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Elephant Parade posted:
She actually explains that the whole city setting wasn't ever her creation. I see. So what inspired Reborn as a decrepit cityscape full of... frankly not very nice people? posted:
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Jun 20, 2018 15:58
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if you hate writing NPCs, maybe don't set your game in a city, one of the most populous (and therefore NPC-filled) locales imaginable
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OgretailFood posted:As a Kiseki/Trails fan, this hurts me Few people are capable of Falcom's level of worldbuilding.
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Jun 20, 2018 17:11
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Onmi posted:She actually explains that the whole city setting wasn't ever her creation. ...that doesn't mean she had to use it. It's her game. Unless someone was holding her at gunpoint and insisting she use their random fan setting. Then again, add me to the list of people unable to understand why you'd write a Pokemon game if you hate writing and all the Pokemon mechanics.
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Jun 20, 2018 17:40
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If I came across a master ball in the wild, you bet your rear end I'm going- OH poo poo WHY IS IT BLOWING UP.
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Jun 20, 2018 17:46
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At least, at least, everyone other than Fern shown in this update is pretty horrified by what just happened instead of brushing it off. But then suddenly ghost leader shows up and takes the body Also, does anyone else find it kind of jarring that the interiors of buildings are super colorful and immaculately clean when the exterior city is a garbage mess and falling apart? Some visual design whiplash right there...
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Jun 20, 2018 18:00
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Black Robe posted:...that doesn't mean she had to use it. It's her game. Unless someone was holding her at gunpoint and insisting she use their random fan setting. Yeah, I feel like the point of making a fan anything is that you can do what you want without being bound to the expectations of the original, for better or worse? So deliberately choosing a setting and engine she hates for a fangame is extremely baffling. (Like, a real time Pokémon game would probably be bad, but Reborn is already bad sooooooo)
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Jun 20, 2018 18:18
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The part that's most confusing is that if you're (at best) bored with most of Pokemon's mechanics, why would you make your community project far wider in scope than any official game by several orders of magnitude?
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Jun 20, 2018 18:19
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burn this game with fire and scatter the ashes, jfc
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Jun 20, 2018 19:48
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As bad as everything else is, I'll at least give them one point for having everyone that isn't a horrible poo poo named Fern not just ignore the death. Like, it's still not great to have as a thing, but at least the NPCs are reacting to it in a fitting way.
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Jun 20, 2018 20:06
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Onmi posted:Long story short, I decided that it was kinda lovely to ascribe reasonings behind decisions to the devs without, ya know... asking them... so I did. Saving this for reference after the LP is done.
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Jun 20, 2018 20:18
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I'm reminded here of the Pokemon Quartz LP, which also included an interview with the developer. However, in the case of Quartz, Baro proved to be surprisingly self-aware about how bad Quartz turned out, and admitted he didn't do a great job. Amethyst seemed to be doing everything in her power to gloss over or excuse the terrible poo poo in Reborn and her role in presenting it in the worst possible light. I mean, I can almost understand the impulse to want to present this whole... thing as you best remember it, but there's a point where a developer/writer with good judgement will go "this is obnoxious/creepy/offensive/ill-conceived/mind-bogglingly tone deaf, let's change it for the sake of making something not lovely".
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Jun 20, 2018 20:44
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See, this is why they assume that the criticism is fake. Because it's a simpler explanation than that anyone didn't recognize a coping mechanism when they saw it.
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Jun 20, 2018 20:47
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Ghost Janitor was not on my list of possibilities for what would happen here. Mainly because I didn't know there was a ghost.
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Jun 20, 2018 21:41
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I'll say that for how incredibly hideous the background and, well, everything, surrounding this plot point is, Victoria and Shelly are actually depicted really well here. That's..... not exactly much, but it's there.
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Jun 20, 2018 22:22
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I, for one, am mostly satisfied by the interview because it confirms something I always suspected: Even though the game has gotten popular, it's still being made for the original group. So we're all pretty much rubbernecking a lategame session out of someone else's D&D campaign and missing all the years of out of character context. What DM hasn't made some terrible technical game design decision or dark joke that would horrify the general public because s/he knew it would go well at that particular table? Viewed that way, no wonder they're sour about outside criticism. It's genuinely their thing more than ours, and it probably feels like we're interrupting their fun to say they aren't playing the Right Way or enjoying the Right Things. That said, Reborn is still terrible by objective measures. Those just aren't the ones I'm inclined to apply anymore because nobody objective was ever intended to notice it, let alone pay attention. Sorites fucked around with this message at 22:37 on Jun 20, 2018 |
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Jun 20, 2018 22:34
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oh good two of the gym leaders are identical
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Jun 20, 2018 22:39
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iospace posted:If I came across a master ball in the wild, you bet your rear end I'm going- OH poo poo WHY IS IT BLOWING UP. I just now figured out what was up with those Electrodes in RSE's team hideout.
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Jun 20, 2018 22:48
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Sorites posted:I, for one, am mostly satisfied by the interview because it confirms something I always suspected: Even though the game has gotten popular, it's still being made for the original group. So we're all pretty much rubbernecking a lategame session out of someone else's D&D campaign and missing all the years of out of character context. I'll say that it's still fair to apply objective measures to them on the basis that this is something publicly available to the whole wide world. So, objective measures is largely what we have to judge the content.
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Jun 20, 2018 23:08
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Sorites posted:That said, Reborn is still terrible by objective measures. Those just aren't the ones I'm inclined to apply anymore because nobody objective was ever intended to notice it, let alone pay attention. Someone released it in the wild for the internet. That person was either the original developer or a giant rear end in a top hat if it wasn't said developer. When you, an author, release something for public perusal either consciously or due to peer pressure, you need to be prepared for the death of the author. The fact of the matter is that whether or not it was made for public consumption, it was released for public consumption and needs to be held to those standards. e:f;b Keldulas posted:I'll say that it's still fair to apply objective measures to them on the basis that this is something publicly available to the whole wide world. So, objective measures is largely what we have to judge the content.
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Jun 20, 2018 23:37
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KataraniSword posted:Someone released it in the wild for the internet. That person was either the original developer or a giant rear end in a top hat if it wasn't said developer. I'm saving the interview for later, but I tend to agree here; after all, in the best of cases, judging something as a work of art that can be good or bad according to specific standards provides ways to learn and improve. If the creator doesn't want to improve because the game was just meant to be a personal source of amusement for her and her friends, that's perfectly alright; but if you make something like that available to people outside the intended group, those people don't really have another way of engaging with it except on more or less non-personal grounds. And even a game like Reborn actually has lots of potential for improvement. Having recently learned that a grimdark post-apocalyptic Scooby-Doo reboot is apparently raking in tons of positive reviews, I'm starting to believe that the fundamental problem is not even the attempt to make a cheery children's story dark and edgy; it's the complete failure to understand the most basic tenets of a good story, a good setting, a good battle system, a good anything. I actually think a premise like Reborn's could work, but it would have to relate to the more widely known themes of Pokémon in an interesting way (that is, through more than a constant barrage of moments that say nothing except "Look, this is Pokémon, but mature! Look how mature this is! This is so much more mature than Nintendo's stuff!").
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Jun 20, 2018 23:43
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The interview makes it clear that Reborn's fatal flaw has nothing to do with its premise or design or anything like that. It's that the creator is completely uninterested in the source material she's working with, but continues to make more and expand its scope because...???
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Jun 20, 2018 23:46
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Except that falls apart when you remember that they've since made many changes to the game based on that other audience. Removing good Pokemon and ways to cheese the bosses or beat them in unintended ways, etc. That's downright spiteful.
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Jun 20, 2018 23:51
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One thing from the interview that puzzles me:quote:-I wanted the player to continue developing their team throughout the entire game. Since our league had eighteen badges, I knew it was going to be a long game if I continued it (and at the time I started making it, I assumed I'd just get bored and drop it after a month or so). I played through X with an Elemental Punch Buneary (bred by someone on the forums) and it was both hilarious and something I couldn't have done normally. Many Pokemon have absolutely abysmal level-up movesets but become powerhouses when they have access to TM/tutor/breeding moves. E: quote:However, I liked the effect [the level cap] had on the game overall to discourage "get more levels" as the primary strategy to beat a tough battle. I don't like grinding; neither do most players, and that made sure that grinding wasn't always the best way. So I leaned into it heavily. Saladin Rising fucked around with this message at 00:02 on Jun 21, 2018 |
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Jun 21, 2018 00:00
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Carpator Diei posted:Having recently learned that a grimdark post-apocalyptic Scooby-Doo reboot is apparently raking in tons of positive reviews[...] Wait, what?
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Jun 21, 2018 00:55
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Orange Fluffy Sheep posted:TALLY OF ATROCITY: I think there's a typo here.
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Jun 21, 2018 01:02
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Onmi posted:Long story short, I decided that it was kinda lovely to ascribe reasonings behind decisions to the devs without, ya know... asking them... so I did.
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Jun 21, 2018 01:26
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EponymousMrYar posted:Ghost Janitor was not on my list of possibilities for what would happen here. 
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Jun 21, 2018 01:44
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Seaogre posted:I think there's a typo here. It's Absols
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Jun 21, 2018 01:55
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No, you see, the plural of Absol is also Absol. I know this because I have intimate knowledge of Pokemon's Deepest Lore and also the fact that the plurals of all the Pokemon names we know of are the same as the singulars. Not that anyone ever uses that terminology, least of all me.
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Jun 21, 2018 02:01
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I refuse to the accept that the plural of Snorlax is anything but Snorlaxen.
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Jun 21, 2018 02:05
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Orange Fluffy Sheep posted:I refuse to the accept that the plural of Snorlax is anything but Snorlaxen. The plural of Gengar is Gengii
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Jun 21, 2018 02:07
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Orange Fluffy Sheep posted:I refuse to the accept that the plural of Snorlax is anything but Snorlaxen. 
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Jun 21, 2018 02:11
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azren posted:Wait, what? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scooby_Apocalypse I've read some of it. It's better than it sounds. 
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Jun 21, 2018 02:22
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Onmi posted:I was just talking with a friend of mine and he brought up a really good point. Do Level limits, sure, if you really wanna prevent grinding, but like... prevent pokemon from leveling if you want to do that. And then say... make it like Shadow Pokemon, capped pokemon bank EXP So when you get the next badge, any EXP they would have gained, they gain after. That seems like it would require more programming expertise than the dev team seems to have. This version probably only needs you to change a flag in the code so that all Pokemon are traded but don't get bonus exp.
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Jun 21, 2018 03:30
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Arkanian posted:That seems like it would require more programming expertise than the dev team seems to have. This version probably only needs you to change a flag in the code so that all Pokemon are traded but don't get bonus exp. Not an excuse, if you can make all those field effects, you can do this, you can't tell me that there's no Pokemon Essentials Shadow Pokemon code. http://pokemonessentials.wikia.com/wiki/Shadow_Pok%C3%A9mon Yes, there is.
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Jun 21, 2018 03:37
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Scooby-Doo in the apocalypse is probably not even top ten weirdest Scooby-Doo things.
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Jun 21, 2018 04:20
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Jun 21, 2018 04:21
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So. Odd question: what is this bridge to? What is this bridge over? It seems like a big stone bridge connecting one part of the city to another part of the city by crossing over a third part of the city.
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Jun 21, 2018 04:29
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PoptartsNinja posted:Odd question: what is this bridge to? What is this bridge over? It seems like a big stone bridge connecting one part of the city to another part of the city by crossing over a third part of the city. Perhaps the city planners were inspired by the famously pedestrian-friendly city of Yharnam?
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Jun 21, 2018 04:40
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Jun 21, 2018 04:42
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