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banned from Starbucks posted:D&d goons can't possibly envision a scenario in which they aren't completely incompetent or their kids massively stupid. i think it's more that we can't envision a scenario in which you aren't incredibly incompetent, tbh
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Jul 12, 2018 18:59
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banned from Starbucks posted:D&d goons can't possibly envision a scenario in which they aren't completely incompetent or their kids massively stupid. if that's the kind of stuff you've been putting in their heads, there's absolutely no doubt that your children are indeed extremely stupid
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Jul 12, 2018 19:07
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The second amendment should have been repealed after the civil war proved that in the event of any violent uprising just as many citizens will fight against the cause as for it. It's a useless amendment, there's always enough people to voluntarily quash any rebellion without even needing to get the military involved. This "take back the government" fantasy on a large scale would just result in the country turning into occupation-era Iraq. Or Syria. Repeal the second amendment, ban ammunition sales except to extremely well vetted folks (country fucks who want to hunt deer) and limit magazines to 2 rounds.
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Jul 12, 2018 19:19
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Elizabethan Error posted:It's called "living in reality" where guns are rarely used for self-defense in home invasion scenarios. but please, continue with your fantasies. they're really entertaining. I think my favorite part of the Kleck study with the 2.5 million number absolutely dwarfs what is actually reported. Apparently gun owners have to use their guns all the time for self-defense, but never bother to report it to the authorities. 
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Jul 12, 2018 19:24
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banned from Starbucks posted:D&d goons can't possibly envision a scenario in which they aren't completely incompetent or their kids massively stupid. Just 1 goon is doing that, and it's you
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Jul 12, 2018 21:08
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banned from Starbucks posted:D&d goons can't possibly envision a scenario in which they aren't completely incompetent or their kids massively stupid. Get back to us when you guys stop getting shot by toddlers.
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Jul 12, 2018 22:54
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WampaLord posted:Statistically you're much more likely to plug one of the kids when they're up late to go get a glass of water and they make a noise. Statistically its most likely you will never shoot your gun, never have an accident with it , and also never have to use it in self defence either. You are comparing freak accidents that are uncommon to rare violent crimes. Both which wont happen to 99% of gun owners. Most likely when you have a gun in the house nothing will happen
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Jul 12, 2018 23:00
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So you're saying it's more likely a gun will be either useless or detrimental than that it'll be useful. Yeah, sure sounds like a good investment.
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Jul 12, 2018 23:03
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"Most likely I'm not going to have my head bashed in by a heavy crane", says the construction worker who eschews wearing his helmet.
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Jul 12, 2018 23:05
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Zanzibar Ham posted:So you're saying it's more likely a gun will be either useless or detrimental than that it'll be useful. Yeah, sure sounds like a good investment. better for ten innocents to die than for us to suffer one burglar to live
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Jul 12, 2018 23:12
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I CANNOT EJACULATE WITHOUT SEEING NATIVE AMERICANS BRUTALISED!
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zapplez posted:Statistically its most likely you will never shoot your gun, never have an accident with it , and also never have to use it in self defence either. Yes that's true, most likely nothing will happen. But that doesn't mean that it's worthless to compare the rates of occurrence. In risk assessment you look at likelihood and consequence, not just likelihood. That's worth doing here when the consequence is life-ending What matters in the case of gun ownership is that you're more likely to lose a loved one by owning a gun, even when you account for the small likelihood of saving a loved one.
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Jul 12, 2018 23:39
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zapplez posted:Statistically its most likely you will never shoot your gun, never have an accident with it , and also never have to use it in self defence either. The context of the post I was replying to was clear, he's talking about a situation where one would need/want to use the gun, not do nothing. I agree most guns in the home do nothing at all in that home, but it doesn't change the fact that owning a gun makes your family statistically less safer overall.
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Jul 12, 2018 23:40
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zapplez posted:Statistically its most likely you will never shoot your gun, never have an accident with it , and also never have to use it in self defence either. Elizabethan Error posted:bringing a firearm into a situation increases the probability of fatal incident Does it hurt being that wrong zapplez?
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Jul 12, 2018 23:46
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Elizabethan Error posted:Does it hurt being that wrong zapplez? doesn't seem to have ever bothered him before
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Jul 12, 2018 23:46
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botany posted:doesn't seem to have ever bothered him before
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Jul 12, 2018 23:49
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WampaLord posted:The context of the post I was replying to was clear, he's talking about a situation where one would need/want to use the gun, not do nothing. Those statistics lump every gun owner together, from the alcoholic domestic abuser to the well-adjusted chill guy who goes to church every Sunday and packs his kids' lunch everyday. The reason people who want guns for self-defense don't buy the "statistics show that owning a gun is more likely to hurt you than protect you" is because they are well-adjusted individuals who care about their safety and take precautions to make sure their guns are stored safely, and assume the cases where the gun did hurt a loved one was a case of a "bad owner".
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Jul 13, 2018 00:05
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qkkl posted:Those statistics lump every gun owner together, from the alcoholic domestic abuser to the well-adjusted chill guy who goes to church every Sunday and packs his kids' lunch everyday. The reason people who want guns for self-defense don't buy the "statistics show that owning a gun is more likely to hurt you than protect you" is because they are well-adjusted individuals who care about their safety and take precautions to make sure their guns are stored safely, and assume the cases where the gun did hurt a loved one was a case of a "bad owner". Elizabethan Error posted:the vast majority of 'mass shootings**' have been committed with legally obtained weapons.
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Jul 13, 2018 00:14
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qkkl posted:Those statistics lump every gun owner together, from the alcoholic domestic abuser to the well-adjusted chill guy who goes to church every Sunday and packs his kids' lunch everyday. The reason people who want guns for self-defense don't buy the "statistics show that owning a gun is more likely to hurt you than protect you" is because they are well-adjusted individuals who care about their safety and take precautions to make sure their guns are stored safely, and assume the cases where the gun did hurt a loved one was a case of a "bad owner". If only the CDC was allowed to study whether being a well-adjusted individual makes any difference, but for some reason gunhavers are opposed to that kind of research. I guess so that they can claim that kind of result without having to know whether it's really true or not
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Jul 13, 2018 00:18
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QuarkJets posted:If only the CDC was allowed to study whether being a well-adjusted individual makes any difference, but for some reason gunhavers are opposed to that kind of research. I guess so that they can claim that kind of result without having to know whether it's really true or not Bingo, the first step in actual gun control should be to allow these studies to take place. Once statistics that pro-gun people can actually relate to are released that show that yes, guns are bad even for you then they might actually start voting for more gun control.
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Jul 13, 2018 00:22
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qkkl posted:Once statistics that pro-gun people can actually relate to are released that show that yes, guns are bad even for you then they might actually start voting for more gun control.
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Jul 13, 2018 00:28
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qkkl posted:Those statistics lump every gun owner together, from the alcoholic domestic abuser to the well-adjusted chill guy who goes to church every Sunday and packs his kids' lunch everyday. The reason people who want guns for self-defense don't buy the "statistics show that owning a gun is more likely to hurt you than protect you" is because they are well-adjusted individuals who care about their safety and take precautions to make sure their guns are stored safely, and assume the cases where the gun did hurt a loved one was a case of a "bad owner". Ever heard of the Dunning Krueger effect? Everyone who owns a gun is a 'well adjusted individual' until they do something stupid and magically transition from one of the 'good guys' into a 'bad owner'. Every 'good owner' is only a good owner until they do something stupid. And you trying to flip it into a binary good/bad switch is you trying to simplify and ignore the statistics that prove that guns do not make anyone safer. Most deaths from guns are from suicide, because it's just so easy. That chill guy that goes to church every sunday and packs his kid's lunches is only a good owner until someone knocks on his door in the middle of the night looking for help, and the instant he opens the door, he fires his shotgun directly into her face, killing her. Y'know Just like this E-Tank fucked around with this message at 00:43 on Jul 13, 2018 |
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Jul 13, 2018 00:38
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qkkl posted:Bingo, the first step in actual gun control should be to allow these studies to take place. Once statistics that pro-gun people can actually relate to are released that show that yes, guns are bad even for you then they might actually start voting for more gun control. Ahhhh yes, the people who didn't reason themselves into their conclusion definitely will be reasoned out of it if we just find the right stat! I hope you're not actually this naive to believe that.
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Jul 13, 2018 00:54
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Raldikuk posted:Ahhhh yes, the people who didn't reason themselves into their conclusion definitely will be reasoned out of it if we just find the right stat! I hope you're not actually this naive to believe that. No one reasoned themselves into smoking, either, yet data was the root cause of a decades-long decline in smoking behavior
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Jul 13, 2018 01:04
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People who call themselves "gun owners" are by definition not well-adjusted.
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Jul 13, 2018 01:07
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fishmech posted:People who call themselves "gun owners" are by definition not well-adjusted. Common man. If we just want to do negative sweeping generalizations all day we can start with anyone that watches anime is a sex offender. Probably a higher rate than gun owners being violent.
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Jul 13, 2018 01:59
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zapplez posted:Common man. Lol typical self-identified gun owner, pretending they're some sort of royalty.
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Jul 13, 2018 02:36
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QuarkJets posted:No one reasoned themselves into smoking, either, yet data was the root cause of a decades-long decline in smoking behavior Speak for yourself, I took up smoking in 1951 after the Surgeon General recommended Chesterfield-brand cigarettes to promote lung and heart function, improve reaction time, and increase cognitive function.
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Jul 13, 2018 02:43
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QuarkJets posted:No one reasoned themselves into smoking, either, yet data was the root cause of a decades-long decline in smoking behavior Every person I know that has quit smoking has done so for one of two reasons. 1) Their high cost due to sin taxes 2) feeling socially ostracized due to indoor smoking bans. The latter has been one of the major ones I have heard. Now certainly those policies were put into place due to data, but the peeps affected didn't reason out that cigarettes are actually bad so I will quit. That itself bolsters my view that it is public policy which curbs that sort of stuff. Gun fetishists aren't going to be convinced by a CDC study, but we can put policies in place due to that data which over the long haul will change peoples behaviors. Which is the other side of the smoking thing; a huge factor in smoking rates falling is due to fewer teens picking it up. So there definitely is value in using the data to shape education policies to convince those that can be and then use public policy to prevent them from accessing it even if they wish to (for cigs this is heavy enforcement of min smoking age, raising the age, etc).
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Jul 13, 2018 03:02
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Raldikuk posted:Every person I know that has quit smoking has done so for one of two reasons. 1) Their high cost due to sin taxes 2) feeling socially ostracized due to indoor smoking bans. The latter has been one of the major ones I have heard. Right, so data was the root cause, like I said
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Jul 13, 2018 03:06
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QuarkJets posted:Right, so data was the root cause, like I said I never suggested data wasn't useful so I am not sure what your point is. My specific point was that for a gun fetishist a new CDC study will not reason them out of their position and we shouldn't pretend it will. What new CDC studies can do is convince the non gun fetishists that we need stricter gun control and elect people to do so.
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Jul 13, 2018 03:41
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zapplez posted:Statistically its most likely you will never shoot your gun, never have an accident with it , and also never have to use it in self defence either. So why the gently caress does everyone think they need a gun?
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Jul 13, 2018 03:48
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Raldikuk posted:I never suggested data wasn't useful so I am not sure what your point is. My specific point was that for a gun fetishist a new CDC study will not reason them out of their position and we shouldn't pretend it will. My point was that it sounded like you were disagreeing with me, but then everything you said was in-line with what I said so it's all good
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Jul 13, 2018 03:50
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Iv've often thought "How many guns do I need?" So I am writing the below to provide some insight as to why many gun owners own the purported 18 firearms each. If you think of guns as a tool you would use to apply lethal force to a problem, you can then see the need for a variety of firearms to solve problems with. Working from the inside out: 1. A self defense hand gun: to be kept at bedside. You need a gun you can quickly grab and use when awoken. There are numerous choices here but really the best gun is the one you are the most comfortable and proficient with. Some argue for larger caliber or more capacity but that is a trade off each user will need to make. 2. A shotgun: for self defense use when clearing or defending your residence primarily within an urban setting. Rifle bullets tend to over penetrate residential construction, and shotguns can be effective with shorter barrels which make using them in confinded spaces preferable as a long arm. 12 ga pump is the obvious choice 3. A CQB rifle: typically in smaller cartridge like .223 or 7.62x 39mm, this rifle is useful for engaging targets in an urban setting and scale. The primary goal is to consistently be able to hit man sized targets at 100 yards. This rifle should have a standard sized magazine, and be light enough you can use move quickly with it within buildings or other urban terrian, it should also me short enough to easily manouver within vehicles. You may wish to store this gun in your car or truck for easily access when needed. 4. A conceal carry hand gun: like the handgun for home defense however you also need to consider concealment utility as well. Many factors like, climate, build, and sex will influence your choices here. There is a strong argument to be made to have this be the same caliber and or model as your bedside gun. 5. A Battle Rifle: this should be a full sized rifle with a 30 caliber cartridge or better. the obvious choices are .308 or 30-06 though the 7.63x51 has served the commies well. The cartridge should reliability shoot through concealment including vehicles and residential structures. This cartridge should also reliably defeat most body armor. You should be familiar with using this weapon at 300-1000 yards. This rifle will allow you to fulfil the designated marksman role, or give you a range advantage against targets using only light rifles like the AR-15. So there you have it the 5 basic guns everyone should own. Obviously many gun owners like to collect historical weapons. Or own fireams specifically designed for hunting or other shooting sports like clays. I don't recommend that the average gun owner invest in an actual target rifle for long distance shooting. Sure these can be fun activities as a test of both equipment and shooter percision but this class of shooting provides diminishing returns in utility. It is better to put lots of time and practice into the 4-5 basic gun use cases.
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Jul 13, 2018 04:34
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Elizabethan Error posted:Does it hurt being that wrong zapplez? I can think of something that hurts gun loving goons worse tl;dr the link goes to an offsite copy of an old thread by a goon who blew his own leg off with a shotgun while menacing some guy rummaging in the scrap pile outside his trailer.
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Jul 13, 2018 04:37
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qkkl posted:Those statistics lump every gun owner together, from the alcoholic domestic abuser to the well-adjusted chill guy who goes to church every Sunday and packs his kids' lunch everyday. The reason people who want guns for self-defense don't buy the "statistics show that owning a gun is more likely to hurt you than protect you" is because they are well-adjusted individuals who care about their safety and take precautions to make sure their guns are stored safely, and assume the cases where the gun did hurt a loved one was a case of a "bad owner". *checks watch* wow didn’t realize it was time to post “gunfucking dipshit in gun thread has bad and dumb point to make” again stone cold posted:one specific type of gun, cool cool cool stone cold posted:
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Jul 13, 2018 04:44
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Admiral posted:So why the gently caress does everyone think they need a gun? its really fun to shoot pop cans
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Jul 13, 2018 05:24
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KingFisher posted:Iv've often thought "How many guns do I need?" unless you're depressed.
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Jul 13, 2018 05:28
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Admiral posted:So why the gently caress does everyone think they need a gun? The vastly majority of Americans don't think that.
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Jul 13, 2018 13:40
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qkkl posted:Those statistics lump every gun owner together, from the alcoholic domestic abuser to the well-adjusted chill guy who goes to church every Sunday and packs his kids' lunch everyday. The reason people who want guns for self-defense don't buy the "statistics show that owning a gun is more likely to hurt you than protect you" is because they are well-adjusted individuals who care about their safety and take precautions to make sure their guns are stored safely, and assume the cases where the gun did hurt a loved one was a case of a "bad owner". How much do you truly believe this changes things, and why do you think that? There are stories about accidents in the news all the time involving an accident occurring during a brief lapse for someone who otherwise believes themselves to be a model owner. I would venture to posit that many model owners are model owners if and only if you consider only themselves as to the authority of determining model ownership. Achieving true levels of gun safety/model ownership would be both a) difficult to expect from the general human population and b) prevent the presence of a gun in the fantasy scenarios that people concoct to support gun ownership in the first place.
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Jul 13, 2018 14:05
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fishmech posted:The vastly majority of Americans don't think that. Gun ownership is a minority hobby, but somehow nobody has noticed this yet. Hardcore gun nuts in turn are a tiny minority of that minority, but for some reason everyone acts like we need to take their poo poo opinions seriously. 3% of Americans own 50% of the guns. 19% of Americans own the other 50% of the guns. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/09/19/just-three-percent-of-adults-own-half-of-americas-guns/?utm_term=.45383714df7e
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Jul 13, 2018 14:22
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