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Andrast
Apr 21, 2010


ZiegeDame posted:

Last I heard people outside your party don't get xp

I have no idea why developers still do this in 2018

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Zaphod42
Sep 13, 2012

If there's anything more important than my ego around, I want it caught and shot now.

irlZaphod posted:

I got €5 off for pre-ordering, plus I don't have to pay until I pick it up. And if I change my mind I just don't pick it up and don't get charged. So that's a reason for me to pre-order, with literally no downside to doing so.

Is 5 pound not a reason??

irlZaphod
Mar 26, 2004

Kiss the Joycon to Kiss Zelda

Zaphod42 posted:

Is 5 pound not a reason??
Yes, I said it was a reason to pre-order, in response to you saying that there was no reason to pre-order.

Zaphod42
Sep 13, 2012

If there's anything more important than my ego around, I want it caught and shot now.

Andrast posted:

I have no idea why developers still do this in 2018

Otherwise why have party limits? It adds to choice and replay value.

You don't really need xp diversion because lower level chars will level much faster anyways.

But just really pick 4 to focus on and play the game 2 times, OR play with all 8 just rotate them around. No big?

I think having a char you've ignored all game magically be level 100 is worse, it removes player agency.

Zaphod42
Sep 13, 2012

If there's anything more important than my ego around, I want it caught and shot now.

irlZaphod posted:

Yes, I said it was a reason to pre-order.

You're weird.

"Please gamestop take my money, its a burden to have it in my pocket!"

irlZaphod
Mar 26, 2004

Kiss the Joycon to Kiss Zelda

Zaphod42 posted:

You're weird.

"Please gamestop take my money, its a burden to have it in my pocket!"
Did you read my post at all?

Andrast
Apr 21, 2010


Zaphod42 posted:

Otherwise why have party limits? It adds to choice and replay value.

You don't really need xp diversion because lower level chars will level much faster anyways.

But just really pick 4 to focus on and play the game 2 times, OR play with all 8 just rotate them around. No big?

I think having a char you've ignored all game magically be level 100 is worse, it removes player agency.

I disagree with everything in this.

Harlock
Jan 15, 2006

Tap "A" to drink!!!

Andrast posted:

I disagree with everything in this.

:same:

Red Alert 2 Yuris Revenge
May 8, 2006

"My brain is amazing! It's full of wrinkles, and... Uh... Wait... What am I trying to say?"
It's actually way cooler to be able to shuffle my party at will without having to grind then up to speed, even if that process is somewhat quick.

Mega64
May 23, 2008

I took the octopath less travelered,

And it made one-eighth the difference.
My heart can't take two Zaphods arguing like this.

doingitwrong
Jul 27, 2013
Locking the ability to mix and match party formations to try out new strategies behind grinding random combat does not increase player agency. All it does is pad out completion times—which appeals to people looking to get value for money by hours played, I guess, but cheapens the moment to moment experience by making players engage in unchallenging busywork.

irlZaphod
Mar 26, 2004

Kiss the Joycon to Kiss Zelda

Mega64 posted:

My heart can't take two Zaphods arguing like this.
It's ok, we still love you. It's just that sometimes Zaphods and Zaphods fight.

MMF Freeway
Sep 15, 2010

Later!

doingitwrong posted:

Locking the ability to mix and match party formations to try out new strategies behind grinding random combat does not increase player agency. All it does is pad out completion times—which appeals to people looking to get value for money by hours played, I guess, but cheapens the moment to moment experience by making players engage in unchallenging busywork.

There is another option and its just playing with whoever you want and sometimes they are underleveled and if you like them and use them enough eventually they'll catch up.

LawfulWaffle
Mar 11, 2014

Well, that aligns with the vibes I was getting. Which was, like, "normal" kinda vibes.
I don't think the exp distribution is going to be as big of an issue as people are making it out to be. It looks like the natural way to play will be to travel in a circle, gather your 8 travelers, then start doing each person's Chapter 2. Since the level jump from Chapter 1 to Chapter 2 is so dramatic I think it'll make more sense to try and hit as many Chapter 2s as possible before moving on to your favorite character's Chapter 3. This could be wrong. Tressa's Chapter 2 had a recommended level of 22 while Olberic's had one of 27, so maybe different characters will be set up to do their chapter first or to do two chapters in a row, but I feel that you'll do a full curcuit of chapters before moving on to the next tier. Since you have to have the character whose chapter you're completing in your party, they'll always get some exp to bring them up to a baseline, and if you are smart about cycling your party when you need to bring someone new in for their chapter, I think that it'll be easy to keep a well-trained team of 8. Your first character will always be a little higher leveled than everyone else, but the game appears to be designed to force every character into your party for parts of it so no one should ever get truly left behind.

Zaphod42
Sep 13, 2012

If there's anything more important than my ego around, I want it caught and shot now.

doingitwrong posted:

Locking the ability to mix and match party formations to try out new strategies behind grinding random combat does not increase player agency. All it does is pad out completion times—which appeals to people looking to get value for money by hours played, I guess, but cheapens the moment to moment experience by making players engage in unchallenging busywork.

You only have to grind if you're a minmax sperg or if you seriously ignore a char for 40 hours and then decide you want them. Relax.

Zaphod42
Sep 13, 2012

If there's anything more important than my ego around, I want it caught and shot now.

MMF Freeway posted:

There is another option and its just playing with whoever you want and sometimes they are underleveled and if you like them and use them enough eventually they'll catch up.

Bingo

Andrast
Apr 21, 2010


Zaphod42 posted:

You only have to grind if you're a minmax sperg

:jerkbag:

Red Alert 2 Yuris Revenge
May 8, 2006

"My brain is amazing! It's full of wrinkles, and... Uh... Wait... What am I trying to say?"
Yeah just because it won't massively effect your ability to finish the game (we assume) doesn't mean that it's not an archaic throwback that the genre should drop.

Mezzanon
Sep 16, 2003

Pillbug
sometimes I like to relax by getting into battles and leveling a couple party members up.


Sometimes I don't.

Aquasnake
Jan 30, 2013

"I... I did well, didn't I?"
Kotaku just dropped something that said that your Protag is only locked in the party until you finish their story. And they finished 4 of the stories so far.

Mordiceius
Nov 10, 2007

If you think calling me names is gonna get a rise out me, think again. I like my life as an idiot!

Aquasnake posted:

Kotaku just dropped something that said that your Protag is only locked in the party until you finish their story. And they finished 4 of the stories so far.

Yeah, I just read that myself:

https://kotaku.com/how-octopath-travelers-structure-actually-works-1827478495

quote:

There’s been a lot of confusion about the structure of the upcoming Switch role-playing game Octopath Traveler, namely surrounding the game’s eight main characters. Allow us to clear things up.

Octopath Traveler, which comes out Friday, unfolds in an entirely non-linear fashion. From the beginning, you can pick one of eight characters—the knight Olberic, the merchant Tressa, the apothecary Alfyn, the dancer Primrose, the thief Therion, the cleric Ophilia, the scholar Cyrus, or the hunter H’aanit—to be your main protagonist. Each of these characters has their own story, and you can’t remove them from your party until you beat that story, but aside from that, this choice doesn’t matter much. You can see all eight stories in a single playthrough.

So let’s say you pick Cyrus. After beating Chapter 1 of his story, you’ll see a map that looks something like this:

What that means is that you can go around the world recruiting the rest of these characters by completing their Chapter 1s. You can (and should) get all eight, although you can only keep four of them in your main party at a time. As you recruit them, you’ll get the option of skipping their intro sequences, although you’ll have to go through a simple dungeon and beat a boss before you can finish each Chapter 1.

As you unlock each character, you’ll open up their second chapters, which are sprinkled across the world map. You can go do them in whatever order you’d like:

When you beat a character’s Chapter 2, you’ll unlock their Chapter 3, and so on and so on. It’s up to you if you want to do all of the Chapter 2s at once, or focus on just a few stories at a time until you finish them. But the level gates are steep, and characters who aren’t in your active party won’t gain experience, which makes progression a lot more complicated than it should be. (There is level scaling in the game, but as far as I can tell, it’s only for the first chapters as you’re building a party—after that, the “recommended level” for each new Chapter remains static.)

The optimal way to play is likely to pick your four favorite characters and stick with them, but Octopath Traveler allows you to be flexible. Want to maintain a rotating cast of equally powerful characters as you plow through each story one chapter at a time? Go for it. Want to try to solo the game as Ophilia? Probably a bad idea, but hey, you do you.

In the comments:

quote:

quote:

So it seems the “optimal” way to experience everything is: Create party of 4, plow through those 4 characters chapter X, use the other characters in another party, plow through their chapter X, rinse-repeat for X+1 (maybe reshuffling party)

Do the paths ever converge into one ultimate chapter, or is is really basically distinct storylines the whole way through?
Not sure if there’s some sort of bonus once you’ve beaten all eight (I’ve only finished four so far - mopping up the rest today), but they are all entirely standalone stories.

Phone
Jul 30, 2005

親子丼をほしい。

Aquasnake posted:

Kotaku just dropped something that said that your Protag is only locked in the party until you finish their story. And they finished 4 of the stories so far.

When the thread was repeating the "your starting character is locked and can never be removed!" rumor, my BS detector was going off.

unimportantguy
Dec 25, 2012

Hey, Johnny, what's a "shitpost"?
The most annoying and confusing thing to me with H'aanit is that her Japanese dialogue, judging from the voice acting, is nothing like the weird, bad English dialogue. Her Japanese dialogue is very terse and to the point. Just a weird choice overall.

Housh
Jul 9, 2001




Are you guys going to play with English or Japanese dialogue. From the first demo, I kinda enjoyed the English voice acting cause it was weird.

theshim
May 1, 2012

You think you can defeat ME, Ephraimcopter?!?

You couldn't even beat Assassincopter!!!

Mordiceius posted:

Want to try to solo the game as Ophilia? Probably a bad idea, but hey, you do you.
tell kotaku to stop loving doxxing me

Zaphod42
Sep 13, 2012

If there's anything more important than my ego around, I want it caught and shot now.

Aquasnake posted:

Kotaku just dropped something that said that your Protag is only locked in the party until you finish their story. And they finished 4 of the stories so far.

Interesting.

Zaphod42
Sep 13, 2012

If there's anything more important than my ego around, I want it caught and shot now.

unimportantguy posted:

The most annoying and confusing thing to me with H'aanit is that her Japanese dialogue, judging from the voice acting, is nothing like the weird, bad English dialogue. Her Japanese dialogue is very terse and to the point. Just a weird choice overall.

Probably a reference to Frog's weird stilted translation in US Chrono Trigger that wasn't that way in the JP version. Some people like it some hate it.

H'aanit's dialogue really cranks it up to 11 though.

Your Computer
Oct 3, 2008




Grimey Drawer

Housh posted:

Are you guys going to play with English or Japanese dialogue. From the first demo, I kinda enjoyed the English voice acting cause it was weird.

Japanese because I'm a weeb I don't like most of the English voices.

Even if it's a bit annoying just like in Bravely Second, since the Japanese script is different so what they're saying and the text is sometimes completely different.

Sunning
Sep 14, 2011
Nintendo Guru

Zaphod42 posted:

Probably a reference to Frog's weird stilted translation in US Chrono Trigger that wasn't that way in the JP version. Some people like it some hate it.

H'aanit's dialogue really cranks it up to 11 though.

It's in Middle English.

I wonder if the French localization for her is in Occitan.

Terper
Jun 26, 2012


Nah, it's a reference to The Canterbury Tales, which Octopath certainly seems inspired by.

https://www.slideshare.net/Carrielt1/chaucer-canterbury-tales-intro-lesson-presentation

https://www.bartleby.com/40/0101.html

e: Which, as Sunning says, is Middle English.

Terper fucked around with this message at 19:31 on Jul 10, 2018

Your Computer
Oct 3, 2008




Grimey Drawer

Sunning posted:

It's in Middle English.
Is it? I know nothing about Middle English but I've neveren seenen thisen kinden ofen Englishen beforen.


I'm just used to seeing the "thou would'st knoweth" kind of faux archaic used in Dark Souls and the like.

Oiled and Ready
Oct 11, 2004

He wished it could be as respectable and orthodox as spying. But somehow in his hands the traditional tools and attitudes were always employed toward mean ends: cloak for a laundry sack, dagger to peel potatoes, dossiers to fill up dead Sunday afternoons ...

Zaphod42 posted:

Probably a reference to Frog's weird stilted translation in US Chrono Trigger that wasn't that way in the JP version. Some people like it some hate it.

H'aanit's dialogue really cranks it up to 11 though.

If we're going by the "successor in some ways to FF6" thing, it's a reference to the Gau/Cyan/"Mr. Thou" exchanges

I'd really like to know if the FF6 thing extends to the final dungeon being multiple parties you switch between, so I can decide how much to level my 2nd group of 4.

Oxxidation
Jul 22, 2007

Your Computer posted:

Is it? I know nothing about Middle English but I've the-neveren seenen thisen the-kinden ofen the-Englishen beforen.

Caros
May 14, 2008

Housh posted:

Are you guys going to play with English or Japanese dialogue. From the first demo, I kinda enjoyed the English voice acting cause it was weird.

Japanese for sure, pretty much entirely off of Olberic. They got the same guy who did Artanis for the english and it is just so off putting for me for some reason that I had to switch the language

Mega64
May 23, 2008

I took the octopath less travelered,

And it made one-eighth the difference.

theshim posted:

tell kotaku to stop loving doxxing me

You better believe I'm going to do solo runs of this baby once I get my first one or two playthroughs done.

Panic! at Nabisco
Jun 6, 2007

it seemed like a good idea at the time

Your Computer posted:

Is it? I know nothing about Middle English but I've neveren seenen thisen kinden ofen Englishen beforen.


I'm just used to seeing the "thou would'st knoweth" kind of faux archaic used in Dark Souls and the like.
English changed a lot between Chaucer's time and Shakespeare's time. Middle English is closer in style to Old English (a la Beowulf) than the Elizabethan English you usually find when games are trying to be olde timey.

pre:
Whan that aprill with his shoures soote 

The droghte of march hath perced to the roote, 

And bathed every veyne in swich licour 

Of which vertu engendred is the flour; 

Whan zephirus eek with his sweete breeth 

Inspired hath in every holt and heeth 

Tendre croppes, and the yonge sonne 

Hath in the ram his halve cours yronne,

And smale foweles maken melodye, 

That slepen al the nyght with open ye 

(so priketh hem nature in hir corages); 

Thanne longen folk to goon on pilgrimages, 

And palmeres for to seken straunge strondes, 

To ferne halwes, kowthe in sondry londes; 

And specially from every shires ende 

Of engelond to caunterbury they wende, 

The hooly blisful martir for to seke, 

That hem hath holpen whan that they were seeke. 

Panic! at Nabisco fucked around with this message at 20:51 on Jul 10, 2018

Evil Fluffy
Jul 13, 2009

Scholars are some of the most pompous and pedantic people I've ever had the joy of meeting.

Relax Or DIE posted:

Yeah just because it won't massively effect your ability to finish the game (we assume) doesn't mean that it's not an archaic throwback that the genre should drop.

Reminder that out of combat experience has existed in RPGs since Final Fantasy 4 for the SNES (it's why people are a higher level if/when they rejoin you), and in Dragon Quest 4 non-combat party members in Chapter 5 gained XP as long as the wagon was present. The idea of having people not in your active party gain XP isn't even a new idea. :shrug:

Excluding scaling exp systems and/or massive rosters (like Suikoden), not having out of party experience only serves to punish people who want to use more party members, or pad out a game with grinding. And in Suikoden's case the leveling system is often too generous and it can be abused to blow past the level curve repeatedly in those games. It sounds like the scaling might be decent enough to where little-used characters won't be that badly left in the dust, but it would've been nice if they'd have designed for all party members to gain XP and just adjust the leveling system to work that way. Unless the subclassing setup is such that most people are never going to care about using more than 4 specific characters (or 3 and the story character for whomever's story they're running at the time).

Mordiceius posted:

In the comments:

Not sure if there’s some sort of bonus once you’ve beaten all eight (I’ve only finished four so far - mopping up the rest today), but they are all entirely standalone stories.


Was fine in SaGa Frontier, will be fine in this. Though I wouldn't object to the next game by this team to be structured with you recruiting everyone so that they can develop later stories with other characters in mind.

Books On Tape
Dec 26, 2003

Future of the franchise
If the early reviews/articles are right in that there is no sign of the eight stories connecting to a single story arc, I'll be a bit disappointed. I mean, they have to connect eventually somehow, right?

ExcessBLarg!
Sep 1, 2001
They either don't connect at all, or there's one final boss fight after you complete each character's individual story.

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homeless snail
Mar 14, 2007

Books On Tape posted:

If the early reviews/articles are right in that there is no sign of the eight stories connecting to a single story arc, I'll be a bit disappointed. I mean, they have to connect eventually somehow, right?
Wouldn't be too unusual for this kinda game

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