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That rule is more about making another vampire drink at the source - so they get blood bound - during blood-sex play than just pushing someone to go farther than they initially intended. I mean, it's not raping mortals in normal sex, it's about using your sexy talents to turn a peer into your slave during an intimate moment. And yeah, the book spends a page talking about that. It probably came up enough during Swedish Dracula's playthroughs that they felt necessary to put a rule in.
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Aug 4, 2018 13:28
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15-th Generation vampires are human enough that they can have children, creating half-vampire kids who work mostly like Revenants. Kindred of the East can be close enough to living by going full Yang that they can have half-vampire children with weird luck powers.
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Aug 4, 2018 14:04
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ZearothK posted:
Ah, the New Bremen Technique.
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Aug 4, 2018 15:08
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Also aside from all this gross poo poo they've just made the world really...dull. The Sabbat and Camarilla got a pressure washer taken to them to smooth out any interesting bits. Sabbat's back to 1st edition 'ooooh evil spooky vamps in the shadows of the shadows' stuff, Camarilla is just a renamed Invictus from Requiem with no real agenda other than 'get power because power is good and we want power', the Anarchs seem to have no personality and are just generic footsoldiers now. They also got rid of like, 99% of the elders with some terribly dull plot stuff, so if you thought metaplot stuff got dull and constrictive at times good news we're just gonna be doing VtR 'everyone's a young vampire' stuff anyway.
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Aug 4, 2018 15:19
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The more I read of 5E, the more I think 'man, I do not care about Swedracula's home game.'
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Aug 4, 2018 16:12
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Dawgstar posted:The more I read of 5E, the more I think 'man, I do not care about Swedracula's home game.' oh man that's exactly what it feels like, yea. Gross poo poo aside so much just feels like 'well for MY campaign this is what we did' with very little actual thought for broader use.
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Aug 4, 2018 16:31
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Nessus posted:I think Requiem says that your character can only experience echoes of the emotions they remember experiencing in life and their entire period of undeath is merely a hellish preamble to their rightful demise and/or their eternal parasitic existence, but I guess maybe they walk that back a little considering all the other books and poo poo. The whole "vampires only feel echoes of the emotions they remember from life" thing was in the Requiem 1e core book, but was effectively ignored and walked back by most of the supplements, and in Requiem 2e it's explicitly no longer true.
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Aug 4, 2018 17:01
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ZearothK posted:That rule is more about making another vampire drink at the source - so they get blood bound - during blood-sex play than just pushing someone to go farther than they initially intended. Wut. So wait, the idea here is that vampires are regularly boning/drinking from one another to the point that you need rules mechanics to adjudicate this kind of poo poo? Swedracula really is every creeper that shows up in LARPs and online games, isn't he?
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Aug 4, 2018 18:31
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Zereth posted:Vampires caring enough about sex to have opinions on condom use in the first place feels weird to me. It's not that. The section is 'vampires might use Blood play to mimic the urges that they had as a mortal since the Kiss is euphoria, smart vampires do things to mitigate the bond, other vampires might use it to enforce the blood bond. if you want to fake drinking from someone or entice/fake/manipulate someone into drinking from you during this intimate act, here are the dice rolls for that'. Y'know, manipulative vampire poo poo. The whole 'raincoat' thing is the euphemism that's used for 'protected from the Blood bond' in that section. It's certainly WRITTEN like a safe sex guide, because that's what it essentially is. That doesn't make it necessary, but the blood and sexual metaphor has been a staple of VtM's fiction forever. It's also not even an entire page. It's probably about half a page when not in 3-column and not stuck next to 'here's the effects of drugs in blood on vampires'. MoonKnight fucked around with this message at 19:04 on Aug 4, 2018 |
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Aug 4, 2018 19:00
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I wish I had the courage to go to bat for the game having rules specifically for coercive sexual dynamics for this company which intended to stick the section on player comfort in another book altogether and which is meant to be used to inform LARPs. 
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Aug 4, 2018 19:59
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Wasn't there a recent VtM LARP with a disclaimer along the lines of "if you don't like someone forcing themselves on you, probably don't bother coming"?
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Aug 4, 2018 20:19
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It's always been weird to me that the Requiem 2e fiction describes the Daeva's hollow indulgence in "blood, sex, [and] food they have to puke up later" because Vampires can't eat or gently caress without the Blush of life, which costs blood to activate. I actually like the idea of a Vampire rolling up to a Waffle House and ordering the All-Star Special because he wants to pretend for a little while that his cursed immortal hunger can be satisfied by a waffle, toast, two eggs and his choice of bacon sausage or country ham, but you need to expend more Vitae to try and pointlessly fool yourself like that, which means more hunting, which means more Feeding which is supposedly the ACTUAL true orgasmic pleasure of a vampire. I suppose that the game is prompting moral questions of 'Is it worth dealing one Lethal damage to a random stranger so that you can find out if these new Fried Pickles with Ranch flavored potato chips are any good, or to spare someone the blood loss but drift further away from humanity as you forget what eating human food is like', but I feel like going full "We are cursed men, Miss Turner, drink will not satisfy, food turns to ash in our mouths, and all the women in the world cannot slake our lust.", and then making Feeding the most pleasurable thing in the world, and THEN making you expend blood to try the unsatisfying sex/food thing was a little much. Downward Spiral and all that, I suppose.
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Aug 4, 2018 20:25
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Foglet posted:Wasn't there a recent VtM LARP with a disclaimer along the lines of "if you don't like someone forcing themselves on you, probably don't bother coming"? No it was "If you do not want to see people potentially being intimate, then don't come". End of Line, and Enlightenment of Blood had very specific "Tap out" rules, so anyone can remove themselves from a scene they were not comfortable with. Likewise V5 has the chronicle tenets which allows you to calibrate the game, and so for your gaming group, establish what are hard lines, and what are veils.
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Aug 4, 2018 20:31
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dr_ether posted:No it was "If you do not want to see people potentially being intimate, then don't come". End of Line, and Enlightenment of Blood had very specific "Tap out" rules, so anyone can remove themselves from a scene they were not comfortable with. quote:The organizers did a good job of trying to alleviate concerns around consent in the pre-game social media groups, assuring us that we could exit any scene without repercussion and that actions such as feeding would happen slowly, from the front, and with plenty of opportunity to tap-out. In practice, this rule was not always followed. edit: I was thinking about a different LARP anyway, will try and find the exact quote. Foglet fucked around with this message at 20:41 on Aug 4, 2018 |
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Aug 4, 2018 20:35
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I remember the good times when Requiem 2e's Daeva write-up was considered puerile and ill-advised.
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Aug 4, 2018 20:35
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Foglet posted:https://nordiclarp.org/2016/03/21/end-line-white-wolfs-first-official-nordic-style-larp/ The lovely way the entire thing was handled did cause a number of longstanding LARP groups to distance themselves from WW, assuming my memory is right.
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Aug 4, 2018 20:50
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Ironslave posted:The lovely way the entire thing was handled did cause a number of longstanding LARP groups to distance themselves from WW, assuming my memory is right. CCP did some pretty serious damage to the LARP scene too by attempting to claim ownership of everyone's characters.
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Aug 4, 2018 20:59
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Sion posted:CCP did some pretty serious damage to the LARP scene too by attempting to claim ownership of everyone's characters. Oh, wow. I'd forgotten about that. Is that what caused the Camarilla to split? (Although they tried something equally bone-headed if I remember.)
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Aug 4, 2018 21:01
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Dawgstar posted:Oh, wow. I'd forgotten about that. Is that what caused the Camarilla to split? (Although they tried something equally bone-headed if I remember.) Yup.
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Aug 4, 2018 21:11
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dr_ether posted:No it was "If you do not want to see people potentially being intimate, then don't come". End of Line, and Enlightenment of Blood had very specific "Tap out" rules, so anyone can remove themselves from a scene they were not comfortable with. I realize you have a brand to protect but this thread dates back to February 2016, around page 160 or so. Requiring players to send in head shots to be 'cast' and having to have basic coercive dynamics explained to Swedracula was considered creepy at the time, much less after people were assaulted from behind without consent.
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Aug 5, 2018 00:54
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So I want to note, unrelated to all this, Onyx Path put out their pamphlet and it included an incredibly bizarre property. That property is Legendlore. Which is a comic from the 80s and 90s. It...exists. It's stock D&D fantasy but with college students going through a portal and becoming D&D characters. I desperately need to know the story behind it because, uh... http://www.caliber-entertainment.com/legendlore.html quote:Brief Description: A fantasy world made up of goblins, orcs, elves, trolls, dragons, and of course humans. The focus is on the great ones of all of these races and the legendary actions of them and how they shaped the land of Azoth. That this exists at all is slightly baffling. That it has a slot machine is more baffling. Because it definitely exists, but it's worthless - 2 bucks for near mint. I need to know the story here. Who approached who about this? How is this an Onyx Path thing that is happening? Because it is definitely happening.
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Aug 5, 2018 01:16
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I have to admit, it feels like it would be easier to just invent your own isekai setting. I could do it in thirty seconds. The most likely option is that this is a really good way to get a bunch of art for cheap, much like how Eos based their wuxia RPG on Weapons of the Gods in order to get easy access to Tony Wong art.
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Aug 5, 2018 01:36
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Someone mentioned elsewhere that one of the main dudes who did art for it back in the day -also- is a major supplier for Onyx Path art, so it may well be that, yeah.
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Aug 5, 2018 01:52
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Peep the art credits. Guy Davis is one of the artists, who does/did work for WoD and BPRD. I'd wager he's pushing this forward or someone is using him as a contact to get this made.
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Aug 5, 2018 03:11
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So it's basically the D&D cartoon from the 80's? I'm down.
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Aug 5, 2018 05:24
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Alright, so after some debate following the previous session, my Mage players have decided that they are okay with splitting the party for one or two sessions. One half has been turned into children by Paradox and then chased into the Spirit world, and the other half is trying to retrieve them and undo the spell before all of the various time travel effects run out and maybe(?) trap the first half as children forever, irrevocably loving up the timeline. I have a lot of good ideas on what I can do in the real world, since I’ve got a fairly fleshed-out cast of characters and a variety of plot threads to tug on, but I’m completely at a loss for what to do with the children in the spirit world. What would be a fun thing to throw at a party of eight-year-olds who have been ripped from their ordinary lives in the past, had their heads crammed full of Supernal knowledge, and shoved into a world made of ephemeral entities with no real way out?
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Aug 5, 2018 06:45
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blastron posted:What would be a fun thing to throw at a party of eight-year-olds who have been ripped from their ordinary lives in the past, had their heads crammed full of Supernal knowledge, and shoved into a world made of ephemeral entities with no real way out? Have each one of the characters send the players through a short mystery play/spirit quest of their childhood fantasies ie "when I was 8 I wanted to be a veterinarian" turns into a child's interpretation of a vets office populated with spirits who have to be bargained with in their vet office roles: "I am the big scary dog, you have to give me a shot so I can feel all better, but I'm so scary!" Have the challenges flavoured to reflect to their favored arcana. Let the character's player run each mini-scenario if you want to be more improvy about it.
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Aug 5, 2018 07:30
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blastron posted:What would be a fun thing to throw at a party of eight-year-olds who have been ripped from their ordinary lives in the past, had their heads crammed full of Supernal knowledge, and shoved into a world made of ephemeral entities with no real way out?
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Aug 5, 2018 07:45
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 Reprinting Gaiman's piece of text that he owns the copyright for is one fuckup, editing it to add an additional paragraph is a whole other level of 'what is publishing, why are we so bad at this'.
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Aug 5, 2018 11:35
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PST posted:
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Aug 5, 2018 11:42
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"The Gang gets sued by Neil Gaiman"
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Aug 5, 2018 12:14
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Yeah but to be fair Gaiman's always been super chill about who uses his stuff for different things and hasn't been known to hold decade and a half long bloodsports.
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Aug 5, 2018 12:14
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I'm glad Gaiman will take time out of his busy day to go 'wait what.'
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Aug 5, 2018 12:48
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Mors Rattus posted:So I want to note, unrelated to all this, Onyx Path put out their pamphlet and it included an incredibly bizarre property. Not only is it stock D&D fantasy, but they're doing it using the 5th edition dnd OGL. Which I mean, I get in terms of having a customer base, but I'm at a loss as to what exactly this setting does isn't accomplished by people picking up their 5th edition books and going "Your PCs are you transported to the forgotten realms" or whatever.
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Aug 5, 2018 14:08
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Mors Rattus posted:So I want to note, unrelated to all this, Onyx Path put out their pamphlet and it included an incredibly bizarre property. I am still trying to figure out what "diverse group of 'ethnic race' characters can create an ensemble cast" even means.
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Aug 5, 2018 14:38
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PST posted:
You know, I instantly recognized that part when browsing the book. Speaking of browsing the book, I think I am ready to pass a verdict. I can't help but feel that I am being more critical than I should, but Swedish Dracula's mishandling of the property set the stage for it. Some of the art and protographs are good, but I feel as a whole it is very inconsistent, which weakens the book. Also some of the pictures are just funny, unintentionally so. Three column layout is just bad. Writing seems very concerned with style, actually I'd say this edition feels more superficial than previous ones, and it feels there's more pagespace dedicated to the aesthetics of being a vampire than to the themes and tone. It is clear Swedish Dracula has a specific vision for the game and indulged a lot of word-count for it, but it is a superficial vision in my opinion and carries a lot of cultural references that will become dated in short order and some weak rear end attempts at being edgy. In terms of mechanics, I like it. It is a clear improvement on V20, though not much in relation to Requiem, which is a given how much they cribbed from Requiem's rules. The new disciplines are better than Masquerade's previous editions, but I prefer the more open and powerful discipline's of Requiem's second edition, but I acknowledge that's up to taste. I really like the new humanity system (where both players and GM determine a set of rules, so you can tune your game from anything between Superhero with Fangs to Melodramatic Drama Fangs), and I also like Hunger (and the messy critical and failure rules) better than blood points, and I can see myself hacking both those system to Requiem when I next run it. Blood potency tied to generation is another good implementation, though I'm suspect here, given it is almost identical to my homebrew rules on the subject. Character creation is also a clear improvement, special kudos to the predator archetypes and the coterie creation. I am a bit hesitant on flaws having a point value because back in the day I played with people who would abuse that system, but there's a pretty good selection of merits, flaws and backgrounds. So yeah, in general, the rules are nice, though there's some odd stuff like combat being super-simplified (which is a good thing, IMO) while there are specific rules for vampires licking each other's blood and then forcing the other to drink at the source and get a blood bond. For the fluff, well. I kind of turned around on the Second Inquisition being a thing, I like them as an antagonist and they fit the surveillance state, but them taking out every vampire in London and destroying the Vienna Chantry stretches credibility. It is interesting to have vampire society even more secretive and the Camarilla even more exclusionary, but then you have almost every elder and most of the Sabbat travelling to the the Middle East and Central Asia, which really weakens some of the elements that made Masquerade distinct from Requiem. Now Camarilla is just the Invictus, Sabbat is Belial's Brood and the Anarchs are a less interesting version of the 1E Carthian Movement. I can see supplements - specially the ones produced by OPP - backpedalling from this presentation of the setting. Tangential to this and in constrast with the above, I also like the Loresheets, which are essentially merit sets that connect PC's to the metaplot and established characters. There's a good selection (and I appreciate the nod to Bloodlines), it is one of the things that feel the most like "Masquerade, but updated" and I imagine every supplement will have a good number of them, letting players choose which metaplot elements they want to bring to the game. It is good stuff. All in all, I think this edition is actually a significant step forward in terms of rules, but there are significant issues with presentation. It also feels that we're getting less with this book, Vampire Revised had all 13 clans, their sects, disciplines and several thaumaturgical paths, as well as a lot of setting info. V20 had pretty much everything. This one has the Seven Clans and Caitiff and a very open setting - which I already have with Requiem. I don't think this edition is a mistake, and it might even grow to be good as it matures through supplements, but there are several caveats at the moment. ZearothK fucked around with this message at 15:12 on Aug 5, 2018 |
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Aug 5, 2018 15:10
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ZearothK posted:All in all, I think this edition is actually a significant step forward in terms of rules, but there are significant issues with presentation. It also feels that we're getting less with this book, Vampire Revised had all 13 clans, their sects, disciplines and several thaumaturgical paths, as well as a lot of setting info. V20 had pretty much everything. This one has the Seven Clans and Caitiff and a very open setting - which I already have with Requiem. I don't think this edition is a mistake, and it might even grow to be good as it matures through supplements, but there are several caveats at the moment. This is a good review, and though I like a bit more of the art than you seem to, it's very along my lines of thinking (also there's a lot of implications with at least London from BJD assuming those plot threads move forward at all). Also, the getting less is, at least from what devs have said on Facebook and other locations, on purpose. The core is meant to be the baseline and establish the setting 'focus' and then books expand outward from there. It also makes it more accessible to new players in their attempt to grow the base (I can't count the number of times players went 'Well, this is in the core book, why can't I play it in your Camarilla game?' when playing in the Revised era). Plus with the major setting changes (particularly to the Sabbat and the Gehenna Crusade), it would be a LOT more page count to include enough to make that a functioning playstyle within the core book. I'm actually okay with this, as it lets me go 'Okay, here's the core' and not have to fight with a lot of excess, and then I can plunk down the Sabbat book and go 'Okay, here...' and go forward with the Sabbat's particulars.
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Aug 5, 2018 15:31
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What’s the Bloodlines nod?
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Aug 5, 2018 16:08
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Basic Chunnel posted:What’s the Bloodlines nod? The Malkavian intro is a monologue between Therese and Jeannette. There's also a loresheet to open a branch of her club. I got a chance to play 5e at gencon and picked up the book, I'm still at the con so a review will have to wait. ritorix fucked around with this message at 16:19 on Aug 5, 2018 |
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Aug 5, 2018 16:14
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Basic Chunnel posted:What’s the Bloodlines nod? There's an Therese/Jeanette loresheet, the Asylum nightclub is now a franchise and you can use the loresheet to be a VIP member, own your own club or have the sisters as allies/mentors. Like I said, the Lore Sheets work as a way of having players go "Okay, I want this metaplot thing to be part of our game" and I feel it fits very well with Masquerade's strengths. MoonKnight posted:This is a good review, and though I like a bit more of the art than you seem to, it's very along my lines of thinking (also there's a lot of implications with at least London from BJD assuming those plot threads move forward at all). Also, the getting less is, at least from what devs have said on Facebook and other locations, on purpose. The core is meant to be the baseline and establish the setting 'focus' and then books expand outward from there. It also makes it more accessible to new players in their attempt to grow the base (I can't count the number of times players went 'Well, this is in the core book, why can't I play it in your Camarilla game?' when playing in the Revised era). I get that and it's fair to a point, but that gets confused with the messaging of wanting to appeal to veterans who have been with the line for decades. I do expect Camarilla and Sabbat play to be better enabled when their books are released, but it all still feels barebone to me, and this is a 400+ pages book. Revised did more with a hundred less pages.
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Aug 5, 2018 16:20
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