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Pick posted:“People don’t want that crap no more! People want shooootiinnngggg” This is exactly what TV executives believe.
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Jul 30, 2018 04:09
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I'm actually trying to remember which RLM has that quote in it because it pops into my head, well, any time Trek gets unnecessarily gritty.
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Jul 30, 2018 04:11
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Tom Guycot posted:Orville had a bad star trek 'everyones horny' episode, but, man at least it wasn't as bad as having to watch graphic rape scenes and trauma like on discovery. I mean it's all entertainment so watch what you want to watch, but a show portraying non-consensual sex, coerced upon a man by a woman no less, as traumatising is infinitely "better" for lack of a better term than treating it as a gag or something to be shrugged off between episodes. Now, making L'Rell first woman Klingon Chancellor was a real  move
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Jul 30, 2018 04:14
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Seeing someone suffer from PTSD after being sexually assaulted is actually much more useful than lol rape jokes. I didn’t love everything about how Disco handled the Tyler/Voq/L’Rell thing but I do plan on telling Shazad Latif that his depiction of a survivor was helpful to me at STLV. Seeing the interactions between he and Michael (even if those flashbacks were a bit much) was worlds from seeing the male crew all standing around discussing what Deanna should do about being mind raped for the 37th time on TNG while she isn’t even in the room. I’m a survivor who has talked about the show with other survivors. There’s good and bad in it. I haven’t seen that episode of The Orville. I probably never will. But I’ve seen the lazy jokes you’re describing plenty of times. Not a fan.
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Jul 30, 2018 04:29
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The Orville rape episode offends me both for the shallow rape jokes and because "let's make a lasting peace happen by brainwashing two ambassadors into temporarily loving each other" is so dumb it can't even hold suspension of disbelief until the credits roll.
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Jul 30, 2018 04:58
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Roadie posted:The Orville rape episode offends me both for the shallow rape jokes and because "let's make a lasting peace happen by brainwashing two ambassadors into temporarily loving each other" is so dumb it can't even hold suspension of disbelief until the credits roll. Yeah, but it was pretty funny when those two angry "warrior species" archetypes held hands and looked lovingly at one another at the end of the episode.
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Jul 30, 2018 05:04
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turn left hillary!! noo posted:Yeah I'm basically in the reverse situation as that other guy: occasionally I get slightly interested in resuming Discovery but then I hear more about it. Even if it weren't for the existence of The Orville, I'm not yearning that badly for more Star Trek. I will bet that this season will pretty much be a reboot of the concept, and people like you who skipped the first season will just be able to jump on without having seen Season 1 and enjoy all the Pike goodness.
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Jul 30, 2018 05:07
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Astroman posted:I will bet that this season will pretty much be a reboot of the concept, and people like you who skipped the first season will just be able to jump on without having seen Season 1 and enjoy all the Pike goodness. I'm willing to entertain the notion, but I still won't be giving CBS any money for All Access.
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Jul 30, 2018 05:38
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I just have no desire to see some "The Wire" level grit in my fun ( or what should be fun) sci fi show relaxation time. Theres nothing infinitely better, or even better at all of having to watch someone go through brutal sexual assault and all the following trauma for no reason. I'll take a silly sci fi one off love potion episode that falls flat over that any day of the week. I'm sick of having to watch that gritty rape poo poo in every half assed show and movie that wants to show how 'serious' and 'dramatic' is. It doesn't feel any less exploitive than loving Death Wish.
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Jul 30, 2018 05:45
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HD DAD posted:It’s kind of interesting in a cultural sense with what we want out of our media, in the context of Trek and in the context of “now” versus “then”. If, say, late Voyager or Enterprise had gone all graphic trauma and horror and hard choices, it probably would have been applauded by the fan base. I was online at that time, and people were sick of the usual formula. At that point, there had been over a decade of safe, wholesome-ish Trek, and some 90s grimdark would have probably been welcomed. Enterprise did and were pretty well mocked for it. At the start of the storyline the Xindi were a big 9/11 allegory done in 2003. Never forget the Florida attack. 
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Jul 30, 2018 05:49
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I’ll never understand why Enterprise picked Florida. Even if they wanted to keep the stuff with Trip’s sister, why not have her in whatever city when the attack happened? Your audience is going to have a much stronger reaction to seeing something happen to Chicago, LA, London, Tokyo, etc than a 20 mile stretch of Nowhere, Florida. And really, what bunch of morons do the test run for their secret prototype Death Star on the same planet they’re going to eventually attack and make the device recognizable enough to allow their enemies to track it back to its source? Nothing about the Xindi storyline makes sense because it’s all written specifically as a forced 9/11 analogue. I’ll never understand why people rate that season above literally any of the other three.
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Jul 30, 2018 06:01
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Wait, I'm blanking on this, did we give some sort of alien race a medal for destroying Florida?
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Jul 30, 2018 06:09
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Geekboy posted:Seeing someone suffer from PTSD after being sexually assaulted is actually much more useful than lol rape jokes. I didn’t love everything about how Disco handled the Tyler/Voq/L’Rell thing but I do plan on telling Shazad Latif that his depiction of a survivor was helpful to me at STLV. You really need to chill, try a Retepsian cocktail
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Jul 30, 2018 06:29
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Tom Guycot posted:I just have no desire to see some "The Wire" level grit in my fun ( or what should be fun) sci fi show relaxation time. Theres nothing infinitely better, or even better at all of having to watch someone go through brutal sexual assault and all the following trauma for no reason. The "reason" is representation. Normalization. People who have lived through it seeing themselves onscreen is therapeutic. Pretending it doesn't happen doesn't help anyone. I agree that I could do with a lot less sexual assault in my media, but mostly because of it being handled so piss-poorly. Y'know, like if someone used it as a punchline to a bad joke. Disco is arguably exploitative, but it shows a male survivor of sexual assault being treated like a human afterwards, with compassion and good boundaries. Which, as much as other aspects of that storyline make me scratch my head, I found downright helpful to my existence in the world. Your experience can be different and that's okay, but don't pretend bad rape jokes are "better" than something genuinely attempting to portray it responsibly (even if they kinda failed). Sorry I don't think Seth McFarlane's TNG fanfic show sounds very good. But keep trying to find a way that something else being bad makes it being bad okay if you want to. I don't care enough about the Orville to continue talking about it. --edit McSpanky posted:You really need to chill, try a Retepsian cocktail You might have noticed I never respond to you. I'll make an exception exactly once to reveal it's because you're boring. You've always been boring. You continue to be boring. More than 10 years and I can't remember you ever adding anything interesting to a conversation. Anyway, I've watched all of Enterprise within the last year or so and I can't remember most of it. The vast majority, in fact. It's so forgettable. DS9 did 9/11 better than Enterprise. Most things did 9/11 better than Enterprise. Geekboy fucked around with this message at 06:36 on Jul 30, 2018 |
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Jul 30, 2018 06:33
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At this point Cupid's Dagger is likely The Orville's Sub Rosa. I mean , when you heard about Grandma Crusher's Irish Candle Alien Rape Ghost I assume you swore off The Next Generation as well, right? (Cupid's Dagger was gross as gently caress but it's an anomaly in the season.)
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Jul 30, 2018 06:35
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Tom Guycot posted:I just have no desire to see some "The Wire" level grit in my fun ( or what should be fun) sci fi show relaxation time. Theres nothing infinitely better, or even better at all of having to watch someone go through brutal sexual assault and all the following trauma for no reason. Your brain is broken if you can't evaluate a work by any other standard than whether it's personally entertaining to you, or even validate the presence of elements you find incongruous just because it breaches your "fun" bubble, but I've already appealed to your desire to just watch whatever makes you feel good and not watch what makes you feel bad so I don't know why you felt the need to assert again that it's YOUR sci-fi fun time and those bastard snowflakes in the Disco writer's room are ruining it and the show with grime n' grit. You don't "have" to watch anything you child. And what I was obviously reaching for by saying "better" was "respectful to the gravity of sexual violence and the experiences of survivors", but that doesn't apply to "Cupid's Arrow" because that definitely wasn't something The Orville was trying to do so I was at a bit of a loss to try to directly compare the two on those merits. Orville was trying to entertain you with yet another "love potion" episode by playing off tropes that were old and dated when Seth was still making cameos on Enterprise, because that whole series is just mad-libs old Trek scripts. But if you honestly can't tell the difference between Discovery and loving Death Wish, than I don't even know how to begin to until the Gordian knot your mind is wound into
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Jul 30, 2018 06:39
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8one6 posted:At this point Cupid's Dagger is likely The Orville's Sub Rosa. I mean , when you heard about Grandma Crusher's Irish Candle Alien Rape Ghost I assume you swore off The Next Generation as well, right? TNG also had a season 1 ep that humorously alleged that a diplomatic incident was resolved after one faction ate the other one. I take it everyone not down with the cannibalism of sentients jumped ship after that blunder! Geekboy posted:You might have noticed I never respond to you. I'll make an exception exactly once to reveal it's because you're boring. You've always been boring. You continue to be boring. More than 10 years and I can't remember you ever adding anything interesting to a conversation. While you were posting in trek threads, I was studying the trellis McSpanky fucked around with this message at 06:42 on Jul 30, 2018 |
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Jul 30, 2018 06:39
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Geekboy posted:You might have noticed I never respond to you. I'll make an exception exactly once to reveal it's because you're boring. You've always been boring. You continue to be boring. More than 10 years and I can't remember you ever adding anything interesting to a conversation. This is a weakass callout. It is also very 
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Jul 30, 2018 06:49
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Peachfart posted:This is a weakass callout. It is also very A better one would require me to care more.
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Jul 30, 2018 06:56
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Your experience can be different and that's okay, but don't pretend exploitative rape scenes are "better" than something genuinely attempting to do a harmless love potion episode (even if they fail big in not realizing its 2018 now).
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Jul 30, 2018 07:14
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8one6 posted:At this point Cupid's Dagger is likely The Orville's Sub Rosa. I mean , when you heard about Grandma Crusher's Irish Candle Alien Rape Ghost I assume you swore off The Next Generation as well, right? They're just following TNG tradition of putting a mistimed, ill-conceived "everyone gets horny" episode in the first season.
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Jul 30, 2018 07:17
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Drink-Mix Man posted:They're just following TNG tradition of putting a mistimed, ill-conceived "everyone gets horny" episode in the first season. I don't remember which season the ds9 one is in but it's plenty bad too. however it DOES make me think they should have weaponized it.
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Jul 30, 2018 07:18
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Tom Guycot posted:Your experience can be different and that's okay, but don't pretend exploitative rape scenes are "better" than something genuinely attempting to do a harmless love potion episode (even if they fail big in not realizing its 2018 now). the Discovery rape stuff is exploitative because it made me do frowny face and the Orville rape stuff is genuine and harmless because it made me do smile face. pee pee doo doo I'm Tom Guycot
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Jul 30, 2018 07:22
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Pick posted:I don't remember which season the ds9 one is in but it's plenty bad too. however it DOES make me think they should have weaponized it. Unless I’m forgetting one, the only similar DS9 episode is the one where O’Brien and Kira get increasingly awkward because she’s acting as Keiko’s surrogate. And that’s way different context than “horny alien pheromones”.
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Jul 30, 2018 07:23
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Big Mean Jerk posted:Unless I’m forgetting one, the only similar DS9 episode is the one where O’Brien and Kira get increasingly awkward because she’s acting as Keiko’s surrogate. And that’s way different context than “horny alien pheromones”. Nah the one with Lwuxana where her being all mad horny for Odo makes everyone try to gently caress one another. It's her second episode on DS9. Also at the end they're like "heheh... but it couldn't happen without some... subconscious attraction" or smh. I think it was just to focus test some ships, like how Jadzia is on Sisko and Bashir on Kira. They didn't have any fun going to wild places like Quark mad randy to plumb O'Butthole.
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Jul 30, 2018 07:26
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e: gently caress beatenPick posted:I don't remember which season the ds9 one is in but it's plenty bad too. however it DOES make me think they should have weaponized it. it's the one where Lwaxana has a virus that makes her empathy powers do the thing but with the usual caveat of only if they already had the latent feelings to be brought out  the episode is "Fascination", S3 E10
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Jul 30, 2018 07:29
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 I forgot that episode existed. The only DS9 Lwaxana episode I ever remember is the one where she and Odo are stuck in the elevator.
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Jul 30, 2018 07:33
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there is literally nobody less funny than seth macfarlane other than the average SA poster
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Jul 30, 2018 07:36
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Autism Sneaks posted:it's the one where Lwaxana has a virus that makes her empathy powers do the thing but with the usual caveat of only if they already had the latent feelings to be brought out Can't overemphasize enough that this was the right time to explain why sisko and dukat fuckin skype all day
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Jul 30, 2018 07:39
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Low Desert Punk posted:there is literally nobody less funny than seth macfarlane other than the average SA poster I think he is just fine in the Orville and he is occasionally fine in other things.
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Jul 30, 2018 07:47
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Didn't it turn out that Clem Fandango or whoever was misremembering consentual Klingon sex? And then he went off to join her in the end because he actually loved her or something? Did he get his Klingon memories back? Ugh why am I such a self loathing dingus that I watched the whole season even though I hated every minute of it
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Jul 30, 2018 08:59
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hey best tv franchise fans what are the good new Star Trek books? read a bunch of 'em a couple years ago, really liked the one that was short stories from different parallel universes, thought the one where the crew of the NX-02 accidentally creates the Borg was just okay, and I read one about Bashir going on a spy mission to the Breen homeworld with a lady spy and at the end after they gently caress DUN DUN DUNNNNN she's a double agent!!!! it was dumb as hell so what's good, thread?
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Jul 30, 2018 10:32
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I'm friends with Dayton Ward so just read anything with his name on it. It's usually pretty good*. *I haven't read his STD tie-in book yet so I can't speak to that one.
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Jul 30, 2018 11:17
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uh am I completely insane, because I remember the Tyler story being an allegory to trans and similar issues and basically not doing anything with the rape stuff It was also one of the few good things about DISCO
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Jul 30, 2018 11:20
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Broke: space horny plots. Woke: Two dick rape trauma.
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Jul 30, 2018 11:33
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Tom Guycot posted:Your experience can be different and that's okay, but don't pretend exploitative rape scenes are "better" than something genuinely attempting to do a harmless love potion episode (even if they fail big in not realizing its 2018 now). Is the story where rape is presented as traumatic also potentially bad? Yes, it can be badly executed and emotionally manipulative. But it's not as fundamentally hosed up as the concept of "harmless" comedy rape. The Orville is on the whole, pretty awesome. But there's really no defending that episode.
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Jul 30, 2018 11:59
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womb with a view posted:Didn't it turn out that Clem Fandango or whoever was misremembering consentual Klingon sex? And then he went off to join her in the end because he actually loved her or something? Did he get his Klingon memories back? Ugh why am I such a self loathing dingus that I watched the whole season even though I hated every minute of it Yes Tyler was remembering having consensual Klingon sex when he was Voq. When he just had those fragments of memories, and didn’t realise he was a secret Klingon, he thought he had been raped.
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Jul 30, 2018 12:14
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Pick posted:Wait, I'm blanking on this, did we give some sort of alien race a medal for destroying Florida? ARTIST REPRESENTATION OF THE XINDI ATTACK 
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Jul 30, 2018 12:48
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Can't we all agree that Chain of Command would have been better if, instead of treating torture and its psychological effects with due weight and realism, it had instead been a wacky comedy? This grimdark nonsense has no place in the show!
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Jul 30, 2018 13:03
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McSpanky posted:You really need to chill, try a Retepsian cocktail I'm the guy telling a rape survivor they need to "chill" Geekboy posted:The "reason" is representation. Normalization. People who have lived through it seeing themselves onscreen is therapeutic. Pretending it doesn't happen doesn't help anyone. My wife and I had to quit watching BSG because she is a rape survivor. Let me tell you, watching them rape a cylon prisoner was not at all therapeutic for her, and in fact to some degree re-traumatized her.
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Jul 30, 2018 13:29
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