Korea Thread: Fumbling to take a bite of kimchi

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > Korea Thread: Fumbling to take a bite of kimchi

fishmech: Jul 16, 2006; by VideoGames; Salad Prong

R. Guyovich posted:

you're using semantics in defense of fishmech, of all people. the soviet-dprk relationship was not at all like the us-rok relationship. the end

Those relationships were extremely similar and to say otherwise is indefensible.

The fact that you're complaining about that is odd, and that you think describing Kim Il Sung's regime seeking active approval from the PRC and Soviet Union before the war is something that needs to be opposed? That's just weird.

# ? Jul 31, 2018 16:52

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# ? May 21, 2024 22:04

mlmp08: Jul 11, 2004; Prepare for my priapic projectile's exalted penetration; Nap Ghost

OhFunny posted:

https://twitter.com/rsimmon/status/1024081566136328193

This doesn't appear to be disarmament.

Yeah, cause it isn�t. And anyone who thought North Korea was disarming or denuclearizing is an idiot.

However, failed diplomatic efforts or misrepresented outcomes on the part of the US admin shouldn�t be used to say diplomacy is impossible. I�m sure plenty of hawks will do just that, though.

# ? Jul 31, 2018 18:29

chitoryu12: Apr 24, 2014

mlmp08 posted:

Yeah, cause it isn�t. And anyone who thought North Korea was disarming or denuclearizing is an idiot.

However, failed diplomatic efforts or misrepresented outcomes on the part of the US admin shouldn�t be used to say diplomacy is impossible. I�m sure plenty of hawks will do just that, though.

It should definitely be used to say "We were right that Trump getting involved at all would either lead to no change or make things worse."

# ? Jul 31, 2018 19:17

coathat: May 21, 2007

Hey guys things haven�t changed before any agreement has been made. Huge gently caress up by Trump.

# ? Jul 31, 2018 19:29

GABA ghoul: Oct 29, 2011

coathat posted:

Hey guys things haven’t changed before any agreement has been made. Huge gently caress up by Trump.

any day now, don't lose hope. thoughs and prayers :pray:

# ? Jul 31, 2018 19:53

Majorian: Jul 1, 2009

mlmp08 posted:

Yeah, cause it isn�t. And anyone who thought North Korea was disarming or denuclearizing is an idiot.

However, failed diplomatic efforts or misrepresented outcomes on the part of the US admin shouldn�t be used to say diplomacy is impossible. I�m sure plenty of hawks will do just that, though.

Holding Minuteman III tests today probably doesn't help. Even though these tests are scheduled months or years in advance, it might have been wise to, uh, postpone this one.

# ? Jul 31, 2018 20:19

mlmp08: Jul 11, 2004; Prepare for my priapic projectile's exalted penetration; Nap Ghost

Minuteman tests have near-nothing to do with the DPRK beyond being something they will complain about.

# ? Jul 31, 2018 20:22

Majorian: Jul 1, 2009

mlmp08 posted:

Minuteman tests have near-nothing to do with the DPRK beyond being something they will complain about.

That is precisely why holding those tests is a bad idea: because things that make future disarmament talks less likely to happen are bad.

# ? Jul 31, 2018 21:55

mlmp08: Jul 11, 2004; Prepare for my priapic projectile's exalted penetration; Nap Ghost

Majorian posted:

That is precisely why holding those tests is a bad idea: because things that make future disarmament talks less likely to happen are bad.

That�s not what the tests are about. That�s like saying US soldiers in Germany shouldn�t train, because it�s a threat to the DPRK. Has almost zero bearing on the DPRK beyond them grumbling about it when they feel like it and ignoring it when it serves them.

Flying bombers over to the peninsula? Sure, that�s a show of force/readiness aimed at the DPRK, no pun intended.

# ? Jul 31, 2018 22:25

Majorian: Jul 1, 2009

mlmp08 posted:

That�s not what the tests are about. That�s like saying US soldiers in Germany shouldn�t train, because it�s a threat to the DPRK. Has almost zero bearing on the DPRK beyond them grumbling about it when they feel like it and ignoring it when it serves them.

The grumbling's what I'm talking about, though. I'd rather not give hardliners in North Korea a propaganda talking point about why diplomacy with the U.S. won't work.

# ? Jul 31, 2018 23:05

mlmp08: Jul 11, 2004; Prepare for my priapic projectile's exalted penetration; Nap Ghost

Just as the DPRK would be stupid to refuse to build or test deterrent weapons because it might make the US grumble, the US would be stupid to forego tests and modernization of its strategic nuclear force because the DPRK might grumble.

# ? Jul 31, 2018 23:07

Majorian: Jul 1, 2009

Who's talking about foregoing, though? The U.S. postponed tests back in February because of the Olympics. Like I said earlier, I think this would have been a good set of tests to postpone as well.

# ? Jul 31, 2018 23:14

Some Guy TT: Aug 30, 2011

What exactly do Minuteman III missiles do anyway? How are they any better than the missiles we already have?

# ? Aug 1, 2018 03:56

Vincent Van Goatse: Nov 8, 2006; Enjoy every sandwich.; Smellrose

Some Guy TT posted:

What exactly do Minuteman III missiles do anyway? How are they any better than the missiles we already have?

Minuteman IIIs are the missiles we already have. They've been in service in one form or another since 1970.

Vincent Van Goatse fucked around with this message at 04:03 on Aug 1, 2018

# ? Aug 1, 2018 04:01

Some Guy TT: Aug 30, 2011

OK, um, then forgive my ignorance on the subject but...why are we testing them then? Are we worried that they don't work anymore or something?

# ? Aug 1, 2018 04:09

mlmp08: Jul 11, 2004; Prepare for my priapic projectile's exalted penetration; Nap Ghost

Some Guy TT posted:

OK, um, then forgive my ignorance on the subject but...why are we testing them then? Are we worried that they don't work anymore or something?

Partially that, plus testing out the components we've replaced or improved over the years as things reach expiration or obsolescence.

# ? Aug 1, 2018 04:11

Bip Roberts: Mar 29, 2005

Some Guy TT posted:

What exactly do Minuteman III missiles do anyway? How are they any better than the missiles we already have?

this:

but +1

# ? Aug 1, 2018 04:18

Majorian: Jul 1, 2009

Some Guy TT posted:

OK, um, then forgive my ignorance on the subject but...why are we testing them then? Are we worried that they don't work anymore or something?

Yeah, building off what mlmp08 said, the idea is to make sure that the U.S.' nuclear deterrent is still reliable. Deterrence only works if the thing you're trying to deter a strategic adversary with, you know, actually works. So the Air Force tests its (unarmed) missiles pretty frequently. It just sometimes chooses to postpone those tests, if it's a geopolitically bad time.

# ? Aug 1, 2018 07:11

Some Guy TT: Aug 30, 2011

Good to know. It's mind-boggling sometimes how many military tests this country conducts with normal citizens only ever hearing about them thirdhand because they indirectly relate to other issues.

Anyway, let's talk about something different- the weather. You all may or may not be aware that there is a heat wave in Korea right now. What's less well publicized is that the intensity of the weather has been bad enough that crops are failing, and prices for common vegetables have been spiking.

Given the frequency with which we see it asserted that North Korea is on the brink of collapse, I was curious whether any similar negative effects were being felt on the northern side of the DMZ. This article from The Daily NK was about the only commentary I could find on the subject-

quote:

Unification Media Group (UMG): Welcome to the weekly news rundown from North Korea. Today we�re here speaking again with reporter Kang Mi Jin. What do you have for us today?

Kang Mi Jin (Kang): North Korea, like the rest of the region, is experiencing a serious heat wave. Yesterday in the South Hamgyong Province city of Hamju, temperatures reached 37 degrees, and the entire east coast has been enveloped by the hot weather. Even places that are relatively cool in North Korea, like Ryanggang Province, have recorded temperatures of 30 degrees. When it gets this warm, people search for nice, refreshing areas, and according to our North Korean sources, it means people throughout the country are heading to the valleys and swimming in the rivers to cool themselves off.

In these times, local Ministry of People�s Security (police) units and schools are busy keeping the citizens informed about the dangerous conditions. In the countryside, it�s the height of weed-pulling season so the residents use their lunch hours to go to the rivers, reservoirs and valleys to cool off. The regional security offices focus on maintaining order and preventing accidents, which occasionally occur.

UMG: Here in South Korea we are experiencing the heatwave as well. While we are all doing what we can to beat the heat, is there anything in particular the North Koreans like to eat in this weather?

Kang: The other day I was in contact with a North Korean citizen who told me that naengmyon (cold buckwheat noodles) and ice cream have been selling very well in the markets. Also, it�s a common sight to see people selling watermelons that have been chilled in tubs of ice water. Some people have been putting them through blenders at home, mixing them with strawberries and ice to make a refreshing treat.

Some of the vendors with freezers have been making popsicles and ice cream to sell at the markets. As little as 1-2 years ago, many were grumbling that there wasn�t enough electricity to keep ice frozen long enough to keep a business running, but now with the proliferation of solar panels, the electricity generated at homes has gone a long way in addressing this problem.

UMG: North Koreans like to cool down with naengmyeon and ice cream just like South Koreans do. Fruit is another good food for the hot weather. What kinds of fruit do North Koreans eat in the summer?

Kang: I was told on the phone that watermelons are very popular, and when I asked how they are getting along in the heat, my contact told me that they had just eaten watermelon right before talking on the phone.

The people who have refrigerators in their homes can eat fruits and save them for later, and even people without fridges at home can get ice at the market and fill a basin with water to chill the watermelon in. Blueberries can also be put in bowls of ice and eaten as a cool treat. A woman in Ryanggang Province told me that she bought an apple at the market and then put it in the freezer for a day before eating it frozen. She said it was refreshing and delicious.

UMG: In the summer, it�s very important to eat healthily. The 17th was the first of the dog-days in North Korea, is there a traditional food for that day?

Kang: Yes it was �Cho-bok� the beginning of the dog days. These days people are going to restaurants to eat �boshintang� (dog stew). Not all North Koreans will wait in line at restaurants though � many prefer to make boshintang and other invigorating dishes at home. Every year, I survey the prices of certain items at the market, and the price of meat has gone up slightly this year.

Of course there are some slight variations on the summer health foods in the different regions, but boshintang is eaten throughout the country. In North Korea, restaurants have not become widely commercialized like in South Korea, so people more commonly eat in their own homes. In Ryanggang Province, people eat boshintang in the summer, and boiled chicken or rabbit soup in the spring and fall. In the winter, sticky rice cake with oil and eggs is most common.

UMG: In South Korea during the dog days of summer, people like to eat samgyetang (ginseng chicken soup). In North Korea, are there many types of meat available?

Kang: Yes, which naturally brings me back to the markets. These days, one can find dog, lamb and others types of meat at the markets, and the prices have been rising. In the past, even beef was difficult to find at the market and was not commonly sold. Now I am told by North Koreans that there�s more beef available.

Also, each household can purchase the particular kind of beef they prefer. As for other dishes, usually only the head of the family gets to eat boiled chicken, but for boshintang, the whole family eats it together.

Even under the scorching sun, vendors at markets across the country are diligently selling meat. According to sources in Kangwon Province, beef from grazing cattle is sent to Pyongyang and canned for distribution to children at the preschools and daycare centres.

Naturally, crime and corruption in the distribution process prevents some beef from reaching its final destination, but the situation has greatly improved compared to the past. My sources added that the amount of damaged beef on the daily markets has likely decreased. Of all the different types of meats commonly consumed in North Korea, beef is the highest quality.

UMG: You said that North Koreans have noticed a rise in beef prices at the markets as they shop for healthy foods. Has the price of fruit gone up as well?

Kang: According to my sources, watermelons these days sell from 7,000 KPW per kg. In Ryanggang Province, it is 7,560 KPW and in Pyongsong it is 7,470 KPW. Peaches are the most popular fruit sold in North Korea and at the production complex in Hoeryong they sell for 10,000 KPW, but in Ryanggang and other provinces they are about 1-2,000 KPW more expensive. In South Korea as well these days peaches are very popular and in North Korea peaches are available. In Ryanggang Province, 1 kg of peaches is 15,000 KPW.

UMG: Thanks for joining us today Mi Jin!

Apparently food distribution in North Korea has so vastly improved over the last few years that the difference easily offsets year-to-year harvest fluctuations. Which is good, if your concern is the welfare of the North Korean people. Not so good if you're looking for an excuse to destabilize the country.

# ? Aug 1, 2018 09:54

Grapplejack: Nov 27, 2007

I like that roadside watermelon is so universal.

# ? Aug 1, 2018 17:43

fishmech: Jul 16, 2006; by VideoGames; Salad Prong

Some Guy TT posted:

Good to know. It's mind-boggling sometimes how many military tests this country conducts with normal citizens only ever hearing about them thirdhand because they indirectly relate to other issues.

Your mind must be boggled by a lot of things, because it's hardly normal for militaries around the world to issue big reports about their testing regimes.

# ? Aug 2, 2018 05:19

Some Guy TT: Aug 30, 2011

And yet we are shocked, shocked to learn that absent a deal North Korea is continuing to produce intercontinental ballistic missiles and enriched uranium without sending out a press release first.

# ? Aug 2, 2018 05:42

fishmech: Jul 16, 2006; by VideoGames; Salad Prong

Some Guy TT posted:

And yet we are shocked, shocked to learn that absent a deal North Korea is continuing to produce intercontinental ballistic missiles and enriched uranium without sending out a press release first.

Who's shocked? I told you nothing of importance was going to change from all the non-agreements and Trump blustering.

# ? Aug 2, 2018 05:58

Some Guy TT: Aug 30, 2011

The Casablanca reference is lost on you. Somehow I'm not surprised.

# ? Aug 2, 2018 06:43

fishmech: Jul 16, 2006; by VideoGames; Salad Prong

Some Guy TT posted:

The Casablanca reference is lost on you. Somehow I'm not surprised.

That's not even a half decent reference dude. You just seem mad that you didn't know 40 plus year old devices need testing.

# ? Aug 2, 2018 06:51

Some Guy TT: Aug 30, 2011

The most iconic joke of the most iconic movie of all the time isn't even half a decent reference? I might be able to take that comment more seriously if it weren't for the anime avatar.

# ? Aug 2, 2018 07:01

fishmech: Jul 16, 2006; by VideoGames; Salad Prong

Some Guy TT posted:

The most iconic joke of the most iconic movie of all the time isn't even half a decent reference? I might be able to take that comment more seriously if it weren't for the anime avatar.

I might be able to take you seriously if you were not confused about daring to test 47 year old rockets

# ? Aug 2, 2018 07:18

Furia: Jul 26, 2015; Grimey Drawer

Some Guy TT posted:

The Casablanca reference is lost on you. Somehow I'm not surprised.

Hi someone without an anime avatar here

Who cares?

# ? Aug 2, 2018 09:10

mlmp08: Jul 11, 2004; Prepare for my priapic projectile's exalted penetration; Nap Ghost

Furia posted:

Hi someone without an anime avatar here

Who cares?

Exactly one person on Earth.

# ? Aug 2, 2018 12:50

Some Guy TT: Aug 30, 2011

I can't tell whether you all are showing solidarity with fishmech over his inability to detect sarcasm or his ignorance about classic memes. But either way it's telling that this is the statement which encourages you to post, rather than the story I posted about living conditions in North Korea during a drought.

# ? Aug 2, 2018 12:56

mlmp08: Jul 11, 2004; Prepare for my priapic projectile's exalted penetration; Nap Ghost

I think one of your problems is that you misunderstand disregard for your posting as disregard for people in Korea or the peninsula at large.

Thinking your posting is bad doesn�t mean someone wishes ill for Korean people and their future.

# ? Aug 2, 2018 12:58

Some Guy TT: Aug 30, 2011

Yes, my terrible posting that involves firsthand experience regarding domestic South Korean politics and the posting of serious English language articles often written by people opposed to the regime and making fun of fishmech. Clearly those don't hold a candle to the enlightenment your posts have brought the thread.

# ? Aug 2, 2018 13:02

Furia: Jul 26, 2015; Grimey Drawer

Some Guy TT posted:

Yes, my terrible posting that involves firsthand experience regarding domestic South Korean politics and the posting of serious English language articles often written by people opposed to the regime and making fun of fishmech. Clearly those don't hold a candle to the enlightenment your posts have brought the thread.

mlmp08 posted:

Thinking your posting is bad doesn�t mean someone wishes ill for Korean people and their future.

Also you seem significantly more upset about posting than about the lives of the people you claim to defend, so maybe evaluate your actions a little bit more next time

# ? Aug 2, 2018 13:26

Some Guy TT: Aug 30, 2011

I posted an article about the living conditions of the North Korean people which you all ignored. You're the one who started this dumbass conversation by defending fishmech for outing himself as an ignoramous.

# ? Aug 2, 2018 13:34

Tesseraction: Apr 5, 2009

Some Guy TT posted:

Apparently food distribution in North Korea has so vastly improved over the last few years that the difference easily offsets year-to-year harvest fluctuations. Which is good, if your concern is the welfare of the North Korean people. Not so good if you're looking for an excuse to destabilize the country.

I am curious about how the heatwave has affected crops, given over here in the west we've seen early yields or dying crops. Obviously a journalist wouldn't up front go "yeah we're loving dying over here, buddy" so I wonder if they'll be fine down the line.

# ? Aug 2, 2018 13:54

Some Guy TT: Aug 30, 2011

One thing that surprised me about the article was how positive the tone was. Usually The Daily NK is a lot more grim than that. They seem to have tempered their message lately. For a sense of perspective, these articles are far more typical of The Daily NK's line.

Excessive heat wave wreaking havoc on residents and crops

Bribe-hungry North Korean authorities await reunions for separated families

# ? Aug 2, 2018 14:07

Red and Black: Sep 5, 2011

mlmp08 posted:

Thinking your posting is bad doesn�t mean someone wishes ill for Korean people and their future.

Your posting is 90% credulously reposting think tank wonks. Glass houses, stones, etc

# ? Aug 2, 2018 14:13

Furia: Jul 26, 2015; Grimey Drawer

Some Guy TT posted:

I posted an article about the living conditions of the North Korean people which you all ignored. You're the one who started this dumbass conversation by defending fishmech for outing himself as an ignoramous.

Maybe using American culture on a multinational forum to determine people�s worth makes you a bad person, I dunno

Decolonize how you assign value to people

# ? Aug 2, 2018 14:14

Tesseraction: Apr 5, 2009

Some Guy TT posted:

One thing that surprised me about the article was how positive the tone was. Usually The Daily NK is a lot more grim than that. They seem to have tempered their message lately. For a sense of perspective, these articles are far more typical of The Daily NK's line.

Excessive heat wave wreaking havoc on residents and crops

Ah, that's the kind of thing I was wondering about. Corn crops are drying out, which I have a feeling are going to cause knock-on effects in the winter months.

Part of the cruel irony of climate change that even the smaller polluters have to eat poo poo.

# ? Aug 2, 2018 14:25

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# ? May 21, 2024 22:04

coathat: May 21, 2007

The planned marital law response to the candlight protests that�s come out recently is some wild poo poo.

# ? Aug 2, 2018 14:39

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