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END ME SCOOB posted:Fwiw I will not ever defend GBS, but there's a part of me that does decidedly loathe Tumblr for how it, intentionally and unintentionally, muddies these waters if you're trying to figure your poo poo out and whatever you take as the first "correct" result on some searches might color all of how you see some things until you learn words have actual definitions later or that you've been basing your identity on some poo poo a weird ego lord made to puff up their own petty empire (HI JDR) or... I can appreciate that, but otoh kids need a safe and chill space to explore their identities and Tumblr seems to be the only one because reddit is really angry all the time and twitter will just get you stalked and killed if you're out as queer on there. Tumblr seems to be the cool safe place for kids to express themselves. Yeah that means that some of their confused teenage ideas confuse other people, but I'd like to hope it does more harm than good. I just wish there was a good safe online place for queer youngins.
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Jun 21, 2018 01:45
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jit bull transpile posted:Graysexual is the biggie right now. I think "demisexual" is another term those people use. There's also some really insidious attempts to associate furries and otherkin with queer identities. I've also seen some people try to tie crossdressing to sexual orientation as an overture to saying that trans women are gay male cross dressers. In reality there's lots of cis het cross dressers who do it purely for kink. I really appreciate this. I used to date someone who identified along those lines. I found it confusing, and partially because of that, I'm still unraveling where I stand on the issue of gatekeeping. It helps to see where people I respect on queer issues stand. My ex started out by claiming to be asexual, which they called a queer identity. I'm aware that asexuality is real (I don't know whether it's widely considered queer, but I wouldn't feel like i was on solid ground arguing the point in either direction). Still, I found it very confusing because we were having a lot of sex at the time, and I didn't think that was normal for asexual people. After a while they started using the word greysexual, and later changed it again to demisexual, and all of those things were very confusing to me because it seemed like a stretch to describe average, or even high-libido behavior, as inherently queer. We talked a lot about whether it was a good idea to use the language of identity to talk about that, and I ended up thinking that it really wasn't. As an alternative, I really like the model of Emily Nagoski, which she wrote about in Come As You Are. I recommend that book and Emily Nagoski highly, and it provides nuanced language for discussing the spectrum of sexual response and desire in (what I saw as) a relatively clean and straightforward way. The author is a sex researcher at Smith College, and the book emphasizes that most experiences of sexual desire and response are "normal", including and especially "low-libido, responsive desire", which (I think) is the term that she'd use for the folks who describe themselves as demisexual. In that light, I don't really want to count the demisexual folks as queer, but ... I don't know. As a guy who gets left out of queer spaces, is it fair for me to turn around and do the same thing? Is there a chance I'll find myself on the wrong side of history on this one? It seems like some people feel I already am - in my circles, you hear a lot of calls to just let anyone identify as queer, and anything that smacks of gatekeeping at all is villified. I guess that's because my circles are exactly these people: END ME SCOOB posted:there's a part of me that does decidedly loathe Tumblr for how it, intentionally and unintentionally, muddies these waters Back when I was in that relationship I did a bunch of quick googling and sure enough, exactly as you describe, I found out that I was a real monster for doubting someone's asexuality just because they were initiating sex with me a lot. I took that very seriously at the time, and I'm genuinely, earnestly not sure if I'm still supposed to? And thanks for being so welcoming, JBT - I feel real uneasy posting in any sort of queer space and it's good of you to focus on being welcoming. I apologise if I've got any of this wrong - I'm genuine in my confusion here.
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Jun 21, 2018 01:55
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END ME SCOOB posted:Fwiw I will not ever defend GBS, but there's a part of me that does decidedly loathe Tumblr for how it, intentionally and unintentionally, muddies these waters if you're trying to figure your poo poo out and whatever you take as the first "correct" result on some searches might color all of how you see some things until you learn words have actual definitions later or that you've been basing your identity on some poo poo a weird ego lord made to puff up their own petty empire (HI JDR) or... the problem with tumblr is that a lot of people there are kids trying to be Very Serious instead of posting funny dog pics
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Jun 21, 2018 02:03
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SolTerrasa posted:I really appreciate this. I used to date someone who identified along those lines. I found it confusing, and partially because of that, I'm still unraveling where I stand on the issue of gatekeeping. It helps to see where people I respect on queer issues stand. My ex started out by claiming to be asexual, which they called a queer identity. I'm aware that asexuality is real (I don't know whether it's widely considered queer, but I wouldn't feel like i was on solid ground arguing the point in either direction). Still, I found it very confusing because we were having a lot of sex at the time, and I didn't think that was normal for asexual people. After a while they started using the word greysexual, and later changed it again to demisexual, and all of those things were very confusing to me because it seemed like a stretch to describe average, or even high-libido behavior, as inherently queer. I don't want to assign thoughts or feelings to your ex, but if they were consensually engaging in and enjoying sex that doesn't mesh with being asexual as I understand it. I have two asexual friends and they are both extremely repelled by the idea of any kind of sex. Their romantic relationships involve cuddling on the couch or doing lots of a fun activities together. Neither of them has had sex since they were in college and were pressured into it. Both of them describe dating a new person as extremely stressful because people will assume that being asexual just means they're playing hard to get, which leads to really dicey situations. I definitely include asexual people in queer spaces. It's not exactly an orientation, but it's so far away from the social norm that it feels right to me to include them. Stuff like "gray" and "demi" just reads as trying to put a queer sounding label on hetero standard behavior.
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Jun 21, 2018 02:08
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I try to avoid the whole "is below-average libido part of the greater queerness spectrum" mostly because I don't even know where I myself fall into the regex. Like I've been thinking about it on and off for years (including several "am I trans?" moments which ended up being "lol I still don't have a fuckin clue") and while piling a whole series of descriptors together to explain my personal state of gender and sexuality would take a good couple lines to fully express I also don't feel really comfortable just saying I'm queer I guess. It also totally depends on who I'm talking to, like, my best friends are all variously part of the regex so it's just a big pile of fabulous. But to the outside world I'm just a cis white dude who likes girls and has dated a boy or two in his time and I don't feel personally constrained by that. So I don't know if that "qualifies" me so to speak to have input in discussions about queerness and what is/is not queer. Gender and sexuality are hard. It'd be nice if everyone was as cool and good as yospos. e: I need to post here more often. y'all are awesome
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Jun 21, 2018 02:08
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Kazinsal posted:I try to avoid the whole "is below-average libido part of the greater queerness spectrum" mostly because I don't even know where I myself fall into the regex. Like I've been thinking about it on and off for years (including several "am I trans?" moments which ended up being "lol I still don't have a fuckin clue") and while piling a whole series of descriptors together to explain my personal state of gender and sexuality would take a good couple lines to fully express I also don't feel really comfortable just saying I'm queer I guess. It also totally depends on who I'm talking to, like, my best friends are all variously part of the regex so it's just a big pile of fabulous. But to the outside world I'm just a cis white dude who likes girls and has dated a boy or two in his time and I don't feel personally constrained by that. So I don't know if that "qualifies" me so to speak to have input in discussions about queerness and what is/is not queer. What you're struggling with is called "intersectionality". You are recognizing that while you are somewhere in the queer spectrum, you receive a lot more privileges than other queer people based on your race and gender identity. Guess what? It's totally OK to have privilege! It's not your fault. The important thing to do is just be aware of it and use it to improve the conditions of the people around you. It sounds like you think about this a lot, which means your heart is probably in the right place.
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Jun 21, 2018 02:13
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SPREE POSTING
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Jun 21, 2018 02:13
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Improbable Lobster posted:the problem with tumblr is that a lot of people there are kids trying to be Very Serious instead of posting funny dog pics Y'know this is fair and I'm just gonna try and keep that in mind rather than be angry about it. Except for the predatory fucklord types. They can still catch a fist.
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Jun 21, 2018 02:19
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END ME SCOOB posted:Y'know this is fair and I'm just gonna try and keep that in mind rather than be angry about it. Except for the predatory fucklord types. They can still catch a fist. Update your thread/do the podcast /invite me on the podcast
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Jun 21, 2018 02:20
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The first one is all me. The last one is only half on me because my throat is full of blood and pus but also I don't know if partner has finished reading the books. Yes I'm absolutely calling you out if you see this, love. <3
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Jun 21, 2018 02:28
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jit bull transpile posted:I don't want to assign thoughts or feelings to your ex, but if they were consensually engaging in and enjoying sex that doesn't mesh with being asexual as I understand it. I have two asexual friends and they are both extremely repelled by the idea of any kind of sex. Their romantic relationships involve cuddling on the couch or doing lots of a fun activities together. Neither of them has had sex since they were in college and were pressured into it. Both of them describe dating a new person as extremely stressful because people will assume that being asexual just means they're playing hard to get, which leads to really dicey situations. I know for me, I never initiate sex but there's times I'm with someone and if they're wanting it I'll do my best to give them a good time. It takes a lot of focus and I'm super weird about it. Dating is in fact a mess jit bull transpile posted:Update your thread/do the podcast /invite me on the podcast I think the phrase your looking for is "Text me"
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Jun 21, 2018 02:28
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I honestly don't get the asexuals-who-have-sex thing. I've tried, but the concept just doesn't gel, and if it doesn't gel it's not aspic. I don't judge, but I don't understand. But gatekeeping and exclusion is awful so basically I just don't care. Come on in, the water's fine. I've had straight friends agonize about the appropriateness of going into queer spaces, and I usually tell them "if you're giving it this much thought, you'll probably be fine in any queer space worth visiting anyway." My favorite places in L.A. have pretty much an open-door policy, so as long as you don't try to own the place or make a jerk of yourself you'll be fine.
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Jun 21, 2018 02:38
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evil_bunnY posted:friendo have you heard of derby. it is a thing, and it is amazing. please be careful and check it out thoroughly beforehand, some derby leagues have very toxic people, structures, or both, and can vary greatly in their actual inclusivity regardless of what they state I was very surprised by some of the vitriol I heard from some cis skaters about the existence of trans skaters and WFTDA’s demand they be accepted; hopefully this was far enough back that those people are long gone now and there’s nothing to worry about if you do find a good league, go for it, it can be enormously fun even as a slow technical sport rather than a fast brutal one
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Jun 21, 2018 02:51
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Peeny Cheez posted:I honestly don't get the asexuals-who-have-sex thing. I've tried, but the concept just doesn't gel, and if it doesn't gel it's not aspic. I don't judge, but I don't understand. But gatekeeping and exclusion is awful so basically I just don't care. Come on in, the water's fine. There's queer spaces and there's queer spaces. I think it's fine for allies to be at places like bars, festivals, book clubs, etc. But I do think it's critical for there to be queer-only spaces where people can feel 100% comfortable speaking about their experiences with people who can understand and empathize. One of the hardest things about coming out as trans is you often have nobody to talk to because many people aren't out except in exclusively trans spaces. It's really hard to work through your feelings when there's no one to talk to and nowhere safe to do it. The internet has been a godsend in this regard, but the downside is that there's stalkers and harassers online and you might accidentally become a Susan's place poster.
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Jun 21, 2018 02:51
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Are y'all watching Pose? Cuz y'all need to be watching Pose.
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Jun 21, 2018 02:52
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SolTerrasa posted:Yeah, uh, sorry about that, I made the mistake of having a friend computer avatar back when that was stymie's forums brand and someone bought this to gently caress with me. Or to gently caress with HPH I guess. I think the joke has run its course since it's been a long time now i went to get one and realized idfk how to buy a gift certificate specifically for avatar+title (i see custom titles but not avatars? and you can assign a variable amount of money to a custom title so maybe you do that?) so either someone needs to let me know how that works or you can go ahead and just post in here what you want your new av to be and i'll just do it directly
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Jun 21, 2018 03:48
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Custom title is the av unless poo poo has changed wildly under the hood.
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Jun 21, 2018 03:53
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i thought buying a title and buying an avatar were the same thing
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Jun 21, 2018 03:53
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END ME SCOOB posted:Custom title is the av unless poo poo has changed wildly under the hood. It's this
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Jun 21, 2018 03:55
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... you're both right, i've bought avatars for myself and others countless times and for some reason this never sank in 
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Jun 21, 2018 03:57
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jit bull transpile posted:Are y'all watching Pose? Cuz y'all need to be watching Pose.
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Jun 21, 2018 03:59
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also i guess gift certs can't be sent directly to a forums account anyway so w/e SolTerassa just let me know what you want and i'll do it directly and lowtax will just get  for his bionic spine instead of five
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Jun 21, 2018 04:01
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jit bull transpile posted:Also "transgendered" was never a preferred term. Lain Iwakura posted:"transgendered" isn't a word used by anyone other than those who are ignorant wait, what? what's the preferred term?
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Jun 21, 2018 04:49
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Progressive JPEG posted:wait, what? what's the preferred term? Transgender. It's an adjective. "transgendered" implies that it's some sort of ancient curse that suddenly afflicted us one day, rather than being just one of many adjectives that describe us as complete human beings.
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Jun 21, 2018 05:13
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ate all the Oreos posted:also i guess gift certs can't be sent directly to a forums account anyway so w/e SolTerassa just let me know what you want and i'll do it directly and lowtax will just get Ah, heck, that's real nice of you. Thanks! Don't have pms either so I'm just gonna post it here and sorry for the thread noise. There's this thing, which I can't really find in any higher resolution.  If that won't work for whatever reason, a co-workers' kid drew this thing last year and I love it. He hung it at his desk and it's awesome. 
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Jun 21, 2018 09:15
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eschaton posted:please be careful and check it out thoroughly beforehand, some derby leagues have very toxic people, structures, or both, and can vary greatly in their actual inclusivity regardless of what they state evil_bunnY fucked around with this message at 11:27 on Jun 21, 2018 |
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Jun 21, 2018 11:23
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jit bull transpile posted:Update your thread THERE that took way more effort than it should have for such a tiny loving post, there was nothing to say about that book
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Jun 21, 2018 12:36
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SolTerrasa posted:Ah, heck, that's real nice of you. Thanks! Don't have pms either so I'm just gonna post it here and sorry for the thread noise. done, i went with the first one 'cuz while i love the second one i think it doesn't really scale down to 180px all that great i couldn't think of any clever text to add under it so let me know if you want me to put ~funy words~ or a gang tag or something and i'll buy another one cuz i'm feeling generous since lowtax is getting desperate 
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Jun 21, 2018 14:52
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my derby league owns and has several non-cis people playing
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Jun 21, 2018 15:09
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SolTerrasa posted:There's this thing, which I can't really find in any higher resolution. i need something like that in sticker form because god drat. Lain Iwakura posted:there are days where i am all "am i really queer?" i'm a little further than this in that i generally hate them, including seeing them, regardless of who they're attached to or anything. that's true to a lesser degree to female genitalia, too, but it's more of a general dislike as opposed to "this is super gross, blech". hooray bein' ace. boobs are good though 
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Jun 21, 2018 23:07
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keyboard vomit posted:That wasn't meant to be hostile, I just have had an annoying amount of conversations with people trying to tell me that ace isn't a queer thing going back a few pages but this is something i can't quite grok, being the a in the alphabet soup: what exactly is the definition of asexual in the context of, well, being queer or not i ask because i personally do not give a single flying gently caress about the act of sex, and while certain aspects of being biologically male are irritating (as i said upthread my body hair is gross) neither of these facts are what I would call a Big Deal to me? like, fine, if that makes me queer (or not) by some definition so be it, i really don't care (or i sure think i don't); it's just not something i think about or struggle with at all so i'm just sort of bemused from a lack of knowledge (e) oh maybe asexuality is defined as a profound dislike of the whole drat thing, rather than my own indifference. drat, should have thought of that 
Ciaphas fucked around with this message at 01:29 on Jun 22, 2018 |
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Jun 22, 2018 01:24
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Ciaphas posted:going back a few pages but this is something i can't quite grok, being the a in the alphabet soup: what exactly is the definition of asexual in the context of, well, being queer or not it can be a profound dislike, it can also just be indifferent. some asexuals will engage in sex to please their partner but don't really get anything from it, others find it horribly uncomfortable and try to avoid it entirely. and yeah it's kinda the odd one out in the queer umbrella but as jit bull transpile said earlier they kinda get a pass because the world tends to make their existence hard for not conforming to heteronormativity.
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Jun 22, 2018 02:58
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in my mind, "nobody ever" is as much of an orientation as "only men" or "everybody". ciaphas, you legit overthink things way too much methinks. you don't need to be so nervous about thinking your thoughts wrong or whatever. you are who you are and who you are is good and cool. just be you and call yourself whatever feels right and don't worry so much if other people will get pissy at your choices. after all, there's a significant faction of queers who get pissy at people like me calling ourselves queer because as far as they're concerned i'm a very confused male crossdresser.
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Jun 22, 2018 03:01
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thanks both of you for explaining. and yeah, i know i massively overthink things it took me a long time to realize (and sorry for the offtopic but i want to writ e this down while it's clear in my mind) that basically everything i think, do, and feel is driven from a sort of low grade absolute terror of everything and everyone, but especially of being visibly wrong or being rejected or looked down on, to the point where i'd rather go on in ignorance than ask a question, or not introduce myself to someone or whatever. guess i never quite made it out of high school emotionally, huh
Ciaphas fucked around with this message at 03:57 on Jun 22, 2018 |
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Jun 22, 2018 03:50
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Ciaphas posted:thanks both of you for explaining. and yeah, i know i massively overthink things i know i used to have pretty big issues with 'being wrong' that my psych helped me work through a while back (it feels absolutely humiliating to admit being wrong, doesn't it? like even if nobody else cares and they're totally accepting and will forget it within 5 minutes, it stings) anyway if you're anything like me back then you've maybe got a bit of slow-simmering social anxiety and would probably get a lot out of a good therapist if you're not already seeing one 
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Jun 22, 2018 04:00
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saw one for several months, it was both immensely helpful and completely useless at the same time! wonderful woman, learned everything, actually resolved little, spent many thousands for the privilege (but enough about american health care... ) Ciaphas fucked around with this message at 04:06 on Jun 22, 2018 |
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Jun 22, 2018 04:02
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ate all the Oreos posted:i know i used to have pretty big issues with 'being wrong' that my psych helped me work through a while back (it feels absolutely humiliating to admit being wrong, doesn't it? like even if nobody else cares and they're totally accepting and will forget it within 5 minutes, it stings) Yes, this. Therapists are good, they're you're friend. And being wrong is never bad! Persisting in wrongness or being a dick when corrected is the bad thing.
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Jun 22, 2018 04:02
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maybe just a little fuel for discussion (about how dumb it is) https://twitter.com/katuration/status/1010506748669685760
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Jun 24, 2018 03:21
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Silver Alicorn posted:maybe just a little fuel for discussion (about how dumb it is) Garfield is definitely non binary tho
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Jun 24, 2018 03:53
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what about heathcliff
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Jun 24, 2018 03:54
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