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Android Blues posted:Yes, America does some of these things too. That doesn't mean that the political opponent of the nation that does the bad things is necessarily doing good things. But the fine posters of D&D told me just this morning that Assad fanboy and Fox News contributor Dennis Kucinich is cool and good because he opposed Obama, who did bad things. Are you telling me D&D leftists are wrong??? The simplistic idea that things must be divided into "bad" and "good" is really popular across the political spectrum, as is the closely correlated idea that the enemy of a Bad Thing must therefore be a Good Thing.
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Jun 21, 2018 22:31
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webmeister posted:Well that didn't take long You're right, it didn't take long (less than 13 hours!) to re-post a link that had already been posted literally two posts above yours!  Android Blues posted:In support of this point, all discussion of and footage from this segment is being systematically erased from Weibo.
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Jun 21, 2018 22:45
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My god, a link was posted twice in the same thread. Think of the wasted pixels
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Jun 21, 2018 23:17
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Soothing Vapors posted:My god, a link was posted twice in the same thread. Think of the wasted pixels Twice within the same three posts. Not a big deal, dude, but you can be expected to spare a few brain cells looking up a few posts before furiously hitting "submit reply." I don't expect everyone to read every post in a thread, but you should put in a little effort to make sure you're not adding something that's already been stated (literally hours before) and thus literally contributing nothing, or asking a question that's already been answered (again, recently.) The point of a discussion forum is to read what others are writing and not just spamming your own musings into a void, Trump-style. This isn't even a high-volume thread, you should be able to glance at the last page's worth of posts without much trouble.
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Jun 21, 2018 23:29
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Atomizer posted:Twice within the same three posts. Not a big deal, dude, but you can be expected to spare a few brain cells looking up a few posts before furiously hitting "submit reply." I don't expect everyone to read every post in a thread, but you should put in a little effort to make sure you're not adding something that's already been stated (literally hours before) and thus literally contributing nothing, or asking a question that's already been answered (again, recently.) The point of a discussion forum is to read what others are writing and not just spamming your own musings into a void, Trump-style. This isn't even a high-volume thread, you should be able to glance at the last page's worth of posts without much trouble. *gigantic mascots begin filling the stage and dancing*
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Jun 21, 2018 23:52
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SlothfulCobra posted:It's not so much that China's trying to become economically dominant as it is the oppressive autocracy that it's enriching, as well as using its influence to do bad things overseas as well. If everyone just kinda shrugs and let China get away with whatever, then it's just another step in democracy and human rights on the world stage going quietly into that good night. I wasn't trying to "whatabout", sorry. My point was that they're not doing anything Western empires haven't done, but to focus solely on China doing literally those same things is orientalist. If the show was about how terrible capitalism is and here's a recent example, fine. But this was "China is bad!" instead with no mention at all of the exact same things occurring throughout Western history. MegaZeroX posted:The minds of tankies are precious things. Not a tankie. Can't speak for others, though. TXT BOOTY7 2 47474 posted:did anyone say this lol No. It's a nice strawman though.
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Jun 21, 2018 23:59
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Soothing Vapors posted:My god, a link was posted twice in the same thread. Think of the wasted pixels Colonial Air Force posted:No. It's a nice strawman though.
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Jun 22, 2018 00:54
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Atomizer posted:Twice within the same three posts. Not a big deal, dude, but you can be expected to spare a few brain cells looking up a few posts before furiously hitting "submit reply." I don't expect everyone to read every post in a thread, but you should put in a little effort to make sure you're not adding something that's already been stated (literally hours before) and thus literally contributing nothing, or asking a question that's already been answered (again, recently.) The point of a discussion forum is to read what others are writing and not just spamming your own musings into a void, Trump-style. This isn't even a high-volume thread, you should be able to glance at the last page's worth of posts without much trouble. lol I'm not the one who posted the link. Maybe you should spare a few brain cells to look at the posts before *wall of asinine rambling ensues*
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Jun 22, 2018 00:55
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Colonial Air Force posted:My point was that they're not doing anything Western empires haven't done, but to focus solely on China doing literally those same things is orientalist. If the show was about how terrible capitalism is and here's a recent example, fine. But this was "China is bad!" instead with no mention at all of the exact same things occurring throughout Western history. You have pretty much every other episode of the show pointing out how America is lovely and has hosed over it's own people and other nations in various ways including corruption, nascent authoritarianism, shushing of opposition views, censorship etc. for that though. There's hardly a need for John to point out that Western nations do these things too in that particular piece, when John points out those things about America (and other nations to a lesser degree) all the time. It's also possible that he wanted to get through one main topic without going "America does this poo poo" or "America does this poo poo too". Look at how happy he was to be able to say America didn't cause the hosed up situation in Venezuela only a few weeks ago. tsob fucked around with this message at 02:13 on Jun 22, 2018 |
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Jun 22, 2018 01:53
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Colonial Air Force posted:I wasn't trying to "whatabout", sorry. My point was that they're not doing anything Western empires haven't done, but to focus solely on China doing literally those same things is orientalist. If the show was about how terrible capitalism is and here's a recent example, fine. But this was "China is bad!" instead with no mention at all of the exact same things occurring throughout Western history. That is whataboutism. You are literally providing a textbook definition of whataboutism. You could send this post to Merriam-Webster and they could use it as an example for the word "whataboutism."
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Jun 22, 2018 02:16
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Soothing Vapors posted:lol I'm not the one who posted the link. Maybe you should spare a few brain cells to look at the posts before *wall of asinine rambling ensues* Yeah, I know you didn't post that link, that's why I quoted both of the other guys who did.  I responded to you because you specifically replied with a snarky, unproductive post. Replace "you" with "one" in my last post ("...one should read up a few posts before replying...") if that helps you comprehend it.
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Jun 22, 2018 02:20
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Problematic Pigeon posted:That is whataboutism. You are literally providing a textbook definition of whataboutism. You could send this post to Merriam-Webster and they could use it as an example for the word "whataboutism." Not really. Whataboutism requires a turn of irrelevance. So, John-John Koala Chlamydia points out China reverting to totalitarianism, but what about how Donald Trump harassed women? Isn't it worse to have a completely amoral head of state? That's whataboutism. This guy and others are making reference to western governments pulling literally the same maneuver. For my money I think the difference is It's current events with China, and even John would find talking about Putin to be too much of a retread. But that's just me and I don't care too much. It's a comedian's weekly current events show for gently caress's sake.
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Jun 22, 2018 02:48
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Propaganda Machine posted:Not really. Whataboutism requires a turn of irrelevance. So, John-John Koala Chlamydia points out China reverting to totalitarianism, but what about how Donald Trump harassed women? Isn't it worse to have a completely amoral head of state? That's whataboutism. Still irrelevant, still whataboutism.
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Jun 22, 2018 02:55
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Problematic Pigeon posted:Still irrelevant, still whataboutism. Irrelevant to the story within Chinese context, not irrelevant when assessing the impacts.
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Jun 22, 2018 03:48
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Propaganda Machine posted:Irrelevant to the story within Chinese context, not irrelevant when assessing the impacts. Considering the segment was about the former primarily...who gives a poo poo?
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Jun 22, 2018 04:01
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People do realize that scope of of authoritarian bullshit in China is different than the US, right? The US does some shady poo poo, but not to the same scale and prevalence as seen in China. The US doesn't block all negative opinions about government officials from the internet. The US doesn't ban public display of homosexuality. And the fact of the matter is, the large online curtailing of "undesired" speech was scaled up during Xi's tenure. John Oliver doesn't need to bring up the US in this context, because the US literally doesn't enter into the discussion of problems this massive.
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Jun 22, 2018 04:13
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From living in China this is hilarious. The crackdown has been immense and clearly visible over the years I've been here. There's CCP propaganda posters absolutely everywhere now, non-Han neighborhoods are filled with police toting assault rifles, there's vastly more censorship, internet connections to the outside world are routinely cut off for days at a time. Huge areas of the province I live in have been closed off to travel, cops come by the apartment to hassle you with increasing frequency, my school was literally banned from teaching history...
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Jun 22, 2018 04:28
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MegaZeroX posted:The US doesn't block all negative opinions about government officials from the internet. The US doesn't ban public display of homosexuality. And the fact of the matter is, the large online curtailing of "undesired" speech was scaled up during Xi's tenure. In order: Yet. Yet. So? Still relevant. Yes, he does, and yes, it does. Trump and his administration are a bunch of fascist idiots, their avarice and incompetence being the only reason the US isn't a police state yet. But, this is America. Rest assured, someone is taking notes on what is working, what is not, and will get it *right* when it's their turn.
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Jun 22, 2018 04:43
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A big part of this is the sense of scale which I think westerners cant really fathom. Try to imagine if Donald Trump were president of Canada, the United States, and all of South America at once... then declared himself leader for life... and then censored anyone who made fun of him or pointed it out. Literally 1/5th of the population of the EARTH... under one man’s despotic rule. You really can not compare them, it’s not apples and oranges, it’s an orange vs an apple tree
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Jun 22, 2018 04:55
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And if the whole thing ends up successful, then that'll make the rightward shift that's happening in many parts of the world even more enticing. China's already trying to influence the international campaign to stop talking about human rights, what else are they going to do with their influence? How many people are going to want to follow Xi Jinping's model around the world if it works, setting up their own ethnic cleansings and locking up and torturing detractors? That's why human rights is an international issue. I'm not sure what bearing previous western infractions have on the issue. Because they did something bad in Asia, China should get a free pass? Over the past few decades, the former colonial empires have loosened and released their grips (albeit sometimes involuntarily) while China is now tightening theirs. Is the lesson that loosening up was a mistake? In the grander scheme of history, will the rise of democracy, personal freedoms, and human rights over the last century or two end up being a flash in the pan in the grander scheme of history?
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Jun 22, 2018 17:21
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SlothfulCobra posted:I'm not sure what bearing previous western infractions have on the issue. Because they did something bad in Asia, China should get a free pass? Over the past few decades, the former colonial empires have loosened and released their grips (albeit sometimes involuntarily) while China is now tightening theirs. Is the lesson that loosening up was a mistake? In the grander scheme of history, will the rise of democracy, personal freedoms, and human rights over the last century or two end up being a flash in the pan in the grander scheme of history? Don't you get it? The mean old west dethroned China from being a world power so now they can do no wrong to make up for that century and a half hiccup in power. In all seriousness the show spends most of its time ripping into the various really lovely parts about the US so it seems moronic to start crying about bias when he spends an episode talking about alarming developments in another superpower.
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Jun 22, 2018 18:13
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SlothfulCobra posted:And if the whole thing ends up successful, then that'll make the rightward shift that's happening in many parts of the world even more enticing. China's already trying to influence the international campaign to stop talking about human rights, what else are they going to do with their influence? How many people are going to want to follow Xi Jinping's model around the world if it works, setting up their own ethnic cleansings and locking up and torturing detractors? That's why human rights is an international issue. Yeah this is ESPECIALLY relevant now because with Trump burning so many international bridges, countries are going to start looking elsewhere for leadership. The US has proven to be unreliable lately, but you know who has been a reliable trade partner? Good old China.
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Jun 22, 2018 23:25
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historical context is whataboutism, apparently never change goons
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Jun 23, 2018 09:07
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TXT BOOTY7 2 47474 posted:historical context is whataboutism, apparently First of all, people weren't asking for historical context. People were complaining that: a) Actually, Xi is awesome and the anti-corruption campaign created by a president for life is totally not a dictator consolidating power. Therefore, Oliver's insinuation is clearly example of orientalism b) Actually, Mao was great and the great leap forward was totally awesome, the deaths were the stupid weather's fault. Sure no real historian agrees with this (in or out of China), but I don't want to see any faults in my world view. c) Apparently "Asia" calls everyone uncle, therefore Oliver is an evil hack for mocking it. It can't simply be that a near dictatorial figure was using familial language to promote himself like many authoritarian states have done in the past. d) But WHATABOUT the stuff the US has done in the past century? e) But WHATABOUT the US now? Trump is just as bad as Xi, he would be doing the same thing if he wasn't so incompetent. The first 3 are hilariously naive, and the last 2 are clearly whataboutisms. Sure, the US has done some hosed up poo poo in the past century. It isn't relevant in this case. Oliver ridicules the US regularly. If he brought up the US within this context, he would sound (rightfully) like a hack. And while Trump is a despicable human being, and the republican party's positions hurt millions of people every year and are the cause much pain and suffering, it doesn't begin to compare to the wack awful poo poo that Xi and CPP have been up to in the past decade. If you want to argue, on its own merits, that the US is responsible for how China is today, that is a real stretch. The US hasn't really been much of an influence in China since the CCP took over. The only thing the US government really had influence over since then was: a) Ensuring China didn't take over Taiwan b) Fighting against China in the Korean war. c) Embargoing (and not recognizing) China until the early seventies. d) Miscellaneous sanctions since reopening trade, particularly after the Tiananmen Square Massacre. None of which really shaped the internal politics. Mao would have remained in power regardless of a and b, and Deng would have gotten power afterword because of his mass popularity within the CCP. The best you can do is argue that the US was responsible for the CCP taking over, since the peace conference they held probably weakened Chiang Kai-shek's position. But I don't know if that is the hill you want to die on considering that it is like the least evil foreign policy thing the US has done in the past century. EVIL US IMPERIALIST PEACE CONFERENCES! MegaZeroX fucked around with this message at 04:56 on Jun 25, 2018 |
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Jun 23, 2018 19:49
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Next thing you know, goons will blame Jimmy Carter for the bullshit in Gaza.
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Jun 23, 2018 20:30
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A good response
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Jun 23, 2018 21:18
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MegaZeroX posted:And while Trump is a despicable human being, and the republican party's positions hurt millions of people every year and are the cause much pain and suffering, it doesn't begin to compare to the wack awful poo poo that Xi and CPP have been up to in the past decade. lol
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Jun 24, 2018 00:53
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He's pretty correct there dude
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Jun 24, 2018 01:12
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Good to see Bobby Moynihan getting work.
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Jun 25, 2018 04:52
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I was wondering why my cable box's description of this episode was in Spanish.
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Jun 25, 2018 05:01
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John Oliver ruined Christmas 
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Jun 25, 2018 07:36
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that whole santa bit should have gone to the cutting room floor imo good ep otherwise, think that santa time could have been better spent showing other people standing up to cartels or some discussion of how the candidates (or amlo at least) have spoken about americas recent.. happenings
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Jun 25, 2018 08:28
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TXT BOOTY7 2 47474 posted:that whole santa bit should have gone to the cutting room floor imo Yeah, they really overestimated how funny it was. It went on way too long the first time, bringing it back a second was agony.
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Jun 25, 2018 14:03
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A big candidate with a vendetta against Santa is funny enough without some really strained masturbation jokes. They already filled their dick joke quota earlier in the episode. By the way, why yellow confetti?
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Jun 25, 2018 15:09
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Jonas Albrecht posted:Yeah, they really overestimated how funny it was. It went on way too long the first time, bringing it back a second was agony. true of pretty much anything involving Bobby Moynahan
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Jun 25, 2018 16:11
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I work in a kindergarten in Norway and it's incredible annoying when you're playing children songs on spotify and suddenly there's a commercial break where someone is saying "use condoms, you dick".BIG HEADLINE posted:
All the more reason to talk about it.
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Jun 25, 2018 17:14
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TXT BOOTY7 2 47474 posted:that whole santa bit should have gone to the cutting room floor imo Honestly it felt a lot more like filler than anything else. I don’t know why they couldn’t have done stuff like you mentioned, unless this was meant to be a light week for the writers and they didn’t want to involve too much recent stuff and get the whole research cycle started.
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Jun 25, 2018 17:30
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Not content to limit John Oliver’s presence on Chinese social media it appears HBO’s website is now blocked in China; https://mobile.nytimes.com/2018/06/25/world/asia/china-hbo-john-oliver-xi-jinping.html?smtyp=cur&smid=tw-nytimes
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Jun 25, 2018 22:57
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SlothfulCobra posted:A big candidate with a vendetta against Santa is funny enough without some really strained masturbation jokes. They already filled their dick joke quota earlier in the episode. They should have brought back explodey dick instead of Santa. If they'd gone down the trout cannon route and had explodey dick turn up in a bunch of different TV shows that would have been great.
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Jun 26, 2018 10:25
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TXT BOOTY7 2 47474 posted:that whole santa bit should have gone to the cutting room floor imo I feel like with the cartels thing specifically it may have been a deliberate editorial choice not to focus too much on it for fear of putting those people in (more) danger. Like just by opposing the cartels they've already put their lives at risk but if their only exposure is local Mexican news segments it's not really the same level of risk as if a major American network brings up their face and name. People doing good things are good, but when choosing to expose them to a wider audience it's a balance between how much more danger they'll be in vs. how much the piece might help inspire similar action in others. This is why usually it's only done with the direct consent of the person in question.
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Jun 26, 2018 21:23
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