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Cat Mattress posted:There's also this: That’s a very clickbait headline compared to what the bill amendment calls for if the NDAA passes as is. It delays delivery until the pentagon reports to Congress what impact would be of delivery to Turkey. Turkey already wasn’t slated to receive any until late 2019, so there’s plenty of time for hashing this out. It sends a message but it’s not at all an embargo or dropping Turkey from the program.
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Jul 26, 2018 18:06
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mlmp08 posted:That’s a very clickbait headline compared to what the bill amendment calls for if the NDAA passes as is. The Washington Times is a mouthpiece of the Unification Church and should be viewed as unreliable.
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Jul 26, 2018 18:23
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Unsurprisingly, Turkey's initial reaction doesn't seem to be abject surrender (though the first comment shows that bold stances may falter over time). https://twitter.com/anadoluagency/status/1022525832311582721
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Jul 26, 2018 18:34
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I am disappointed they did not just rewrite Trump threat to Iran.
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Jul 26, 2018 18:43
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I've had to accept the slimmest of possibilities that one of these days now WW3 may start with one of Trump's tweets being a rework of this classic: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NsZMbs5PC64 Seriously tho, I kinda don't think this poo poo will go anywhere. Erdogan's an authoritarian at heart and the same poo poo that happened with Kim's gonna happen here. CrazyLoon fucked around with this message at 18:54 on Jul 26, 2018 |
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Jul 26, 2018 18:49
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I can't help thinking Turkey telling us to gently caress off with our sanctions as far as their transactions with Iran probably has something to do with this too.
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Jul 26, 2018 18:55
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Volkerball posted:Soleimani is never one to turn down a good sabre rattling. Near where they're least expected? What, do they have a platoon hiding in the bushes of the white house or something?
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Jul 26, 2018 19:28
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Leal posted:Near where they're least expected? What, do they have a platoon hiding in the bushes of the white house or something? Way to ruin the surprise.
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Jul 26, 2018 19:31
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Quds Space Force
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Jul 26, 2018 20:04
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Bip Roberts posted:Lol what a punishment. Countdown to Cruise Missile Liberals insisting that Turkey is a bastion of freedom and democracy and that this is an act of treason to benefit Russia. Really the only problem is that they’ve bought and sold the narrative that Erdogan is bad because he’s a Trump like Populist. If there was a nice Kemalist military regime in power they’d be their biggest fans
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Jul 26, 2018 20:34
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icantfindaname posted:Countdown to Cruise Missile Liberals insisting that Turkey is a bastion of freedom and democracy and that this is an act of treason to benefit Russia. Really the only problem is that they’ve bought and sold the narrative that Erdogan is bad because he’s a Trump like Populist. If there was a nice Kemalist military regime in power they’d be their biggest fans Erdogan has already shown too many signs of disloyalty. I think they would tend towards "Turkey needs to put into its place" and "wouldn't it be nice if Erdogan got replaced" by as you said by Kemalists. I mean the general mood during the coup was "finally, whew!" As for the f-35 program, it seems like Turkey would already have to be pretty deep on the technical side of it, and they are already having their own domestic jet program that would probably benefit from that knowledge. I thought from the get-go Turkey was just getting the minimum number of f-35s they could just to reverse-engineer them.
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Jul 26, 2018 20:50
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Ardennes posted:I thought from the get-go Turkey was just getting the minimum number of f-35s they could just to reverse-engineer them. This is very inaccurate and I’m curious as to where you heard this, because it’s a fascinating level of wrong.
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Jul 26, 2018 21:34
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Leal posted:Near where they're least expected? What, do they have a platoon hiding in the bushes of the white house or something? Israeli government turns out to be an Iranian deep cover mission.
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Jul 26, 2018 21:35
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icantfindaname posted:Countdown to Cruise Missile Liberals insisting that Turkey is a bastion of freedom and democracy and that this is an act of treason to benefit Russia. Really the only problem is that they’ve bought and sold the narrative that Erdogan is bad because he’s a Trump like Populist. If there was a nice Kemalist military regime in power they’d be their biggest fans I think you're misreading US liberals and/or theoretical Kemalists here, every left of center American I know loves the YPG (assuming they know what the YPG is.) A Kemalist regime would presumably lust for Kurd death even harder than Erdogan does
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Jul 26, 2018 21:45
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Flavahbeast posted:I think you're misreading US liberals and/or theoretical Kemalists here, every left of center American I know loves the YPG (assuming they know what the YPG is.) A Kemalist regime would presumably lust for Kurd death even harder than Erdogan does The romance with the Kurds will ultimately be subsumed by the cold hard realpolitikal interest of containing Russia, which is why Turkey is in NATO in the first place. At least, if Erdogan doesn't end up permanently realigning Turkey towards Russia and Iran, which admittedly actually does look reasonably likely at this point. If Kemalism was still around though I think the liberals would jettison the Kurds without much further thought about it icantfindaname fucked around with this message at 21:53 on Jul 26, 2018 |
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Jul 26, 2018 21:49
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icantfindaname posted:Countdown to Cruise Missile Liberals insisting that Turkey is a bastion of freedom and democracy and that this is an act of treason to benefit Russia. Really the only problem is that they’ve bought and sold the narrative that Erdogan is bad because he’s a Trump like Populist. If there was a nice Kemalist military regime in power they’d be their biggest fans Why is it a problem that they've accurately identified Erdogan for what he is exactly?
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Jul 26, 2018 21:53
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Flavahbeast posted:A Kemalist regime would presumably lust for Kurd death even harder than Erdogan does There's this weird thing I see where people sometimes frame Erdogan as "yeah he sucks but at least he isn't a nationalist". He's a flaming raging nationalist, just of a different flavor than the Kemalists. This has always been the case with the Turkish religious right. They're objectively shittier than the Kemalists because they combine the shittiness of Turkish hard nationalism with religious fundamentalism.
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Jul 26, 2018 21:56
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Grape posted:There's this weird thing I see where people sometimes frame Erdogan as "yeah he sucks but at least he isn't a nationalist". Who in the world would say this?
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Jul 26, 2018 22:04
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Count Roland posted:Who in the world would say this? I've seen it before, even here. Mostly back around the coup attempt.
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Jul 26, 2018 22:07
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Grape posted:Why is it a problem that they've accurately identified Erdogan for what he is exactly? It's not necessarily, just that they've done so for the wrong reasons. You could have a genocidally racist regime in Turkey that the liberals would be fine with as long as they're educated secular elites Grape posted:There's this weird thing I see where people sometimes frame Erdogan as "yeah he sucks but at least he isn't a nationalist". He's a flaming raging nationalist, just of a different flavor than the Kemalists. This has always been the case with the Turkish religious right. They're objectively shittier than the Kemalists because they combine the shittiness of Turkish hard nationalism with religious fundamentalism. The Islamist right has in certain sectors and at certain times been less racist towards Kurds/Armenians than the Kemalists. Erdogan isn't anymore, but the political movement he led at least had that potential at one point
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Jul 26, 2018 22:10
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icantfindaname posted:The Islamist right has in certain sectors and at certain times been less racist towards Kurds/Armenians than the Kemalists. Erodan isn't anymore, but the political movement he led at least had that potential at one point lol during the Cyprus invasion the Kemalists lead the government in partnership with the Islamists. After the initial occupation was in place Bulent Ecevit was like "Alright, time to start negotiations with the upper hand." and the Islamists, led by proto-Erdogan, Necmettin Erbakan, basically shot that down point blank because something to the effect of "Any soil taken by the blood of Turkish soldiers must remain Turkish!". They were always about hyper nationalist "gently caress the non-turks" garbage.
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Jul 26, 2018 22:15
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icantfindaname posted:It's not necessarily, just that they've done so for the wrong reasons. You could have a genocidally racist regime in Turkey that the liberals would be fine with as long as they're educated secular elites As unpleasant as this prospect may be, I think there are plenty of liberals who hate Erdogan for the same reasons you do
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Jul 26, 2018 22:18
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The previous kemalist-military regimes were plenty thuggish as well, lets not modern post-ww2 Turkey was actually a functioning democracy or really had respect for human rights to begin with. You had 4 coups, most of them very violent, in the space of 37 years. The shift with Erdogan making it clear he wasn't going to vacate like other Islamist leaders had traditionally done and that he was going to move apart from the US orbit.
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Jul 26, 2018 23:48
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So Imran Khan is pretty much guaranteed to be the next PM of Pakistan. I'm pleasantly surprised that the more Islamist/fundamentalist groups did not get more seats than they did.
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Jul 27, 2018 02:21
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Darth Walrus posted:Love to see Iranian generals talking to US presidents like they want them to release their bankai. Trump's bankai is kinda like Mayuri's, except instead of spreading poison gas it just pisses itself.
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Jul 27, 2018 03:43
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Ardennes posted:The previous kemalist-military regimes were plenty thuggish as well, lets not modern post-ww2 Turkey was actually a functioning democracy or really had respect for human rights to begin with. You had 4 coups, most of them very violent, in the space of 37 years. The coup regimes never consolidated for long, let alone under a distinct personality cult. Erdogan is far more dangerous for this alone in terms of his long term implications.
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Jul 27, 2018 04:58
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Grape posted:The coup regimes never consolidated for long, let alone under a distinct personality cult. Erdogan is far more dangerous for this alone in terms of his long term implications. Eh you could easily argue that the coups were part of a single authoritarian system even if different generals were handling each individual one (although I am sure there was overlap). It is a different style. Also, Erdogan's real power is mostly economic. There has been rough spots but generally, Turkey has seen rather tremendous development since the early 2000s. However, it is a question of how long it can last considering wages have risen with time. I think the real decision point is to come, what will happen if Erdogan's popular seriously falls (he has traditionally at least been able to keep around 45-50% of the country on his side). Ardennes fucked around with this message at 09:08 on Jul 27, 2018 |
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Jul 27, 2018 09:05
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Grape posted:lol during the Cyprus invasion the Kemalists lead the government in partnership with the Islamists. Shortly after 2000, if I remember my chronology, Erdogan was at the forefront of improving Turko-Kurdish relations. He was the guy who allowed first Kurdish language TV station, for example, and he managed to calm tensions with the KPP. Things went to poo poo later on.
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Jul 27, 2018 09:18
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https://twitter.com/salamamoussa/status/1022795927541739520 I don't really blame the US for accepting Sisi's fait accompli, especially since it had been planned and supported by US allies in the region (and yes, they were deeply suspicious of Morsi), but Kerry seemingly buying into Sisi's propaganda about being a reluctant Cincinnatus type putting himself forward only to save Egypt for democracy is nuts, and I'm sure that level of credulity didn't help when it came to trying to prevent Sisi's worst excesses: "Mr. Kerry told me he had argued at the White House that Mr. Morsi’s removal was not, in fact, a coup. General Sisi had merely bowed to the public will in order to save Egypt, Mr. Kerry said, noting that the general had announced a plan for new elections. (Mr. Sisi was elected president the next year and again in 2018, each time with more than 95 percent of the vote.)" Holy poo poo, Hagel was straight up insubordinate before the coup: "The White House was sending Secretary of Defense Chuck Hagel talking points intended to warn General Sisi that Washington would punish a coup. Among other things, United States law mandated a cutoff of aid to any military that overturned an elected leader. But the message Mr. Hagel delivered “was totally, totally different,” a senior official on the National Security Council who read transcripts of the calls later told me. “The White House wanted the message to be, ‘Democracy is important,’ and Hagel wanted it to be, ‘We want to have a good relationship.’ We never could get him to deliver stern talking points.” Israeli leaders had said they were counting on General Sisi because they worried that — despite Mr. Morsi’s repeated pledges — the Muslim Brotherhood might threaten the border or help Hamas. And General Sisi himself had told Mr. Hagel that “there are some very evil, very bad forces afoot — you cannot understand it like we can understand it here.” Mr. Hagel said he had agreed with them all and sought to reassure them: The Muslim Brotherhood “is dangerous — we recognize that,” Mr. Hagel said he told the Emiratis. “I don’t live in Cairo, you do,” Mr. Hagel said he had told General Sisi. “You do have to protect your security, protect your country.” Dr Kool-AIDS fucked around with this message at 12:47 on Jul 27, 2018 |
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Jul 27, 2018 12:31
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The latest Erdogag from Erdogan: try to kidnap a suspected gulenist in Mongolia, get caught doing it, get your aircraft grounded by Mongolian authorities. https://guardian.ng/news/nigeria/mongolia-grounds-turkish-plane-after-suspected-kidnap-attempt/ https://stockholmcf.org/mit-abducts-veysel-akcay-general-director-of-schools-affiliated-with-gulen-movement-in-mongolia/
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Jul 27, 2018 22:56
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Freakazoid_ posted:Trump's bankai is kinda like Mayuri's, except instead of spreading poison gas it just pisses itself. I thought he already unleashed it over London. Urinate, Kintamagashoben (the kanji reads "Piss is stored in the balls") Rigged Death Trap fucked around with this message at 11:37 on Jul 28, 2018 |
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Jul 28, 2018 11:25
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I guess this explains Trump's rage tweet at Turkey this week: According to a Washington Post report Friday, Trump also had reason to believe he’d reached a deal that would secure Brunson’s release. Under the agreement reached at the recent NATO summit in Brussels, Trump reportedly called Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu to ask him to release a Turkish woman detained on charges of smuggling for Hamas—an arrest Erdogan had publicly criticized—in exchange for Brunson’s release. Haaretz has also confirmed the phone call. But on July 18, a few days after Israel deported the woman back to Turkey, a Turkish court rejected Brunson’s appeal for release.* Trump called it a “total disgrace” on Twitter. This week, Brunson was moved to house arrest, a move that Secretary of State Mike Pompeo called “welcome,” but not enough.
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Jul 28, 2018 15:21
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turkey wants the gulen
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Jul 28, 2018 16:28
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Sinteres posted:I guess this explains Trump's rage tweet at Turkey this week: Art of the Deal! 
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Jul 28, 2018 16:34
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Sinteres posted:I guess this explains Trump's rage tweet at Turkey this week: Yeah I don't really blame Trump or Pompeo for being furious about that
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Jul 28, 2018 17:44
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Egypt's coup regime continues their efforts to erase all resistance: https://twitter.com/CNN/status/1023319732584435712
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Jul 28, 2018 23:45
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Cat Mattress posted:The latest Erdogag from Erdogan: try to kidnap a suspected gulenist in Mongolia, get caught doing it, get your aircraft grounded by Mongolian authorities. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ag1o3koTLWM
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Jul 29, 2018 00:14
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Sinteres posted:I guess this explains Trump's rage tweet at Turkey this week: Wow, who would have guessed that Turkey's judicial system is more independent from the executive than Israel's?
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Jul 29, 2018 00:38
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Sinteres posted:Egypt's coup regime continues their efforts to erase all resistance: Good thing the US just unfroze almost 200M in military "aid" to Egypt.
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Jul 29, 2018 02:27
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svenkatesh posted:Wow, who would have guessed that Turkey's judicial system is more independent from the executive than Israel's? I assume you're joking, but if not, the thousands of judges Erdogan fired after the coup attempt might disagree. If he wanted to release the pastor, he would have.
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Jul 29, 2018 04:17
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