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Shear Modulus posted:well many of the middle eastern countries that regressed from functioning civil societies into right-wing autocracies over that time period like iran and egypt and israel were helped down that road by america Calling them "functioning civil societies" is a huge loving stretch. Secular modernist, maybe. Truga posted:on the left there's no such counterweight, because fash don't seem scary on a personal level unless you're one of the minorities they're currently targeting There's no counterweight on "the left" because of an entire lifetime of establishment propaganda that validated conservatism as a respectable opposition that's worth compromising with - and libs are still chasing after the reasonable conservative moderates thinking it's going to make them a permanent majority party. Fear isn't a motivating factor for people that don't vote because in the grand scheme of national politics, whichever party is in power makes no difference to their day to day lives. And the changes that do come are unnecessarily burdensome because they're neutered out the gate to appease an opposition that is completely against positive rights under any circumstance.
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Jul 16, 2018 09:20
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if fear is no factor, then why are the righties constantly voting for people with isolationist/racist/straight agenda?quote:A phobia is a type of anxiety disorder, defined by a persistent and excessive fear of an object or situation. 
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Jul 16, 2018 10:07
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Truga posted:if fear is no factor, then why are the righties constantly voting for people with isolationist/racist/straight agenda? because the only economic system they know is capitalism, and if capitalism failed them, its only because of <minority> being <stereotype> and stealing our jobs
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Jul 16, 2018 10:17
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Truga posted:if fear is no factor, then why are the righties constantly voting for people with isolationist/racist/straight agenda? Pener Kropoopkin posted:Fear isn't a motivating factor for people that don't vote
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Jul 16, 2018 10:59
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sorry, i'm dumb and can't read today
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Jul 16, 2018 13:00
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There are plenty of issues that could be rallying cries for the left, it's just that they're bad in the short term for the finance and donor class so the current Dems don't embrace them Also, concentration camps for toddlers seems to be getting a lot of people out and active and that's with the establishment barely even hammering away on it
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Jul 16, 2018 14:13
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The rallying cry for the left should be "Yes we will." Yes we will have universal healthcare. Yes we will close Guantanamo. Yes we will abolish ICE. Yes we will raise the minimum wage. Yes we will end the War on Terror. No compromise, and no negotiation. This will come to pass when the radical left is in power, because reactionary politics will be destroyed. Not in a yaas queen epic clapback tweet destroyed, but in a constitutionally-revisionist state legislative supermajority destroyed.
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Jul 16, 2018 15:08
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:The rallying cry for the left should be "Yes we will." Yes we will have universal healthcare. Yes we will close Guantanamo. Yes we will abolish ICE. Yes we will raise the minimum wage. Yes we will end the War on Terror. I mean that sounds nice, but "independent voter" "small business owners" need to have guillotines built and ready to go in their town to remind them of the alternative
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Jul 16, 2018 15:15
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ikanreed posted:I mean that sounds nice, but "independent voter" "small business owners" need to have guillotines built and ready to go in their town to remind them of the alternative What's the point of building them if you're not going to use them? If people are erecting guillotines then there's no point stopping at the constitution.
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Jul 16, 2018 15:17
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:What's the point of building them if you're not going to use them? If people are erecting guillotines then there's no point stopping at the constitution. Sometimes you hold the rolled up newspaper in front of the naughty puppy and they suddenly get better. Sometimes you gotta bop them in the nose.
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Jul 16, 2018 15:23
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So farm income is down 50% in the last 5 years, BEFORE the big tarrifs even are in place. lol looking forward to the "Tractor parade in DC" that they promise. http://www.kcrg.com/content/news/US-trade-immigration-and-biofuel-policies-hit-farmers-hard-488230551.html
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Jul 16, 2018 15:32
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:What's the point of building them if you're not going to use them? If people are erecting guillotines then there's no point stopping at the constitution. an unused guillotine is a useless guillotine
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Jul 16, 2018 15:35
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Burt Sexual posted:So farm income is down 50% in the last 5 years, BEFORE the big tarrifs even are in place. lol looking forward to the "Tractor parade in DC" that they promise. they won't be able to afford the gas lol
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Jul 16, 2018 15:38
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quote:"Some were given the go-ahead for another year, but boy, you start looking at these lower prices and the extra costs that are out there now it gets tough. It just doesn't work," he said. ah, more of that homespun wisdom if only they'd come up with it in 2016
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Jul 16, 2018 15:54
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Krankenstyle posted:they won't be able to afford the gas lol tractors repossessed, why not done?
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Jul 16, 2018 15:58
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ikanreed posted:I mean that sounds nice, but "independent voter" "small business owners" need to have guillotines built and ready to go in their town to remind them of the alternative this is what guillotine rhetoric becoming mainstream and generally agreed upon is for they're already noticing, at a conference of Big Business Types that my bosses were at last week, a big insurance CIO was talking nervously about how UBI is going to be necessary sooner rather than later, because AI and robotics seem to be creating a new French Revolution attitude among the people tremendously hosed over by AI and robotics
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Jul 16, 2018 15:58
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Burt Sexual posted:So farm income is down 50% in the last 5 years, BEFORE the big tarrifs even are in place. lol looking forward to the "Tractor parade in DC" that they promise. When it does happen it'll be a tractor parade of Monsanto serfs, followed up by the Tyson's chicken peons.
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Jul 16, 2018 16:00
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Agriculture is just completely unworkable as a for-profit industry, and should be the first thing socialized before healthcare. The only alternative is that there's going to be enough land consolidation to establish real agricultural monopolies, and they will return profitability by god.
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Jul 16, 2018 16:03
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There's a ton of evidence that people don't vote for fear reasons, they vote to feel powerful and like they will be part of something. People vote to be on the winning side, not to keep out the bad guys. Obviously, Obama's Hope and Change pitch did that, bringing out the left and liberals in droves, but so did Trump's MAGA. Were people afraid of immigrants and all the rest of it? Sure! But pretty much all of the Republican candidates were running on ugly platforms. Trump's power move was to make all that fun. He was a showman who knew how to rile up a crowd, he literally promised 'winning'. He was (compared to the other guys on stage) quick on his feet and you never knew what he was gonna say and you were always in for a show. And we was gonna stick it to the people you feared. He was gonna get 'em. Like donating money to help Kylie Jenner be the youngest billionaire. It's fun to be part of something.
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Jul 16, 2018 16:10
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It's also important to remember that for the most part American farmers are a class of middle/upper-middle white collar professionals, not dumb salt of the Earth guys barely making ends meet; they're also not a significant chunk of the labor market Their profits being down 50% doesn't mean anybody's starving, it means they're going to have to shutter the farm in a few years and become cashiers or cam girls like everyone else IDK if anyone ITT hasn't already internalized that but it's important bc there's so much dumb rhetoric and cultural baggage about farmers on both the right and left
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Jul 16, 2018 16:10
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:Calling them "functioning civil societies" is a huge loving stretch. Secular modernist, maybe. Yeah guys like Nasser always self identified as nationalists and socialists, and often sounded a lot like fascists. They were never really secular though in the way the US is, in that they always sought to explicitly enmesh Islam and the state.
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Jul 16, 2018 16:11
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Squalid posted:Yeah guys like Nasser always self identified as nationalists and socialists, and often sounded a lot like fascists. They were never really secular though in the way the US is, in that they always sought to explicitly enmesh Islam and the state. Nasser was explicitly secularist. So were the Ba'ath parties and Kemalists. The point about them not being functional civil socieities, is that civil rights were practically non-existent. Nasser murdered the communists, the Tudeh tortured and murdered Iranians, and Kemalists repressed Islamism in Turkey by regularly torturing and murdering anybody who dissented under their military coups.
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Jul 16, 2018 16:14
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doingitwrong posted:There's a ton of evidence that people don't vote for fear reasons, they vote to feel powerful and like they will be part of something. People vote to be on the winning side, not to keep out the bad guys. I'm 90% convinced that most of the MAGA chuds will vote just as enthusiastically for the destruction of the indolent billionaire class and seizing of their fortunes for the public good, the movement just needs a firebrand beligerrent jackass to lead it who isn't the sort of bloodless technocrat that the Dem party has been cultivating for decades. These same chuds hand waving toddler concentration camps were not too long ago dragging mine bosses out of their mansions and tarring and feathering them at the end of the day, people are unhappy as gently caress and just want someone to punish in the hopes that it goes away. I don't think Trump announcing that the poverty crisis in the US is solved is gonna go over well and I expect it got almost no coverage on the right for that reason
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Jul 16, 2018 16:18
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No. 1 Apartheid Fan posted:It's also important to remember that for the most part American farmers are a class of middle/upper-middle white collar professionals, not dumb salt of the Earth guys barely making ends meet; they're also not a significant chunk of the labor market Eh, 10% are non owner farm corporations? Interesting stats at least in that article. E link would help https://www.desmoinesregister.com/s...come/742159002/
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Jul 16, 2018 16:21
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Epic High Five posted:I'm 90% convinced that most of the MAGA chuds will vote just as enthusiastically for the destruction of the indolent billionaire class and seizing of their fortunes for the public good, the movement just needs a firebrand beligerrent jackass to lead it who isn't the sort of bloodless technocrat that the Dem party has been cultivating for decades. These same chuds hand waving toddler concentration camps were not too long ago dragging mine bosses out of their mansions and tarring and feathering them MAGA chuds are too narratively brain poisoned to turn against their god king. It's the people who don't vote that actually matter, because they're half of all registered voters.
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Jul 16, 2018 16:24
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Hahaha Trumps speech is written in HUGE print. You can read it when he turns the page.
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Jul 16, 2018 16:29
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Epic High Five posted:I'm 90% convinced that most of the MAGA chuds will vote just as enthusiastically for the destruction of the indolent billionaire class and seizing of their fortunes for the public good, the movement just needs a firebrand beligerrent jackass to lead it who isn't the sort of bloodless technocrat that the Dem party has been cultivating for decades. These same chuds hand waving toddler concentration camps were not too long ago dragging mine bosses out of their mansions and tarring and feathering them The left needs another Huey P. Long.
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Jul 16, 2018 16:31
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:Nasser was explicitly secularist. So were the Ba'ath parties and Kemalists. The point about them not being functional civil socieities, is that civil rights were practically non-existent. Nasser murdered the communists, the Tudeh tortured and murdered Iranians, and Kemalists repressed Islamism in Turkey by regularly torturing and murdering anybody who dissented under their military coups. Yeah but Nasser always sought, or perhaps couldn’t avoid, to keep the state actively involved in religious affairs. Nasser for example nationalized the endowments of Mosques and religious schools and assumed almost all authority to appoint or remove Imams and religious scholars. It’s very different take on secularism than in the United States. And compared to places like Syria or Iraq Egypt had a much more functional and independent civil societies. Syria could barely make it a year without another coup before the Assad’s came to power.
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Jul 16, 2018 16:35
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:MAGA chuds are too narratively brain poisoned to turn against their god king. It's the people who don't vote that actually matter, because they're half of all registered voters. Trump's already beyond reproach with them, but you can still grab some of his base (not needed, nor welcome imho tho) by picking other people exactly like Trump who are not Trump to mock and revile, like the Kochs or Bloomberg There still isn't gonna be a wall in 2020 and 95% of the country's lives aren't going to be better than they were in 2016 so appeals to past performance isn't gonna sway people toward him if an actual alternative is being offered however I am also of the mindset that Trump and his core base need to be pushed out on ice floes and the only people the left needs to focus on are those that make up our own ACTUAL base, and not affluent suburban Republican """swing voters"""
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Jul 16, 2018 16:52
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too bad democrats despise the left
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Jul 16, 2018 17:08
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the best way to flip Trump voters is to treat them like a happy bonus rather than a core demographic. Sure it's good that my "make it legal to hunt and kill anyone with more than 100 mill in net worth" law got all the folks who voted Trump cause they liked him making GBS threads all over the other Republicans in the primary, but my main target are the disaffected youth who see a train headeding right at them and like being offered the chance to derail it
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Jul 16, 2018 17:09
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Hot take:. American Democrats are not left.
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Jul 16, 2018 17:30
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I'm sorry if I gave off the impression that the Dems are the left party in the US but it's pretty obvious they are not based on their emphatic resistance to everything I've outlined We have a center party and a fringe right party and none others, and the battle right now is to cut the rot out of the center party and shift it left before they sell us out to the Nazis before they themselves get gassed
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Jul 16, 2018 17:35
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Let's see how the midwest is being Made Great Again by the president they voted forquote:In Iowa, Mike Naig, the state’s Republican secretary of agriculture…. “Current commodity prices are not equaling the cost of production … There has been a 20 percent drop in prices.” In South Dakota, Kolberg-Pioneer, which manufactures equipment for making crushed stone and gravel, is contemplating its second price increase of the year to deal with higher steel prices thanks to Trump’s metals tariffs…. Meanwhile, the Sioux Falls Argus Leader’s Dana Ferguson and Jeremy Fugleberg report the trade fight has “already cost South Dakota farmers and ranchers hundreds of millions of dollars, experts said, as the value of their crops has dipped.”  Some other headlines quote:From WECT in North Carolina: “Trump’s trade war with China could affect local jobs” How are voters responding? quote:Doubts about the ongoing tariff battle and about the administration’s agenda on health care, spending and immigration have changed the terrain. Rather than back the president and Republicans, the Midwest has begun to flirt with candidates who would keep them in check. In Wisconsin, Michigan, Minnesota and Ohio, Democratic senators once thought to be endangered have rebounded and are in fairly safe positions. In House and gubernatorial races, Democrats have grown more competitive since the start of the year. Taken from: https://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2018/07/trumps-tariffs-and-high-prices-are-sinking-the-midwest/
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Jul 16, 2018 17:38
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"work across the aisle" lmao dems still doing same poo poo and expecting diff results
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Jul 16, 2018 18:08
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lmao @ the idea of republicans supporting any infrastructure bill that isn't selling the highway system to the Koch Bros
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Jul 17, 2018 08:10
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Epic High Five posted:I'm 90% convinced that most of the MAGA chuds will vote just as enthusiastically for the destruction of the indolent billionaire class and seizing of their fortunes for the public good, the movement just needs a firebrand beligerrent jackass to lead it who isn't the sort of bloodless technocrat that the Dem party has been cultivating for decades. These same chuds hand waving toddler concentration camps were not too long ago dragging mine bosses out of their mansions and tarring and feathering them The only way to win the chuds is to embrace racism because minorities and immigrants will always be there as easy targets for punishment. gently caress em, there is no cure for brain worms.
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Jul 17, 2018 09:29
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PostNouveau posted:The left needs another Huey P. Long. huey long was supposed to be bad and idk why he owns. or is this just american revisionism because he was left wing
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Jul 17, 2018 13:02
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lmbo https://twitter.com/ddale8/status/1019202432042184704
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Jul 17, 2018 14:06
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: 
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Jul 17, 2018 14:09
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