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alrighty time for some realpolitik. There are 12 total votes in the congress, 6 from the 3 great powers, one each for all 6 of the secondary ones. My question becomes are there enough votes to pass A? Would Morocco and Russia be willing to basically elevate france-england to great power status to rival them? Morocco has supported France in the past sure, but there's a difference between teaming up to wreck Al-Andalus or the Tirruni, and giving the the land to dominate most of western europe. Similarly, Russia considers itself the big dog in Europe and probably doesn't want anyone to challenge that. That would imply that all 3 major powers would vote B, meaning that the best we could manage is a 6-6 tie, assuming that all of the secondary powers voted with us, which feels unlikely. Hate doing it, but I think the best answer here is C. We don't want to piss off France, but I'm not sure the collation is there to get A passed.
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Jun 6, 2018 19:19
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A but only if the relation boost with France can actually help us getting all of Iberia
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Jun 6, 2018 19:19
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A As mentioned before, we ought to ally with France. Plus doing this might help us get our Iberian land back.
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Jun 6, 2018 19:19
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A BIG
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Jun 6, 2018 19:20
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A I doubt A will win, so I think we should try and get on France's Good SideSlothfulCobra posted:Normally I'm reflexively anti-monarchist, but have you seen the majlis? It may be more likely that a monarch would open up to more democracy than these jerks. I believe France got a constitution after they spent a decade throwing the Celts back and forth across a room.
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Jun 6, 2018 19:20
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The Flying Llama convinced me, although not in the way he probably hoped. A, on the understanding that the other countries will probably not also vote A.
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Jun 6, 2018 19:23
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Yea, if it inevitably fails then so much the better. We get the relations boost and France gets nothing.
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Jun 6, 2018 19:26
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B
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Jun 6, 2018 19:26
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SlothfulCobra posted:Normally I'm reflexively anti-monarchist, but have you seen the majlis? It may be more likely that a monarch would open up to more democracy than these jerks. There's also a republic in south America, New Occitania, that was fighting for independence from Provence when eu4 ended. Since Provence was wiped out in MotE, I'm gonna assume that revolution was successful. And yeah, France will start vicky as a fully Constitutional Monarchy, along with a couple other smaller states. The Celtic Empire will also have an event very early on to adopt French Constitutionalism, becoming the United Kingdom of Ireland-Scotland.
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Jun 6, 2018 19:27
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A. warmer relations with several major and minor players on the world stage is worth a souring between us and hannover, not to mention that becoming closer with a strong france is the best path going forward.
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Jun 6, 2018 19:28
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A I, uh, I can't help but notice that the whole Iberian chunk of the Tirruni empire is missing from the deal. Is there gonna be a separate vote on that?
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Jun 6, 2018 19:29
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Soup du Jour posted:B You realise that this is an incentive to vote A, right? Nationalist uprisings in Italy mean distractions for the other powers. A for this reason and also it gives the biggest relations boosts with our immediate neighbours.
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Jun 6, 2018 19:30
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A Also yes Cyro, that's at the end of the post.
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Jun 6, 2018 19:30
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A is clearly the correct option.
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Jun 6, 2018 19:33
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A Sucking up to
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Jun 6, 2018 19:33
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TheFlyingLlama posted:alrighty time for some realpolitik. Is that a genuine downside? Actually, this begs the question: Does A need to pass for us to get the relations boost? Or will they like us more even if the other Great Powers ultimately defeat the measure? Because if we still get the boost and it’s unlikely to pass it sounds like the best of both worlds.
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Jun 6, 2018 19:33
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everybody's like "ooh as long as we get the relations boost it's good" but if we lose the vote we're on the wrong side of history! Winners go home and gently caress the prom queen, not go home having lost one vote in a congress that we had no real way to win in the first place!
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Jun 6, 2018 19:36
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let's not alienate our only potential friend among our powerful neighbours A
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Jun 6, 2018 19:36
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A, especially since it helps set a precedent for returning provinces to their previous owners. Hint hint.
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Jun 6, 2018 19:36
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B
Tricky Dick Nixon fucked around with this message at 20:05 on Jun 6, 2018 |
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Jun 6, 2018 19:37
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Voting for B. Would also like to note that France-England only has 1 vote in these proceedings, whereas Hannover has 2. If we want the vote re: Tirruni's Iberian possessions to go in our favor we should probably be more interested in sucking up to Hannover than France-England. Captain Oblivious posted:Is that a genuine downside? Actually, this begs the question: Hashim posted:So keep in mind that even if our chosen option doesn’t win overall, the relations boost/hits will still take effect, and the other powers will remember how we voted.
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Jun 6, 2018 19:37
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Gah gently caress France but A
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Jun 6, 2018 19:38
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man zulfiqar is going to go down in andalusiverse history as the hottest of poo poo, restoring his country and managing to avoid absolutism while still creating a centre of power apart from the massively incompetent nobility
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Jun 6, 2018 19:39
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Additionally as others have pointed out, Russia as well as Morocco presumably prefer the buffer states option to empowering France-England to the point of it becoming another GP. There's no direct relations bonus to either for choosing B, but Hashim did say "the other powers will remember how we voted". So while I couldn't care less about what Morocco thinks, good relations with mega-Russia probably also wouldn't hurt matters.
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Jun 6, 2018 19:40
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Mirdini posted:Voting for B. That seems reasonable. Hannover is more likely to want to partition things in our favor to curb their immediate neighbor of Frangland. B
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Jun 6, 2018 19:41
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Before or after he falls down some stairs and reveals himself to be possessed by all the previous terrible ruler of Al Andalus.
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Jun 6, 2018 19:41
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If the other major powers block France's territorial gains here (which I think is pretty likely to happen regardless of our vote), they're gonna be super pissed, especially after it gave up the Rhineland while Morocco and Russia kept their territorial gains.
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Jun 6, 2018 19:43
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RabidWeasel posted:You realise that this is an incentive to vote A, right? Nationalist uprisings in Italy mean distractions for the other powers. I’d just like the people of Italy have nice things after being a warzone for two decades
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Jun 6, 2018 19:43
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ChaseSP posted:Before or after he falls down some stairs and reveals himself to be possessed by all the previous terrible ruler of Al Andalus. he's presumably going to keel over and die shortly, letting his much more egomanical son take over and eradicate all opposition to his rule, us, and also allow the country to fall to anarcho-liberals
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Jun 6, 2018 19:44
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Pakled posted:If the other major powers block France's territorial gains here (which I think is pretty likely to happen regardless of our vote), they're gonna be super pissed, especially after it gave up the Rhineland while Morocco and Russia kept their territorial gains. yeah if morocco and russia veto both us and france we'd make one hell of a revisionist bloc - this would be Very Good for us, since we hate morocco anyway and russia probably has bigger fish to fry
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Jun 6, 2018 19:46
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V. Illych L. posted:yeah if morocco and russia veto both us and france we'd make one hell of a revisionist bloc - this would be Very Good for us, since we hate morocco anyway and russia probably has bigger fish to fry What bigger fish? Russia's all-in on the absolutism and doesn't have any neighbors capable of challenging them, why would they stop being interested in what's going on in Western Europe?
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Jun 6, 2018 19:50
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Voting A only pisses off Hannover, Russia doesn't care, according to the prompt. E: not a response to you specifically, I think people miss this point.
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Jun 6, 2018 19:53
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A. We scratch Frangleterre's back, they NAND(scratch,stab) ours.
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Jun 6, 2018 19:54
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Soup du Jour posted:I’d just like the people of Italy have nice things after being a warzone for two decades for what it's worth, this is what the population density map of north Italy looks like right now:  red = more densely populated, green = less. So yeah, north Italy's pretty devastated at the moment. Especially the Venice region.
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Jun 6, 2018 19:56
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Not to be too cynical, but Franco-England liking us now doesn't necessarily mean they'll like us in a couple decades, when our borders are grinding against each other and the riches of Iberia are once again unequaled. Better to keep them weak and create some minor powers that we can later "support" and "forge dynastic ties with." B is for Buffer states!
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Jun 6, 2018 20:03
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Erwin the German posted:especially since it helps set a precedent for returning provinces to their previous owners. Hint hint. Yeah I think this is a really good point also. People are arguing that voting for B means that Hannover will be more likely to support us getting back our cores on Catalonia, but surely it could look pretty bad if we demand that Italy and Occitania are given independence but our claims should be given back. And honestly I do think A passing is likelier than some might think and as such it might be beneficial to agitate for a return to 'pre-Tirruni' borders.
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Jun 6, 2018 20:04
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B
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Jun 6, 2018 20:06
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Mirdini posted:What bigger fish? Russia's all-in on the absolutism and doesn't have any neighbors capable of challenging them, why would they stop being interested in what's going on in Western Europe? idk maybe all the wealth of asia might offer some small temptation
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Jun 6, 2018 20:11
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Voting A, becuase it's more likely to lead to us getting our core territory back and also is more likely to give our enemies a headache with nationalism later on.
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Jun 6, 2018 20:11
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I love this. In a desperate attempt to avoid making enemies, were going to end up going into V2 with nobody liking us enough to be our ally. A To hell with the eastern boogeymen!
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Jun 6, 2018 20:13
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