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SKULL.GIF posted:My issue with Lakshmi (and Susano for that matter) is that the fight design has a bunch of good underlying structure and mechanics that would have made for a really fantastic fight... but then they dumbed it down massively and it's a trivial joke of a fight. And we'll probably never see an Ultimate version of Lakshmi or Susano and even if we do it'll be inaccessible to most of the playerbase. The many, many, many player deaths I've seen spread out across all three of those primals would beg to differ.
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Jul 13, 2018 05:06
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ImpAtom posted:I am genuinely confused. Like... you do know that Extreme Primals exist, right? Yes, I'm talking about Lakshmi and Susano EX
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Jul 13, 2018 05:09
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I guess I should go into more detail. Because of how FF14 works and is designed, it's unavoidable that most raid content boils down to a specific sequence of "dance" instructions that you follow to the letter until you clear it. Some fights (Guardian, Kefka) mix it up by introducing randomness into how the mechanics are executed, but generally Savage content has a large enough variety of mechanics and a high enough execution requirement that the fights are interesting even when you're doing the same things over and over again. Lakshmi and Susano EX have markedly fewer mechanics, and these mechanics also expect less out of the players, so they pale in comparison to Savage content or a fight like Tsukuyomi. I think this is particularly unfortunate because in Lakshmi's case, for example, the Vril mechanic could have made for a really interesting balancing dynamic for a "Do I want to use this or save this for later?" decision that you quickly calculate throughout the fight based on what cooldowns you have, what mechanics you're about to eat, and your healers' resources. Instead, the Vril mechanic boils down to "Use Vril for this one explicit mechanic. You will always have Vril available for this mechanic, and there's no reason at all to use Vril for anything else ever." Similarly, Susano is ostensibly a demanding positioning-heavy fight, but it never actually pushes the players on that front outside the combination of double knockback and Thundercloud targeting, which can almost always be solved with {Sprint} even if caught off guard. Even if it isn't it's not terribly difficult to adjust to the odd positioning required to not get turned into a smear by the two Thundercloud beams. This is a disappointment, because the bones are all there to design a chaotic fight where players have to constantly shift and tweak positioning to lay down safe zones for Thunderclouds and whirlpools, all while hopping over the center void zone to avoid being paralyzed and nuked. When I bemoan these fights, I'm specifically mildly upset that the mechanics that had really cool potential ended up being largely wasted onto trivial decisions. I don't really care that they still end up frequently killing the type of player who struggle with 4-man dungeon bosses.
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Jul 13, 2018 05:22
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I mean, they do reuse the mechanics a lot in this game as well. Usually the 24-mans and EX primals will show off a mechanic and then they expand on it in either a later, harder EX primal or in the actual Savage/Ultimate raids.
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Jul 13, 2018 05:37
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Karasu Tengu posted:I mean, they do reuse the mechanics a lot in this game as well. Usually the 24-mans and EX primals will show off a mechanic and then they expand on it in either a later, harder EX primal or in the actual Savage/Ultimate raids. Yes, but it rarely if ever delves into the depth where it becomes dynamic and requires contextual decisionmaking instead of "I did exactly what the plan said to do there". I think the EX primals are a great area to push dynamic difficulty, considering the fewer mechanics in comparison to Savage fights. This is why I mentioned Vril for Lakshmi, and why Byakko was particularly disappointing because the dynamic difficulty there was a joke to actually clear and actually felt much more like filler than dynamic difficulty. edit: I play exclusively tank/dps, so maybe the fights become more interesting if you're a healer.
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Jul 13, 2018 05:44
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Oh, I don't think they've ever done anything that's more dynamic than doing one of two mechanics in a random order. They really like their ordered and structured fights, and I don't really see it as a problem with this game.
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Jul 13, 2018 06:37
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SKULL.GIF posted:I guess I should go into more detail. I really don't see how Tsukuyomi is any different than Susano. If anything I think it's even more rote. The only randomness really comes from the stacking/splitting mechanic and the Bright/Dark Blade mechanic, both of which are incredibly simple. Everything else is basically autopilot. I see more people screw up Susano than I do Tsuku because thunderclouds break people's brains a lot worse than "stack up/split up" or "Go B/D" Like I love the design of Tsukuyomi's fight but I cleared it effortlessly the first party I got into without even watching a video. The only sticking point is meteors and there are such blatant and obvious places to put the meteors that it's meaningless unless you've got someone who would screw up just as bad on Byakko or Susano. I know people who've cleared Tsuku easily but still can't beat Byakko. (Mostly by sucking at dodging but part of why Tsuku is low-stress is that it's a very dodge-light fight compared to the people who run face-first into Tigerdad's balls.) I will say that I found Shinryu EX to be the most fun primal fight so far (maybe the most fun in the game) so maybe that impacts things but I genuinely think Tsukuyomi is a really simple fight to clear. I do agree that Lakshmi Ex sucks pretty bad though. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 07:01 on Jul 13, 2018 |
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Jul 13, 2018 06:55
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Jul 13, 2018 08:10
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hell loving yes just had an AST never use a single card ability in Bardam's who just let the tank die like 6 times. Best part is they had one of those really funny and not at all obnoxious res chat macros that only gets better seeing for the 3rd time in 2 minutes. thank god Yol is piss easy even when 2 party members have brink of death
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Jul 13, 2018 10:58
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So uh, I just really like DPS classes and jobs and I love maximizing my DPS as much as possible. As of right now, I'm currently maining a RDM at ilvl 361 and I absolutely love that job, more for the fact that it is not as latency intensive as other jobs (being someone from EU playing on a NA) server. What other DPS jobs are latency friendly? I was having fun leveling MCH to 40, but I keep being told that it is one of the most intense classes at max levels as one will have to maximize dps within the wildfire  I also already have BLM, DRG and SAM at 70, and out of these I guess I enjoy SAM the most.
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Jul 13, 2018 11:17
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I don't mind the primal ex fights being easier then savage as they lack a lockout and needing 10 kills to ensure 1 weapon is... just annoying enough. Royal Menagerie on either difficulty is loving wild by comparison to the other primals in stormblood so far. Still, I'm a shill for multiple difficulties. If it wouldn't drain too many resources, "Savage" mode for primal fights that rewards 10 tokens per clear would be nice. Would make dog farming easier too! 
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Jul 13, 2018 12:06
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I just did what I think is the second to last MSQ in ARR before I start on the patch questlines. I did an 8 man raid sort of thing where we beat up the woman in the white armor, and got 300 poetic allagan somethings. Should I save these to use later on, or just buy the level 50 stuff I see on the vendors? it's way better than the stuff I'm wearing now, but I don't wanna waste them on gear I'll replace as I level if the poetic thingys have use later on
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Jul 13, 2018 12:09
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Bardeh posted:I just did what I think is the second to last MSQ in ARR before I start on the patch questlines. I did an 8 man raid sort of thing where we beat up the woman in the white armor, and got 300 poetic allagan somethings. Should I save these to use later on, or just buy the level 50 stuff I see on the vendors? it's way better than the stuff I'm wearing now, but I don't wanna waste them on gear I'll replace as I level if the poetic thingys have use later on Ironworks Gear will last you until halfway through Heavensward so getting a full set of Ironworks should be your priority ASAP. By the time you get to the point where you can buy Shire gear you'll have probably made back what you spent.
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Jul 13, 2018 12:42
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Monathin posted:Ironworks Gear will last you until halfway through Heavensward so getting a full set of Ironworks should be your priority ASAP. By the time you get to the point where you can buy Shire gear you'll have probably made back what you spent. Cool, I've bought the headpiece and will get the rest when I work out how to get more poetic things. I don't see any weapons on the vendors for them though, how do I go about getting a good new weapon?
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Jul 13, 2018 13:16
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Bardeh posted:Cool, I've bought the headpiece and will get the rest when I work out how to get more poetic things. I don't see any weapons on the vendors for them though, how do I go about getting a good new weapon? At the same vendor you should be able to exchange Poetics for something called "Rowena's Token (Poetics)". It might be in the Other tab where you purchase Poetics gear. The vendor next to that one should have a tab for Ironworks Gear that lets you buy an Ironworks weapon with 10 of those tokens + some amount of Poetics, if I remember correctly. In terms of getting geared, your highest to lowest priority is typically (and someone can correct me on this if I get them out of order) - Weapon - Chest - Legs - Head - Gloves/Boots - Belt - "Right-Side" Gear (Earrings, Bracelet, Necklace, Rings). The best way to gain both levels AND poetics at your level is doing the MSQ Roulette, which'll throw you into the dungeon you just did or the next one. You should be able to unlock the 50/60 Roulette soon as well.
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Jul 13, 2018 13:23
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Stalins Moustache posted:So uh, I just really like DPS classes and jobs and I love maximizing my DPS as much as possible. As of right now, I'm currently maining a RDM at ilvl 361 and I absolutely love that job, more for the fact that it is not as latency intensive as other jobs (being someone from EU playing on a NA) server. What other DPS jobs are latency friendly? I was having fun leveling MCH to 40, but I keep being told that it is one of the most intense classes at max levels as one will have to maximize dps within the wildfire RDM is probably it tbh. I play MCH on EU servers from Asia and it sucks 
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Jul 13, 2018 13:29
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SKULL.GIF posted:
You are a healer. Stop wasting your time on dps and tank roles, and you will be much more satisfied with your games. This is not a joke post, I wish someone had told me the same. Could have saved me years of dissatisfaction in multiple MMOs. Your criticisms are valid but they're going to apply to basically any piece of scripted content. It's almost impossible for SE to design something that's the same every time, but still creates that feeling you're craving of dynamically shifting priorities and tough calls. Especially on the second, third, fourth clear of a piece of content. But if you're healing, the humans next to you will create that literally every time. Unsinkabear fucked around with this message at 14:30 on Jul 13, 2018 |
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Jul 13, 2018 13:55
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Karasu Tengu posted:Oh, I don't think they've ever done anything that's more dynamic than doing one of two mechanics in a random order. They really like their ordered and structured fights, and I don't really see it as a problem with this game. The most dynamic mechanic in the game is o4s Black Hole phase and that seems to be universally hated even by people who like challenging content. Unless you count some Ultimate fight stuff where if you do things a little bit wrong the next part will happen weirdly but you try to power through it anyway.
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Jul 13, 2018 14:27
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Unsinkabear posted:But if you're healing, the humans next to you will create that literally every time. Ah the internal angst I get when a bunch of people gently caress up, and I know a raidwide is coming. Will succor provide enough healing + shield for us to survive the raidwide so I can indom after? Or do I just say gently caress it and indom now and suffer through a slow top up phase because outside of indom my aoe healing kinda blows. Byakko was rough because one misplaced levinbolt at the wrong time can be a raidwiper if I don’t have indom up. With ex primals and pubs you learn to get stingy with anything that has a cool down.
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Jul 13, 2018 14:52
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Rhymenoserous posted:Ah the internal angst I get when a bunch of people gently caress up, and I know a raidwide is coming. Will succor provide enough healing + shield for us to survive the raidwide so I can indom after? Or do I just say gently caress it and indom now and suffer through a slow top up phase because outside of indom my aoe healing kinda blows. Yup, you learn real fast which group members are worth a cooldown and which are unworthy. But based on that poster's comment of "I don't care if content is inaccessible for people who struggle with 4-mans" they already have the hate. He/she is ready. I'm maining WAR for now as I get caught up on the story and unlock the expansion content, but I don't imagine it will be long before I'm catching up a healing class. I can't wait to hate again.
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Jul 13, 2018 14:57
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SKULL.GIF posted:I guess I should go into more detail. I agree with pretty much everything you write here about Lakshmi and Susano but I think you are overlooking or ignoring one critical detail here - both of these fights were the very first pieces of endgame content added to Stormblood, and indeed were the only endgame in Stormblood for the first month of release. As such, you can make an argument that these two fights are tuned to be more simplistic because the player base approaching them on release would still be getting familiarized with new abilities and skill rotations which they would have only been using for days or weeks compared to the years of Heavensward gameplay. It's no surprise that Tsukuyomi, which is a fight that comes a full year later, is more complex and demanding of a player base who should be far more familiar with their own characters at this point. Compare and contrast Bismark/Ravana with later HW trials such as Thordan, Sophia, etc. and you will see the same disparity. It's one thing to approach content design from the micro perspective of 4/8/24 players fighting a boss in a hopefully entertaining way, but you can't dismiss the macro perspective of the entire game being a machine designed to keep player skill and player gear on a hopefully smooth upward progression. Susano and Lak were basically the first few easy steps up that incline.
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Jul 13, 2018 20:27
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Monathin posted:At the same vendor you should be able to exchange Poetics for something called "Rowena's Token (Poetics)". It might be in the Other tab where you purchase Poetics gear. The vendor next to that one should have a tab for Ironworks Gear that lets you buy an Ironworks weapon with 10 of those tokens + some amount of Poetics, if I remember correctly. I think chest and legs are tied, and head is tied with gloves/boots
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Jul 13, 2018 20:33
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the reason fights are on rails in this game is because everyone hates bullshit randomness, and learning how to be consistent with your cooldowns and coordinating with your other healer is 90% of savage healing, and you can't do that if the fight isn't on rails the only piece of content in this game where you have to heal against an adaptive, (semi)-sentient source of damage is pvp healing, and i seem to be the only person on the planet who enjoys that
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Jul 13, 2018 21:55
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also if you make all your 8-man raid content inaccessible to the kind of players who currently have trouble in 4/24-man content, pretty soon excalibur's raiding population will be three statics, all of which are made up entirely of people complaining about how burning crusade was better
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Jul 13, 2018 21:56
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actually cataclysm healing was the best and it's clear th
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Jul 13, 2018 23:03
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Reiterpallasch posted:the reason fights are on rails in this game is because everyone hates bullshit randomness, and learning how to be consistent with your cooldowns and coordinating with your other healer is 90% of savage healing, and you can't do that if the fight isn't on rails Fights are on rails in most good raid content regardless of the game anyway because randomness can't be tuned for poo poo. WoW has some really great raid encounters but they're also almost completely predictable, the ones that inject a ton of randomness tend to be the most loathed raid encounters. Like the only exception to this rule I can think of is Mimiron Hard Mode with the extinguisher bots being somewhat random.
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Jul 13, 2018 23:10
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cheetah7071 posted:I think chest and legs are tied, and head is tied with gloves/boots Belt should be a scrutinized along side right side as well. They provide the same amount of offensive stats, just with an added Vitality bump. If you don't need that and your belt itemization is garbage, you're better off picking up something more beneficial to your class as far as crit/det/dh/ss go. This does not apply to tanks as fending belts provide significantly more strength than fending accessories. Skaw fucked around with this message at 23:27 on Jul 13, 2018 |
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Jul 13, 2018 23:22
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Skaw posted:Belt should be a scrutinized along side right side as well. They provide the same amount of offensive stats, just with an added Vitality bump. If you don't need that and your belt itemization is garbage, you're better off picking up something more beneficial to your class as far as crit/det/dh/ss go. This does not apply to tanks as fending belts provide significantly more strength than fending accessories. Belts also provide defense so they definitely go above accessories for tanks, no questions asked. You can generally break down itemization into a '1-2-3 etc.' pyramid tier. 1 weapon, 2 chest/legs (no weapon damage) 3 head/gloves/feets (less stats than chest/legs) 4 belt (more stats than accessories, especially defense) 5 accessories (I prioritize rings here because I don't do savage so I always have a lesser-ilvl ring that I replace first.)
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Jul 14, 2018 00:04
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the namazu interstitials are Really Fukken Good
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Jul 14, 2018 00:19
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What do I get out of Hildibrand quests outside of that one trial? Done mostly ARR ones so far.
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Jul 14, 2018 11:39
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Schneider Heim posted:What do I get out of Hildibrand quests outside of that one trial? Done mostly ARR ones so far. Emotes, minions, Hildibrand's outfit, cameos from classic franchise characters, comedy. Also Godbert remembers you during events he shows up in. Think of it as a fun side story, that's what it is.
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Jul 14, 2018 12:10
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Schneider Heim posted:What do I get out of Hildibrand quests outside of that one trial? Done mostly ARR ones so far. There's two trials, not one, and some emotes/minions/achievements/titles, but honestly if you don't enjoy them for their own sake they're probably not worth doing. Check out the Postmoogle and Scholasticate quests and see if they're more your style.
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Jul 14, 2018 12:12
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Phone posted:the namazu interstitials are Really Fukken Good i was legit sad when i realized i had reached the last tier of rep because i wanted more namazu adventures
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Jul 14, 2018 12:14
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jalapeno_dude posted:There's two trials, not one, and some emotes/minions/achievements/titles, but honestly if you don't enjoy them for their own sake they're probably not worth doing. Check out the Postmoogle and Scholasticate quests and see if they're more your style. Three trials.
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Jul 14, 2018 12:25
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 Finally got most of my fancy cross-crafter skills (and the oddly-revealing mid-50s crafter gear), and 50-70 on crafters is way less awful than 1-50. Now I just need to level MIN. And FSH.  Also, I'm trying to clean up my O8S runs. Do any goon summoners have suggestions on how to handle Kefaust? All of the invulnerability phases make it a headache to know when to go into DWT or Summon Bahamut.  dragonssssss
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Jul 14, 2018 16:24
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What's the best way to level gathering classes anyway if money isn't really a concern? Are there levekits for them?
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Jul 14, 2018 17:35
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ImpAtom posted:What's the best way to level gathering classes anyway if money isn't really a concern? Are there levekits for them? The leves are all self-contained and the best way to level, aside from namazu.
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Jul 14, 2018 17:58
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gc daily turn ins, leves, challenge log, pressing button to get thing after making sure you have rested xp and putting on a movie or tv show to zone out for a lil bit
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Jul 14, 2018 18:10
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If you have a bunch of podcasts you have a backlog on gathering is the best time to burn through them.
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Jul 14, 2018 20:57
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Solo Wing Pixy posted:
The general rule that worked well for me: you want to Addle every Light of Judgement. So you want to time your Bahamut phases to start during the LoJ castbar. In particular, that means at the beginning of the fight *don't* enter or exit the first DWT early as you would normally, but actually do two full cycles of 3 Festers and 6-7 Ruins in DWT - the timing means your second Deathflare will be a little before the first Graven, and then Aetherflow will come off cooldown as the teleportation circles are resolving. I usually hardcast Bio and Miasma, then summon Bahamut and Addle as the LoJ castbar is filling. In order to make sure Tri-Disaster is available for Bahamut you'll need to spend it very early in the second DWT - just make sure to do it when there are more than -40 seconds left on the Aetherflow cooldown. The rest of the fight is basically natural from there, with most of the optimization again being figuring out when to cast Tri-Disaster so that you have DoTs long enough for 3 Festers/have it for Bahamut. But the potency losses for missing a Wyrmwave or having to Painflare aren't huge so I don't think it's a huge deal. You can look up a fight timeline if you want to map things out.
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Jul 14, 2018 22:09
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