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Trump and Erdogan will get out of NATO, and then build a new alliance with Putin, Duterte, and Kim Jung-un.
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Jul 16, 2018 14:18
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Cat Mattress posted:Trump and Erdogan will get out of NATO, and then build a new alliance with Putin, Duterte, and Kim Jung-un. I mean, I legit wouldn’t rule this out, insane as it is.
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Jul 16, 2018 14:36
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Darth Walrus posted:I mean, I legit wouldn’t rule this out, insane as it is.
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Jul 16, 2018 14:40
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Do what things the right way? What is he referring to, becoming al Qaeda's air force? Purging the military?
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Jul 16, 2018 14:56
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Throatwarbler posted:Do what things the right way? What is he referring to, becoming al Qaeda's air force? Purging the military? Scapegoating an ethnic minority to secure power.
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Jul 16, 2018 14:59
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Throatwarbler posted:Do what things the right way? What is he referring to, becoming al Qaeda's air force? Purging the military? Locking up non-compliant journalists in jail for terrorism charges maybe. Prolly far more important given Trump's media hissy fits.
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Jul 16, 2018 19:25
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:Erdogan finally getting the fist bump he's been craving. Terrorist fist bump!
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Jul 16, 2018 19:38
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Throatwarbler posted:Do what things the right way? What is he referring to, becoming al Qaeda's air force? Purging the military? Destroying the press.
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Jul 16, 2018 22:36
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:Erdogan finally getting the fist bump he's been craving. Shame recognize shame.
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Jul 16, 2018 23:52
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shades of 2011 https://twitter.com/BabakTaghvaee/status/1018955492197126146 https://twitter.com/BaxtiyarGoran/status/1018825874081239040 HorrificExistence fucked around with this message at 04:58 on Jul 17, 2018 |
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Jul 17, 2018 04:55
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Rent-A-Cop posted:It would probably be more useful than NATO. Define ‘use’.
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Jul 17, 2018 05:09
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Darth Walrus posted:Define ‘use’.
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Jul 17, 2018 05:32
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https://twitter.com/Bilesa_Shaweys/status/1018985538878164993 still no mainstream coverage
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Jul 17, 2018 07:40
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The lack of media attention is loving disgraceful.
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Jul 17, 2018 15:46
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https://twitter.com/BaxtiyarGoran/status/1019185523548663809
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Jul 17, 2018 16:47
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Lol it only took iraq 15 years to start running down civilians with tanks again In other knews as predicted isis is trying to thwart the peacetalks the taliban have raised.
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Jul 17, 2018 17:16
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HorrificExistence posted:https://twitter.com/Bilesa_Shaweys/status/1018985538878164993 It doesn't look like anyone got hit there. The gunshots audible in the background I think are more worrying. Are any Iraqi politicians or parties being targeted? Abadi, or maybe Sadr? Or is this more at a local level? And how much of these problems are Iran's fault? I see at least some of the protestors are anti-Iran and against their militias as well. What sort of influence does Iran have here?
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Jul 17, 2018 17:37
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This is, so far, the least lovely summary of events I've read: http://www.middleeasteye.net/columns/whats-behind-iraqs-basra-protests-1898152657 Click through for a few embedded links I don't have the time to recreate in BBcode quote:Since then the discontent in Basra has been building up. Basra was one of the cities that took part in anti-government protests in the summer of 2015 over corruption in the government, unemployment, and lack of services, particularly salinity in the water, water shortages, and frequent power cuts. Those are the exact same demands articulated over the last week. A good old fashioned resource curse on the local level, with a mix of tribal politics and institutional graft, and Iranian energy concerns putting the screws to Basrans because they're short of capital now that sanctions are back in effect. Great. Good. Awesome. Cool.
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Jul 17, 2018 17:52
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Count Roland posted:Are any Iraqi politicians or parties being targeted? Abadi, or maybe Sadr? Or is this more at a local level? All of them, really. Dawa is bearing the brunt of it since they've run Iraq for the last 15 years, and people being fed up with them is the key reason voter turnout was so low and Sadr did so well among those who did show up in the last election. But nobody has really been exempt. A wide variety of political offices have been attacked since the protests broke out. PMU offices have been targeted as well. They don't seem to be rallying around anything that I've seen. Just against the Iraqi government as it exists and has existed for the last several years.
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Jul 17, 2018 18:19
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Man, if the Iraqi police showed a 1/10th of the heart defending against ISIS as they do shooting protestors the last few years would have been a lot more peaceful.
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Jul 18, 2018 00:06
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pro starcraft loser posted:Man, if the Iraqi police showed a 1/10th of the heart defending against ISIS as they do shooting protestors the last few years would have been a lot more peaceful. It is a lot easier to shoot at/over a bunch of unarmed people out to protest than it is to shoot at armed people who can shoot back, particularly the ones who set out to kill you. Look back at how brazenly the military and police were attacking civilians at the beginning of the Libyan and Syrian revolutions versus how they ended up cautiously fortifying themselves a few months later when shooting started going both ways. Also, the Iraqi army and police are in better shape due to the conflict with ISIS forcing some issues to be addressed. Warbadger fucked around with this message at 03:05 on Jul 18, 2018 |
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Jul 18, 2018 03:01
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Warbadger posted:It is a lot easier to shoot at/over a bunch of unarmed people out to protest than it is to shoot at armed people who can shoot back, particularly the ones who set out to kill you. Look back at how brazenly the military and police were attacking civilians at the beginning of the Libyan and Syrian revolutions versus how they ended up cautiously fortifying themselves a few months later when shooting started going both ways. Little more seasoned, and a little more violent and a lot more fearful of another national identity crisis the iraqi security forces will shoot anyone.
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Jul 18, 2018 03:35
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Idk if heart is the right word for it, but I certainly hope the Iraqi security forces don't use even 1/10th of the ferocity against the protesters that they ended up showing against ISIS.
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Jul 18, 2018 04:08
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I think I'm just letting my imagination run wild, but I feel nervous someone might try and use these protests as as pretext for a coup. The low participation rate in the election was a sign of weakened legitimacy for the government, now with the protests anyone ambitious enough can lean on the pretext of restoring order, or purging the corrupt parasites. There's so many different armed groups that could make a play too. Maybe someone worried they're about to get cut out of the patronage once the Sadrists are in charge? Probably they'll make concessions of some sort and it will all settle down. Probably. . .
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Jul 18, 2018 05:36
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Squalid posted:I think I'm just letting my imagination run wild, but I feel nervous someone might try and use these protests as as pretext for a coup. The low participation rate in the election was a sign of weakened legitimacy for the government, now with the protests anyone ambitious enough can lean on the pretext of restoring order, or purging the corrupt parasites. https://twitter.com/AlSuraEnglish/status/1019184937730076672 we'll see, they might have too many martyrs
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Jul 18, 2018 08:50
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Herstory Begins Now posted:I certainly hope the Iraqi security forces don't use even 1/10th of the ferocity against the protesters that they ended up showing against ISIS. too late
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Jul 18, 2018 15:10
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Squalid posted:I think I'm just letting my imagination run wild, but I feel nervous someone might try and use these protests as as pretext for a coup. The low participation rate in the election was a sign of weakened legitimacy for the government, now with the protests anyone ambitious enough can lean on the pretext of restoring order, or purging the corrupt parasites. I took it a bit further, and was wondering if the protests were being encouraged to make a coup easier. Yes the protestors have legitimate grievances, but the general lawlessness makes good cover for other actions, or could be justification for action against the ineffective government. Since the government itself is still being formed after the election, it would be particularly difficult to mount a coherent response to clever coup-plotters. Not like I have any evidence of this, but the dearth of reporting on the protests let's the mind run wild.
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Jul 18, 2018 15:19
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420 Gank Mid posted:too late They're like 100,000 dead people short. The battles for Raqqa and Mosul were unbelievably savage.
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Jul 18, 2018 15:44
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Herstory Begins Now posted:They're like 100,000 dead people short. The battles for Raqqa and Mosul were unbelievably savage. 'ferocity' in my mind is less about the body count and more about the enthusiasm and joie-de-vivre displayed by the murderers
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Jul 18, 2018 15:49
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Saladman posted:Let's say you live in California, and suddenly you had an influx of 50 million Alabamans and Mississippians flood into your state. You probably would stop giving a poo poo about terminology and a lot more of a poo poo about rising prices, lowered wages, difficulty of finding jobs, homes, and the eventual militias that the southerners would set up to harass you. Absurd Alhazred posted:Well, the OP seems to be comparing a flood of 25% of the population in refugees in a war-torn country to a trickle of less than 0.1% of the population. It's big in its own terms, but we're talking hundreds of thousands of people seeking refuge in a country with hundreds of millions of people. fishmech posted:Over the course of the late 1920s into the late 1930s and a bit earlier, nearly 3.5 million people from the area around and including Oklahoma fled to California and another few million to states around California. The population of California was only 3,426,861 at the 1920 census. Catching up with this thread but appreciated this bit of ownage. Nice job.
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Jul 18, 2018 16:57
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Some Iraqi activists are pushing for a nationwide protest campaign this Friday after prayers. We'll learn a lot about the scale and longevity of these protests then.
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Jul 18, 2018 18:26
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Count Roland posted:I took it a bit further, and was wondering if the protests were being encouraged to make a coup easier. Yes the protestors have legitimate grievances, but the general lawlessness makes good cover for other actions, or could be justification for action against the ineffective government. Since the government itself is still being formed after the election, it would be particularly difficult to mount a coherent response to clever coup-plotters. Yeah I'm no expert on the area but at first I was all like "drat this feels putschy to me" . The subsequent news does feel like a more naturalistic protest though, especially with all parties being targeted.
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Jul 18, 2018 23:13
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Volkerball posted:Some Iraqi activists are pushing for a nationwide protest campaign this Friday after prayers. We'll learn a lot about the scale and longevity of these protests then. Hey maybe they'll get some news coverage then.
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Jul 18, 2018 23:42
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pro starcraft loser posted:Hey maybe they'll get some news coverage then. 10 dead iraqis are worth .001 of an american
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Jul 19, 2018 00:54
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pro starcraft loser posted:Hey maybe they'll get some news coverage then. i have heard about the protests sporadically for the last few days on national news outlets, but no real details outside of "there's a lot of protestors and they want jobs and poo poo". which is kind of par for the course in terms of american reporting on protests in other countries sadly enough
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Jul 19, 2018 04:36
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HorrificExistence posted:10 dead iraqis are worth .001 of an american What is that American is Puerto Rican?
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Jul 19, 2018 09:59
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This has been covered for days on NPR, at least.
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Jul 19, 2018 19:02
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https://twitter.com/SulomeAnderson/status/1020028657153257472
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Jul 19, 2018 21:31
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Shageletic posted:Catching up with this thread but appreciated this bit of ownage. Nice job. You missed the first post, which was about Lebanese distinguishing between "uncontrolled immigrants" vs "refugee" as if the distinction matters in the slightest to someone actually living on the ground, and the last post, "there was all sorts of measures against the various migrants [the Oakies in California], including things like campaigns to keep the kids out of local schools and all that." I read some other papers about it, e.g. DOI 10.2307/25462394 on SciHub that go into more detail about the societal and economic issues the mass influx caused, but in any case it's not a great comparison since California had far, far more space to accommodate people than does Lebanon (good luck finding unused land in Lebanon in 2015). The primary point was that locals are always going to hate large influxes of refugees (as a % of people already living in the area) for real reasons, and not because they're frothing racists worried about Mexican rapists. To the locals already living in such a place, they don't care if it's going to work out socially and economically 15 years later—supposing it even does. They have to live their life when they're there and it doesn't really matter if there are more economic opportunities a generation later. In the short term a massive influx of people is going to increase rent prices, may increase the cost of food/other goods, and will put a strain on public resources like schools and hospitals, and this strain is going to disproportionately affect poorer locals. In Europe the fear of "large influxes" is bullshit, or in a few places like some of the Greek islands where it's not, it's due to political mismanagement, but in Lebanon it's a very real concern. PMC4948691 posted:The Syrian refugee influx in Lebanon has aggravated political, economic, and security challenges, impairing major drivers of economy, such as trade, banking, and tourism, and decreasing job opportunities as well as increasing the challenges of attaining the key Millennium Development Goals. Growth of the economy has tumbled with debt augmenting to 141% of growth domestic product (GDP) in 2013 and GDP growth decreasing from 10% in 2010 to 1% in 2014, and it is expected to increase just by 2% in 2015. Now, one in five Lebanese are unemployed with unemployment doubling to 34% and peaking at record rates as the labor force has increased by 50% since 2011, and one-third of young Lebanese laborers are unable to find work competing in a particularly intensified informal sector that contributes to more than 56% of total employment. It has become more difficult to even acquire jobs with low salaries, dramatically impacting labor market standards. These factors have exhausted public spending and have tested Lebanon’s economic, social, and political resilience. Furthermore, since 2011, Government and World Bank estimates reveal that the number of poor people presently living in Lebanon has increased by 170,000 – approximately a two-third fold reaching 2.1 million; of which, 336,000 are living with less than US$2.4 per day, which is under Lebanon’s lowest poverty line. Moreover, the rising demand and restricted supply of accommodation are contributing to soaring rental prices affecting poor Lebanese who are unable to cope with this rise, whereby a 44% increase in rents was reported between June 2012 and June 2013. Keeping your neighbors safe is great and admirable, but most people are not going to accept their salary being cut significantly and the cost of living going up in order to help out their country's neighbors. Just because this concern is bullshit in Europe doesn't mean opposition to massive demographic influxes is fundamentally wrong, as it is largely a zero-sum game for countries like Jordan and Lebanon at least on the timescales that matter to an individual person (i.e. up to a decade maybe). It's very noble to keep your neighbor safe for 10 years but it's also very much NIMBY and almost anyone who thinks they're so altruistic that they would be willing to accept this — unemployment or underemployment, which also means no marriage prospects and a life kept on stasis — is lying to themselves or one of those very rare breed who actually care about the collective good over their own good. Not to mention, this will massively disproportionately affect the poorer people already livingin the regions. Lebanese that own apartments or run businesses are going to make bank since the rents are going up, good prices are going up, and the labor costs are going down.
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Jul 19, 2018 22:41
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Lebanon is super racist towards Syrian refugees tho.
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Jul 20, 2018 01:22
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