|
Postess with the Mostest posted:Love it. How many years in jail do the parents deserve (in your opinion)? I wouldn't feel terrible throwing 10 out there. If you bulldoze his parents house, it would send them a message that you are tuff on domestic terrorism
|
#
?
Jun 25, 2018 19:57
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 14, 2024 17:56 |
|
|
Toalpaz posted:You ever watch the Netflix documentary 'The Staircase'? People basically go up on trial, and up until the verdict is announced they'll have no clue how the trial went or whether they'll really have to do the time that they're up against (In this case life in prison). Sounds like a dystopian game show.
|
|
#
?
Jun 25, 2018 20:02
|
|
|
patonthebach posted:You think most sentences are too long in NA? Man, don't read about the length of time a typical sex offender or gang shooter gets in Canada. You might be surprised. The purpose of the justice system should be on rehabilitation, not retribution
|
|
#
?
Jun 25, 2018 20:06
|
|
|
A Typical Goon posted:The purpose of the justice system should be on rehabilitation, not retribution Generally yeah, if the person is able to be rehabilitated . Its starts getting real reckless fast when you look at the rates of recidivism of sex offenders after the 2nd incarceration of a sex crime. If they can't learn to control themselves and keep hurting others, at what point do we not consider the public safety that is being violated?
|
|
#
?
Jun 25, 2018 20:15
|
|
|
And before the voluntary sterilization crowd shows up, anything you agree to as an alternative to lifelong incarceration may not fit the strictest definition of "voluntary".
|
|
#
?
Jun 25, 2018 20:26
|
|
|
Furnaceface posted:I wish I could remember the name of it but we signed a treaty or bill or something years ago that prevents us from being a third party involved in immigration with the USA. So you could contact your MP about nixing that I guess. Thank you. I called, left a message. Quick and easy. Everyone should do the same assuming you're not represented by bootlicking scum. Would complain again.
|
|
#
?
Jun 25, 2018 20:30
|
|
|
A Typical Goon posted:The purpose of the justice system should be on rehabilitation, not retribution It should be about public safety. Which sometimes but not always means rehabilitation.
|
|
#
?
Jun 25, 2018 20:39
|
|
|
Isn't a lot of this the whole point of dangerous offender status? Like yeah in *theory* that dude who killed and ate the faces of a dozen people could get out at some point after 25 years if a board of psychiatrists and officials believe he's the new patron saint of reformed criminals, but it's super duper unlikely. But regardless, having a 1% chance of seeing daylight someday gives motivation for rehabilitation and a deterrent to not eat any more faces in prison.
|
|
#
?
Jun 25, 2018 20:59
|
|
|
I dunno, I mean, the dude that killed and ate someone's face on the greyhound is out and about
|
|
#
?
Jun 25, 2018 21:04
|
|
|
Yeah I mean that was only one face though.
|
|
#
?
Jun 25, 2018 21:06
|
|
|
Mr Luxury Yacht posted:Isn't a lot of this the whole point of dangerous offender status? "It already exists" is hardly a reason for legislators to not make another louder, stupider version.
|
|
#
?
Jun 25, 2018 21:10
|
|
|
ante posted:I dunno, I mean, the dude that killed and ate someone's face on the greyhound is out and about He was also found NCR at his trial
|
|
#
?
Jun 25, 2018 21:18
|
|
|
patonthebach posted:You think most sentences are too long in NA? Man, don't read about the length of time a typical sex offender or gang shooter gets in Canada. You might be surprised. Where are you getting this typical sentence for sex offender and gang member using a gun data?
|
|
#
?
Jun 25, 2018 21:22
|
|
|
I was recently at a conference abroad and, besides the expected clinical (human), preclinical (animal), and non-clinical (in vitro) research in the field there was also research on policy. One presentation highlighted "swift, certain, and modest" punitive actions as being effective deterrents for drinking and driving. I believe scholarly posters ITT have also argued that certitude (of getting caught, punishment) is a more effective deterrent than the magnitude (e.g. fines, incarceration). With respect to mosque shooter - or any other crime - the punition should be proportional to the harms, but if there's potential for rehabilitation it should be considered as well. Any accused could express regret in court. That doesn't mean down the line they'll be granted parole due to good behavior/reform/rehabilitation. I'd expect those conducting such assessments to have validated standards.
|
|
#
?
Jun 25, 2018 22:03
|
|
|
If I had a son who pled guilty to mass murder and I still felt love for him I like to think I would be begging for the court's mercy, not accusing the crown of a "political" agenda or making excuses for him. I know that many parents have basically disowned their children who committed murder, and I believe that my own parents would be more inclined to that mindset, but of course it's impossible to know. It's just that the specific content of Bissonnette's dad's statements indicate something more than a simple wish for clemency, imo. I think he knew about his son's extreme xenophobia and fostered it in the home. Hence the excuses and the claims of political persecution.
|
|
#
?
Jun 25, 2018 22:10
|
|
|
Admittedly I don't know how long a typical sentence or even what a typical criminal is charged with but I was looking at this guys sentence. I only looked it up since it was on the news and had a dashcam posted of him evading police in Calgary. These judge only cases on CANLII are typically only for summary/dual offenses that can imprison you up to 5 years, if someone is charged with an indictable offense that can imprison them for more than 5 years they have a right to a jury. 60 months/5 years for: possession of stolen property over and under 5000 about a dozen charges that are concurrent sentences. Dangerous driving Carrying a loaded handgun with a defaced serial, and a prohibited device (over capacity magazine) Assaulting a police officer
|
|
#
?
Jun 25, 2018 22:12
|
|
|
Chillyrabbit posted:Admittedly I don't know how long a typical sentence or even what a typical criminal is charged with but I was looking at this guys sentence. I only looked it up since it was on the news and had a dashcam posted of him evading police in Calgary. He's a first time offender, admitted drug user, pleaded guilty, enrolled in treatment programs voluntarily and also admitted that he is probably better off in jail because it would get him away from his criminal group of friends. 5 years sounds about right considering he will be 32 by the time he gets out.
|
|
#
?
Jun 25, 2018 22:19
|
|
|
Dude that stabbed the poo poo out of my aunt and uncle was out on parole after serving time for stabbing the poo poo out of someone else and after going to prison for almost killing my uncle and aunt did the exact same thing to an elderly couple in BC. Each time he was paroled it was against the recommendation of whoever was in charge of their psychiatric evaluation. I'm all for rehabilitation but that guy should have never been given his freedom again. Some people just become so broken the best thing to do is seperate them from the rest of us, for everyone's safety. It sucks but it's the way things go sometime.
|
|
#
?
Jun 25, 2018 23:31
|
|
|
EvilJoven posted:Dude that stabbed the poo poo out of my aunt and uncle was out on parole after serving time for stabbing the poo poo out of someone else and after going to prison for almost killing my uncle and aunt did the exact same thing to an elderly couple in BC. Yeah, habitual reoffenders are pretty unlikely and your experience with one dude isn't really a good reason to build an opinion on having a system that lets people be put in jail forever. Other people who have a tendency to commit more crime tend to be systematically over policed or impoverished, having long jail terms does nothing to prevent the likelyhood of these people committing crimes and steals years of their lives costing tax payers tens of thousands per head per year.
|
|
#
?
Jun 25, 2018 23:42
|
|
|
EvilJoven posted:Dude that stabbed the poo poo out of my aunt and uncle was out on parole after serving time for stabbing the poo poo out of someone else and after going to prison for almost killing my uncle and aunt did the exact same thing to an elderly couple in BC. Yeah our "one size fits all" criminal justice system really isn't ideal. Countless people who could easily be rehabilitated and are mostly suffering from the effects of poverty just get more hosed up in prison, people with severe mental health issues just keep similarly getting more hosed up through the prison system rather than helped or humanely separated from society by a robust mental health system, and horrible awful people who will 100% recommit are let out because a clock says they should be let out.
|
|
#
?
Jun 25, 2018 23:42
|
|
|
Laws and prisons sound good on paper, but when you realize they are implemented with dumb, cruel, corruptible humans, they rapidly lose their appeal
|
|
#
?
Jun 25, 2018 23:43
|
|
|
While I don't actually disagree with either of the points you (EDIT: EvilJoven) make, it's odd that you both acknowledge how much it sucks to be punished, in a sense, without due process, yet you are also angry about someone being released according to all applicable laws. There are going to be fuckups in the justice system because humans are very imperfect creatures; therefore, you have to select one of either: some people get unfairly railroaded, or some people are going to be released when they ideally wouldn't be. At the same time, I can absolutely understand how completely loving frustrating it would be to essentially catch the wrong side of both of those options in one lifetime, so don't take this as a personal criticism necessarily.
|
|
#
?
Jun 25, 2018 23:44
|
|
|
xtal posted:Laws and prisons sound good on paper, but when you realize they are implemented with dumb, cruel, corruptible humans, they rapidly lose their appeal What's your alternative?
|
|
#
?
Jun 26, 2018 00:31
|
|
|
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OH8s4N15zdg
|
|
#
?
Jun 26, 2018 00:38
|
|
|
Helsing posted:What's your alternative? "Don't get them started" -the rest of the thread
|
|
#
?
Jun 26, 2018 00:44
|
|
|
Actually, Xtal, I’ve been waiting for you to whip up an effort post explaining your ideological underpinnings because your one liners, while pithy, aren’t exactly “rigorous”.
|
|
#
?
Jun 26, 2018 01:50
|
|
|
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CVldfXHFlCU
|
|
#
?
Jun 26, 2018 02:40
|
|
|
Toalpaz posted:Yeah, habitual reoffenders are pretty unlikely Of first time offenders yeah. But I'd like to see the stats for 2nd or 3rd time sex offenders or perpetrators of serious violent crime.
|
|
#
?
Jun 26, 2018 02:43
|
|
|
https://www.cp24.com/news/siu-investigating-after-man-32-dies-after-barrie-arrest-1.3987865
|
|
#
?
Jun 26, 2018 02:54
|
|
|
xtal posted:Laws and prisons sound good on paper, but when you realize they are implemented with dumb, cruel, corruptible humans, they rapidly lose their appeal And yet a buncha wanna be venezuelans here still think anarchy or communism would be great despite that immutable fact of human nature. I like our system where we can kind of keep an eye on the worst people by funneling them into jobs like prison guards, canadian forces, policemen and Liberal politicians.
|
|
#
?
Jun 26, 2018 03:01
|
|
|
ah the old capitalism works because of human nature line. classic
|
|
#
?
Jun 26, 2018 03:20
|
|
|
It's less that capitalism works because of human nature and more that true communism doesn't work because of it. People generally need some form of personal motivating factor to make them want to do things.
|
|
#
?
Jun 26, 2018 03:34
|
|
|
Gulags are extremely motivating
|
|
#
?
Jun 26, 2018 03:36
|
|
|
the difference between capitalism and socialism is that socialism fails people but people fail capitalism
|
|
#
?
Jun 26, 2018 03:39
|
|
|
Hand Knit posted:the difference between capitalism and socialism is that socialism fails people but people fail capitalism In capitalism, it is people against people. Socialism is the other way around. Greed and corruption ruin both of them.
|
|
#
?
Jun 26, 2018 04:01
|
|
|
berenzen posted:It's less that capitalism works because of human nature and more that true communism doesn't work because of it. People generally need some form of personal motivating factor to make them want to do things. I can think of plenty of personal motivating factors for human beings besides the vain accumulation of money.
|
|
#
?
Jun 26, 2018 04:05
|
|
|
Sex, for example.
|
|
#
?
Jun 26, 2018 04:08
|
|
|
lol just lol if the sole motivating force in your life isn't the accumulation of things
|
|
#
?
Jun 26, 2018 04:32
|
|
|
Dukemont posted:I can think of plenty of personal motivating factors for human beings besides the vain accumulation of money. Sure, but every motivating factor for humans inevitably ruins communism. It's really loving hard to get people to be motivated when they don't recieve a level of prestige. I'm going to bring up York university here, because the topic came up when I was talking about the strike there with my father (a University of Alberta professor), and his point of view was pretty enlightening on what members of the academic community feel about that particular university. This isn't a disparagement against unions, or the legitimacy of their strike. More of a critique of that particular union's policies themselves, and how it's hurt the overall education and prestige of that university over a long period of time. So at York University, the Union has it set up so all professors are paid on a grid, based upon levels of education and time spent at the university. Seems fine, right? Except that there's no motivating factor for any levels of excellence at the university. A person that takes on 10 grad students, puts out 10 papers a year, and professor is paid the exact same amount as the person that has 1 grad student and puts out a paper every two years. As a result, there's been a steady decrease of academic legitimacy coming out of York university. Any high achieving professor will pass by York university for another institution like the UofA, UBC, UofT etc; or will use York University as a stepping stone for a better career. As a result, the quality of education provided by York university has slowly been degraded. Instead of having top-tier educators, you end up with incredibly mediocre ones instead. All because of a lack of a reward structure in the name of equity. Compare this to something like the UofA, where there is a system based upon merit to determine yearly pay raises. You get yearly pay raises at the UofA for the number of graduate students you teach, the number of peer-reviewed academic papers published in journals-based upon academic significance of the journal- and classes taught where the students thought you were a good professor. As a result, you see an increase in the number of quality academics. That's not to say that the system can't get hosed up, or that there's no terrible teachers. The genetics department at the University of Alberta is a really good example of this, because the hiring chairs of the genetics department are actively trying to not hire people with talent because it'll reveal them for being mediocre. But in general the system works the way it's supposed to. The union at York University has created a system that doesn't encourage exceptionalism, as as such, doesn't receive any. Tighclops posted:lol just lol if the sole motivating force in your life isn't the accumulation of things Generally people's motivations is the improvement of the quality of life of them and the people they care about, it's not that hard to understand.
|
|
#
?
Jun 26, 2018 04:53
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 14, 2024 17:56 |
|
|
berenzen posted:Sure, but every motivating factor for humans inevitably ruins communism. It's really loving hard to get people to be motivated when they don't recieve a level of prestige. I'm going to bring up York university here, because the topic came up when I was talking about the strike there with my father (a University of Alberta professor), and his point of view was pretty enlightening on what members of the academic community feel about that particular university. This isn't a disparagement against unions, or the legitimacy of their strike. More of a critique of that particular union's policies themselves, and how it's hurt the overall education and prestige of that university over a long period of time. Wasn’t expecting something this bad... 
|
|
#
?
Jun 26, 2018 05:06
|
|