|
Kith posted:Hey guys take a look at this here effortpost I made about Tychus. I'll be doing similar review/reworks for Gazlowe and Kerrigan after I (finally) finish the art requests that I got from this thread. If anyone is interested in scoping a rough draft and providing preliminary feedback, shoot me a PM or something. Those sounds like fun changes for tychus. He's never felt quite right to me after they nerfed him hard when he was meta. I dont like the lose of baseline knockback on the grenade though. The knockback makes the grenade fun to use rather than just a generic nuke you toss out on cooldown. I think I'd rather see grenade damage lowered or something and keep the baseline knockback.
|
#
?
Aug 13, 2018 20:05
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 11, 2024 09:46 |
|
|
Pulled this from yesterday's Gazlowe game, just an absurd amount of knockback on Blaze. Junk's mine, then Yrel hammer, then Stukov arm. https://clips.twitch.tv/HeadstrongHeartlessLapwingVoteYea extremely "MAKE HIM TASTE THE CURB, HE WANTS TO TASTE THE CURB" feelings on this play Nybble fucked around with this message at 20:17 on Aug 13, 2018 |
|
#
?
Aug 13, 2018 20:13
|
|
|
Nybble posted:Pulled this from yesterday's Gazlowe game, just an absurd amount of knockback on Blaze. Junk's mine, then Yrel hammer, then Stukov arm. https://clips.twitch.tv/HeadstrongHeartlessLapwingVoteYea That was a magnificent play. Every time it looked like he was going to escape, someone else knocked him back again. And they did it without breaking the wall, too.
|
|
#
?
Aug 13, 2018 20:15
|
|
|
Orthodox Rabbit posted:Those sounds like fun changes for tychus. He's never felt quite right to me after they nerfed him hard when he was meta.  Grenade knockback is too good to give up and it's a defined part of the Tychus experience at the moment, at least. Hitting a hero back into your firing line and chasing them with Overkill once they run is almost as satisfying as hitting the big red button
|
|
#
?
Aug 13, 2018 21:10
|
|
|
Kyrosiris posted:Glossing over literally everything else, Deal With It is brilliantly named and iconed, given the effect. I'm glad you noticed, that's the one I put the most work into  Orthodox Rabbit posted:Those sounds like fun changes for tychus. He's never felt quite right to me after they nerfed him hard when he was meta. Thank you! quote:I dont like the lose of baseline knockback on the grenade though. The knockback makes the grenade fun to use rather than just a generic nuke you toss out on cooldown. I think I'd rather see grenade damage lowered or something and keep the baseline knockback. Bogart posted:
That's why I put in Concussive Blast at Level 1. Run and Gun/Dash is already getting a pretty big buff by having its Mana Cost go from 50 to 25, something that effectively replaces Tychus' current Level 1 mobility talents as a baseline. If you want the knockback on the grenade, just take it as a talent.
|
|
#
?
Aug 13, 2018 21:38
|
|
|
You get so defensive about your reworks, it makes discussing them really unpleasant.
|
|
#
?
Aug 13, 2018 21:53
|
|
|
That wasn't rude at all though?
|
|
#
?
Aug 13, 2018 21:55
|
|
|
No Wave posted:You get so defensive about your reworks, it makes discussing them really unpleasant. Nothing about that was defensive, you weirdo
|
|
#
?
Aug 13, 2018 22:15
|
|
|
No Wave posted:You get so defensive about your reworks, it makes discussing them really unpleasant. Explaining a design decision is not getting defensive. Getting defensive would be saying that Orthodox Rabbit and Bogart are wrong for wanting to keep Frag Grenade's knockback as a baseline (which they're not). It's been a part of Tychus' kit since inception, so I can totally understand the viewpoint of wanting to keep it for tradition/gamefeel reasons. I just feel that, in the context of all of the other changes made in the rework to modernize Tychus' mechanics, keeping it as a baseline is giving Tychus too many nice things for free. At the same time, I also recognize that there are plenty of people who like it, so I kept it around as an option at Level 1, something I pointed that out not because I was upset, but because there have been a lot of people from my initial feedback sessions that missed it and I wanted to make sure they knew.
|
|
#
?
Aug 13, 2018 23:17
|
|
|
Kith posted:That's why I put in Concussive Blast at Level 1. Run and Gun/Dash is already getting a pretty big buff by having its Mana Cost go from 50 to 25, something that effectively replaces Tychus' current Level 1 mobility talents as a baseline. If you want the knockback on the grenade, just take it as a talent. From a fun perspective I think the grenade losing base-line knockback would really remove grenade as an interesting skill to use if you ended up taking a different talent at 1. It would feel pretty unsatisfying to use imo if you didn't take the knockback talent. Putting the knockback on a talent feels like one of those things months later they end up baking in because everyone just picked it anyways. To me at least it would be like putting the knockback on Jimmy's Q into a talent but buffing the damage. Sure it'd do more damage but you're moving the interesting part of the skill to a talent.
|
|
#
?
Aug 13, 2018 23:18
|
|
|
Oh man remember when tychus's auto attacks had a spinup and run+gun's main gimmick was that it spun up your minigun. I remember him feeling 10 times better after they changed him to jsut have a flat attack speed.
|
|
#
?
Aug 13, 2018 23:23
|
|
|
Yeah, but it was funny taking the AA talents and getting it charged up just to see the numbers fly out. Besides, if you were ever fighting the enemy team, you would just Odin for 3 healthbars anyway.
|
|
#
?
Aug 13, 2018 23:44
|
|
|
Orthodox Rabbit posted:From a fun perspective I think the grenade losing base-line knockback would really remove grenade as an interesting skill to use if you ended up taking a different talent at 1. It would feel pretty unsatisfying to use imo if you didn't take the knockback talent. Putting the knockback on a talent feels like one of those things months later they end up baking in because everyone just picked it anyways.
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2018 00:00
|
|
|
fool_of_sound posted:Nothing about that was defensive, you weirdo
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2018 00:09
|
|
|
Kith posted:I disagree about the "eventually baking in because everyone takes it" thing, especially since I put Bob and Weave at Level 1, but I do see where you're coming from about it feeling unsatisfying. How would you feel about it if the Grenade talent at Level 1 was increasing the knockback distance in addition to making the knockback affect Tychus as well? It think maybe its just that with your ideas the grenade as is without talents is a generic nuke you throw on cooldown without any real thought. So you're losing some of the interesting interactivity with one of his skills before your rework vs afterwards + needing to take a talent (even if overall the rework sounds really interesting). So maybe a knockback base-line isn't required, but something baked in baseline that gives the skill some kind of interesting mechanic without needing to take talents.
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2018 00:30
|
|
|
Keep the knockback and make the damage bonus the level 1 talent seems like a really easy solution.
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2018 01:01
|
|
|
Ort posted:Keep the knockback and make the damage bonus the level 1 talent seems like a really easy solution. Level 1 talents are mobility-themed, so that's not a solution at all. Orthodox Rabbit posted:It think maybe its just that with your ideas the grenade as is without talents is a generic nuke you throw on cooldown without any real thought. So you're losing some of the interesting interactivity with one of his skills before your rework vs afterwards + needing to take a talent (even if overall the rework sounds really interesting). So maybe a knockback base-line isn't required, but something baked in baseline that gives the skill some kind of interesting mechanic without needing to take talents. I'll just put it back and make the Concussive Blast talent increase the knockback and have it affect Tychus as well.
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2018 01:02
|
|
|
Kith posted:I'll just put it back and make the Concussive Blast talent increase the knockback and have it affect Tychus as well. I'm not trying to mess with your rework! Just speaking personally, I know I'd be bummed if grenade lost knockback (or some other kind of interaction) as a baseline thing without talents.
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2018 01:07
|
|
|
Orthodox Rabbit posted:I'm not trying to mess with your rework! Just speaking personally, I know I'd be bummed if grenade lost knockback (or some other kind of interaction) as a baseline thing without talents. Nah man, I posted it here (and elsewhere) because I wanted feedback. I got feedback, and the overwhelming majority was "please keep the knockback on the grenade", so I'm gonna change it. The arguments you made helped me reach that conclusion.
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2018 01:28
|
|
|
Enemies hit with the grenade now have a spin-up on their auto attacks for the next 10 seconds Lets see how they like it
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2018 01:53
|
|
|
An Attack Speed reduction that weakened with each Basic Attack would be a really interesting mechanic. It'd be perfect for a Zerg or Undead character.
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2018 01:57
|
|
|
If you make the grenade affect Tychus for movement, it could be used as a last-ditch juke. Could even go with it allowing him to dispel roots / slows on himself with a self-cast, but that might be a little op.
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2018 02:26
|
|
|
Bogart posted:If you make the grenade affect Tychus for movement, it could be used as a last-ditch juke. Could even go with it allowing him to dispel roots / slows on himself with a self-cast, but that might be a little op. What about a small enemy knockback + lesser self cleanse that removes root/slow effects? The dude is already plenty immobile.
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2018 02:34
|
|
|
Having a weaker baseline knockback that talents into a larger enemy and small self knockback would add some strategy to him. Having full on both would be a little much and kind of harp on Junkrat territory.
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2018 02:56
|
|
|
Bogart posted:If you make the grenade affect Tychus for movement, it could be used as a last-ditch juke. Yep! That's the reasoning behind Concussive Blast being on the Movement Tier. quote:Could even go with it allowing him to dispel roots / slows on himself with a self-cast, but that might be a little op. Relentless posted:Having a weaker baseline knockback that talents into a larger enemy and small self knockback would add some strategy to him. Having full on both would be a little much and kind of harp on Junkrat territory.
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2018 05:27
|
|
|
i'm gonna be honest kith i couldn't find the talents section at all oH. got it. sounds neat. I might even go full Xul and give him Sucker Punch as a very basic level one option, ala Body Check with Garrosh. e: Change "Nice Try, Idiot" to "Nice Try, Kid." Tychus is much more posi in HOTS. "Kiss that keep goodbye, jerks!" Bogart fucked around with this message at 06:20 on Aug 14, 2018 |
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2018 06:07
|
|
|
Thought I'd try not taking the Clemency at lvl1 for Whitemane...what a mistake. Relying on your team to actually attack is trouble. Literally had a Muradin who would just jump away from me the second Garrosh stepped up. Like yeah, thanks bud you really saved yourself there.
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2018 07:36
|
|
|
Bogart posted:i'm gonna be honest kith i couldn't find the talents section at all quote:sounds neat. I might even go full Xul and give him Sucker Punch as a very basic level one option, ala Body Check with Garrosh. On top of all that, since I'm trying to emulate HOTS' more modern character designs, the Talent Tiers of my reworks are crafted with a specific theme in mind. The Tychus Rework's Level 1 theme is "mobility", and "punch someone in the face" doesn't really fit that that. quote:e: Change "Nice Try, Idiot" to "Nice Try, Kid." Tychus is much more posi in HOTS. "Kiss that keep goodbye, jerks!"
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2018 07:55
|
|
|
Teach me how to Leoric, I'm level 6 with him, I'm mainly having trouble deciding when and how to wraithwalk, do I use it as soon as my team starts taking damage to absorb it? It's sometimes hard to do without dying needlessly.
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2018 09:21
|
|
|
Shibawanko posted:Teach me how to Leoric, I'm level 6 with him, I'm mainly having trouble deciding when and how to wraithwalk, do I use it as soon as my team starts taking damage to absorb it? It's sometimes hard to do without dying needlessly. I'm not the best leoric around but as long as you're blocking skillshots, draining their fatties health and slowing the enemy to a crawl you're doing something right. Wraithwalk use evolves during the match. Early it's mostly your disengage/reposition button, starting at 13 and peaking at 16 it becomes your engage as you'll want to neutralize as many damage dealers as you can with it and take advantage of the Q+E synergy. Note that they removed the talent that gave you armor during wraithwalk. I usually work with the following build: 1) Lifesteal on Q 4) More slow on Q (works when you're dead and pairs well with 13 and 16) Occasionally the extra range, depending on the comps 7) Range on W 10) Entomb if they lack easy escapes and your team can followup, March if you need the extra sustain 13) Wraith 16) WRAITH 20) Your pick but I love Spectral leech protip: queue with a Fenix buddy to get those massive purification salvos going.
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2018 10:18
|
|
|
Always W somewhere before you E away to get that extra bit of healing while you're channeling.
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2018 13:52
|
|
|
QuiZ! The strongest Varania ult is: A)Twink Blades B)Columbus Smash 3)Truant
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2018 15:52
|
|
|
Princess Talanji for HOTS, thank you in advance
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2018 16:01
|
|
|
Macaluso posted:Princess Talanji for HOTS, thank you in advance Her ults are summon ghost dinosaur and mist cannon barrage
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2018 17:43
|
|
|
WITCHCRAFT posted:QuiZ! The strongest Varania ult is: Twink Blades, as shown by talent popularity in my games.
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2018 19:29
|
|
|
This has not been a good season for Unranked, holy gently caress. All of my other seasons I've had 50%+, right now I'm sitting at 47%.
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2018 20:21
|
|
|
My Unranked has been great. 62% winrate overall 72% as assassin because I only play Cassia now.
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2018 20:33
|
|
|
How do you get that special Stukov NYET! emote??
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2018 20:44
|
|
|
fortunately, being a colossal piece of poo poo with lucio knows no winrate
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2018 21:14
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 11, 2024 09:46 |
|
|
HOTS seems insanely buggy and laggy today. Wonder if it’s the BFA launch? I just had a game that was lost 100% due to me lagging out during a critical rotation; by the time I had reconnected, my team was dead (and mad) and they snowballed us from there.
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2018 21:19
|
|
