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Is that the one that argues that it's totally completely fine, since all you have to do is homebrew the poo poo out of it at every step and give them a flying snake companion ASAP so they be useful and almost pretend to keep up? That was a fun one.
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Jul 29, 2018 16:52
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Proud Rat Mom posted:Lol like any other martial class is expected to: with magic items. Like mearls has come out and said this. What magic items give your animal companion magic damage?
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Jul 29, 2018 16:57
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Proud Rat Mom posted:I think the normal ranger is fine as it is ? Also when I looked at the math, the beast master seems fine if u go two weapon fighting. PHB Hunter Ranger is a rather worse Fighter that gets some spell casting and nearly useless ribbon features to compensate. Its problems are that it's got several downright trap options as part of its diversification features, and that it doesn't scale at all past level 8 (nearly all classes get a meaningful power spike levels 9~11, Ranger does not), but overall it's functional. PHB Beastmaster is awful, since it's taking what's already the weakest class and essentially removing its archetype features. All they truly have when you get down to the brass tacks is the ability to spend 8 hours to auto-pass the Animal Handle checks to befriend and teach tricks to a CR 1/4 beast. It's just stupid, and why Crawford's comments are so funny to me, because it's true: if you want an Animal Companion you're better off playing literally anything else and just telling your DM to fiat you one into existence.
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Jul 29, 2018 17:03
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mango sentinel posted:What magic items give your animal companion magic damage? You probably have like one hope officially, with the hotdq that makes natural weapons magical, I’m pretty sure one of the two fuckers said companions can attune to magical items but it takes one of Your attunement slots
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Jul 29, 2018 17:16
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Sunken treasure game was a hit. For the first time ever people from my group had some prolonged RP scenes and it was good.
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Jul 29, 2018 17:22
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There's no realistic way for the Animal Companion to keep up in combat even if non-magical BPS resistance isn't a factor; its just too fragile, and the Ranger is better off attacking themselves than ordering their beast to attack. Non-combat uses are cool and good but getting a Familiar costs a feat rather than an archetype.
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Jul 29, 2018 17:22
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It's been a while since I heard it, but did a quick pore through and it doesn't hold up as well. 1. beastmaster is spread out and not contained in the phb. you need the mm to play it properly. 2. they have this bad habit of listing stuff in the phb that are suboptimal choices. 3. look at ranger spells. hunter's mark doesn't synergize with the beasts. 4. allow reskinning creature of optimal stats? okay this one is reaching. 5. use the monster creation rules? this sounds like a ton of work. (he then makes heated arguement how a bear might justify cr without multiattack) 6. then he tries to counter the palladin horse. dan dilion justifies it by saying the animal companion can fight things. 7. examples used: Blood hawk, flying snake, giant frog, giant poisonous snake, Wolf, wolf spider. - panther pounce. 8. use animal friendship to give yourself an army. their example is befriending a bear and then have a blood hawk. 9. from level 3-5 animal hit more then you do. 10. get to higher levels, will behind. 11. battlefield control. manuever for flanking. 12. proficiency bonus to damage. 13. look at carrier effects 14. disengage if beast is overwhelmed.
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Jul 29, 2018 17:23
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Yeah that's all BS.
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Jul 29, 2018 17:29
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mango sentinel posted:Where do they admit it's broken? Literally in the Revised Ranger. "High levels of player dissatisfaction and its ranking as the weakest class by a significant margin." It's just not good and the revision was explicitly addressing that.
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Jul 29, 2018 17:34
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Conspiratiorist posted:PHB Hunter Ranger is a rather worse Fighter that gets some spell casting and nearly useless ribbon features to compensate. Its problems are that it's got several downright trap options as part of its diversification features, and that it doesn't scale at all past level 8 (nearly all classes get a meaningful power spike levels 9~11, Ranger does not), but overall it's functional. how is whirlwind attack not a significant power spike? also bestial fury gives your pet two attacks for forgoing one of yours, and you can still two weapon fight
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Jul 29, 2018 17:40
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not saying ranger is powerful, but to compare it unfavorably to the whole class of fighter is wrong.
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Jul 29, 2018 17:43
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Novum posted:Sunken treasure game was a hit. For the first time ever people from my group had some prolonged RP scenes and it was good. Congratulations! It's always nice when people end up just doing some good RP. Did the encounters work out well too?
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Jul 29, 2018 18:03
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Proud Rat Mom posted:how is whirlwind attack not a significant power spike? also bestial fury gives your pet two attacks for forgoing one of yours, and you can still two weapon fight At level 11 your you can sacrifice your bonus attack so your 44hp wolf with 15 AC can attack twice and bounce off damage resistance.
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Jul 29, 2018 18:04
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The ranger should have been what it was in 4e: a sneaky sniper fighter with great woodlore. It had a niche and did it well, plus it allowed you to play Robin of Locksley (the definitive ranger in my opinion). If you ever want to know what capstone a ranger should have at 20th level, I have two words for you: Patriot Arrow. edit: ha found a clip https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AzJd5GVDVDY  I also think the ranger should be the main reason why any random encounters at night should be in the party's favor. There was this game called sang-froid: legend of werewolves where you essentially setup a trapline around your cabin to avoid being run over by monsters and rangers should do something similar. use the subclasses to do the other Archtypes and change the powerset: avatar of the hunter god, beastmaster, harrower, seeker/arcane archer, trapper, The classic ranger always felt like a grab bag. shades of eternity fucked around with this message at 18:41 on Jul 29, 2018 |
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Jul 29, 2018 18:11
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Squidtentacle posted:Congratulations! It's always nice when people end up just doing some good RP. Did the encounters work out well too? Plan: Briefly describe travelling across the country to get to this job and time skip to it. Reality: I brought up a world map for reference and then they wanted to make ALL the travel decisions and we spent two hours provisioning, interacting with improvised NPCs and scenes, and doing a lot of world building before I even got to line two of my notes. Once we got on track though they were so invested in the greater workings and implications of their spot in the world that when I killed the Cleric with a Basilisk and our Ranger spent her inspiration to have him re-roll his death save people were cheering and high fiving. Felt great.
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Jul 29, 2018 18:15
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Proud Rat Mom posted:how is whirlwind attack not a significant power spike? also bestial fury gives your pet two attacks for forgoing one of yours, and you can still two weapon fight How often are you surrounded by more than 3 creatures? Unless you're delivering truly exceptional combined damage or spreading around CC effects, focus-firing is tactically superior. Volley is situational but actually okay due to being a 20-by-20 template that synergizes with Archery and Sharpshooter, but Whirlwind is just terrible. RE Bestial Fury pray tell, what Animal Companion do you think is worth sacrificing a level 11 Ranger's attack for?
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Jul 29, 2018 18:22
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mango sentinel posted:At level 11 your you can sacrifice your bonus attack so your 44hp wolf with 15 AC can attack twice and bounce off damage resistance. same applies to your attacks, fighters, barb etc. You are supposed to have magic weapons if you regularly fight monsters with resistances. not saying that's not bullshit, but it's not a failing of the beastmaster, and if adventurer's league doesn't account for that that's an issue. also your wolf would have 17 ac, advantage on attack and do 2d4+6, which is better than your damage with a d8 weapon. also its ac can be more with barding, which iirc any medium armor has been ruled fine for. even later levels they can get your bonus hunters mark for free
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Jul 29, 2018 18:23
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Conspiratiorist posted:How often are you surrounded by more than 3 creatures? Unless you're delivering truly exceptional combined damage or spreading around CC effects, focus-firing is tactically superior. Volley is situational but actually okay due to being a 20-by-20 template that synergizes with Archery and Sharpshooter, but Whirlwind is just terrible. I meant the whole feature multiattack, sorry. but even whirlwind it does come up (and it will with the average room size for encounters) it's better ( and more flavorable) then an extra weapon die+mod a fighter gets. taken with the level 3 hordebreaker it super neat.
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Jul 29, 2018 18:29
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Proud Rat Mom posted:not saying ranger is powerful, but to compare it unfavorably to the whole class of fighter is wrong. There is a segment of players who math it all out, and base decisions on this. It's kind of gamey but people like to look at classes that way for one reason or another.
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Jul 29, 2018 18:29
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Proud Rat Mom posted:same applies to your attacks, fighters, barb etc. You are supposed to have magic weapons if you regularly fight monsters with resistances. not saying that's not bullshit, but it's not a failing of the beastmaster, and if adventurer's league doesn't account for that that's an issue. A level 11 martial is expected to have a magic weapon. Nothing gives your animal companion magical attacks and that is very much a failing of Beastmaster. I don't know about barding. Base damage may be higher for the pet but does not include Hunter's Mark, which doesn't actually work with Shared Spells.
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Jul 29, 2018 18:36
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Philthy posted:There is a segment of players who math it all out, and base decisions on this. It's kind of gamey but people like to look at classes that way for one reason or another. I like both classes ideally. but even if you do the maths I don't think ranger comes out poorer by any significant margin to the fighter, but they also get spells and a load of nifty flavour/useful abilitys.
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Jul 29, 2018 18:39
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mango sentinel posted:A level 11 martial is expected to have a magic weapon. Nothing gives your animal companion magical attacks and that is very much a failing of Beastmaster. I don't know about barding. Base damage may be higher for the pet but does not include Hunter's Mark, which doesn't actually work with Shared Spells. Like i said, Beastmaster counts as martial and, it came across before they did some clarifications that they expected everything to be balanced around no magical items. Yeah i'm wrong about hunters mark, but it's just one of your three attacks (two weapon fighting). Your pet can be anywhere in the encounter, providing 44hp someone else ain't getting hit with, and you pet eventually can get stuff like stoneskin with you. again, It's not the best but when you are playing the game with martial clerics, moon druids or gmw barbs it not a big enough difference on the power scale to be worth worrying about.
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Jul 29, 2018 18:50
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I'm in the process of converting one of my player's character from PHB ranger to UA ranger. Comparing them side by side, the big changes they get are to Favored Enemy and whatever that bundle of "you're a survivorman" abilities is called. Still, they're big enough changes that they actually loving matter. I know that the player of this character has never even thought to use his survivorman stuff, even though there's been plenty of scenarios where they're applicable.
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Jul 29, 2018 18:50
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Proud Rat Mom posted:same applies to your attacks, fighters, barb etc. You are supposed to have magic weapons if you regularly fight monsters with resistances. not saying that's not bullshit, but it's not a failing of the beastmaster, and if adventurer's league doesn't account for that that's an issue. Okay so you've got two +8 to hit attacks at advantage, 2d4+6 each. VS AC 16, that's an expected DPR of 20.28, not too bad. Now let's take a level 11 Ranger who doesn't know what he's doing and somehow doesn't have a magic weapon, so his is one attack is at +9 to hit, 2d8+1d6+5. Expected DPR is 9.5, so 113% damage increase on the attack, which looks pretty good as far as napkin math goes, right? Now let's build a Ranger, but for real. +7 to hit, 1d8+1d6+16+[1d8], his expected DPR is 21.7 on that one attack, which is magical and fired from literally hundreds of feet away. Yeah... Also, Shared Spells doesn't work with Hunter's Mark. And this is comparing Ranger to Ranger for the sake of simplicity, and not to an actually good martial.
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Jul 29, 2018 18:53
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Am I the only one who thought it was weird to read "Say your wolf friend has been fighting by your side for an adventure, the DM might give the wolf a level in fighter. This is a legitimate use of the DMG rules" I absolutely and completely hate every and any usage of "pets" in any fantasy setting , let alone roleplaying, so I'm fine with beast masters sucking but this is legitimately funny
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Jul 29, 2018 19:01
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mastershakeman posted:Am I the only one who thought it was weird to read Did a pokemon kill your family or something?
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Jul 29, 2018 19:05
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Having a pet and/or summoning poo poo is super cool, but it is such an incredible pain in the dick when it comes to rules that I end up softbanning it in any games I run.
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Jul 29, 2018 19:05
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inthesto posted:Having a pet and/or summoning poo poo is super cool, but it is such an incredible pain in the dick when it comes to rules that I end up softbanning it in any games I run. The platonic ideal of 5e BM is basically you play the pet in combat and the Hunter is just a secondary pawn doing one attack or spell pretty turn.
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Jul 29, 2018 19:28
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Pet classes and summoning is so loving stupid, yes what we needed was more poo poo in the initiative roster. I ran a one shot once for a small convention and one girl noticed she could technically summon like a half dozen things. I had to plead with her not to. That's not great design, is all.
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Jul 29, 2018 21:05
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Mendrian posted:Pet classes and summoning is so loving stupid, yes what we needed was more poo poo in the initiative roster. For my group I just allowed the PHB ranger take the +2 DMG to their favoured enemy from the UA, and they gain the Favoured Terrain bonuses from the UA as well. However the Favoured Enemy and Favoured Terrain selection remains the same. That slight damage boost is nice and the Favoured Terrain poo poo in combat is pretty huge. As far as Beast Master goes it's just pretty hosed. Basically it IS ok if you take that stupid flying sex snake but aside from that it is a bad choice. Dunno what I'd do to fix that, as I never put in the effort.
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Jul 29, 2018 21:25
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Mendrian posted:Pet classes and summoning is so loving stupid, yes what we needed was more poo poo in the initiative roster. You sound like a lot of fun. That being said pets should work like they do in Gloomhaven where they act before you in your turn and are completely deterministic. I have no idea how deterministic behavior would work in D&D but whatever. Keep em simple.
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Jul 29, 2018 21:56
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Do Mearls and Crawford actually know what they're doing? "The design of the game is fine... So long as you don't play the game as designed." Huh? Why are there about 10 separate issues with 5e to which the answer from the actual developers is to houserule it and stop bothering them? I am seriously suspect of the abilities of these people. I don't understand how they are in charge. e: Say all you want that they know people are going to houserule anyway, but shouldn't they at least be designing the game for Adventurer's League? I seem to remember reading somewhere that only 5 classes are actually viable there?
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Jul 30, 2018 00:33
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Mendrian posted:Pet classes and summoning is so loving stupid, yes what we needed was more poo poo in the initiative roster. Its incredible because the way to implement pets well has already been figured out. They are status effects you apply to characters, either helping an ally or hindering an enemy. You make them non-entities on the battlefield as these cool animals are too fast and/or bulky to be taken down directly.
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Jul 30, 2018 00:37
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kingcom posted:Its incredible because the way to implement pets well has already been figured out. They are status effects you apply to characters
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Jul 30, 2018 01:30
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FRINGE posted:I hate that even more than tracking individual squirrels. Why? Thats basically how familiars work.
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Jul 30, 2018 01:41
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RyuHimora posted:Do Mearls and Crawford actually know what they're doing? "The design of the game is fine... So long as you don't play the game as designed." Huh? Why are there about 10 separate issues with 5e to which the answer from the actual developers is to houserule it and stop bothering them? I am seriously suspect of the abilities of these people. I don't understand how they are in charge. Lol. No it has been very apparent since late 4e, before the playtesting even started for this edition, that Mearls had absolutely no loving idea what he was doing. Also Matt Coville looks like a wookie or a gnome or something. GIANT FRINGE OF HAIR
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Jul 30, 2018 01:44
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I can't speak for them but I feel like the Owl Familiar style of "pet" sucks entirely because it's such a non-entity. It doesn't feel evocative of having a powerful or meaningful pet.
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Jul 30, 2018 01:45
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kingcom posted:Why? Thats basically how familiars work. Considering that the most common thing I hear of with 5e familiars is people milking imps for their poison, those are an incredible mess of failure.
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Jul 30, 2018 01:45
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Arivia posted:Considering that the most common thing I hear of with 5e familiars is people milking imps for their poison, those are an incredible mess of failure. don't forget the Flyby Assist tactic!
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Jul 30, 2018 01:50
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mango sentinel posted:I can't speak for them but I feel like the Owl Familiar style of "pet" sucks entirely because it's such a non-entity. It doesn't feel evocative of having a powerful or meaningful pet. Alright so thats why going for a full pet gives you bigger options for what your pet is doing. You free action call them do things that combine with you depending on type. Such as: -Apply status effect (immobilising, poisoned,prone etc) -Add damage to your successful hit -Lower target AC/give advantage on attack -Give disadvantage on target attack -Force Concentration saves to maintain spells -Force movement/overrun -Reduce number of attacks Or you protect your allies -Increase friendly AC -Grant bonus reactions to ally -Grant bonus damage/status effect on reaction attacks Theres a whole world of design space here.
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Jul 30, 2018 01:55
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