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remember when we voted for the lesser evil obama and he at least kept ICE activity at the same level as GWB and didn't do exactly what john mccain would have done?
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Jun 12, 2018 22:00
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Condiv posted:if i vote for the candidates the party rigged the primary for, how am i changing poo poo? oh that's right, i'm not. and lesser evil reasoning either applies to the primaries too or it doesn't apply at all. and the party decided it doesn't apply at all when it rigs the primaries for the greater evil. they can go ahead and clean up their own mess now thanks If you don't vote, or "protest vote", how are you changing poo poo? quote:also, what is the reasoning on lesser evil with manchin? he supports trump. how is it helping anything to vote for him? He votes with the Dems on most things, but doesn't on some. That's better than someone who votes against them 100% of the time. Machin's poo poo, but he's also likely the least worst person that can get elected currently in his state.
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Jun 12, 2018 22:02
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Jaxyon posted:Political parties do political party poo poo. This isn't exactly new. You can either change that or go full Apathy. This kind of sentiment drives people towards apathy once they see how hard it is to change a political party. Also when the party starts actively fighting against being changed, that drives people to apathy as well.
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Jun 12, 2018 22:03
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Jaxyon posted:If you don't vote, or "protest vote", how are you changing poo poo? by helping the party come to the realization that rigging primaries results in electoral losses and/or depressed turnout. helping them get away with rigging primaries literally changes nothing jaxyon. happy to help you understand this basic concept. quote:He votes with the Dems on most things, but doesn't on some. That's better than someone who votes against them 100% of the time. no, he votes with trump 60+% of the time. and he's getting worse. quote:Machin's poo poo, but he's also likely the least worst person that can get elected currently in his state. nope, that was swearengin. whom the primary was rigged against.
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Jun 12, 2018 22:06
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WampaLord posted:This kind of sentiment drives people towards apathy once they see how hard it is to change a political party. For sure. Following politics is loving depressing. Fighting people who have a ton of power and huge funding is not easy. Condiv posted:by helping the party come to the realization that rigging primaries results in electoral losses and/or depressed turnout. helping them get away with rigging primaries literally changes nothing jaxyon. happy to help you understand this basic concept. How does that help them come to the realization? quote:no, he votes with trump 60+% of the time. and he's getting worse. 60 < 100 quote:nope, that was swearengin. whom the primary was rigged against. My understanding is that she wouldn't have won the general. I'm not arguing that she's the one any sane person would rather vote for.
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Jun 12, 2018 22:13
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Jaxyon posted:My understanding is that she wouldn't have won the general. Centrists have lost over 1000 seats at the state level, the house, the senate, and the presidency. Maybe centrists should stop claiming that they are some sort of authority on who can and can't win elections, and just let the primaries play out as they play out?
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Jun 12, 2018 22:18
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B B posted:Centrists have lost over 1000 seats at the state level, the house, the senate, and the presidency. Maybe centrists should stop claiming that they are some sort of authority on who can and can't win elections, and just let the primaries play out as they play out? Yeah, no poo poo dems should stop playing favorites in primaries, but not sure how you plan on changing that.
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Jun 12, 2018 22:22
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B B posted:Centrists have lost over 1000 seats at the state level, the house, the senate, and the presidency. Maybe centrists should stop claiming that they are some sort of authority on who can and can't win elections, and just let the primaries play out as they play out? Seriously. The Democratic establishment is an expert at losing elections not winning them without help from Republicans becoming so bad there is no other option. Their authority should only be used to negatively select candidates.
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Jun 12, 2018 22:23
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Jaxyon posted:Yeah, no poo poo dems should stop playing favorites in primaries, but not sure how you plan on changing that. The people who can change it only will change it if they have to. Voting for them won't help.
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Jun 12, 2018 22:24
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Jaxyon posted:How does that help them come to the realization? how does winning them seats when they rig the elections for those seats helping at all? especially when you are helping a shitbag who will gladly help rig the elections for other seats? it very obviously doesn't and reinforces the behavior as you are rewarding them for rigging primaries with your vote. them losing seats for rigging primaries makes it so a) they might actually realize that rigging primaries cost them badly needed votes and they shouldn't do that and b) there are less shitheads who like to rig primaries proportionately to the not poo poo dems. hth quote:60 < 100  sorry, but it's 60% and climbing. but apparently for you, since he once voted against trump, sometime in the past, he's a valuable ally that we have to cherish. it's not particularly convincing, especially since if i wanted to vote for a republican trump lover like manchin, i'd just vote for the republican party. thanks, but your reasoning fails on all counts.quote:My understanding is that she wouldn't have won the general. based on what exactly? oh yeah, nothing but lies from the DNC and DCCC, who were pushing manchin and had their thumb heavily on the scale for him cause voters are too stupid to make the right choice (paraphrasing steny hoyer)
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Jun 12, 2018 22:24
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Jaxyon posted:Yeah, no poo poo dems should stop playing favorites in primaries, but not sure how you plan on changing that. Withholding votes from shitdems who emerge from rigged primaries, until the Democratic Party stops rigging primaries.
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Jun 12, 2018 22:24
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Jaxyon posted:Yeah, no poo poo dems should stop playing favorites in primaries, but not sure how you plan on changing that. Honestly, what's the point of having this discussion if all of your replies are feckless navelgazing?
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Jun 12, 2018 22:25
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Matt Zerella posted:Honestly, what's the point of having this discussion if all of your replies are feckless navelgazing? If you can't handle someone disagreeing with you without trying to attack them like they're the enemy, why are you on a message board?
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Jun 12, 2018 22:27
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B B posted:Withholding votes from shitdems who emerge from rigged primaries, until the Democratic Party stops rigging primaries. Yeah I notice how far left the Democrats got as voter participating has dwindled.
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Jun 12, 2018 22:27
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Jaxyon posted:If you can't handle someone disagreeing with you without trying to attack them like they're the enemy, why are you on a message board? I can handle it just fine but every one of your replies is this weird mix of "nothing we can do" and some centrist grossness like the 60%/100% chestnut and it's just dumb. The worst part is you're left adjacent to a point but you just keep squinting your eyes like a sneeze is coming and never does.
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Jun 12, 2018 22:29
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Jaxyon posted:Yeah, no poo poo dems should stop playing favorites in primaries, but not sure how you plan on changing that. This is basically a variation of the "If leftism was popular, you'd be in charge already!" argument. We either need a perfectly executable plan on how to change the Democratic party or else it's not worth bitching about Dems being bad? Is that the gist of your argument here? Matt Zerella posted:I can handle it just fine but every one of your replies is this weird mix of "nothing we can do" And ironically the leftists on here get lumped in as the  crew
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Jun 12, 2018 22:31
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Jaxyon posted:Yeah I notice how far left the Democrats got as voter participating has dwindled. i'm sure the dems are becoming more and more rightwing cause we haven't been voting for them hard enough that's why they sank the public option they promised with healthcare reform in favor of a big handout to pharma companies right? and bailed out the banks while letting people get evicted from their homes? and let the banks break all sorts of laws hurting low income people with just a slap on the wrist? and help republicans along in strong blue states where the dems are under no threat? it's amazing how no matter how much power the dems get, it's never enough to actually push them left. they only drift rightwards.
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Jun 12, 2018 22:33
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Matt Zerella posted:I can handle it just fine but every one of your replies is this weird mix of "nothing we can do" and some centrist grossness like the 60%/100% chestnut and it's just dumb. The worst part is you're left adjacent to a point but you just keep squinting your eyes like a sneeze is coming and never does. I'm a leftist but I'm a realist. I think leftism is realistic, but politics is also a poo poo industry full of the worst people, while simultaneously being the main way to getting anything done. I don't like having to compromise, but I'll have to or I'll be irrelevant. I'm fine with luxury space gay communism, but there needs to be a way to get there, and I don't think throwing a tantrum about politics being corrupt is it. I respect Kilroy for at least trying to work from the inside. I respect revolutionary folks too, but nobody in this thread seems to be that. Or at least they're quiet about it, which is smart.
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Jun 12, 2018 22:34
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what's your way to get there? do you have a better strategy than eating poo poo endlessly in the hopes things improve? because that's what you're advocating
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Jun 12, 2018 22:35
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WampaLord posted:We either need a perfectly executable plan on how to change the Democratic party or else it's not worth bitching about Dems being bad? Is that the gist of your argument here?
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Jun 12, 2018 22:35
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Jaxyon posted:At his funeral, forums poster with "ironic" tankie hat, gives eulogy. fyi leftists do vote 60% of this country either don't or can't vote run on policies that will get them to vote what are these policies that will stir people to vote who otherwise go "they're all the same" or "my vote doesn't matter"? policies that will actively change their lives for the better, such as ending voter suppression, ensuring a proper living wage, universal healthcare, a jobs guarantee, not having to worry about being shot by the police, addressing the climate crisis so we don't suffocate to death when the clathrate guns fire, and so on
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Jun 12, 2018 22:35
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remember when the dems gained control of every branch of the californian government, and then suddenly stopped trying to pass UHC (veered rightwards from trying to pass UHC while republicans had some power) is that because not enough people voted for the dems? it must be according to jaxyon.
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Jun 12, 2018 22:36
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Jaxyon posted:I'm a leftist you voted for a slaveowner, how is that compatible with championing an ideology that strives for social equality?
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Jun 12, 2018 22:36
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Condiv posted:it's amazing how no matter how much power the dems get, it's never enough to actually push them left. they only drift rightwards. If they lose all the elections, then the New Labor Communist Party will spring, phoenix-like, form the ashes I guess?
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Jun 12, 2018 22:37
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self unaware posted:you voted for a slaveowner, how is that compatible with championing an ideology that strives for social equality? *vapes own farts*
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Jun 12, 2018 22:38
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Jaxyon posted:If you can't handle someone disagreeing with you without trying to attack them like they're the enemy, why are you on a message board? if you can't handle someone calling it as they see it then you perhaps shouldn't be on something awful
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Jun 12, 2018 22:38
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Rent-A-Cop posted:There isn't an argument. Just an attempt to shift the discussion from "Things need to get better!" to "Should things get worse slowly or get worse fast?" Thus the obsession with "accelerationists" and the total refusal to ever propose any real ideas. Change the party: Not a real idea.
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Jun 12, 2018 22:40
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SKULL.GIF posted:if you can't handle someone calling it as they see it then you perhaps shouldn't be on something awful Yeah I'm arguing with 5 people simultaneously because I can't handle adversity.
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Jun 12, 2018 22:40
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Jaxyon posted:I'm a leftist but I'm a realist.  Not, the only people who talk about "REALISM". Are completely useless cowardly knowitall libs. Nice try.
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Jun 12, 2018 22:41
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Jaxyon posted:Change the party: Not a real idea. wow, your master plan is "Change the party" some deep thoughts you're laying in here, got any more plans?
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Jun 12, 2018 22:41
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Jaxyon posted:If they lose all the elections, then the New Labor Communist Party will spring, phoenix-like, form the ashes I guess? the more elections they lose, the weaker they are. the weaker they are, the easier it is to take them over from within.
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Jun 12, 2018 22:42
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WampaLord posted:We either need a perfectly executable plan on how to change the Democratic party or else it's not worth bitching about Dems being bad? Is that the gist of your argument here? Soon: self unaware posted:wow, your master plan is "Change the party"
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Jun 12, 2018 22:42
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turns out concern trolling about political strategies isn't effective if you don't have a better one who could have guessed? it's "vote for the good slaveowners" all the way down
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Jun 12, 2018 22:43
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Condiv posted:the more elections they lose, the weaker they are. the weaker they are, the easier it is to take them over from within. What if you're not gaining control until the party is so weak that you can't do anything with that power?
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Jun 12, 2018 22:43
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Change the party guys, but not by voting, and not by not voting. Have any of you even considered becoming a billionaire and buying a few senators?
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Jun 12, 2018 22:44
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Jaxyon posted:Soon:  So your plan is "change the party" and your ideas on how to do that are...continue voting for every single Dem that wins a primary, no matter how bad they are?
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Jun 12, 2018 22:44
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self unaware posted:turns out concern trolling about political strategies isn't effective if you don't have a better one You literally advocated for voting for Trump in USPol
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Jun 12, 2018 22:44
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Rent-A-Cop posted:Change the party guys, but not by voting, and not by not voting. I actually was supporting changing it by voting.
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Jun 12, 2018 22:45
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Jaxyon posted:You literally advocated for voting for Trump in USPol [citation needed] man, it's like clockwork with you people, horsehoe theory, "aCceLeRaTiOniSts!", "you're supporting trump by attacking dems!"
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Jun 12, 2018 22:45
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A bunch of folks refusing to argue outside of strawmen, snide remarks, and sarcasm, and I'm the one jerking off? Yeah dude.
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Jun 12, 2018 22:45
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