p-lang thread: (now (have you (problems two)))

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Serious Hardware/Software Crap > YOSPOS > p-lang thread: (now (have you (problems two)))

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DONT THREAD ON ME: Oct 1, 2002; by Nyc_Tattoo; Floss Finder

look if you want to type safely just buy a kinesis advantage pro, it's compatible with any language and it looks and feels great.

# ? Jul 29, 2018 23:11

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# ? Jun 4, 2024 00:40

DONT THREAD ON ME: Oct 1, 2002; by Nyc_Tattoo; Floss Finder

it also has a foot pedal which is great if you use modal typing systems

# ? Jul 29, 2018 23:13

Lonely Wolf: Jan 20, 2003; Will hawk false idols for heaps and heaps of dough.

comedyblissoption posted:

interface{} everywhere is a golang idiom, because the golang standard library itself uses the idiom of forcing consumers to use interface{} everywhere and giving language users the worst of both dynamic and static typing
https://github.com/golang/go/issues/23077

the vast majority of that list uses interface{} for reflection, which is a legitimate use of interface{} since you're inspecting the RTTI anyway

a small portion of it is to make up for a lack of sum types (which also sucks)

there are a couple cases like context when the user is providing an arbitrarily-typed value and is the only one getting it back later but multiple users are providing values, all of differing types, so there's no single type to parameterize over

none of those would be helped by generics

the rest are things like sync.Map or the useless container/* packages where generics would certainly fix everything

Volte posted:

What's the alternative

don't try to write a generic data structure because you can't. use the built in generic types like slice and map, if you can, and write a type-specific data structure if you cannot (which is often fairly simple to do in terms of slices and maps)

algorithms are simpler because you can define them in terms of an interface, like sort.Interface does it

# ? Jul 29, 2018 23:13

comedyblissoption: Mar 15, 2006

Volte posted:

What's the alternative

# ? Jul 29, 2018 23:35

Sapozhnik: Jan 2, 2005; Nap Ghost

comedyblissoption posted:

cursed image

# ? Jul 30, 2018 00:42

Suspicious Dish: Sep 24, 2011; 2020 is the year of linux on the desktop, bro; Fun Shoe

im the three separate I-beam cursors in the last image

# ? Jul 30, 2018 00:45

Ellie Crabcakes: Feb 1, 2008; Stop emailing my boyfriend Gay Crungus

comedyblissoption posted:

fixed for appropriate score

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nV76z7B7lsY

# ? Jul 30, 2018 01:05

Lonely Wolf: Jan 20, 2003; Will hawk false idols for heaps and heaps of dough.

I'm the missing edge cases for floats

# ? Jul 30, 2018 01:07

redleader: Aug 18, 2005; Engage according to operational parameters

Volte posted:

What's the alternative

https://www.reddit.com/r/rust/comments/5penft/parallelizing_enjarify_in_go_and_rust/dcsgk7n/

# ? Jul 30, 2018 01:22

Zlodo: Nov 25, 2006

comedyblissoption posted:

this is a sacrilege against the great vision of Rob "colors are for children" Pike

# ? Jul 30, 2018 01:50

Athas: Aug 6, 2007; fuck that joker

MALE SHOEGAZE posted:

look if you want to type safely just buy a kinesis advantage pro, it's compatible with any language and it looks and feels great.

Can confirm; strong typing goes well with static typing. Been using a Kinesis Advantage for years (not Pro because I am an academic).

# ? Jul 30, 2018 14:12

prisoner of waffles: May 8, 2007; Ah! well a-day! what evil looks
Had I from old and young!
Instead of the cross, the fishmech
About my neck was hung.

TIRED: relentlessly mocking interface{}
WIRED: making fun of https://golang.org/pkg/sort/ and everything implemented like it

nbsd is it still haram if I use a container of interface{} as the under-the-covers implementation of a typesafe container? At that point, the copypaste is reduced from "whole implementation" down to "just the interface methods, full of typecasts".

# ? Jul 30, 2018 19:21

Lonely Wolf: Jan 20, 2003; Will hawk false idols for heaps and heaps of dough.

everything in sort is fine except sort.Slice which is dumb

# ? Jul 30, 2018 19:58

prisoner of waffles: May 8, 2007; Ah! well a-day! what evil looks
Had I from old and young!
Instead of the cross, the fishmech
About my neck was hung.

Lonely Wolf posted:

everything in sort is fine except sort.Slice which is dumb

yeah, I agree that sort is okay (if clunky)

package sort is also a golden example of how, in go, things that you normally would use generics for don't have to use interface{}

# ? Jul 30, 2018 20:06

redleader: Aug 18, 2005; Engage according to operational parameters

prisoner of waffles posted:

TIRED: relentlessly mocking interface{}
WIRED: making fun of https://golang.org/pkg/sort/ and everything implemented like it

this is some tragic poo poo. does go not even have operator overloading?

# ? Jul 30, 2018 21:30

Volte: Oct 4, 2004; woosh woosh

prisoner of waffles posted:

yeah, I agree that sort is okay (if clunky)

package sort is also a golden example of how, in go, things that you normally would use generics for don't have to use interface{}

That package is the epitome of "see, we don't need generics *proceeds to emulate generics in the clunkiest possible way*". there's not needing generics and there's not admitting it

edit: I guess that's got nothing to do with interface{} but christ, the whole problem could have been avoided

# ? Jul 30, 2018 21:44

Toady: Jan 12, 2009

people are constantly complaining about go. why does anyone use it?

# ? Jul 30, 2018 22:26

prisoner of waffles: May 8, 2007; Ah! well a-day! what evil looks
Had I from old and young!
Instead of the cross, the fishmech
About my neck was hung.

your periodic reminder that they haven't said no* to generics (just no to many of the performance or structural characteristics common to generics in other languages)

if you are like "I am a genius and they just need to add generics liek _so_" you can go and take a dang look at the proposal-in-the-abstract: https://github.com/golang/proposal/blob/master/design/15292-generics.md

and at the 4 concrete proposals, all of which were not accepted but serve as examples of what functionality they want:
https://github.com/golang/proposal/blob/master/design/15292/2010-06-type-functions.md
https://github.com/golang/proposal/blob/master/design/15292/2011-03-gen.md
https://github.com/golang/proposal/blob/master/design/15292/2013-10-gen.md
https://github.com/golang/proposal/blob/master/design/15292/2013-12-type-params.md

# ? Jul 30, 2018 22:32

Space Whale: Nov 6, 2014

C is scary I guess
And cpp is cpp

# ? Jul 30, 2018 22:33

prisoner of waffles: May 8, 2007; Ah! well a-day! what evil looks
Had I from old and young!
Instead of the cross, the fishmech
About my neck was hung.

Rob Pike posted:

C is scary I guess
And cpp is cpp

# ? Jul 30, 2018 22:36

champagne posting: Apr 5, 2006; YOU ARE A BRAIN
IN A BUNKER

Toady posted:

people are constantly complaining about go. why does anyone use it?

Does anyone actually use it on a large scale? All I've seen of examples are Google and a lovely wine app company in copenhagen.

# ? Jul 30, 2018 22:43

Space Whale: Nov 6, 2014

Lol

# ? Jul 30, 2018 22:43

Notorious b.s.d.: Jan 25, 2003; by Reene

prisoner of waffles posted:

your periodic reminder that they haven't said no* to generics (just no to many of the performance or structural characteristics common to generics in other languages)

if you are like "I am a genius and they just need to add generics liek _so_" you can go and take a dang look at the proposal-in-the-abstract: https://github.com/golang/proposal/blob/master/design/15292-generics.md

and at the 4 concrete proposals, all of which were not accepted but serve as examples of what functionality they want:
https://github.com/golang/proposal/blob/master/design/15292/2010-06-type-functions.md
https://github.com/golang/proposal/blob/master/design/15292/2011-03-gen.md
https://github.com/golang/proposal/blob/master/design/15292/2013-10-gen.md
https://github.com/golang/proposal/blob/master/design/15292/2013-12-type-params.md

none of this matters

it's too late

they needed generics on day one. ten years of banging void{} around, including in the stdlib itself, dictates that it will always be turbofucked

think how long the hangover of no-generics, then type erasure, haunted java. (and that language had much greater overall uptake + billions of dollars of investment from multiple vendors!)

# ? Jul 30, 2018 22:50

Notorious b.s.d.: Jan 25, 2003; by Reene

Boiled Water posted:

Does anyone actually use it on a large scale? All I've seen of examples are Google and a lovely wine app company in copenhagen.

don't forget kubernetes

even if very few people choose to develop new things in go, they're still affected by the "quality" of the golang ecosystem

# ? Jul 30, 2018 22:51

rjmccall: Sep 7, 2007; no worries friend; Fun Shoe

none of those are language proposals, they are essentially vague requests for someone else to please start thinking about making a language proposal

go will never actually do generics because they introduce way more complexity than the go implementors are comfortable with. go is not quite python levels of "gently caress you we'd rather be slow than weird" but they're not adventurous people

# ? Jul 30, 2018 22:53

DONT THREAD ON ME: Oct 1, 2002; by Nyc_Tattoo; Floss Finder

Notorious b.s.d. posted:

none of this matters

it's too late

they needed generics on day one. ten years of banging void{} around, including in the stdlib itself, dictates that it will always be turbofucked

think how long the hangover of no-generics, then type erasure, haunted java. (and that language had much greater overall uptake + billions of dollars of investment from multiple vendors!)

you�re discounting the possibility of a gotwo which could ignore backwards compat. i thought that was the plan but i haven�t followed it in a whole

# ? Jul 30, 2018 23:04