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VideoGameVet posted:The most fanatic Trump supporters I know are also Israel-Firsters and Jewish and sadly relatives of my wife. Isn't the whole theology of the American "support" for Israel that in the end days the righteous can destroy the Israelites in a holy war?
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Jun 28, 2018 19:41
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steinrokkan posted:Isn't the whole theology of the American "support" for Israel that in the end days the righteous can destroy the Israelites in a holy war? That exists but it gets overstated on these forums alot. American right-wing support for Israel is mostly just leftover cold war politics and anti-Arab racism and antisemitism all mixed together in weird ways.
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Jun 28, 2018 19:45
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steinrokkan posted:Isn't the whole theology of the American "support" for Israel that in the end days the righteous can destroy the Israelites in a holy war? On the Christian Fundi side, yes. The right-wing Trump-loving Jews (a minority, fyi) its more like supporting what Bibi likes.
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Jun 28, 2018 20:22
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VideoGameVet posted:On the Christian Fundi side, yes. The right-wing Trump-loving Jews (a minority, fyi) its more like supporting what Bibi likes. Yeah, but the Trump supporting Jews are just a drop in the sea of crazy evangelists, no? Nebalebadingdong posted:That exists but it gets overstated on these forums alot. American right-wing support for Israel is mostly just leftover cold war politics and anti-Arab racism and antisemitism all mixed together in weird ways. I realize that, but at the same time the religious hosed up influence over American politics can't be denied.
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Jun 28, 2018 20:29
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steinrokkan posted:Yeah, but the Trump supporting Jews are just a drop in the sea of crazy evangelists, no? Only in that American Jews aren't that big a chunk of the US population, and right-wing American Jews are a minority of the American Jewish population. The American Jewish right is completely behind Trump, though, including organizations such as the Orthodox Union and the Republican Jewish Congress.
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Jun 29, 2018 00:27
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Just loving imagine how dumb you have to be to be a Jewish person backing Trump. Like, woooo. Real dumb.
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Jun 29, 2018 00:37
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No dumber than a coal worker who thinks the Don cares about him.
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Jun 29, 2018 00:42
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No, it actually is significantly dumber.
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Jun 29, 2018 00:48
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By popular demand posted:No dumber than a coal worker who thinks the Don cares about him. more people stream than there are coal miners in this entire country.
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Jun 30, 2018 08:53
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It's a stand-in for any obsolete/relocated industry worker, smartass.
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Jun 30, 2018 09:26
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Great, so your comment was nonsense in several ways. Thanks for clarifying.
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Jun 30, 2018 14:06
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Maybe less coal workers than people who are... coal mining... fans?
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Jun 30, 2018 14:12
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By popular demand posted:It's a stand-in for any obsolete/relocated industry worker, smartass. What's really funny is that I'm from a part of the country that has a reputation for having a disproportionate number of miners or whatever but I have never met a single one in my life. I really hate this narrative tbh and it's nothing personal but I challenge the whole idea that trump's real base of support is rural america/down in the holler because those people don't vote and even if they did support president deals they're not politically useful.
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Jun 30, 2018 15:38
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Maybe you're right, I've never lived in the united states and all my information is second hand at best. Now can we re-focus on how hosed up is Israel? I've yet to meet a single person who will openly admit that the shooting the Gaza protesters is horrible beyond any possible justification.
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Jun 30, 2018 15:48
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I started reading kingdom of ashes and olives recently and it's good.
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Jun 30, 2018 17:12
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Thanks, I'll definitely buy it for my Kindle. Also: book of numbers posted:They told the Israelites, 'The land that we crossed to explore is a land that consumes its inhabitants.' I'm really sick of this devouring land, this Nazi in anything but name ethnostate. Which is why I'm making gradual plans to emigrate to Canada, anybody feels like linking me to a relevant thread?
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Jun 30, 2018 17:31
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By popular demand posted:Thanks, I'll definitely buy it for my Kindle. I know Israelis who immigrated to Canada irl, but I've never seen a thread about the practicalities of immigration in the forums. Feels like it might fit in BFC.
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Jun 30, 2018 17:35
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By popular demand posted:Which is why I'm making gradual plans to emigrate to Canada, anybody feels like linking me to a relevant thread?
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Jun 30, 2018 20:37
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Apparently Israel is banning condoms from Gaza. The condom balloons apparently managed to take out 10 drones.
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Jul 1, 2018 13:39
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Jaeluni Asjil posted:Apparently Israel is banning condoms from Gaza. I'd say this was ludicrous but we've heard about the sort of poo poo they banned before like A4 sized paper, Tupperware containers and fishing rods.
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Jul 1, 2018 14:04
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Sorry, I meant terrorism planning sheets, explosive contanment tubs and insurgent food retrieval technology.
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Jul 1, 2018 14:06
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Not Operator posted:I'd say this was ludicrous but we've heard about the sort of poo poo they banned before like A4 sized paper, Tupperware containers and fishing rods. Also, and I realise that this is from the Israeli press so the usual caveats apply (seriously, some of the phrasing in that article is remarkable), they’ve apparently been causing some significant damage. Airborne incendiaries during a dry spell = a lot of toasted farmland.
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Jul 1, 2018 14:09
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Darth Walrus posted:Also, and I realise that this is from the Israeli press so the usual caveats apply, they’ve apparently been causing some significant damage. Airborne incendiaries during a dry spell = a lot of toasted farmland. If only the area's most advanced army had some way to defend itself against kites and condoms. Alas, they'll just have to ban those things completely and gun down anybody who approaches their multi million dollar fence that has sniper towers on it.
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Jul 1, 2018 14:11
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Darth Walrus posted:Also, and I realise that this is from the Israeli press so the usual caveats apply (seriously, some of the phrasing in that article is remarkable), they’ve apparently been causing some significant damage. Airborne incendiaries during a dry spell = a lot of toasted farmland. Rather than the overall amount of damage, I think it's more the fact that they're facing political pressure because there's nothing the IDF can do to stop it. Some of these balloons are going quite far, but there's no warning sirens and no anti-condom rocket system, so there's a sense of unstoppable threat that hasn't really been felt for a while. Their attempts to use drones and planes to shoot them down have been an utter failure, and the IDF's usual practice of bombing random spots in Gaza as punishment for Palestinian attacks isn't seriously expected to work.
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Jul 1, 2018 14:25
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Not Operator posted:Sorry, I meant terrorism planning sheets, explosive contanment tubs and insurgent food retrieval technology. "Insurgent food retrieval" - my friend was 'farming' rabbits on his parents' balcony during the 2014 lawn mowing campaign - imagine the damage they could do if they got loose and went down a tunnel.... hm... 
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Jul 1, 2018 14:29
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Not Operator posted:Sorry, I meant terrorism planning sheets, explosive contanment tubs and insurgent food retrieval technology. They're not as imaginative, they just use "terror" as a prefix for everything.
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Jul 1, 2018 14:42
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But banning condoms will just increase the production of
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Jul 1, 2018 15:54
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Just wait until the IDF learns that you can use ordinary spectacles to start terror fires. And books! They're just fuel for these fires! And what about pencils?! Would you like to face off a pencil wielding mob when all you have is artillery, small arms, tanks, attack craft (air and sea)?! I thought so. 
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Jul 1, 2018 21:17
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Main Paineframe posted:so there's a sense of unstoppable threat that hasn't really been felt for a while. good
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Jul 1, 2018 22:01
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Volkerball posted:Yeah and they'll find any excuse to slander any opposition towards the occupation. It doesn't matter what BDS does, they were always going to be labeled as anti-semitic on principle because they don't kiss Likud's rear end. There's no alternate way to go about pushing for Israel to be ostracized from the global community a la South Africa to incentivize them to do right by the Palestinians that would avoid those criticisms. Yours is a bad argument. Being anti-occupation and anti-BDS is the majoritarian position. BDS is not labeled anti-Semitic because they "don't kiss Likud's rear end", it's because it frequently veers into anti-Semitic garbage like calling out "Zios", claiming that Jews unduly influence world affairs, and claiming that Jews are Khazars and hence have no historical ties to the Middle East. We've seen groups like JVP waffle on calling out outright anti-Semites like Gilad Atzmon. We've seen Tamika Mallory and Shaun King celebrate Louis Farrakhan. Furthermore, BDS is disproportionate, and it discriminates on the basis of national origin. (I know this won't win any points with you given your lust for bombing Iran, but I oppose sanctions on Iran for similar reasons.) It's also terrible for a myriad of other reasons, including Finkelstein's argument, which is indeed one I have cited many times. The anti-"normalization" stuff is especially gross, as is the de-facto support for permanent conflict. Orange Devil posted:Before BDS we talked for how many years about the latest atrocities perpetrated by Israel? And last I checked that did jack poo poo, so eh. BDS ultimately is a blip either way, but has to be opposed for moral reasons. There was demonstrable progress in the 90s towards peace, progress that the BDS movement (and similar anti-peace movements like Likud) strongly disavow and oppose. It's a movement that desires a full on, hot, active conflict. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Jul 2, 2018 00:14
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Kim Jong Il posted:Yours is a bad argument. Being anti-occupation and anti-BDS is the majoritarian position. So you linked to this website that's supposedly dedicated to a left wing but anti-BDS position - you know, a position that is a minority in Israel. In what way is this a majoritarian position? I see no evidence for that in the website, either, only links to milquetoast position papers and calls to donate.
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Jul 2, 2018 00:31
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Kim Jong Il posted:calling out "Zios", claiming that Jews unduly influence world affairs, and claiming that Jews are Khazars and hence have no historical ties to the Middle East. We've seen groups like JVP waffle on calling out outright anti-Semites like Gilad Atzmon. We've seen Tamika Mallory and Shaun King celebrate Louis Farrakhan. Furthermore, BDS is disproportionate, and it discriminates on the basis of national origin. Can you provide any examples of these particular things, done in the name of the BDS movement or by individual persons who represent BDS in some way?
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Jul 2, 2018 00:39
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Kim Jong Il posted:There was demonstrable progress in the 90s towards peace 
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Jul 2, 2018 00:54
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https://twitter.com/GarySpedding/status/1013525112451162117
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Jul 2, 2018 01:05
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Absurd Alhazred posted:So you linked to this website that's supposedly dedicated to a left wing but anti-BDS position - you know, a position that is a minority in Israel. In what way is this a majoritarian position? I see no evidence for that in the website, either, only links to milquetoast position papers and calls to donate. It's the most popular position internationally, in American Jewry, and with American Zionists. captainblastum posted:Can you provide any examples of these particular things, done in the name of the BDS movement or by individual persons who represent BDS in some way? I can't personally verify that everyone who does is, but I doubt they're doing that because they love Israel. The "Zio" stuff is pretty common, read the comments on Mondoweiss and Electronic Intifada for example, or search on Twitter for Israel + Zios. Electronic Intifada has defended using the term. Khazars pop up occasionally, including from Mahmoud Abbas, who is not a BDS supporter, but said multiple times over the past year that Jews have no ties to the Middle East. And certainly there have been many attempts on the Zionist side to minimalize Palestinian historical complaints, which I also condemn. https://www.independent.co.uk/student/news/oxford-university-labour-club-co-chair-alex-chalmers-resigns-amid-anti-semitism-row-a6878826.html quote:“Whether it be members of the executive throwing around the term ‘Zio’ (a term for Jews usually confined to websites run by the Ku Klux Klan) with casual abandon, senior members of the club expressing their ‘solidarity’ with Hamas and explicitly defending their tactics of indiscriminately murdering civilians, or a former co-chair claiming that ‘most accusations of anti-Semitism are just the Zionists crying wolf’, a large proportion of both OULC and the student left in Oxford, more generally, have some kind of problem with Jews.” https://www.tabletmag.com/scroll/251691/is-the-bds-movement-failing-depends-on-your-definition-of-success quote:Kareem el-Hosseiny, a government relations coordinator for the pro-boycott American Muslims for Palestine, tells a Maryland pro-BDS activist that a speech she gave “terrified the Zios.” Among other things, the video demonstrates there’s a degree of outside guidance for campus BDS efforts. With JVP and Atzmon, I misremembered, it's actually Alison Weir is the anti-Semite they walked back from condemning, not Atzmon. Speaking of Mondoweiss, I've posted before about how he's a loving lunatic who loves claiming that Jews have disproportionate influence. Tamika Mallory and Shaun King are both loud BDS supporters. Mallory is unequivocally anti-Semitic, accusing her critics of being "enemies of Jesus". King is not an anti-Semite, and honestly his defenses of Farrakhan come off as more trolling than anything, but the position of both is roughly that Farrakhan and the NOI do good work in the black community and have to be judged proportionately, which is, well, more than a little inconsistent.
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Jul 2, 2018 01:23
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Kim Jong Il posted:It's the most popular position internationally, in American Jewry, and with American Zionists. It's by far not the most popular position among the citizens of Israel, the country in which these policy decisions are made. It also isn't a position whose enforcement is currently resulting in any pressure on Israel - on the contrary, the US just gave the annexation position a huge gift by moving the embassy to Jerusalem, so there's no outside pressure to actually adhere to this position, irrespective of local support. Hell, this same majority of American Jewry and American Zionists fights tooth and nail against any kind of outside pressure. So where does that leave us? That's right, with your link being irrelevant and your arguments being useless, as usual.
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Jul 2, 2018 01:28
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Kim Jong Il posted:It's the most popular position internationally, in American Jewry, and with American Zionists. You're making specific and serious accusations about the BDS movement, and you should back that up with actual evidence, not comment sections.
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Jul 2, 2018 01:31
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If he can't back those claims up he's going in the gulag in a few hours
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Jul 2, 2018 08:45
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Kim Jong Il posted:It's the most popular position internationally, in American Jewry, and with American Zionists. Kim Jong Il posted:I can't personally verify that everyone who does is, but I doubt they're doing that because they love Israel. The "Zio" stuff is pretty common, read the comments on Mondoweiss and Electronic Intifada for example, or search on Twitter for Israel + Zios. Electronic Intifada has defended using the term. Kim Jong Il posted:https://www.independent.co.uk/student/news/oxford-university-labour-club-co-chair-alex-chalmers-resigns-amid-anti-semitism-row-a6878826.html Again, not shown to be the mainstream position in those organisations. Also, 9 times out of 10 it IS zionists crying antisemitism wolf when Israel is criticized. That Alison Weir article is really pulling stuff out of its rear end by the way. Most of the criticisms there don't come off as antisemitic right off the bat to me, but as anti-israel. At best you've shown that some supporters might be anti-semitic (if we accept that premise, I'm not following up on ALL your poo poo because the half I did on was super disingenuous so gently caress you) and not that the organisations are built to be anti-semitic and are shielding themselves by purporting to be anti-israel. Honestly, I don't even know why I put any effort into this poo poo anymore, you loving troll.
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Jul 2, 2018 09:42
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Kim Jong Il posted:read the comments on Mondoweiss and Electronic Intifada for example Kim Jong Il posted:who is not a BDS supporter Kim Jong Il posted:both loud BDS supporters You're basically saying that BDS should spend all their resources on monitoring the behavior of people who support them, and somehow forbid the unruly from supporting them, instead of doing what they're supposed to be doing. And then you pretend to wonder why you're called a disingenuous troll.
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Jul 2, 2018 10:16
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