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Owlofcreamcheese posted:So now you can eat the frozen dinner before it's a frozen dinner and made to order to your specifications. thats just called dinner bro
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Jul 12, 2018 22:46
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luxury handset posted:thats just called dinner bro Yeah, exactly, what if the frozen dinner factory got streamlined to the point it didn't need to freeze your dinner and then have you poorly microwave it to eat it.
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Jul 12, 2018 22:49
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:Large scale complex robotic food preparation in factories is the answer to why we are now able to make small scale made to order food preparation. So now you can eat the frozen dinner before it's a frozen dinner and made to order to your specifications. Way to completely dodge the question: what breakthrough is responsible for this being viable now but not twenty years ago? Industrial robotic food preparation has been common for decades. Why is 1980s technology being hailed as a 21st-century breakthrough?
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Jul 12, 2018 22:59
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Main Paineframe posted:what breakthrough is responsible for this being viable now but not twenty years ago? imo the creator has been tinkering with this thing as a passion project, accepted $18m in venture funding, and now has to try to cobble together a business model note how the 'finished product' looks nothing like the prototype. in fact it looks way simpler. it looks exactly like what i would design if someone forced me to make a robot that spits out burgers. this thing screams minimum viable product and it has no real advantages over some teenager with a spatula, except it's a neat gimmick to hang your future restaurant around. i could see them surviving for a minute but no way will they be able to pay back let alone provide a return on the venture funding lmao
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Jul 12, 2018 23:05
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:Sauces include: Pacific Sauce (a CA riff on Thousand Island, with umeboshi and mole); Oyster Aioli, Charred Onion Jam, Sunflower Tahini, Pancetta Aioli, Garlic Sauce, Smoky Ketchup, Garlic Aioli, Hickory Smoked Jalapeño Sauce, Truffle Parm Fonduta, Blue Cheese Fonduta I can get that sort of poo poo for $5 or less at like a Shake Shack or even the big three burger chains sometimes. And hell White Castle has a lot of neat stuff for cheap albeit they insist on serving split up into multiple small burgs. BrandorKP posted:Jesus Christ here's what business give a poo poo about. The fact that all the chains with several thousand locations to have such machines placed in to save corporate $x per day don't do it should tell us a lot. Main Paineframe posted:The secret is that it's actually really really easy to cook a hamburger patty. This, exactly. There's a great reason burgers are one of the biggest fast food items: they're cheap and simple to make with minimal training to achieve that. Even fancy bullshit burgers usually just consist of "stick some more poo poo in the middle" which doesn't require much more effort. Kerning Chameleon posted:The real innovation here is this means assholes can order food without worrying the disgruntled employees in the back will spit in it. Now it will have to be generalized and the employees will have to spit in the supply and thus spit in everyone's food instead, which health inspectors can more easily catch. Is this why you think Uber making an automated Death Race 2000 machine means self-driving cars are just around the corner lol
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Jul 12, 2018 23:17
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fishmech posted:Is this why you think Uber making an automated Death Race 2000 machine means self-driving cars are just around the corner lol Never underestimate the market demand for people to be dicks to service people without fear of any consequences. There will always be a need for at least two human employee positions at every fast food franchise no matter how much automation advances: on-site manager, and designated customer punching-bag. The especially cheap companies will stupidly attempt to combine the two roles.
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Jul 12, 2018 23:23
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Kerning Chameleon posted:Never underestimate the market demand for people to be dicks to service people without fear of any consequences. There will always be a need for at least two human employee positions at every fast food franchise no matter how much automation advances: on-site manager, and designated customer punching-bag. I mean your insane hatred and suspicion of other humans just seems to indicate why you think murdercars are actually a good thing for self driving cars being available, is all.
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Jul 12, 2018 23:36
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personally i also think one of the reasons people might prefer a human cashier over a touchscreen is to run petty scams or to have targets for emotional abuse
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Jul 12, 2018 23:38
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fishmech posted:I mean your insane hatred and suspicion of other humans just seems to indicate why you think murdercars are actually a good thing for self driving cars being available, is all. If you've ever driven in a major metropolis for more than a day, you would probably understand better people like myself who think replacing all the human drivers (myself included) with robots would be an absolute net improvement, flaws in AI coding and all.
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Jul 12, 2018 23:43
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Kerning Chameleon posted:If you've ever driven in a major metropolis for more than a day, you would probably understand better people like myself who think replacing all the human drivers (myself included) with robots would be an absolute net improvement, flaws in AI coding and all. The cars are killing people and crashing frequently. They are doing bad for adoption unless all you actually want is more death.
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Jul 12, 2018 23:51
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fishmech posted:The cars are killing people and crashing frequently. They are doing bad for adoption unless all you actually want is more death. If this is your metric then you should be in favor of full adoption today, they're killing people and crashing way less frequently than human drivers.
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Jul 12, 2018 23:54
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Main Paineframe posted:Way to completely dodge the question: what breakthrough is responsible for this being viable now but not twenty years ago? Industrial robotic food preparation has been common for decades. Why is 1980s technology being hailed as a 21st-century breakthrough? Are you asking what has changed between the 1980s and 2018 that would change a system of cameras, computers and digital sensors from a large industrial process to something that would be physically sized and priced for a small business?
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Jul 13, 2018 00:30
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ElCondemn posted:If this is your metric then you should be in favor of full adoption today, they're killing people and crashing way less frequently than human drivers. Cool, another death cultist. No, they're not doing it "way less frequently" at all. They are being used way less frequently and a very high percentage of them are being kept to restricted areas on top of that.
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Jul 13, 2018 00:46
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fishmech posted:Cool, another death cultist. No, they're not doing it "way less frequently" at all. They are being used way less frequently and a very high percentage of them are being kept to restricted areas on top of that. How about you keep your accusations to yourself. Over 70 percent of fatal crashes happen on roadways with speed limit of 55 mph or higher. Highways account for the majority of the miles autonomous cars have traveled. Of course they're used "less frequently", because there aren't a ton of them, but per capita their fatality rate is drastically better than human drivers. The point is that in terms of hours driven compared to human drivers computers are doing a much better job. I'm just saying if this is the standard you are holding autonomous cars to then they've already surpassed your wildest dreams. Don't accuse me of poo poo, you're the one spouting nonsense.
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Jul 13, 2018 01:08
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Main Paineframe posted:Way to completely dodge the question: what breakthrough is responsible for this being viable now but not twenty years ago? Industrial robotic food preparation has been common for decades. Why is 1980s technology being hailed as a 21st-century breakthrough? A ton of things. But they all pale in comparison to the biggest thing: Feasible broad-classification real-time computer vision. Computer vision has been used for decades, but until very recently it was only feasible in extremely narrow applications due to the immaturity of the technology and processing power restrictions. Now, tons of devices, both off-the-shelf and specialized are able to heavily utilize computer vision to do new tasks completely differently than they've been done in the past. Lets clarify an important distinction since I think people aren't on the same page - it's not just cooking a patty, it's assembling an entire burger from all its constituent agreements. To a human this is a very simple task, but to do this in a fashion that can be done on-demand (not in a large and highly specified factory) and in a customizable way is a very large step for machines. Industrial robotic food preparation has been common for decades, but this is different. This step is still in the early phases (obviously), but it doesn't take a creative mind to see how close it is to really rapid adoption. It'll save a ton of money, which means it's inevitable.
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Jul 13, 2018 01:48
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:Are you asking what has changed between the 1980s and 2018 that would change a system of cameras, computers and digital sensors from a large industrial process to something that would be physically sized and priced for a small business? Cameras? Computers? Digital sensors? What the heck are you talking about? It's a conveyor belt that moves a burger patty through a special oven and under a bunch of condiment nozzles.
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Jul 13, 2018 01:49
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Taffer posted:Lets clarify an important distinction since I think people aren't on the same page - it's not just cooking a patty, it's assembling an entire burger from all its constituent agreements. To a human this is a very simple task, but to do this in a fashion that can be done on-demand (not in a large and highly specified factory) and in a customizable way is a very large step for machines. Industrial robotic food preparation has been common for decades, but this is different. This step is still in the early phases (obviously), but it doesn't take a creative mind to see how close it is to really rapid adoption. It'll save a ton of money, which means it's inevitable. the robot arm that can detect and flip a patty located in an arbitrary location on a grill is a much stronger example of this than the burger version of a conveyor belt that stops or doesn't at various predefined locations to collect onion, tomato, lettuce, sauce etc. there's nothing preventing this thing from being made in 1990 except that venture capital wasn't so desperately hungry for returns three decades ago. like the creator machine doesn't even need computer vision, the bun can be moved to the correct location just by stepping the belt back and forth a known distance. it is the simplest possible implementation of the tech
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Jul 13, 2018 01:53
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Main Paineframe posted:Cameras? Computers? Digital sensors? What the heck are you talking about? It's a conveyor belt that moves a burger patty through a special oven and under a bunch of condiment nozzles. Well they put a bunch of computers and sensors and cameras in it and you should definitely patent this computerless version you have thought up before someone else does because you could undercut their business model a bunch.
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Jul 13, 2018 01:54
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seriously a moderately bright middle schooler could think up the idea of a conveyor belt that moves a burger through an oven and between different stations. claiming that this idea is somehow unthinkably complicated and only possible with cutting edge research is, like, being perplexed as to how ancient people could build a pyramid. it's no more complex than a grocery store checkout
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Jul 13, 2018 01:58
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luxury handset posted:seriously a moderately bright middle schooler could think up the idea of a conveyor belt that moves a burger through an oven and between different stations. claiming that this idea is somehow unthinkably complicated and only possible with cutting edge research is, like, being perplexed as to how ancient people could build a pyramid. it's no more complex than a grocery store checkout Yes, that is why mass production of identical food by machines was a thing 20 years ago and why it's only more recently that that has evolved to the incremental next step of custom production of made to order food.
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Jul 13, 2018 02:04
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:Yes, that is why mass production of identical food by machines was a thing 20 years ago and why it's only more recently that that has evolved to the incremental next step of custom production of made to order food. imagine an entire burger joint full of oocc types, bumping into each other on their segways, just completely in awe and bafflement at this alien concept of "cooking" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yFKgP6cGEMM
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Jul 13, 2018 02:05
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I think that automated burger/fry/drink stations could still end up as a cheap-enough way for restaurants to establish footholds in areas where they don't want to commit a full restaurant or a food truck. E.g: wedding catering by Burger King, a beach rest area with seating provided by McDonald's, a little league game sponsored by Wendy's. It wouldn't be a national game-changer but it'd be that much more competition to local places.
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Jul 13, 2018 02:07
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RandomPauI posted:I think that automated burger/fry/drink stations have existed for decades https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pboejsWb484 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=akv4vSXa5a4
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Jul 13, 2018 02:09
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ElCondemn posted:How about you keep your accusations to yourself. Stop promoting death if you don't want to be called a death cultist? Self driving cars keep proving themselves deadly. They both have trouble driving themselves and massive problems handing control back over to the "passenger" when the self driving system realizes it can't handle something and tries to throw back. None of these vehicles are capable of a realistic use pattern for the mass public as is or in the forseeable future, so that hand-off issue is particularly salient. Their fatality rate is only better if you ignore the fact that most of their driving time is in vastly restricted scenarios for driving. And you can keep pretending they're less deadly if you want, but they aren't. Just like OOCC can pretend that all computing is magic. RandomPauI posted:I think that automated burger/fry/drink stations could still end up as a cheap-enough way for restaurants to establish footholds in areas where they don't want to commit a full restaurant or a food truck. E.g: wedding catering by Burger King, a beach rest area with seating provided by McDonald's, a little league game sponsored by Wendy's. I really think you're ignoring that those are introducing huge problems thanks to the fact the machines won't be in nicely measured, stable, and free of debris scenarios. The beach one sounds like it'll be particularly troublesome.
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Jul 13, 2018 02:11
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luxury handset posted:have existed for decades How many decades exactly do you think this thing has been in use? The internet seems to indicate they started using this widely in 2014. That is hardly "decades" by any definition. That isn't even a half of a single decade. They hand filled them in the 90s.
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Jul 13, 2018 02:18
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:How many decades exactly do you think this thing has been in use? The internet seems to indicate they started using this widely in 2014. That is hardly "decades" by any definition. That isn't even a half of a single decade. They hand filled them in the 90s. i guess computing technology just wasn't advanced enough to put cups into sockets and move them along a conveyor belt until 2014 maybe i'm just better at google than you are? earliest patent i could find for a system like this was filed in 1984 Mr. Fall Down Terror fucked around with this message at 02:26 on Jul 13, 2018 |
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Jul 13, 2018 02:21
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ElCondemn posted:How about you keep your accusations to yourself. What exactly are you basing this on? From the fatality data we have right now, they are pretty comparable. And AV have an exceptionally small sample size which should be concerning if you really want to hang your hat on the idea we need to mass implement the half-baked solutions now en masse. I'm sure you're not relying on Tesla's airbag deployed data... right?
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Jul 13, 2018 02:33
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:How many decades exactly do you think this thing has been in use? The internet seems to indicate they started using this widely in 2014. That is hardly "decades" by any definition. That isn't even a half of a single decade. They hand filled them in the 90s. In the year 1947, the same year the transistor was invented, the Rudd-Melikian Company invented a vending machine which would automatically dispense a paper cup into the perfect place to fit under a nozzle, and then fill the cup with the appropriate volume of coffee using standard instant coffee and hot water. You had your coffee ready in in under 10 seconds from dropping the coin in the slot. By the 1950s there were hundreds of thousands of such devices deployed by many companies, worldwide. Extremely similar mechanisms were developed by that time to prepare other drinks, and offer multiple choices in the same machine in both drink dispensed and size of container. Things like dispensing measured portions of ice into drinks were also available. Essentially you could have that machine on the counter there before any humans had exited Earth's atmosphere. Raldikuk posted:What exactly are you basing this on? From the fatality data we have right now, they are pretty comparable. And AV have an exceptionally small sample size which should be concerning if you really want to hang your hat on the idea we need to mass implement the half-baked solutions now en masse. Essentially it relies on counting a bunch of testing that had a dude with hands on the wheel actively paying attention the whole time, tests where there were multiple people in the vehicle observing (and thus simplifying some aspects of emergency handoff), mass amounts of tests on semi-closed courses like how Google/Waymo's vehicles had a lot of driving done only on extremely detailed mapped areas immediately around HQ, with limits on speed beyond the posted speed limits, etc. fishmech fucked around with this message at 03:04 on Jul 13, 2018 |
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Jul 13, 2018 02:59
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fishmech posted:In the year 1947, the same year the transistor was invented, the Rudd-Melikian Company invented a vending machine which would automatically dispense a paper cup into the perfect place to fit under a nozzle, and then fill the cup with the appropriate volume of coffee using standard instant coffee and hot water. You had your coffee ready in in under 10 seconds from dropping the coin in the slot. By the 1950s there were hundreds of thousands of such devices deployed by many companies, worldwide. Extremely similar mechanisms were developed by that time to prepare other drinks, and offer multiple choices in the same machine in both drink dispensed and size of container. And yet mcdonalds didn't use the drink thing until 2014. And hide it in the back so it doesn't function as any type of tech bro specticle. How do you explain that? Other than the obvious that things slowly drop in price in increase in function until they fill more and more roles.
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Jul 13, 2018 03:04
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:And yet mcdonalds didn't use the drink thing until 2014. And hide it in the back so it doesn't function as any type of tech bro specticle. How do you explain that? Other than the obvious that things slowly drop in price in increase in function until they fill more and more roles. McDonald's used automated dispensers before 2014, you're just oblivious.
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Jul 13, 2018 03:05
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:And yet mcdonalds didn't use the drink thing until 2014. And hide it in the back so it doesn't function as any type of tech bro specticle. How do you explain that? Other than the obvious that things slowly drop in price in increase in function until they fill more and more roles. it wasn't economical to use widely before? or you're just bad at research. both of these possibilities are more likely than nobody thought of a way to move a cup under a spigot using a machine until nearly fifty years after man landed on the moon
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Jul 13, 2018 03:14
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:And yet mcdonalds didn't use the drink thing until 2014. And hide it in the back so it doesn't function as any type of tech bro specticle. How do you explain that? Other than the obvious that things slowly drop in price in increase in function until they fill more and more roles. I see you've gone from "widely adopted" to "existed". Funny cuz you said the former to dismiss it being a thing that has existed for decades. I've seen busier McDs using them since at least 2004 and the machine itself existed long before that. Edit 1: Oh looky here, the McDs one specifically was patented in 1997. Patent Info Edit 2: oh hey and a similar device patented in 1990. more patent info 
Raldikuk fucked around with this message at 03:36 on Jul 13, 2018 |
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Jul 13, 2018 03:33
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So this seems to be a thing https://www.forbes.com/sites/forbestechcouncil/2018/07/12/welcome-to-the-age-of-recruiting-automation/#1495c6591865 Welcome To The Age Of Recruiting Automation quote:As the hiring process has evolved from newspaper ads to job boards to social recruiting, the next wave of this industry is recruiting automation. Just as salespeople and marketers have benefited from software-enabled automation in recent years, recruiters are increasingly turning to automated mechanisms for hiring the best talent, and the industry is responding accordingly. From initial candidate sourcing to the final hiring decision, new technologies are coming to market quickly to address the latest hurdle. Today, the recruiting automation landscape encompasses nearly 70 different technologies, and we anticipate this number will only grow. Granted the author is the CEO of a company that specializes in automating the hiring process. But I wouldn't be surprised if this winds up being one more tool to disqualify minority populations in a way that indemnifies the employer. Edit: Australia needs more data scientists they can fire more train conductors. drunkill posted:RIP train drivers, no longer needed. RandomPauI fucked around with this message at 06:49 on Jul 13, 2018 |
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Jul 13, 2018 04:41
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I wonder why people are joyful at the thought of one of the few jobs left to people without training being automated away I remember when I was doing lovely food service jobs I wasn’t thinking “gee I hope this gets automated away so the old guy with the crippled arm I work with dies on the streets”, I was thinking “I wish we had a better social safety net and better worker rights so this job wouldn’t suck so much and so old guy can retire” Condiv fucked around with this message at 12:54 on Jul 13, 2018 |
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Jul 13, 2018 12:52
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I'm not joyful at the job losses themselves, and yeah I wish we had better safety nets/retraining programs for people. I do enjoy technological progress as a whole, even though making some jobs obsolete is a somewhat common feature.
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Jul 13, 2018 13:08
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Cicero posted:I'm not joyful at the job losses themselves, and yeah I wish we had better safety nets/retraining programs for people. Unfortunately, retraining programs are frequently scams on the level of Phoenix university and coding boot camps. Further, retraining doesn’t mean that jobs will suddenly be available for the new skillset, especially in the highly inefficient capitalist model. While I would celebrate automation and it’s ability to free people of the drudgery of work they’d rather not do, our current system makes life near impossible for people who don’t or can’t work. A system where people could instead focus on art or science or whatever other passions they have would be nice, but we don’t live in it, so every job that is automated is just another group of people thrown into deeper poverty. Condiv fucked around with this message at 13:27 on Jul 13, 2018 |
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Jul 13, 2018 13:24
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:Well they put a bunch of computers and sensors and cameras in it and you should definitely patent this computerless version you have thought up before someone else does because you could undercut their business model a bunch. I can't patent it, because prior art exists in the form of fifty-plus years of food factories using the exact same technology. There's no way that machine has even a single camera in it. RandomPauI posted:I think that automated burger/fry/drink stations could still end up as a cheap-enough way for restaurants to establish footholds in areas where they don't want to commit a full restaurant or a food truck. E.g: wedding catering by Burger King, a beach rest area with seating provided by McDonald's, a little league game sponsored by Wendy's. I can't imagine that a portable food factory is going to be significantly cheaper than a portable grill and a minifridge. The real cost of doing those things is not the labor but rather the logistics of doing them, particularly in a health-code-compliant way. One-off temporary setups mean you're operating outside of your usual restaurant infrastructure, which introduces significant difficulties in supply management and storage.
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Jul 13, 2018 16:21
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I think it’s a false dichotomy, we act like automation is destroying jobs but I really believe it creates jobs. In my work I do a lot of automation, I’d say it’s like 90% of my job. Sure it means there are less of my role, but the work I do makes it possible for many more people to do things that used to take specialized skills to do. I truly believe automation just gets rid of the poo poo parts of working and let’s people do the novel and interesting stuff.
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Jul 13, 2018 16:21
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ElCondemn posted:I think it’s a false dichotomy, we act like automation is destroying jobs but I really believe it creates jobs. This might be true in a perfect world, but our world is far from perfect. Let’s look at the case of burger automation again. People aren’t choosing to do this job in lieu of more interesting or novel work, they’re doing it cause it’s all they’ve got. When you automate those jobs away, people don’t find more meaningful work without help. That means both competent non-scammy retraining programs and jobs programs that bring meaningful work to their areas. Without those two things, those people are not gonna find employment easily at all after their original jobs are automated away. Again, it’s not like they’re intentionally flipping burgers for a living, a lot of times it’s the only job in the area they can get. Unfortunately, none of that’s in place in the US. Our system gladly leaves workers to rot once a company has no more need of them. You only need to look at the rust belt for proof of that. So yes, under our current systems, automation destroys jobs.
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Jul 13, 2018 18:13
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Automation will definitely automate all the jobs away eventually, but it doesn't seem to be happening just yet. Unemployment is real low and all that. Of course it's still lovely for the people who get laid off, even if they're able to eventually find another job.
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Jul 13, 2018 18:34
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