|
Hihohe posted:Wasnt there a story in the Genestealer book where the Patriarch sees the Tyranid bioships making landfall and when he tries to embrace his "child" he gets cut down because they have connected with the hive mind? It's one of the best fluff pieces GW have written recently, showing the true nature of a 'stealer cult in a very short story. 
|
#
?
Jul 7, 2018 20:22
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 15, 2024 13:54 |
|
|
xtothez posted:It's one of the best fluff pieces GW have written recently, showing the true nature of a 'stealer cult in a very short story. Such are the just rewards of xenophillia.
|
|
#
?
Jul 7, 2018 20:35
|
|
|
What color scheme should I use for this Talos?
|
|
#
?
Jul 7, 2018 20:37
|
|
|
Duct Tape posted:In Kill Team, why are Genestealer Cults a separate faction than Tyranids? Other than basic lore, I know little about either. I thought Genestealers were a sort of first-strike troop for Tyranid fleets, so why have them as an entirely separate faction? Ultimately it's because the way that infiltrated Genestealers work, is that they corrupt members of the local population, and their descendants are part of the local hive mind. Hence the name "Genestealer", because they're replacing the host's DNA with their own. What that means from an army standpoint is that the various Genestealer hybrids will use scavenged Imperial weaponry rather than exclusively bio-weapons like true Tyranids. In previous editions this went as far as essentially playing Imperial Guard....but with Genestealer elites! These days they've deviated some, having unique weapons and vehicles like the Trucks and Rockgrinders along with a limited array of Guard gear. Russes, but not all the turret options, Chimeras but not Tauroxes, no artillery, etc. They are, therefore, very distinct from Tyranids when placed on the battlefield, relying more on ambushes than either swarms or big monsters the way the 'Nids do. From a lore standpoint they're different because the 'Nids will either eat the GSC along with everyone else, or the GSC will run for it and go infest some other world. In either case they very rarely fight alongside the 'Nids. Indeed, its not unusual for GSC whose original Genestealers came from a different Hive Fleet than the one invading the planet to fight against the invading swarms...not that it usually does them much good in the end. From a financial standpoint, GW loves sub-factions...look at how many different Marine chapters get their own special snowflake rules...because it lets them sell more books to more players. That said, what surprises me is how little they've done with the GSC compared to what they could do. After all, there's no reason why Genestealers are limited to humans for infection targets. There should be Tau, Eldar, and Ork GSC varients. If the GSC were a more successful faction, I suspect they'd do just that, but like the Sisters of Battle, there just doesn't seem to be enough player support to make that something GW is willing to support anytime soon. No Crisis Suits backed up by Genestealers, I'm afraid. 
|
|
#
?
Jul 7, 2018 20:42
|
|
|
Legendary Ptarmigan posted:The inceptor box only has two. The "third" one has the shield raised showing a regular primaris helmet underneath. I have 3- sent you an email. I also have a poo poo ton of Riever skullheads if anyone is interested.
|
|
#
?
Jul 7, 2018 20:43
|
|
|
jng2058 posted:That said, what surprises me is how little they've done with the GSC compared to what they could do. After all, there's no reason why Genestealers are limited to humans for infection targets. There should be Tau, Eldar, and Ork GSC varients. If the GSC were a more successful faction, I suspect they'd do just that, but like the Sisters of Battle, there just doesn't seem to be enough player support to make that something GW is willing to support anytime soon. No Crisis Suits backed up by Genestealers, I'm afraid.
|
|
#
?
Jul 7, 2018 20:53
|
|
|
SRM posted:There were Rogue Trader models for GSC Orks but you’d end up with a weird faction that would need to be split up further - GSC Orks and GSC Tau wouldn’t hang with GSC humans in the same army. Eh, you've got the Gue'vesa humans who work for the Tau, so you could get human and Tau mixed GSC. If you really wanted to get expansive, you could make the argument that the Patriarch's hive mind over-rode the natural inclinations of the hosts and made 'em work together. It'd be kinda weird, and would make for a very eclectic list, but it could be done. I mean there's not much chance it will be done, but if GW ran out of old factions to Codex up, the cracks could be papered over.
|
|
#
?
Jul 7, 2018 20:59
|
|
|
I'd just like them to do a better job differentiating GSCs from "Shadowswords with Genestealers". I really like the mining aesthetic and think it worked, it had a Necromunda feel to it, sort of. 
|
|
#
?
Jul 7, 2018 21:02
|
|
|
SRM posted:There were Rogue Trader models for GSC Orks but you’d end up with a weird faction that would need to be split up further - GSC Orks and GSC Tau wouldn’t hang with GSC humans in the same army. There were also Khornate Genestealer Cults, making things even more wacky. 
|
|
#
?
Jul 7, 2018 21:04
|
|
|
Two Beans posted:There were also Khornate Genestealer Cults, making things even more wacky. I miss those rockin' limos with Genestealers hiding in back!
|
|
#
?
Jul 7, 2018 21:10
|
|
|
The only cheap rear end made in China 40k terrain GW sells rn is the Moon Base Klaisus kit. Compare that with a sector mechanicus sprue and understand how misguided you are
|
|
#
?
Jul 7, 2018 21:16
|
|
|
OhDearGodNo posted:I have 3- sent you an email. I could be interested if postage isn't a killer. Where are you? Email me: z4miniatures AT googlemail DOT com
|
|
#
?
Jul 7, 2018 21:17
|
|
|
Painted up the first of my Helverins sporting its custom gatlings. Also technically the first on my 40k dudes I've fully painted, my bare/primed AdMech languishing shamefully.
|
|
#
?
Jul 7, 2018 21:52
|
|
|
Ayn Marx posted:The only cheap rear end made in China 40k terrain GW sells rn is the Moon Base Klaisus kit. Compare that with a sector mechanicus sprue and understand how misguided you are I think the void shield generator is as well, or at least it was.
|
|
#
?
Jul 7, 2018 22:22
|
|
|
darnon posted:Painted up the first of my Helverins sporting its custom gatlings. Also technically the first on my 40k dudes I've fully painted, my bare/primed AdMech languishing shamefully. Awesome colourscheme, and I like the avian head! I do urge you to drill slightly larger barrels though. It can be a pain on gatling-type weapons, but it makes a real improvement.
|
|
#
?
Jul 7, 2018 22:23
|
|
|
GuardianOfAsgaard posted:I think the void shield generator is as well, or at least it was. That one is an old kit. I know my old cities of death buildings and the wall of martyrs stuff is made in china.
|
|
#
?
Jul 7, 2018 22:25
|
|
|
darnon posted:Painted up the first of my Helverins sporting its custom gatlings. Also technically the first on my 40k dudes I've fully painted, my bare/primed AdMech languishing shamefully. This is very cool. The Gatling guns really suit it.
|
|
#
?
Jul 7, 2018 22:36
|
|
|
Genghis Cohen posted:Awesome colourscheme, and I like the avian head! I do urge you to drill slightly larger barrels though. It can be a pain on gatling-type weapons, but it makes a real improvement. That was the stock holesize from the 3D print. It's some hard resin, but slightly brittle so I didn't want it to chip out drilling it.
|
|
#
?
Jul 7, 2018 22:56
|
|
|
Kicked the tyres of my 1500 Necron list against a friend, and am happy that it should be able to put in a decent showing at next week’s tournament. We played two games, one against her guard tank company and a second against her mechanised sisters. She hasn’t played much 8th ed, so I won both, but it was a good field test from my point of view in terms of how much punishment my army can soak up and how much pain it can dish out, and I think a good learning experiencd for her, as she wants to play more 8th (having done tournaments in previous editions) and i was able to demonstrate some things like the intricacies of pile ins etc. The main conclusion, having gone into it still unsure whether I wanted to run as Nephrekh or Mephrit is Nephrekh Nephrekh holy crap definitely Nephrekh. The auto-6 inch advance changes the dynamic of the army so much when playing Maelstrom (which we did and the tourney is) that it’s unreal, and 18-inch advancing then charging Wraiths are just filthy. I was also pleasantly surprised that between mortal wounds from the C’tan shard and a few other things the army was better able to whittle down vehicles than I feared. The extra mobility definitely outstrips the slight extra punch for me. The ghost ark is also an absolute star - a pain to kill but a pain if they leave it there. Definitely started paying down on all the effort that went into it. V. Hyped for my spooky bois’ big day out next week. Although lol, it looks like the fact that it clashes with the world cup final might actually matter. Who could have predicted that?
|
|
#
?
Jul 7, 2018 22:59
|
|
|
darnon posted:Painted up the first of my Helverins sporting its custom gatlings. Also technically the first on my 40k dudes I've fully painted, my bare/primed AdMech languishing shamefully. Those gatlings look wonderful.
|
|
#
?
Jul 8, 2018 00:16
|
|
|
I won my first game in a long time. Previously, I was trying to make Primaris Blood Angels work, and while I haven’t given up on them, I’m putting them on hold. My wife got me all of the new Knights for Father’s Day and I had two questoris Knights still in boxes. I normally don’t play with stuff until it’s completely done, but they were definitely table top, so I decided I want to try the Knights out. My Knights are House Hawkshroud. I took a Valiant as warlord with the +1 to his invul and the super flamer relic. I had two Crusaders with the BC and Stormspear Rockets. One of them, I spent the CP to make him a character w/ a warlord trait (can’t remember which one it was). Finally I had a couple of Armiger Helverins. My opponent played Black legion with the Brass Scorpion, Abbadon, Slaneesh DP, a Sorceror on bike, two helbrutes with twin las, a squad of 3 mutilators, and three five man CSM squads with lascannons. We played an Open War mission with Dawn of War deployment, and the mission was all about hold objectives each turn. Surprisingly, I didn’t go first. He moved the Sorceror and Brass Scorpion straight across the board toward my Valiant. He rolled double 1 perils when trying to cast Warp Time. He managed to take some wounds off one of the Crusaders and killed an Armiger. The scorpion had a 10 inch charge to make, which it did, but the megaflamer managed to take off half of its wounds. I used the Hawkshroud stratagem that allowed one of my Crusaders to heroically intervene and got him into the fight. The Scorpion managed to do 30 wounds to the Valiant, but he didn’t explode and I used the stratagem to allow him to fight, and he managed to take off a couple wounds. The Crusader attacked and the Scorpion was down to 3 wounds. On my turn, I backed the Crusader out of combat and onto an objective, and then killed the Scorpion, a squad of CSM. I killed the Scorceror. I filled all but one CSM from another squad. Killed a Hellbrute with the Armiger. At the end of it, the score was 3-5. Second turn, Abaddon and the Mutilators dropped in on the middle of the board, 9” away from the Crusader that killed the Scorpion. The Mutilators killed one of the Crusaders. His Hellbrutes took more wounds off of stuff. The Daemon Prince came out and moved toward the Armiger I had moved up to an objective. Basically, everyone failed their charges and I hurt stuff on the overwatch. The DP was at 2 wounds standing directly in front of the Armiger, so was an easy kill. I took out the other Hellbrute, killed two of the Mutilators. He almost called the game there, but I wanted to see how it played out because he was way ahead of me on points. On turn 3, he put a few more wounds on my remaining Crusader (8 remaining at this point), and Abaddon failed his charge on that Crusader. Nothing hurt the Armiger. My turn, the Mutilator had one wound and was in cover. Abaddon had 6 wounds, and I moved my Crusader into his face. I moved the Armiger up to be in charge range of the 6 remaining CSM alive. The targeting of the Crusader’s guns was probably one of the best target priority I’ve ever managed. The heavy stubbers and the Rockets fires at the Mutilator. The two CSM squads got the big guns, and Abaddon was in auto charge range. By the end of shooting, there was just Abaddon, which he was easily smushed under titanic feet. I definitely see the weakness of an all Knight army in games where tabling the opponent isn’t viable, but I can see how it could be unfun to play against all Knights and not be able to kill them. I normally don’t play at the local tournaments because I’m not very good and I’ve always built lists more narratively, but maybe once I have these guys fully painted, I’ll take it out and not feel bad about bringing an army worthy of being called “OP”.
|
|
#
?
Jul 8, 2018 03:41
|
|
|
This game is only "balanced" when people play a mix of the armies. You are doing your area a favor by playing Knights. You are making them better players.
|
|
#
?
Jul 8, 2018 04:40
|
|
|
darnon posted:Painted up the first of my Helverins sporting its custom gatlings. Also technically the first on my 40k dudes I've fully painted, my bare/primed AdMech languishing shamefully. What green is that?
|
|
#
?
Jul 8, 2018 08:51
|
|
|
DandyPandy posted:I definitely see the weakness of an all Knight army in games where tabling the opponent isn’t viable, but I can see how it could be unfun to play against all Knights and not be able to kill them. I normally don’t play at the local tournaments because I’m not very good and I’ve always built lists more narratively, but maybe once I have these guys fully painted, I’ll take it out and not feel bad about bringing an army worthy of being called “OP”. I agree with the poster above re: it's a local balance problem. Knights are strong in the same way baneblades are strong - and if your army is not ready, it's not gonna be a fun time. Knights are pretty much identical to baneblades and the 3 baneblades variants list is also pretty strong, it came close to winning a couple of smaller tournaments iirc. Knights are way more popular than baneblades though (for obvious coolness and price related reasons), so people will meet knights at a much higher rate. The difference is, among other things, knights getting invuln save (against ranged only, so assault is still good against them, but they tap-dance back - so do baneblades though) and a few minor things, baneblades having easy access to psychic power buffs, knights have better stratagems (baneblades arguably better 'doctrines/chapter tactics') but overall they have to be handled the same way. Knights suffer from the same inadequacies other elite armies suffer from, mainly having a lot of their points tied up in very few models, which means debuffing is really good against knights, because you're essentially giving one third of the army the debuff, with a single cast if you hit the castellan. Knights also get you relative few wounds for the points 28 for 600, or 24 for 450 is really quite low comparatively. In my opinion, part of the problem is that knights are not very balanced until 2000, as people often don't have the tools. Especially in lower points casual/friendly games, unless the opponent specifically knows what they are up against and builds their list towards that. Often times the types of weapons you need to deal with knights (high damage weapons) are kinda expensive and something added later, and it is the exact opposite of what you need for troop heavy armies. It is however one of those armies many people just don't like playing against - which I think is fair enough. Just warn/ask if it's not in a tournament setting. 'No super-heavies' rules for casual games happened in a lot of places already.
|
|
#
?
Jul 8, 2018 11:03
|
|
|
Lungboy posted:What green is that? Base of Vallejo Scurvy Green (great color in itself) although it's shifted a bit greener from a glaze of green ink to smooth out the blends. Edge highlighting was done with Reaper Viper Green.
|
|
#
?
Jul 8, 2018 11:08
|
|
|
Can anyone help me with some Mathhammer? The last time I did mathematics to any appreciable extent was in school and since then that part of my brain has completely rotted away. I'm trying to decide when it's worth it to bring a Malanthrope (9 W, T5, Character, 140 points, -1 to hit bubble in 3") with my Nids. I feel like the main points are: - Only bring it against armies where a substantial amount of offence coming through is via shooting - Only bring it in a list where you've brought units that you know you're going to be able to protect with it and which are significant points investments (e.g. Tyrannofexes, Exocrines, Hierodules) for a significant amount of turns - Only bring it to replace a spot you would have otherwise given a Neurothrope (HQ slot, 70 pts, Psyker, 3++, 5W, Character), otherwise the points are basically never worth it. What I'm not clear on is whether armies with rerolls to hit and better balistics skills hamper the effectiveness of the -1 to hit bubble? For example, taking an army that ordinarily hits on BS+5 to BS+6 effectively means that the Malanthrope has halved all incoming damage via shooting, whereas taking an army that normally hits on BS+3 to BS+4 means you've reduced incoming damage by about a quarter (66% chance to hit now 50% chance to hit, 16% = approx 1/4 of 66%). Is it true to say that rerolls also reduce the effectiveness of -1 to hit bubbles? I feel like I'm definitely missing something because regardless of the relative amount of damage reduced e.g. 33% chance to hit to 16% chance to hit = 50% reduction, even with better ballistics skills the total amount of damage reduced is linear. At that point my brain shuts down and I can't figure it out. Entropy238 fucked around with this message at 11:53 on Jul 8, 2018 |
|
#
?
Jul 8, 2018 11:51
|
|
|
If you got an inquisitor on the table, you can use Dominate on knight characters. I usually just use that power to try and force overcharged plasma suicides, but using an opponent's Heavy 14 relic against their own army is amazing.
|
|
#
?
Jul 8, 2018 11:59
|
|
|
GET INTO DA CHOPPA posted:If you got an inquisitor on the table, you can use Dominate on knight characters. I usually just use that power to try and force overcharged plasma suicides, but using an opponent's Heavy 14 relic against their own army is amazing. Holy poo poo that beautiful... would this work with Genestealer cults too?
|
|
#
?
Jul 8, 2018 12:19
|
|
|
darnon posted:Base of Vallejo Scurvy Green (great color in itself) although it's shifted a bit greener from a glaze of green ink to smooth out the blends. Edge highlighting was done with Reaper Viper Green. Thanks. Do you mean actual old GW green ink?
|
|
#
?
Jul 8, 2018 12:45
|
|
|
Entropy238 posted:Mathhammer You’re arguably overthinking it a bit; being able to add -1 to hit is always great, and being able to deploy a nid army bubbled around a Malanthrope is great alpha strike protection, then leaving it back with big shooty bugs makes them harder to take off the board. If you want to delve into the mathhammer a bit more: 1.) You’re basically right that it does more against armies with good BS - while the reduction in number of hits is linear, bad BS armies are starting from a lower “base” in terms of hits achieved, which is where the fact that -1 to hit removes a greater percentage of hits from bad BS armies comes from - space marines and eldar can “afford” to lose more hits than guard can, if you like. 2.) As a followup to that, in general the way that bad BS armies get around their bad BS is by firing more shots - at which point a proportional reduction of those does way more in terms reducing the absolute number of hits scored. 3.) That doesn’t mean they’re bad against good BS armies, but they shine in particular in a specific area, which is protecting high value targets from heavy weapons, rather than mattering quite as much “across the board” (though obviously they still help). This is because every hit changed to a miss on a heavy weapon hurts a lot more, and also because heavy weapons will not infrequently already have a -1 to hit from moving, which compounds the effect. Anything that stacks -1 to hits starts getting real good (IIRC nids have a psychic power that does it?) 4.) -1s are disproportionately more effective in reducing damage from attacks with re-rolls. For attacks with re-roll 1s, in addition to the reduction in hits already applied, each 1 now has a proportionally smaller chance of “becoming” a hit. For attacks with “full” rerolls, the Bloody Stupid Order of Operations Rule (i.e. with the exception of re-rolls from Cawl, you can’t re-roll a dice that “would” have been a hit pre-modifier) makes -1s to hit outrageously good, because not only do they apply to all the extra dice that get rolled in the re-rolls, they also mean that some proportion of the misses can’t be rerolled, mitigating the impact of whatever resource your opponent spent to apply the re-rolls. FWIW, this is one of the reasons I hate this rule and think it should be changed (and it looks from AOS like they might be considering it) - logically adding re-rolls should be a way to counter hit modifiers, but as it stands that will often be a worse use of the ability than doing something else. That’s the medium length version, but the TLDR rules of thumb you can use (given you said you were having trouble braining it): 1.) The lower the opponent’s “starting” proportion of hits from their shooting would be, the better taking more of that away is, because they can less “afford” to lose it. 2.) The more times a dice will be rolled with the modifier applied, the better applying the modifier is. This can either be because there is a higher volume of shots coming at you, or because dice are being re-rolled. 3.) The more valuable each hit is to your opponent, the better taking some of those hits away is i.e. giving your monsters -1 to hit against heavy weapons is likely to be very good. 4.) Any chance to stack hit modifiers against a high powered unit’s shooting is really good.
|
|
#
?
Jul 8, 2018 12:51
|
|
|
So a reroll (first) 1 on a BS2+ adds 7.6% to the chance to hit (90.9 vs 83.33), on a BS5+ it adds 3% to the chance to hit (36.36 vs. 33.3) right?
|
|
#
?
Jul 8, 2018 13:09
|
|
|
Lungboy posted:Thanks. Do you mean actual old GW green ink? Army Painter since their shade set is a good deal, but GW Biel-tan green would probably be its equivalent. Scale75 inktensity would work too (it's what I used for the heat staining per Vince's hobby cheating vid) but requires thinning as it is super potent out of the bottle. Coelia Greenshade looks like it would be closer to preserving scurvy green's color. darnon fucked around with this message at 13:18 on Jul 8, 2018 |
|
#
?
Jul 8, 2018 13:15
|
|
|
Schadenboner posted:So a reroll (first) 1 on a BS2+ adds 7.6% to the chance to hit (90.9 vs 83.33), on a BS5+ it adds 3% to the chance to hit (36.36 vs. 33.3) right? ...not without modifiers, no. Reroll 1’s to hit on BS 2+ takes the hit chance to ~97%. That one’s relatively easy to brain - all of the non-hits on the first roll get re-rolled, and 5/6 of those will become a hit. Mentally, therefore, you can look at the “miss space” (16.66%) and just remove 5/6 of that, which takes you to 97.22. Working out the numbers on the fly for other values is a little harder, so I tend to just remember them, but you can do the same with BS5+ 33.33% start as hits 16.66% get rerolled, and 33.33% of those become hits So 1/3 * 16.66 gives you 5.55, which you can add to your 33.33 to get 38.88% hits. Someone back in the thread pointed out that the consistent maths is that adding reroll 1s multiplies your hit percentage by 7/6, maybe you’re remembering that? I do tend to find it’s just easier to remember all the percentages with re-rolls and re-roll 1s though: With re-roll 1s: 2+: 97% 3+: 78% 4+: 58% 5+: 39% 6+: 19.5% Full re-rolls: 2+: 97% 3+: 89% 4+: 75% 5+: 55.5% 6+: 30.5% Useful rules of thumb from that are that full rerolls are proportionaly most valuable applied to BS4+ while re-roll 1s are better the higher your BS is (which makes sense because the higher your bs the closer they become to “full” rerolls), and that people tend to wildly underestimate the proportion of success you’ll get on 5s or 6s with full rerolls unless they play one of the armies that can exploit it.
|
|
#
?
Jul 8, 2018 13:31
|
|
|
One_Wing posted:...not without modifiers, no. So I’m confused on how I got this wrong. Let’s assume we’re rolling 1 die, hitting on 2+, rerolling the first 1: A roll of 1 followed by a 1 on the reroll misses, a 1 followed by a 2-6 on the reroll hits, a 2-6 on the first roll hits. That’s 11 possible results of which 10 hit, that’s 10/11 which is 90.1%? E: I figured it out as soon as I posted: I’m assuming a 1,2 (1 rerolled to a 2) is as likely as a 2,0 (2 followed by no reroll needed) but I need to separate them because the (1,x) results are conditional on the initial 1 which is as likely as an initial 2 (or any other single result). I’ve been up for the last 27 hours, working for 19 of them. 
Schadenboner fucked around with this message at 13:50 on Jul 8, 2018 |
|
#
?
Jul 8, 2018 13:38
|
|
|
I typically think of a re-roll as being about as good as being 1 BS higher. So a re-rolled 5+ is about as good as a 4+, etc. It's certainly not a perfect system especially accounting for modifiers, but it's a useful rule of thumb.
|
|
#
?
Jul 8, 2018 13:41
|
|
|
Killer_Bees! posted:Holy poo poo that beautiful... would this work with Genestealer cults too? I don't know the wording of the GSC spells, but I'd guess so.
|
|
#
?
Jul 8, 2018 13:47
|
|
|
Yeah it would. Mass Hypnosis is also really good against Knights.
|
|
#
?
Jul 8, 2018 13:53
|
|
|
GET INTO DA CHOPPA posted:I don't know the wording of the GSC spells, but I'd guess so. Keep in mind, this only works if they have additional characters that aren't their warlord. So only if they have Exalted Court members is this effective. I currently don't waste the points on non-warlord characters in Knights. I don't find the warlord traits to be good enough, or the relics worth it.
|
|
#
?
Jul 8, 2018 14:59
|
|
|
I think landstrider and the 4++are both worth taking.
|
|
#
?
Jul 8, 2018 15:18
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 15, 2024 13:54 |
|
|
MasterSlowPoke posted:I think landstrider and the 4++are both worth taking. Yeah, especially if you plan on using Armiger escorts or tag-teaming with another Knight the movement bonus is great. It’s not always necessary but getting that bonus 4” on a 2CP advance/charge, especially for a Gallant, can make a huge difference.
|
|
#
?
Jul 8, 2018 15:45
|
|
