|
V. Illych L. posted:of course dudes with monocles would close all our gun factories and instead focus on the lucrative luxury widget market, but you can't have it all can you Well according to the invisible hand of the free market we sell those luxury widgets for guns manufactured in... *squints at map*... err??? Ibriz???
|
#
?
Jul 9, 2018 04:41
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 18, 2024 09:05 |
|
|
I'm just here for Meiji Benin. It's a country the size of Western Europe, with a population similar to Germany. Given time, I could easily see it humiliating the Moroccans in a battle similar to Tsushima, and go full Greater West African Co-Prosperity Sphere on the continent.
|
|
#
?
Jul 9, 2018 05:18
|
|
|
PBJ posted:I'm just here for Meiji Benin. I would support this
|
|
#
?
Jul 9, 2018 06:22
|
|
|
If Benin is Japan and we are the constantly-self-owning Italy, who gets to be Germany?
|
|
#
?
Jul 9, 2018 08:17
|
|
|
Ibblebibble posted:If Benin is Japan and we are the constantly-self-owning Italy, who gets to be Germany? No I am pretty sure we are Spain in Vicky just sucking poo poo this entire period as the worst great power, until we get bumped off for some random nation that used to be our colony.
|
|
#
?
Jul 9, 2018 08:24
|
|
|
Chiming in as well that with how Vicky 2 works, this is probably as good as things could be going for Al-Andalus - Morocco was inevitably going to be chummy with Hannover re: Leon-Castile and also bring in whoever their GP ally is if we ever attacked them, and while not having mil techs at the start of this war kind of hurts not having all the industrial/culture techs we have now would have made us much, much weaker heading into the rest of the game. As Hashim's mentioned even the Moderates are going to backfill some important mil techs when it becomes critical (like right now) and as long as we play this war smart and Russia isn't Morocco's GP ally (which, remembering how the Congress went down and the fact that Ibriz has more reason to dislike us, I sort of doubt) we should come out of it just fine, with a stronger France-English ally that will appreciate our support and hopefully be in for our reclaiming our Iberian cores down the line. That's not to say we don't want to consider voting Imperialist or Royalist in the next election (or the one after that, at the very latest), but two Moderate terms have definitely been a solid choice to start V2 off with. Jack2142 posted:No I am pretty sure we are Spain in Vicky just sucking poo poo this entire period as the worst great power, until we get bumped off for some random nation that used to be our colony. IIRC Hashim has edited the pop files and Al-Andalus isn't nearly as doomed as OTL Spain, which mostly has garbage population levels.
|
|
#
?
Jul 9, 2018 11:23
|
|
|
Pakled posted:We can only hope that the Russian AI is too dumb to work out how to send troops en masse to Western Europe. Figuring out how to move troops all the way across Eurasia is the one thing V2 AI is good at.
|
|
#
?
Jul 9, 2018 11:55
|
|
|
I mean it does occasionally send 6 million British soldiers to attrit into nothing hiking across the Himalayas, and it has zero idea that boats exist, but yeah marching large armies back and forth as long as there's a land path is one of the few things it can actually manage semi-competently.
|
|
#
?
Jul 9, 2018 14:45
|
|
|
There's a quick edit you can do to the game files to make soldier pops collect in the capital province of states, which prevents the "Attrition drops all your soldiers below 1k and your troops die" problem by merging a bunch of smaller pops together into larger ones. Also, getting the health care system social reforms done early is really broken - it basically doubles your pop growth, so in the late game your nation is just a monster with such high growth you have enough people everywhere for everything.
|
|
#
?
Jul 9, 2018 14:49
|
|
|
Rodyle posted:It's the exact same thing as the old faction system in EU4: the mechanics require that we be able to do multiple things at once that the lp faction system prevents us from doing. Crazycryodude posted:Yeah it is incredibly annoying, but I think intentionally designed that way and it does do it's job at forcing suboptimal play to avoid blobbing. Although maybe a little too well. We'll see, Victoria has the advantage of new parties showing up with new policies as time goes on so it shouldn't be a bad as EU. 
|
|
#
?
Jul 9, 2018 15:34
|
|
|
Rodyle posted:The Imperialists and Royalists both prioritize the cores over colonialism/conquests in Europe respectively. Not sure where you get that from the Imperialist description. Regaining Iberia and going colonial are both listed as primary issues with nothing to say they value one that much more than the other. In fact i could see the imperialists doing the latter first to get more resourcers to do the former. Also. this: quote:War Policy: Pro-Military - largely opposed to costly aggressive wars in Europe, this party is more interested in fighting easy wars that’ll allow them to build a new colonial empire. This allows us to implement 100% military spending, and decreases the effects of war exhaustion by 50%. And what is starting a war against Morocco if not costly and agressive.
|
|
#
?
Jul 9, 2018 16:18
|
|
|
What I want to know is when is Morocco going to get stuck in a long, drawn-out war with Benin to distract it from destroying Al Andalus for once. I mean they're right there!
|
|
#
?
Jul 9, 2018 16:51
|
|
|
SlothfulCobra posted:I mean they're right there!
|
|
#
?
Jul 9, 2018 16:54
|
|
|
Well aside from my insane crossing the desert scheme, they're right there on the coast of Africa next to Morocco's colony. What kind of bullshit keeps the colonists from starting some kind of pointless war against the natives?
|
|
#
?
Jul 9, 2018 17:14
|
|
|
SlothfulCobra posted:Well aside from my insane crossing the desert scheme, they're right there on the coast of Africa next to Morocco's colony. What kind of bullshit keeps the colonists from starting some kind of pointless war against the natives? Probably the infamy ceiling, given Morocco's started several colonial wars in India and taken land, and already started off with a healthy dose of infamy due to taking Greece in the beginning. Every state they take off Benin would be 5 infamy (civ vs unciv), and they can spend it far more efficiently taking land in India that has millions and millions and millions of pops and better resources. Which is also the reason why I highly doubt we'll lose any land in the upcoming war even if we get demolished: no way Morocco has 11 Infamy to spare on an Andalusi state. Hashim, what's Morocco's current infamy at?
|
|
#
?
Jul 9, 2018 17:17
|
|
|
I would hazard a guess that Morroco's holdings in west africa are more trading posts and less settler-colonial statelets. So there's not really any colonists to start some poo poo, just a pampered branch of a Berber trading cartel living in luxury off an army of slaves.
|
|
#
?
Jul 9, 2018 17:18
|
|
|
Patter Song posted:Which is also the reason why I highly doubt we'll lose any land in the upcoming war even if we get demolished: no way Morocco has 11 Infamy to spare on an Andalusi state. Unless Hashim's coded "gently caress Al-Andalus" into Morocco's decisionmaking.
|
|
#
?
Jul 9, 2018 17:27
|
|
Patter Song posted:Hashim, what's Morocco's current infamy at? 12. I can also reveal that Morocco's army tech is awful. Almost as bad as ours.
|
|
|
#
?
Jul 9, 2018 17:55
|
|
|
inb4 their commerce raider doomstack obliterates our navy in the first week of the war.
|
|
#
?
Jul 9, 2018 18:06
|
|
|
Hashim posted:12. That's...lower than I would have figured. Yeah, they theoretically could demand a state from us, although 23 is pretty close to 25. Probably more likely that they'd demand Cut Down to Size on either us or Dual Monarchy, or maybe just Humiliate. ThatBasqueGuy posted:inb4 their commerce raider doomstack obliterates our navy in the first week of the war. Hopefully Hashim never lets it out of harbor.
|
|
#
?
Jul 9, 2018 18:11
|
|
|
I'm not overly familiar with V2 mechanics, but it seems to me that Morocco had the army to manage it's Indian possessions. How long can that state of affairs last? Is it possible that, if we (or someone else, but I'm hopeful) give Morocco a bloody nose during this war, they'll start trying to levy troops in India again, and that'll cause some serious unrest over there?
|
|
#
?
Jul 9, 2018 20:11
|
|
|
puppets freak me out posted:I'm not overly familiar with V2 mechanics, but it seems to me that Morocco had the army to manage it's Indian possessions. How long can that state of affairs last? Troop levying doesn't do nothing to militancy. Only way it would is if you put some kind of event. Also, non-acepted cultures cannot produce better kind of troops. I reckon most of Indian troops would be second rate at best. Also, there is an issue of transporting them, and of course of crossing to Europe from Africa. Additionally, if Morroco hasn't Medicine, they cannot support large doomstacks on the attack.
|
|
#
?
Jul 9, 2018 20:24
|
|
puppets freak me out posted:I'm not overly familiar with V2 mechanics, but it seems to me that Morocco had the army to manage it's Indian possessions. How long can that state of affairs last? If Morocco loses badly and gets occupied for long enough, then yeah rebels will definitely start popping up in India. And even if they stay super-powerful, future revolts should be possible all the same. This is what Morocco's rebel screen looks like at the start of the war, for example: 
|
|
|
#
?
Jul 9, 2018 21:12
|
|
|
Hashim posted:If Morocco loses badly and gets occupied for long enough, then yeah rebels will definitely start popping up in India. And even if they stay super-powerful, future revolts should be possible all the same. This is what Morocco's rebel screen looks like at the start of the war, for example: What do the icons mean again? Apart from the first one which is obvious. I'm thinking the anarchist flag is current chance of a revolt? And the fist is either the level of support from pops (percentage of pops part of the possible rebellion) or possibly growth. I'm thinking the unit of soldiers is how many units of regulars they can raise based on support from soldier pops, and the person holding a gun I can't really say. Anyway the best way to deal with discontented Indian soldiers is to station them far away from home, send them to die in distant wars and keep them away from positions of leadership. Morocoo is in no real danger. Randarkman fucked around with this message at 21:23 on Jul 9, 2018 |
|
#
?
Jul 9, 2018 21:20
|
|
Randarkman posted:What do the icons mean again? First icon is the number of people that currently support the rebel cause. Second icon is the number of regiments that can defect to the rebel cause. Third icon is the number of rebel regiments currently in revolt. Fourth icon is basically a representation of how big the rebellion will be, I think. Fifth icon is their revolt risk.
|
|
|
#
?
Jul 9, 2018 21:32
|
|
|
First icon is how many sympathizers the movement has, second icon is how many brigades worth of radicalized sympathizers are ready to grab a gun and get in the streets right this second, third icon is number of brigades currently revolting, fourth icon is.... chance that some supporters move from sympathizing to radicalized, I think? And then the red and black flag is the revolt chance. So there are millions of potential rebels/sympathizers in Morocco for the rebels to recruit from, they just haven't been radicalized/equipped/whatever to the point that they're ready to revolt. But add a health dose of War Exhaustion to the mix and that might change..... E: Beaten by Hashim, but 
|
|
#
?
Jul 9, 2018 21:37
|
|
|
Randarkman posted:What do the icons mean again? Apart from the first one which is obvious. I'm thinking the anarchist flag is current chance of a revolt? And the fist is either the level of support from pops (percentage of pops part of the possible rebellion) or possibly growth. I'm thinking the unit of soldiers is how many units of regulars they can raise based on support from soldier pops, and the person holding a gun I can't really say. The person with the gun is the number of units that will be raised if the revolt happens right now as opposed to the first number which is the maximum potential number of units, though I don't think they need to be Soldier POPs to fight. The flag is revolt chance, as you might expect. I was never clear on the fist but I think it's a modifier on how quickly militancy rises for all pops in that particular group. The decision to revolt is ultimately dependent on a pop's individual militancy, and there are different militancy thresholds for the "status" of each angry pop, starting from identifying with a particular rebellion to being a potential brigade to actually being a revolting brigade if the rebellion fires. Incidentally you can easily check the militancy (and consciousness) of individual pops and what exactly is causing it in the Population screen, which is a feature I suspect many people don't really know about.
|
|
#
?
Jul 9, 2018 21:38
|
|
|
The system is very opaque, but this is how I understand it. As soon, as POPs militancy becomes high enough, they start supporting rebels. Which organization they support exactly, it depends from many factors - their ideology, if they are a minority culture and religion, their consciousness (low CON makes them follow reactionaries, high CON moves them towards anarcho-liberals or communists, depending of their class), cores on the province where they sit, etc. This is what the icon on the left shows - the number of people who generally support this particular movement and help it grow. But this is not enough to actually cause rebels to rise. They need to organize. Each POP pools some money to the movement, which somehow translates into their readiness. The fist icon shows the percentage of them that are armed and ready to revolt. Or maybe it is organization speed instead, I'm not sure. The "three soldiers" icon shows how many brigades could rise in this exact moment - only organized POPs count, that's why three million of sepoys can only field 12 brigades right now. The "shooting soldier" icon shows how many of them already rebelled. The last icon is a tricky part. Theoretically it's supposed to show how likely is it for some POPs to actually revolt, but this doesn't seem to correspond to reality very well. I've seen it sitting on 100% for months. In the early versions of V2, POPs used to revolt regardless of their organization if their Militancy hit 10, but this doesn't happen anymore. I suppose the percentage was supposed to show how likely is that? Who knows? It doesn't help that the only place this system was described clearly were V2 development diaries, and it was such a mess in the game's early days that it was hastily reworked multiple times. For example, soldier brigades supporting rebel movements would always mutiny when their POPs joined the revolution. This was so infuriating for the players, that this behavior was changed and it only happens if the rebels mobilized every other unit. At least that's how it was described in patch notes. Nevertheless, not only the tooltip still suggests they can revolt anytime, but in random moments you can see some random brigades starting a doomed fight against their armies even if the entire rebel movement didn't organize at all. I don't know how the gently caress it's supposed to be working. I think this is the most opaque system in the game except the world market, but it's hard to compete with a feature even developers claim not to understand.
|
|
#
?
Jul 9, 2018 22:55
|
|
|
The higher % the fist is, the more of that total rebel population is mobilized into actual brigades. Low fist is a bunch of people grumbling in cafes, high fist and they're distributing rifles and planning for the big day. If fist is low, you could have a revolt nominally supported by millions of people but only like two brigades actually revolt.
|
|
#
?
Jul 9, 2018 22:55
|
|
|
So either way a high militancy means you've got an uprising coming your way, but if strength is low it's just going to be a "police action"?
|
|
#
?
Jul 10, 2018 05:02
|
|
|
wiegieman posted:So either way a high militancy means you've got an uprising coming your way, but if strength is low it's just going to be a "police action"? Pretty much. Look at those sepoys on that India screen. 3.37 million people supporting the rebels, 12 brigades ready to pop into existence due to only 1.8% on that fist number. If that fist number were 100%, even with no additional Indian sympathizers, you'd be looking at something like 1,100 brigades of rebels.
|
|
#
?
Jul 10, 2018 06:03
|
|
|
Patter Song posted:Pretty much. Look at those sepoys on that India screen. 3.37 million people supporting the rebels, 12 brigades ready to pop into existence due to only 1.8% on that fist number. If that fist number were 100%, even with no additional Indian sympathizers, you'd be looking at something like 1,100 brigades of rebels. Sounds like playing China 
|
|
#
?
Jul 10, 2018 07:26
|
|
|
Patter Song posted:Pretty much. Look at those sepoys on that India screen. 3.37 million people supporting the rebels, 12 brigades ready to pop into existence due to only 1.8% on that fist number. If that fist number were 100%, even with no additional Indian sympathizers, you'd be looking at something like 1,100 brigades of rebels. Sorry for the nitpick, but I think maybe I'm missing something, wouldn't it be 666 brigades? (Or 667 rounded up)
|
|
#
?
Jul 10, 2018 07:46
|
|
|
rarx posted:Sorry for the nitpick, but I think maybe I'm missing something, wouldn't it be 666 brigades? (Or 667 rounded up) In Vicky 2, a brigade is 3000 men.
|
|
#
?
Jul 10, 2018 08:08
|
|
|
If we aren't supplying weapons and supplies to the noble Indian... why precisely is that? I, like most of my fellows in the Majlis, am for modernization first and foremost. But those in southeast Asia groan under the yoke and lash of the Almoravids... never forget the rallying cry of our bravest and finest forerunners. gently caress Morocco!
|
|
#
?
Jul 10, 2018 13:10
|
|
|
habeasdorkus posted:If we aren't supplying weapons and supplies to the noble Indian... why precisely is that? I, like most of my fellows in the Majlis, am for modernization first and foremost. But those in southeast Asia groan under the yoke and lash of the Almoravids... never forget the rallying cry of our bravest and finest forerunners. gently caress Morocco! No mechanisms for funding rebels in Vicky 2
|
|
#
?
Jul 10, 2018 13:19
|
|
|
Agean90 posted:No mechanisms for funding rebels in Vicky 2 There's war subsidies, but I have no idea if the AI is even subject to cashflow or how much it'd matter.
|
|
#
?
Jul 10, 2018 13:37
|
|
|
Obliterati posted:There's war subsidies, but I have no idea if the AI is even subject to cashflow or how much it'd matter. only if the rebels spawn in as a full nation by event. if its just the red and black flag rebels then theres no real way to support them short of declaring war and tying up morroco's army
|
|
#
?
Jul 10, 2018 13:44
|
|
|
Agean90 posted:No mechanisms for funding rebels in Vicky 2 Wish I had thought about that back when we were talking about event chains. Ah well.
|
|
#
?
Jul 10, 2018 13:56
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 18, 2024 09:05 |
|
|
The Cold War mod has a decision that lets you send army goods and cash to nations at war, could repurpose that or another similar event/decision. Still needs the sepoys to be an event driven rebellion in the first place, but those sorta events are really good for giving the rebellions a bit of staying power so they don't completely dissolve after one bad battle or six months in and they run out of cash.
|
|
#
?
Jul 10, 2018 15:34
|
|