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Pollyanna posted:
wait, are you really trying to claim that AOC is racist now? based off this? "If you give me six lines written by the hand of the most honest of women, I will find something in them which will hang her." Condiv fucked around with this message at 17:51 on Jul 14, 2018 |
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Jul 14, 2018 17:48
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Her post was pretty dumb, though only a problem if it results in being overly friends to Republican lawmakers as long as they use the right tone (and nothing outside of the norm for Democrats, sadly).
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Jul 14, 2018 18:20
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Ytlaya posted:Her post was pretty dumb, though only a problem if it results in being overly friends to Republican lawmakers as long as they use the right tone (and nothing outside of the norm for Democrats, sadly). dumb yeah, but not a milkshake duck (as in terrible or racist)
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Jul 14, 2018 18:30
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Condiv posted:dumb yeah, but not a milkshake duck (as in terrible or racist) I don't think milkshake duck is used that specifically anymore. I see people on here use it to describe a moment in which someone they like or admire reveals their fallibility in an embarrassing way. Her statement is pretty drat embarrassing but she's campaigning for the general now and she's going to need dipshit boomer liberals to vote for her so I get it.
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Jul 14, 2018 19:08
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There's nothing dumb or embarrassing about it and Pollyanna is a moron.
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Jul 14, 2018 19:29
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It’s like, the blandest compliment she could’ve given that person. “Talking to you was not unpleasant and you appear to have critical thinking skills.” Granted, that person is conservative apparently so they probably are actually a moron but “not being publicly rude” isn’t exactly “pull support and disavow” territory.
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Jul 14, 2018 20:26
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Nah, it was a very dumb thing to say. Praising someone for being like William F. Buckley is a bad look. It's some real  poo poo in an age where concern for decorum is the last thing anyone needs.It's a minor flaw overall, mind, given all the other positives AOC has going for her.
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Jul 14, 2018 20:28
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Matt Zerella posted:There's nothing dumb or embarrassing about it and Pollyanna is a moron. No as has been pointed out William Buckley is a piece of poo poo and comparing someone to him favorably is stupid and pointless. There's enough centrists humanizing these loving ghouls, we don't need actual leftists doing it too.
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Jul 14, 2018 20:42
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Falstaff posted:Nah, it was a very dumb thing to say. Praising someone for being like William F. Buckley is a bad look. It's some real She wasn't praising Buckley. She was praising the host who followed in the vein of Buckley's style of debate where the discussion doesn't devolve into a shouting match (unless you're Gore Vidal) like it does on cable news. It's neither a flaw or stupid to want to have a real debate on issues. Not meet in the middle, it's not decorum at all. Buckley was a monster but holy poo poo if you go through and watch some of his firing line debates where he went toe to to with Ali and Chomsky, it's great to watch. Go watch Best of Enemies about the Buckley Vidal debates. It's good.
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Jul 14, 2018 20:46
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DrNutt posted:No as has been pointed out William Buckley is a piece of poo poo and comparing someone to him favorably is stupid and pointless. There's enough centrists humanizing these loving ghouls, we don't need actual leftists doing it too. You're missing the point because you saw Buckley.
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Jul 14, 2018 20:47
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Matt Zerella posted:You're missing the point because you saw Buckley. Nah I saw "legacy of rigorous examination of political thought" which is complete horseshit. Assholes like Buckley and his ilk started from racism and worked their way backwards to justify it with rules lawyering, just like Scalia worked backward from his ideological endpoint to justify his poo poo opinions. These people don't deserve to be taken seriously.
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Jul 14, 2018 20:58
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DrNutt posted:Nah I saw "legacy of rigorous examination of political thought" which is complete horseshit. Assholes like Buckley and his ilk started from racism and worked their way backwards to justify it with rules lawyering, just like Scalia worked backward from his ideological endpoint to justify his poo poo opinions. These people don't deserve to be taken seriously. So I guess Mohammed Ali and Noam Chomsky are decorous idiots for repeatedly making him look like a fool on TV?
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Jul 14, 2018 21:00
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Matt Zerella posted:So I guess Mohammed Ali and Noam Chomsky are decorous idiots for repeatedly making him look like a fool on TV? I don't know, did they do an interview afterward where they praised him for being such a model of conservative discourse?
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Jul 14, 2018 21:08
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DrNutt posted:I don't know, did they do an interview afterward where they praised him for being such a model of conservative discourse? Good lord.
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Jul 14, 2018 21:09
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Matt Zerella posted:Good lord. I guess not.
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Jul 14, 2018 21:13
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DrNutt posted:I guess not. Go read the first tweet and show me where it says "conservative discourse". Hence the "good lord".
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Jul 14, 2018 21:16
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I wash my hands of ocasio. Is nothing sacred and pure in this hellworld
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Jul 14, 2018 21:23
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Calibanibal posted:I wash my hands of ocasio. Is nothing sacred and pure in this hellworld "Buckley" I murmur to myself as I miss my turn on the highway
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Jul 14, 2018 21:24
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DrNutt posted:Nah I saw "legacy of rigorous examination of political thought" which is complete horseshit. Assholes like Buckley and his ilk started from racism and worked their way backwards to justify it with rules lawyering, just like Scalia worked backward from his ideological endpoint to justify his poo poo opinions. These people don't deserve to be taken seriously. There's absolutely nothing that says that rigorous examination of political thought has to result in good opinions.
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Jul 14, 2018 21:25
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Matt Zerella posted:Go read the first tweet and show me where it says "conservative discourse". Hence the "good lord". Oh I'm sorry, "model of political discourse."
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Jul 14, 2018 21:27
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DrNutt posted:Oh I'm sorry, "model of political discourse." Can you stop moving the goalposts when you score an own goal.
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Jul 14, 2018 21:33
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Matt Zerella posted:Can you stop moving the goalposts when you score an own goal. That was the direct quote after you complained that my paraphrasing was innacurate or misrepresenting her statement somehow.
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Jul 14, 2018 21:38
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The libs will always be owned.
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Jul 15, 2018 06:56
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Nonsense posted:The libs will always be owned. Shutcher mouth lib
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Jul 15, 2018 06:57
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Who gives a gently caress? Policy is the only thing that matters. The reason why decorum matters is when it impedes policy. If someone is being nice to assholes on twitter in a way that has no impact on policy, it shouldn't warrant any sort of conversation.
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Jul 15, 2018 07:22
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twodot posted:Who gives a gently caress? Policy is the only thing that matters. The reason why decorum matters is when it impedes policy. If someone is being nice to assholes on twitter in a way that has no impact on policy, it shouldn't warrant any sort of conversation. While this particular incident is trivial and should be ignored, the overall thrust of your post here is entirely mistaken and I want to take pointed issue with it. Policy is just not the only thing that matters, and policy will never be the only thing that matters. Policy will never even be the most important thing, let alone the only important thing. Do you know why that is? Because to the average human being policy will never be the most important thing. And that's why it will never be the most important thing. And you will never create any sizable population of human beings for whom policy is the most important thing. It's just not how a huge portion of the species operates. For the entire concept of democracy to have any meaning whatsoever you're going to have to study the average human being and understand him on his own terms. What you are doing is applying your own internal standards to the population at large. For you policy is the most important thing, and in a certain abstract pragmatic sense it is. But In the flesh and blood world made up of flawed and irrational human beings policy will never be the most important thing because of the amount of effort involved in accurately conceptualising such an abstraction. The average human being is evaluating their leadership figures not on policy, but on perceptions of authenticity that are revealed in public moments that happen to gain a bit of attention. I'm not saying that this is the way things ought to be, I'm saying that this is probably the way things are going to be forever. We may well live in in the age of mass communications and social media, but that has no impact whatsoever on certain fundamental aspects of human behavior. Policy will never be the only or most important thing because most human beings will never think in those terms. Prester Jane fucked around with this message at 07:34 on Jul 15, 2018 |
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Jul 15, 2018 07:31
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I do want to say though the fact that's so much of leftist leadership is essentially young people taking a heavy burden upon themselves concerns me greatly. And it has nothing to do with their ideology or their character and everything to do with the fact experience means a great deal, and inexperience is easily exploited by cynical bad-faith operators. I admire both Occasio-Cortez and David Hogg immensely and have tremendous hopes for what they are doing (and I expect I understand better than most why so much leftist leadership is coming from the millennial generation at present)- but I would be remiss not to state that it is very difficult to be a leader whilst also trying to sort yourself out.
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Jul 15, 2018 07:52
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Prester Jane posted:While this particular incident is trivial and should be ignored, the overall thrust of your post here is entirely mistaken and I want to take pointed issue with it. Policy is just not the only thing that matters, and policy will never be the only thing that matters. Policy will never even be the most important thing, let alone the only important thing. Do you know why that is? This is some  poo poo right here, because you're out of touch as all gently caress and are literally doing what you accuse others of in this very post. Of course people care a great deal about policy because it affects their material interests. Go ask somebody who's ill and can't afford medical insurance or somebody who's poor and can't put food on their family's table about whether they care about policies that would help them or not. The very reason why people care about authenticity in a candidate mostly is because they believe they need the policies that said authentic candidate is advocating very badly.
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Jul 15, 2018 08:31
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Cerebral Bore posted:This is some I'm trying to argue that the majority of people don't make that connection. And there are plenty of people who are in need who will still happily advocate/vote against their rational policy interests.
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Jul 15, 2018 08:38
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Prester Jane posted:I'm trying to argue that the majority of people don't make that connection. And there are plenty of people who are in need who will still happily advocate/vote against their rational policy interests. edit: I suppose I should reiterate, if not calling people shitheads actually impedes policy (through idiot voters voting for bad policy), then that's obviously a thing to care about, but I think the evidence that a politician in waiting being nice on twitter actually impedes real policy is lacking. twodot fucked around with this message at 09:13 on Jul 15, 2018 |
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Jul 15, 2018 09:05
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twodot posted:Do you think the people who can't connect actual policy to their material interests also read twitter posts and think "A leftist was slightly nice to a shithead, therefore I must vote for the shithead"? I already specified that this particular incident that spawned this conversation was trivial and should be ignored. However, engaging in good faith with cynical bad-faith operators will get you exploited every single time. Even if the bad faith operator is polite to your face, you are still being exploited. You are still being used solely to advance their agenda, and if they are being polite to you at the time it's because doing so also advances their agenda. Additionally, people who can't connect actual policy to their material interest will absolutely take a shallow surface-reading of something/someone and base their judgment on it. That happens all the time. Perhaps not quite to the degree of the hyperbole in the quoted post- it's nonetheless a very real phenomenon. Finally, to answer the question at the end of the one if the shithead happens to either hate the correct group of people or support the correct pet cause then significant portion of the population will vote for a corrupt shithead- if they believe that said shithead is a genuine human being operating in good faith. So yes, legitimizing a cynical operator can indeed sway support to their side. Because the cynical operator is always going to be trying to find as many little pet causes that will make people latch on to them and support them above all other rational concerns. As a result a good-faith operator will always be at an inherent disadvantage whatever they treat a day bad faith operator in further in the illusion of good faith. Prester Jane fucked around with this message at 09:19 on Jul 15, 2018 |
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Jul 15, 2018 09:12
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Prester Jane posted:I already specified that this particular incident that spawned this conversation was trivial and should be ignored. twodot fucked around with this message at 09:18 on Jul 15, 2018 |
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Jul 15, 2018 09:15
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twodot posted:Then who the gently caress cares? "You've correctly analyzed that no one should care about this situation, but I'd like to posit counter-factuals where you're wrong" is total nonsense. I'm trying to address a larger trend, part of what I view as a larger issue within the modern left. I took the opportunity this incident created to comment upon said larger issue, even if this particular incident is fairly trivial. There's plenty of other examples that are not.
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Jul 15, 2018 09:21
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Prester Jane posted:I'm trying to address a larger trend, part of what I view as a larger issue within the modern left. I took the opportunity this incident created to comment upon said larger issue, even if this particular incident is fairly trivial. There's plenty of other examples that are not.
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Jul 15, 2018 09:26
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Prester Jane posted:I'm trying to argue that the majority of people don't make that connection. And there are plenty of people who are in need who will still happily advocate/vote against their rational policy interests. You're not trying to argue that, you're claiming that with literally zero evidence backing you up.
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Jul 15, 2018 09:40
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Cerebral Bore posted:You're not trying to argue that, you're claiming that with literally zero evidence backing you up. Kansas, bitch
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Jul 15, 2018 16:32
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selec posted:Kansas, bitch I mean any Republican voter that isn't also a massive corporation is voting against their own interests.
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Jul 15, 2018 16:48
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Good to see that AOC has already been smoothbrained by saying anything positive about William F. "Now listen, you queer, stop calling me a crypto-Nazi, or I'll nail you in the goddamn face and you'll stay plastered" Buckley, Jr.
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Jul 15, 2018 17:23
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Horseshoe theory posted:Good to see that AOC has already been smoothbrained by saying anything positive about William F. "Now listen, you queer, stop calling me a crypto-Nazi, or I'll nail you in the goddamn face and you'll stay plastered" Buckley, Jr. If you don't enjoy the look on Gore Vidal's face after he said that then maybe the smoothbrain is you.
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Jul 15, 2018 17:25
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selec posted:Kansas, bitch Didn't know the majority if the US population lives in Kansas.
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Jul 15, 2018 17:31
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