Jun 2, 2018 15:20
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Cup Runneth Over posted:Ahahaha, if only. If you spend any time on NextDoor you'll find out that the people immediately surrounding you aren't as on your side as you think. Yes I know I can go online to get mad.
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Jun 2, 2018 16:03
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Some new poll strongly suggests Newsom vs. Cox for November. Hope to see Cox get crushed but I tend to think CA is redder than many believe. Still a long shot for Cox
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Jun 2, 2018 16:57
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CPColin posted:So where can I file a complaint that some weirdo named Arman Soltani has sent me two texts from random 844 numbers asking for my vote for governor, including one at 2:30 last night? Nowhere. The "do not call" legislation exempts political campaigns, conveniently enough. eta: Although asking the campaign to remove your number should be enough for them to do so, especially if they're texting you in the middle of the night.
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Jun 2, 2018 20:14
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They sent a third one from the number I replied to telling them to gently caress off.
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Jun 2, 2018 20:28
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Tell them every time they send another message you'll find 3 more friends to vote against their candidate. Or post to the candidate's/campaign's facebook page.
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Jun 2, 2018 20:59
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silence_kit posted:Could you give more examples? The California Aqueduct
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Jun 3, 2018 03:57
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The major tech hubs of SF/SV, NYC, Boston and Seattle are all very liberal and that's probably not a coincidence. My read is that most devs would rather have a middle class lifestyle in SF than a rich one in Cincinnati or Kansas City. Almost like communities that use taxes to invest in society produce many positive outcomes that people like.
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Jun 3, 2018 08:12
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That just get's into the "what is liberalism" argument that we have endlessly. They're liberal in that they support gay marriage and weed. They rarely, if ever, support liberal economic policies which is why there is so much NIMBYism and FYGMism
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Jun 3, 2018 08:14
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They're definitely further left socially than fiscally, but they're still left of center there from what I've seen. Granted I'm talking about your median techie, not exec types. Plus everyone knows the NIMBY-as-gently caress groups are mostly the bay area old guard, young-ish techies are mostly pro-housing, and so are the companies.
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Jun 3, 2018 08:48
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I think the worst part of the Proposition system is that every loving prop is a legislative constitutional amendment.
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Jun 3, 2018 16:15
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Tuxedo Gin posted:That just get's into the "what is liberalism" argument that we have endlessly. They're liberal in that they support gay marriage and weed. They rarely, if ever, support liberal economic policies which is why there is so much NIMBYism and FYGMism 98% of the NIMBYish are the people that bought houses in 1970 for 50,000 that are now worth 2m, not tech workers. They just built a ton of apartments near the caltrain station by me, and the people melting down over it on nextdoor are all the old people complaining it will change the culture of the neighborhood or block their views etc. I am not in tech, but since I live here most of my friends are, and I would argue it is more liberal or leftist than the local population as a whole. Sure you get dumb Rand lovers and bitcoin enthusiasts and stuff like that, but you will among nurses and teachers and every other profession that has more than 10 people. Tech definitely has flaws like all of the dumb startups trying to disrupt the broccoli market or whatever, but the goon hate of tech workers comes across as the financial equivalent of incels to me, more based on what they imagine a tech worker to be rather than anything real. Pain of Mind fucked around with this message at 17:15 on Jun 3, 2018 |
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Jun 3, 2018 17:10
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You are receiving this broadcast as a dream...We are transmitting from the year one nine... nine nine ...You are receiving this broadcast in order t
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Goons are always calling for the guillotine on anyone better off than themselves. I doubt most would be as strident as they are if they happened to be homeowners in the bay area.
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Jun 3, 2018 17:24
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Panfilo posted:Goons are always calling for the guillotine on anyone better off than themselves. I doubt most would be as strident as they are if they happened to be homeowners in the bay area. me, dumb: i hate having to pay $2k a month to live in a studio you, smart: ah, but imagine if you werent and instead someone else was paying YOU $2k a month to live in a studio. bet you wouldn't be complaining then
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Jun 3, 2018 17:33
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Panfilo posted:Goons are always calling for the guillotine on anyone better off than themselves. I doubt most would be as strident as they are if they happened to be homeowners in the bay area. I have no idea how well off you are but I still want to guillotine you Shear Modulus posted:me, dumb: i hate having to pay $2k a month to live in a studio me: the bourgeoisie is bad them: but what if you were part of the bourgeoisie?
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Jun 3, 2018 17:34
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Cup Runneth Over posted:me: the bourgeoisie is bad  people can't be trusted to self-guillotine, so all doorways should come quipped with auto guillotines, so anyone who gets too bougie gets what's comin to them
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Jun 3, 2018 17:39
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Rah! posted:
auto-guillotines? sounds like techbro poo poo. guillotine for you
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Jun 3, 2018 17:48
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Tuxedo Gin posted:That just get's into the "what is liberalism" argument that we have endlessly. They're liberal in that they support gay marriage and weed. They rarely, if ever, support liberal economic policies which is why there is so much NIMBYism and FYGMism Yes, please tell us more about these tech workers who voted for Prop 13 in 1978, Prop 60 in 1986, who spent the next 30 years after that blocking all possible development in the Bay Area, and who totally forced those poor landlords to charge $4,000 a month rent. Tech workers aren't blameless here, but you're ascribing the entirety of how lovely your average Californian is to a field of people who didn't get here until 20-30 years later. Next you'll be blaming your fever for you having the flu. quote:auto-guillotines? sounds like techbro poo poo. guillotine for you What if we can control it from an APP? :mindexplodes:
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Jun 3, 2018 18:10
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Pain of Mind posted:98% of the NIMBYish are the people that bought houses in 1970 for 50,000 that are now worth 2m, not tech workers. They just built a ton of apartments near the caltrain station by me, and the people melting down over it on nextdoor are all the old people complaining it will change the culture of the neighborhood or block their views etc. I am not in tech, but since I live here most of my friends are, and I would argue it is more liberal or leftist than the local population as a whole. Sure you get dumb Rand lovers and bitcoin enthusiasts and stuff like that, but you will among nurses and teachers and every other profession that has more than 10 people. Tech definitely has flaws like all of the dumb startups trying to disrupt the broccoli market or whatever, but the goon hate of tech workers comes across as the financial equivalent of incels to me, more based on what they imagine a tech worker to be rather than anything real. Yeah, a lot of the people who really are responsible for screwing up the housing market in California are just regular-ish middle class people who bought houses a long time ago when they were not exorbitantly priced or inherited them from their parents. I think it is hard for people to confront the idea that ordinary people like maybe some of their friends and family are responsible for the housing problems in CA and so tech people get the lions’ share of the blame.
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Jun 3, 2018 18:47
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My parents bought a house in San Diego twenty-five years ago and because it's near the ocean it's worth some ridiculous amount of money now. They're technically millionaires but that's simply because of the theoretical value of their house.
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Jun 3, 2018 19:30
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It's important to remember that high-tech, even defined in a very broad sense as software, computer tech/IT/semicondoctor, and biotech, constitutes roughly 15-20%% of the Bay Area's economy, and an even smaller percentage of the statewide economy. https://www.investopedia.com/articles/investing/011416/californias-economy-9-industries-driving-gdp-growth.asp Software is the most visible "techie" thing right now, but little can be wholly blamed on that sector alone. Financial services, business consulting, tourism, education, retail, entertainment, and manufacturing are all major parts of the bay area and statewide economies. Statewide we also have oil, shipping/logistics, defense/aerospace, and of course agriculture (although ag is only like 2-3%). The tables on pages five and six of this report, listing the fortune 500 companies and private $1B+ companies based in the bay area, is useful: http://newmarkrealtycapital.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/BA-Economic-Engine-2017.pdf Lots of big tech companies on there like Apple, Google, Intel, Air BnB, Uber, etc. but also lots of companies that people tend to kind of forget, like Chevron, McKesson, Gap, Visa, and PG&E. ABAG's economic profile (https://abag.ca.gov/planning/pdfs/CEDS%20Profile%20&%20SWOT.pdf) shows in Part V on page 21, "Industry Concentration and Specialization," that business services, education, and hospitality & tourism are key focus areas of the bay area's economy - that is, these sectors (along with tech) have a higher concentration here than in the average metropolitan area. quote:The Bay Area has several industry concentrations with strong “location quotients." The information sector has more than twice the employment than would be expected given the sector’s role in the national economy. Any attempt to explain the success of the Bay Area's economy, but which ignores the other sectors, is necessarily incomplete and often wildly misleading.
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Jun 3, 2018 19:43
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San Francisco is also a huge import-export center and has been since it was founded. By virtue of history and geography it's one of the most important trade ports on the planet. Also up until a couple decades ago it had a big military presence because of the Army base at the Presidio and the Navy at Mare Island and Alameda.
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Jun 3, 2018 19:53
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