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Potsticker posted:I think Mikazuki would've improved Wing's story quite a bit, were the two protagonists swapped between shows. One of the main reasons Mikazuki and the other child soldiers in IBO work so well and come off as such weirdos is because IBO actually lets them interact with normal people as a contrast point. Mika and Kudelia are both humans, but Kudelia is a normal person with empathy and Mikazuki is a murder robot with his own entirely hosed up set of values and these two have to find some kind of common ground. You also have characters like Atra who exist as a sort of middle ground between "hosed up" and "normal person" to bridge the gap. Heero Yuy is just as much of a messed up murder robot as Mika, but everyone in Wing is a pontificating crazy person with their own list of issues so he never gets to bounce off anyone "normal" to contextualize his personal weirdness in the same way. Mika in Wing probably wouldn't come off all that different from Heero. Both of them are ruthless killers who have no qualms about pushing themselves beyond the point of human endurance to accomplish a goal, both of them have absolutely no regard for their own well-being, and both of them are capable of seeing that the present world situation is hosed up and needs to change and they're not the one who's going to change it so they're willing to tacitly put their faith in a brave woman who wants to effect that change.
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Jul 11, 2018 22:46
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I was being glib, but you're absolutely correct.
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Jul 11, 2018 22:48
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Mika wouldn't have fallen for Relena 2.0s total pacifism routine like Heero does (since deep down Mika doesn't want the violence to stop), but that's the only significant difference in characterisation.
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Jul 11, 2018 22:55
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I've accepted my bad taste and unabashedly whole heartedly love Wing and it's my true favorite but it's better to start with a UC series or SEED imo. If you like them then there is a ton of merch and related side stories that you can branch into that make it fun. I absolutely hate SEED's character designs but everything else is fine. Other than just find one that looks interesting to you and go from there. Just keep your eye out for Zeon apologists, men from Jupiter, and know nothing good happens on Mars.
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Jul 11, 2018 23:24
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sassassin posted:Mika wouldn't have fallen for Relena 2.0s total pacifism routine like Heero does (since deep down Mika doesn't want the violence to stop), but that's the only significant difference in characterisation. Heero doesn't fall for Relena's pacifism routine, either. He respects her goal and supports it, but he never stops fighting or being ready to fight at a moment's notice.
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Jul 11, 2018 23:27
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Tulalip Tulips posted:I've accepted my bad taste and unabashedly whole heartedly love Wing and it's my true favorite but it's better to start with a UC series or SEED imo. If you like them then there is a ton of merch and related side stories that you can branch into that make it fun. I absolutely hate SEED's character designs but everything else is fine. Other than just find one that looks interesting to you and go from there. Just keep your eye out for Zeon apologists, men from Jupiter, and know nothing good happens on Mars. SEED is a great choice other than the fact that the combination of its character designs and early-aughts digital coloring will sear your eyes. Also its sequel was so bad it soured the well for what seemed poised at the time to be a big new sub-franchise (like the gunpla series are today). There's a reason SEED was a smash hit, but there's also a reason they're not still making more of them.
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Jul 11, 2018 23:31
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SEED is loving bad
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Jul 11, 2018 23:32
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SEED is only okay, just like most Gundam series tbh.
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Jul 11, 2018 23:33
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At the end of the day there a bunch to choose from when it comes to Gundam so go hog wild. Speaking of, now that I will be getting a PS4 in the near future are there good guides to SRW stuff? I know Super Robot Wars X has an English edition but I've seen a lot recs for Z and Alpha and they both sound good to me.
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Jul 11, 2018 23:41
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Five or even ten years ago I didn't really imagine myself being the guy standing up for SEED but oh wellRaxivace posted:SEED is only okay, just like most Gundam series tbh. You're right, but it's still a great choice for an introduction to Gundam
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Jul 11, 2018 23:42
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Because there's so much of it, "this is pretty mediocre but I enjoy it anyway" is sort of the default Gundam experience so you may as well reach that level of understanding first.
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Jul 11, 2018 23:45
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Tulalip Tulips posted:At the end of the day there a bunch to choose from when it comes to Gundam so go hog wild. There are very rough story "translations" on gamefaqs by a guy called mneidengard. I wouldn't really recommend them though, they're written so dryly it sucks all the fun out of the writing and he's really stubborn about transliterating every character's name (so he calls Zeon Jion and Kamille Kamiyu for example) which I personally find very annoying. Also it's been a while since I checked so idk if he's done any of the more recent ones.
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Jul 11, 2018 23:46
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Xarbala posted:Five or even ten years ago I didn't really imagine myself being the guy standing up for SEED but oh well Not if you want compelling, good-looking action, which is one of the biggest draws of the franchise. SEED isn’t just ugly, it’s lazy - way too many flashbacks, way too much stock footage. The big mid-season climax fight is hilarious because both combatants are using their exact same stock footage attacks they’ve used on each other over and over already, with the only difference being that their targets aren’t dodging this time and bits of their suits are falling off.
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Jul 11, 2018 23:48
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Xarbala posted:SEED is a great choice other than the fact that the combination of its character designs and early-aughts digital coloring will sear your eyes. Also its sequel was so bad it soured the well for what seemed poised at the time to be a big new sub-franchise (like the gunpla series are today). I genuinely don't get how Destiny stopped SEED yet the Gundam Build series continue after how bad Try was. It's not like things got better afterwards, either, Battlogue's quality was completely episode-dependent and Divers has been a snoozefest of a show. Note that I am not defending Destiny here, Destiny is awful and I hate it for having lots of promise at first then wasting all of it for Jesus Yamato Jesus Yamatoing everyone and everything, including the plot itself. Tulalip Tulips posted:Speaking of, now that I will be getting a PS4 in the near future are there good guides to SRW stuff? I know Super Robot Wars X has an English edition but I've seen a lot recs for Z and Alpha and they both sound good to me. W, Z, Z2, MX and L have full LPs done. They work extremely well as translation guides, at least for the plot, and I absolutely recommend playing alongside them. Alpha Gaiden also has a full LP but that one's fan translated already.
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Jul 12, 2018 00:33
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Tulalip Tulips posted:At the end of the day there a bunch to choose from when it comes to Gundam so go hog wild. V is also available for PS4, and I'd recommend Gundam Breaker 3 as wrll
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Jul 12, 2018 00:38
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Blaze Dragon posted:I genuinely don't get how Destiny stopped SEED yet the Gundam Build series continue after how bad Try was. It's not like things got better afterwards, either, Battlogue's quality was completely episode-dependent and Divers has been a snoozefest of a show. Destiny apparently had some behind the scenes problems and the lead writer had a serious illness (which she passed away from a few years back.) The combination of the two kinda tanked the series.
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Jul 12, 2018 00:38
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Kanos posted:Heero doesn't fall for Relena's pacifism routine, either. He respects her goal and supports it, but he never stops fighting or being ready to fight at a moment's notice. Heero dreams of peace to the point where he'll readily accept death to find it (as that's the only way out his mission/programming permits). Her ideology is inherently attractive to him in a way that Kudelia's isn't to Mika. Mika likes Kudelia as a person, while Heero only loves Relena's politics.
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Jul 12, 2018 00:40
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Blaze Dragon posted:I genuinely don't get how Destiny stopped SEED yet the Gundam Build series continue after how bad Try was. It's not like things got better afterwards, either, Battlogue's quality was completely episode-dependent and Divers has been a snoozefest of a show. My guess is that Try's model kits still sold well enough, because at the end of the day that's what really matters.
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Jul 12, 2018 01:30
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Tulalip Tulips posted:At the end of the day there a bunch to choose from when it comes to Gundam so go hog wild. There are official English translations for V and X, though you have to put in a little elbow grease to get 'em. You have to make sure you're buying the South East Asia (SEA) edition, not the Japanese. Physical copies of V are going to be pretty rare, so be prepared to make a Singapore PS4 account to download it. V adds Hathaway's Flash, Crossbone: Skullheart, and Crossbone: Steel 7 for the first time in a SRW game, while X has G-Reco. They both have a smattering of other UC series you'd expect, with the former bringing Unicorn to the mix and the latter busting out Beltorchika's Children. Blaze Dragon posted:W, Z, Z2, MX and L have full LPs done. They work extremely well as translation guides, at least for the plot, and I absolutely recommend playing alongside them. Alpha Gaiden also has a full LP but that one's fan translated already. Unofficial translations exist for Alpha Gaiden (debut of Turn A & X), SRW 3 (debut of 0080 & 0083), Judgement (only has SEED & G Gundam), and Advance Portable (No Gundam debuts, but it was the last hurrah of First Gundam).
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Jul 12, 2018 02:18
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Tulalip Tulips posted:At the end of the day there a bunch to choose from when it comes to Gundam so go hog wild. The Super Robot Wars thread will hook you up, my dude.
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Jul 12, 2018 03:02
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The difference between Destiny and Try is that Destiny's flaws come from backstage drama while Try is purely the result of executive fuckery, and executives, once invested by ordering sweeping mandates, will never admit to mistakes.
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Jul 12, 2018 03:04
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Midjack posted:The Super Robot Wars thread will hook you up, my dude. Oh cool! I don't venture into games since I pretty much only play games like Civilization and Crusader Kings (or fighting ganea because dudes get really mad at girls beating them in those and I find it funny) so I didn't think to look there for an SRW thread. Thanks for all the recs, everyone!
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Jul 12, 2018 03:12
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Paper Kaiju posted:My guess is that Try's model kits still sold well enough, because at the end of the day that's what really matters. Build Divers kits have been almost entirely superior too, just because they're actual customs again instead of mostly being
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Jul 12, 2018 05:34
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Yeah I still need to pick up that votoms grimoire kit.
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Jul 12, 2018 15:03
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Destiny's biggest problem is that it systematically shits on all the "progress" and growth of each and every character over the course of original SEED. Our returning protags have to be complete and utterly different people to make the decisions they make in Destiny compared to what they should have learned and gone through in SEED. Kira I guess escapes this but becomes such a windbag of untouchable plot armor that it's also dumb and irritating. Destiny has lots of problems including a completely unlikable set of new protags and stupid resurrections, but I still think the fact that it just undoes basically all the good will character growth from the second half of SEED is it's core problem.
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Jul 12, 2018 15:47
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Midjack posted:Someone mention Turn A and we'll have recommended everything. Nobody mentioned 0083. Because it's really bad.
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Jul 12, 2018 22:23
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Arcsquad12 posted:Nobody mentioned 0083. It's animated beautifully and has a great soundtrack! It's like proto-Unicorn in that it's a visual and audio treat and wonderful on those merits alone, but the plot and characters are...divisive.
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Jul 12, 2018 22:27
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Kanos posted:It's animated beautifully and has a great FTFW The Top Gun inspired intro song and the cheesy english credits music are great. The actual in show music is a mess more often than not.
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Jul 12, 2018 22:58
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I’ll stand by MEN OF DESTINY. Hell, I hope I can be one when I grow up.
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Jul 12, 2018 23:17
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I wanna get the chance.
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Jul 12, 2018 23:23
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Arcsquad12 posted:I wanna get the chance. 'Cause I'm never gonna stop streak my dream.
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Jul 12, 2018 23:58
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Realtalk though, as far as in-show music goes, the best Gundam shows are probably IBO, 08th MS Team or Thunderbolt. Unicorn has really good music but it gets overwhelming a lot of the time and the instrumentation can get so dense it muddles the melodies.
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Jul 13, 2018 00:18
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Build Fighters, spanish guitar
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Jul 13, 2018 00:28
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I'm pretty cold on the show as a whole, but yeah Build Fighters had a lot of great music. Try had a pretty good OST too that was used loving horribly.
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Jul 13, 2018 00:30
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Arcsquad12 posted:Realtalk though, as far as in-show music goes, the best Gundam shows are probably IBO, 08th MS Team or Thunderbolt. Unicorn has really good music but it gets overwhelming a lot of the time and the instrumentation can get so dense it muddles the melodies. I think Unicorn used the Main Unicorn Theme one or two too many times without enough variation.
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Jul 13, 2018 00:50
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Mimir posted:I think Unicorn used the Main Unicorn Theme one or two too many times without enough variation. The best bit of music in Unicorn is the track that plays while Mineva has a chat with the cafe owner in the middle of nowhere.
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Jul 13, 2018 00:58
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Arcsquad12 posted:Realtalk though, as far as in-show music goes, the best Gundam shows are probably IBO, 08th MS Team or Thunderbolt. Unicorn has really good music but it gets overwhelming a lot of the time and the instrumentation can get so dense it muddles the melodies. IBO's got some of the best use of music, yeah. The main theme especially. A little sad, a little heroic, a little triumphant, and it still has the kick to work as entrance music. Even aside from the theme songs, IBO's got a few tracks that stuck well enough to work for a wrestling style "Is that... Mikazuki's music?" in a Build Fighters short or something.
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Jul 13, 2018 01:21
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It's a lower key track but I like this one from IBO. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x2diH7-skeg
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Jul 13, 2018 01:24
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sassassin posted:IBO and Wing are extremely similar. Now what would make you think that https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WVcCB4fze94 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jP9PASx3bgA
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Jul 13, 2018 02:20
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Mimir posted:I think Unicorn used the Main Unicorn Theme one or two too many times without enough variation. Repeating variations on the same tune seems to be a thing that Hiroyuki Sawano just does a lot. It's happened in Kabaneri and Seraph of the End, that I've noticed.
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Jul 13, 2018 02:27
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