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If you're interested in a video with a bit more specific detail on CRISPR, this one is good.
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Jul 4, 2018 22:52
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Zazz Razzamatazz posted:
Yes, don't ever use one of those DNA testing agencies because they own whatever you send them and then they resell your info to whoever. Also they are really bad at giving you consistent results.
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Jul 4, 2018 23:15
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tarlibone posted:I didn't know bio-hacking with CRISPR was a thing. Or CRISPR, really. I would honestly have no problem if autism could be solved using some genetic engineering, I would love it because then people wouldn't have to suffer the stuff (granted I'm very borderline and don't really suffer that much) I have gone through.
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Jul 4, 2018 23:37
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LOL if you could just inject something to cure yourself of genetic mental health issues like Bipolar or Schizo-effective that would be loving nuts
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Jul 5, 2018 00:06
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i want enhanced muscles so i can jump higher and run really fast
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Jul 5, 2018 03:28
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also i would inject myself with a crisper that gives me retractable claws from my hands
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Jul 5, 2018 03:30
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Phenotype posted:i want enhanced muscles so i can jump higher and run really fast Phenotype posted:also i would inject myself with a crisper that gives me retractable claws from my hands You can have all this, but you'll also go color blind and grow a cloaca.
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Jul 5, 2018 03:41
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achillesforever6 posted:The furries will be spending so much money when splicing becomes a thing! As somebody who is coming from a similar position as you (in regards to being on the spectrum but being extremely minor) I am not quite sure how I feel about that idea. From a logical standpoint I completely agree that it is something that would be great if future generations didn't have to deal with. From an emotional standpoint I feel much more conflicted about the issue as the idea of something that has come to define the person I have grown up into being something that needs to be solved makes me feel kind of uneasy.
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Jul 5, 2018 04:54
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That is a real weird territory, much like how some blind or deaf people resent their disabilities being cured. It enriches lives but may reduce diversity. Of course the only other place I've seen that argued is with pro-lifers.
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Jul 5, 2018 05:43
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If CRISPR can grant me Electro Bolt or Incinerate!, then sure. Autism-spectrum poo poo feels way more about enforcing normative social rules, though. I guess it breaks down to who’s making that choice...an individual, their parents, the medical establishment, etc.
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Jul 5, 2018 05:55
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Sivart13 posted:people might also triangulate on your serial killer relatives using DNA you provided, so watch out if you or anyone in your family has been doing any serial killing I don't see this as a bad thing. But I also hate a decent portion of my family.
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Jul 5, 2018 05:57
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We already select out detectable crippling flaws. Gene modification door is open. It is a question of how far down the hall we go as get get better at it and how we will deal with the inevitable blowback.
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Jul 5, 2018 08:49
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Yeah the main thing people are worried about when it comes to genetic modification pre-birth (or genetic modification that will be inherited) is how far people could potentially go with it. Like nobody is really going to complain if people are able to filter out genetic disorders that would normally result in the pregnancy just being terminated, but it gets a bit fuzzier with genetic disorders that people DO live with. Especially ones like autism where it's as much a cultural thing as it is a mental thing. Obviously the extreme case would be Nazi-like "genetic purity" but I don't think that's actually a realistic worry about the technology (not that there aren't people that would want to do it - just that it's unlikely to ever become popular). Of course it's entirely possible that we may decide that modifying our species itself is a bit beyond what we're willing to do, and stick to non-inheritable genetic treatments. They could all be used for the exact same things, but it would then be up to the individual's discretion whether or not they actually get the treatment.
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Jul 5, 2018 10:12
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Skippy McPants posted:You can have all this, but you'll also go color blind and grow a cloaca.
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Jul 5, 2018 14:34
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Skippy McPants posted:You can have all this, but you'll also go color blind and grow a cloaca. are the supposed to be downsides or
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Jul 5, 2018 14:38
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The Cheshire Cat posted:Obviously the extreme case would be Nazi-like "genetic purity" but I don't think that's actually a realistic worry about the technology (not that there aren't people that would want to do it - just that it's unlikely to ever become popular). Think again.
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Jul 5, 2018 15:14
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What about stuff like a black couple wanting their child to have lighter skin tones than they do so their kid has to deal with less colorism or racism? The volume of ethical quandaries is staggering
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Jul 5, 2018 15:20
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Bust Rodd posted:What about stuff like a black couple wanting their child to have lighter skin tones than they do so their kid has to deal with less colorism or racism? Yeah, like imagine how the world is about women and makeup, ("oh of course you don't have to wear it, but it looks more professional, and just nicer, and you don't want to look like a slob, do you?" and then women internalising that and policing themselves to wear makeup even when their political views say they shouldn't have to), but about designer genetics. It would be so easy for people to get sucked into a situation where whatever the genetic "norm" is determined to be becomes highly sought after and a status symbol, while those who can't afford to give their baby blue eyes or whatever are seen as off-beat or low class. This would have disastrous consequences not just socially, but for the biodiversity of the human species.
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Jul 5, 2018 15:40
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If people are able to pick their children’s genetics then you know the first thing that happens is a ton of white boys are born because society doesn’t like women or people of color. Then you end up with population problems like China and Japan.
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Jul 5, 2018 15:47
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Invalid Validation posted:If people are able to pick their children’s genetics then you know the first thing that happens is a ton of white boys are born because society doesn’t like women or people of color. Then you end up with population problems like China and Japan. Assuming the technology ever works as planned and hoped, then yeah, I could totally see minorities who can afford to do so designing their kids to look and, well, be white. I can also see those kids being ostracized by others of their "real race" (or whatever we'd call the race that a kid would have been born as without genetic editing), something of an "Uncle Tom" scenario on steroids. Sooner or later, some white people would probably start having African (or Hispanic or Asian or whatever-ian) babies to combat the whitewashing of America. Then, it would become a fad, and every rich white person would want to show off their new black/Asian baby. After a while, you would not be able to tell what race someone really was, or even if there really is such a thing as a "real" race now that it can be selected ahead of time. So it could lead to the end of racism! Or it could lead to Brundleflies. I agree that fixing genetic issues that cause actual harm would probably be a good thing. But the line between what every reasonable person considers a sickness to be cured, and things that aren't necessarily a sickness at all, is wide and nebulous. tarlibone fucked around with this message at 16:27 on Jul 5, 2018 |
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Jul 5, 2018 16:24
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It turns out that sci-fi films without minority characters are actually predicting the future and not just lazy casting. 
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Jul 5, 2018 17:22
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Honestly the most realistic take on genetic editing in movies is probably Gataca with the "genetic screening for jobs is technically illegal but we'll have you take this optional test and if you refuse we'll conveniently just not call you back" thing. It's like how refusing to hire someone based on race or gender is illegal but it totally does happen because it's very easy to find some other excuse as to why they didn't get the job.
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Jul 5, 2018 17:32
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tarlibone posted:Assuming the technology ever works as planned and hoped, then yeah, I could totally see minorities who can afford to do so designing their kids to look and, well, be white. I can also see those kids being ostracized by others of their "real race" (or whatever we'd call the race that a kid would have been born as without genetic editing), something of an "Uncle Tom" scenario on steroids. Doesn't India, China and South-East Asia have a big problem with whitening dodgy creams even today? Imagine introducing gene modification in this little super concept. I love people of color and the world would be stupid looking without them 
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Jul 5, 2018 17:51
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In all honesty, it's a tsunami that we cannot possibly hope to stem in the long term. So the US will ban certain types of alterations or research. Unless the US wants to commit to military intervention with other countries, it's likely that some part of the world will allow the research and changes. Even if we manage to put a lid on that, technology keeps getting cheaper and more accessible so the biohacker industry becomes more prevalent and successful. We can pass laws trying to prevent discrimination based on genetic backgrounds, but designer genes are inevitable in the long term. All of this is likely decades or centuries after our children's deaths, but it's going to come and it's going to be next to impossible to regulate without extreme authoritarian measures.
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Jul 5, 2018 18:08
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I really cronenberged the world up, didn't I? We got a whole planet of cronenbergs walking around down there, Morty.
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Jul 5, 2018 18:11
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I never had confused feelings about Inque from Batman Beyond! I don't even know why you'd accuse a person of that. That's definitely not anybody's ideal genetic abomination.
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Jul 5, 2018 18:25
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bull3964 posted:In all honesty, it's a tsunami that we cannot possibly hope to stem in the long term. With things the way they are now, the US will start using it for ethnic cleansing and that's how we become the bad guys in WWIII.
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Jul 5, 2018 18:30
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IRQ posted:With things the way they are now, the US will start using it for ethnic cleansing and that's how we become the bad guys in WWIII. It's going to be really ironic when WW3 is a democratic Germany against a fascist US and Russia.
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Jul 5, 2018 18:42
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And then Britain will save America's rear end because they need some kind of trading partner and Europe is out, so the Simpsons will have jokingly predicted one more thing that somehow turned out to come true despite how ridiculous it was supposed to be.
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Jul 5, 2018 19:37
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tsob posted:And then Britain will save America's rear end because they need some kind of trading partner and Europe is out, so the Simpsons will have jokingly predicted one more thing that somehow turned out to come true despite how ridiculous it was supposed to be. I have always wondered just how much did the Simpsons writers who wrote the Trump joke drink after he got elected.
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Jul 5, 2018 19:52
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Hunt11 posted:I have always wondered just how much did the Simpsons writers who wrote the Trump joke drink after he got elected. We'll have to wait for him to stop to find out.
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Jul 5, 2018 20:01
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ZorajitZorajit posted:I never had confused feelings about Inque from Batman Beyond! I don't even know why you'd accuse a person of that. That's definitely not anybody's ideal genetic abomination. Huh, if you take Inque, the splicing episode, the one episode where a terrorist organization is trying to accelerate global warming and wipe out most of humanity so that they could turn themselves into dinosaur men and rule the earth, and the secret backstory episode of Justice League where it turns out that Terry's dad was secretly genetically altered to give his progeny Bruce Wayne's DNA, that was a really commonly reoccurring theme in the show.
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Jul 6, 2018 05:22
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Can genes be modified for race? To a certain extent sure, but race itself has proven famously impossible for geneticists to suss out.
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Jul 6, 2018 08:27
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Propaganda Machine posted:Can genes be modified for race? To a certain extent sure, but race itself has proven famously impossible for geneticists to suss out. "Race" is a social construct, and ethnicity is a combination of many traits which together form a broad archetype in the range of what is typical for members of a historically concentrated population. There's no like, white person gene, but there are genes for melanin production and lactose tolerance that, in a broad swathe of people whose ancestors are from (for example) Northern Europe, tend to be organised a certain way. That's what geneticists mean when they say race isn't a useful scientific term, and it's broadly true. Ethnicity is only useful on the macro scale, not the individual, because individuals have variations, and there's no firm border on which traits are "ethnic" traits other than their degree of incidence among a population, which fundamentally isn't a reliable metric. If you try to establish ethnicity as a collection of genetic traits, there will always be individuals who one would intuitively define as being part of the same ethnicity that don't share all of those traits. There's really no firm border on when a person is "genetically" one ethnicity or the other, just a collection of generalised patterns. This is why it's thought of as a weak method of categorisation. However, it would still be entirely possible to switch melanin production from "high" to "low" and eye colour from "brown" to "blue", effectively creating a new ethnicity that just happened to outwardly resemble a white person. Broadly speaking the individual genes determining those traits are known.
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Jul 6, 2018 09:05
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Propaganda Machine posted:Can genes be modified for race? To a certain extent sure, but race itself has proven famously impossible for geneticists to suss out. Eh, "race" means a variety of things depending on context, like "geographically isolated breeding groups of the same species," so within this context I don't think the concept makes sense. It's not something that geneticists "suss out."
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Jul 6, 2018 09:09
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Android Blues posted:"Race" is a social construct, and ethnicity is a combination of many traits which together form a broad archetype in the range of what is typical for members of a historically concentrated population. There's no like, white person gene, but there are genes for melanin production and lactose tolerance that, in a broad swathe of people whose ancestors are from (for example) Northern Europe, tend to be organised a certain way. Awesome post, thanks. It mostly confirms what I thought but it does clarify a bit. I mean, I listened to the relevant Radiolab episode in 2011. Honestly, this way of thinking of the CRISPR stuff is even more messed up. Not only do you have the potential issue of "oh, you have dark kids, you must be a poor," but you go straight to "ah, it's good that you could manage the white and blonde and blue, but it's just such a shame about those curls. Is there at least some product s/he could use at least to tone it down a bit?"
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Jul 6, 2018 09:18
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Biohacking and genetic alterations are going to be a horrible bane in the coming years. China and India have a shocking amount of access to a lot of people that are at the very bottom of the "people given a poo poo about" list, and this poo poo is going to be way nastier than the illicit organ trade/theft problem. It wouldn't shock me in the slightest if China didn't try to sequence and archive its entire population's genome, simply because they *could*.
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Jul 6, 2018 09:53
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India already has a market for cosmetic products to lighten skin, it's not hard to imagine people over there taking the next step. I wonder if a prevalence in genetic modification could lead to certain DNA sequences becoming too popular, leading to incest-style mutations in the next generation or two.
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Jul 6, 2018 19:28
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If you have brown eyes, you can make them blue through a fairly simple process of pigment removal. It doesn’t work the other way around though and it’s permanent.
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Jul 6, 2018 20:12
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Xealot posted:Autism-spectrum poo poo feels way more about enforcing normative social rules, though. I guess it breaks down to who’s making that choice...an individual, their parents, the medical establishment, etc. If you're talking about that which was formerly known as Asperger's, maybe. For more severe cases where the person would never be able to care for themselves or otherwise do much of anything with their lives, you'd have a much harder time playing the diversity card. The problem is that even if there does turn out to be some genetic cause for autism, there's no guarantee that that would allow for accurately determining where a future child would fall on the spectrum.
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Jul 7, 2018 00:49
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