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chiasaur11 posted:It would have been less damaging, but even what we got wasn't fatal. Andromeda, despite being composed entirely of warning signs, still probably sold 2 million plus copies. (Less than NieR: Automata, but still a decent number. ) ME3's ending was what it was but people still essentially liked Mass Effect. If they'd put out a game that was like 20% better then we'd probably be right at the end of the DLC cycle now and hearing rumblings about Andromeda 2
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Aug 16, 2018 00:51
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Andromeda's entire premise was cowardly and stupid so now I hope at least Bioware will have the Bioballs to do a proper continuation of the Mass Effect story, if they survive Anthem.
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Aug 16, 2018 00:54
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Toxic Fart Syndrome posted:That's what Saren said... Wrong, Saren wanted Synthesis. Control is the Illusive Man's idea.
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Aug 16, 2018 01:03
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Cythereal posted:Wrong, Saren wanted Synthesis. Control is the Illusive Man's idea. 
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Aug 16, 2018 01:24
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Actually it's harbinger's idea, he just put it in illusive man's head after indoctrinating him
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Aug 16, 2018 01:25
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A really cool alternative to Kai Leng is if they had brought back whomever you didn't save on Virmire as the antagonist, resurrected via the efforts of the indoctrinated Illusive Man with the help of some Reaper tech.
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Aug 16, 2018 01:37
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It's a little thing that amuses me. It's the good guys' plan that ends in genocide (of the Reapers, and of the geth if they're still around). But both villains from the series? They're basically right. Not in a way either one would have appreciated and neither one was capable of doing it, but they both have a basically sound idea and in some ways the Reapers genuinely are victims. The Catalyst is the real villain, and it gets its regardless of ending.
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Aug 16, 2018 01:37
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Rosalind posted:A really cool alternative to Kai Leng is if they had brought back whomever you didn't save on Virmire as the antagonist, resurrected via the efforts of the indoctrinated Illusive Man with the help of some Reaper tech. It'd be something, but it'd also kind of pull the rug out of the original scene, in which iirc both characters more or less beg to be the one you let die and only begrudgingly let you save them. I remember Kaiden being a real baby about it at least, I forget what Ashley's reaction was, probably something racist
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Aug 16, 2018 01:41
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Toxic Fart Syndrome posted:Agree. I also think MEA wouldn't have sold 250k if it didn't have ~MASS EFFECT~ slapped on the front. As a first outing, that would have been an embarrassment, as a fourth installment it literally killed a decade-old franchise that was being discussed at "the next Star Wars." It's a bit of a tangent, but man. Nier and Mass Effect 2 came out just a few months apart, and their sequels performed about how you'd expect from their performances, but if you told anyone in 2010 that, seven years on, Nier would get a sequel that sold hundreds of thousands more copies than that year's Mass Effect, no-one would believe you. Amazing how fast a series can crash and burn with a bad enough game. And amazing how well a smaller title can do with good word of mouth.
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Aug 16, 2018 01:45
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Ainsley McTree posted:It'd be something, but it'd also kind of pull the rug out of the original scene, in which iirc both characters more or less beg to be the one you let die and only begrudgingly let you save them. I remember Kaiden being a real baby about it at least, I forget what Ashley's reaction was, probably something racist No, Ashley wants to die a hero so her family's name can be redeemed. Shepard can call her out on that afterwards.
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Aug 16, 2018 01:52
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chiasaur11 posted:It's a bit of a tangent, but man. I feel like it wasn't just that though -- they made attempts to really flesh out the "expanded universe" part of it and completely blew it. Like, tie-in novels are usually not great, but ME's range from "bad" to "literally had a character 'cured' of autism and turned a gay character straight", the latter of which was so bad that it prompted them to promise they'd issue a corrected version, which they hilariously never did They had two mobile games and both were garbage The tie-in comics are barely a thing and the anime was bad, dude and I guess they randomly have a ride at an amusement park? basically anything Mass Effect-related that wasn't a 40+ hour long RPG was extremely bad and lame and if your job is to manage the #brand you'd be better off not doing any of them
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Aug 16, 2018 01:56
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You forgot "hilariously inaccurate on every page and had to be reprinted with better writing" on the tie-in novel scale. That was something special. Also Andromeda died regardless of its ME branding. Once word got out about it sales just dropped off a cliff and never recovered.
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Aug 16, 2018 02:38
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Neddy Seagoon posted:You forgot "hilariously inaccurate on every page and had to be reprinted with better writing" on the tie-in novel scale. That was something special. Oh yeah, they completely disregarded everything in-universe and canon and just... it was bad. So bad that I know about it and never read the books. Although they did some of that poo poo in ME2 and a LOT in ME3, but w/e. I saw people talking about Assassin's Creed earlier, is Origins or Odyssey(?) good? Last one I played was the one with the ships and the reveal that you're Connor whats-his-face's granddad. EDIT: Oh yeah I never finished ME:A. I got to the point where you learn about Meridian then kind of wandered off and never came back. This is after playing through ME1 and ME2 like six times each, and though I still blame the ending of ME3 for killing my enthusiasm ME:A killed my interest.
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Aug 16, 2018 03:19
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DarkHorse posted:Oh yeah, they completely disregarded everything in-universe and canon and just... it was bad. So bad that I know about it and never read the books. its 4. 4 is pretty good but it has alot of crap mechanics that they toss in the following games. Neddy Seagoon posted:You forgot "hilariously inaccurate on every page and had to be reprinted with better writing" on the tie-in novel scale. That was something special. pretty much. it reminds me alot of dead space 3. a great series, hosed to death by EA. its not even an awful game, its just hobbled by a ton of poo poo, i don't even hate the big twist because it kinda made sense and they were kinda hinting at it. but word of mouth killed the game sales too.
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Aug 16, 2018 03:28
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DarkHorse posted:Oh yeah, they completely disregarded everything in-universe and canon and just... it was bad. So bad that I know about it and never read the books. Origins was made by the same team as Black Flag (the pirate one) and owns bones. Odyssey also looks dope. They're just trying to rip off The Witcher at this point, which is turning the AssCreed series into Bioware's spiritual successor. Edit: like, seriously, the next AC looks like a Bioware game from 10 years ago! 
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Aug 16, 2018 03:28
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Dapper_Swindler posted:pretty much. it reminds me alot of dead space 3. a great series, hosed to death by EA. its not even an awful game, its just hobbled by a ton of poo poo, i don't even hate the big twist because it kinda made sense and they were kinda hinting at it. but word of mouth killed the game sales too. I don't mind Dead Space 3 to be honest. I quite like it, in fact. Dropping the horror angle for "he's done this poo poo too many times to care anymore" is a pretty legitimate take to try given what Isaac's already gone through, the co-op stuff works (and does an excellent job of slipping the second-player character in for cutscenes if you're playing solo so that he has different jobs elsewhere instead of following Isaac), and giving the weapons universal ammo means players are actually encouraged to fiddle with the weapon-building mechanic.
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Aug 16, 2018 03:33
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Toxic Fart Syndrome posted:Origins was made by the same team as Black Flag (the pirate one) and owns bones. Odyssey also looks dope. They're just trying to rip off The Witcher at this point, which is turning the AssCreed series into Bioware's spiritual successor. It's still weird to me that BioWare is going away from that model, because there's a built-in audience which will buy anything that lets you go to four Important Places, smooch an alien or elf, and save the world
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Aug 16, 2018 03:38
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Neddy Seagoon posted:You forgot "hilariously inaccurate on every page and had to be reprinted with better writing" on the tie-in novel scale. That was something special. I really think it had to be all the bug video's that came out (especially the whole "My face is tired" one) and anything with the female Ryder. God so many Ryder drupy images and memes like a week before launch. 
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Aug 16, 2018 03:41
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BexGu posted:I really think it had to be all the bug video's that came out (especially the whole "My face is tired" one) and anything with the female Ryder. God so many Ryder drupy images and memes like a week before launch. I love this gif and it makes me miss my derpy female Ryder av
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Aug 16, 2018 03:43
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Pattonesque posted:It's still weird to me that BioWare is going away from that model, because there's a built-in audience which will buy anything that lets you go to four Important Places, smooch an alien or elf, and save the world "Bioware" no longer exists, it's just EA and EA has decided that years-too-late sci-fi Witcher wannabes and Destiny clones are where it's at.
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Aug 16, 2018 03:44
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"But Steel is heavier than Feathers...."
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Aug 16, 2018 03:47
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DrNutt posted:I love this gif and it makes me miss my derpy female Ryder av It was either that or the slowest gun grab in history (After Shepard make it look amazing!) 
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Aug 16, 2018 03:52
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Cythereal posted:"Bioware" no longer exists, it's just EA and EA has decided that years-too-late sci-fi Witcher wannabes and Destiny clones are where it's at. Actually check that again, the real funniest thing is when they said they took inspiration from Witcher 3 in Andromeda's quest design, which, lol Like there's one mission I remember where you stumble across a bridge on ... Ice Planet I think. There are a couple kett and bombs on the bridge so you take care of them and your squaddies are like "great now people can use the bridge" but no one ever uses the bridge or shows up after you liberate the bridge, it's never referenced anywhere, there's barely any reward, and it's just an excuse to shoot some kett I don't even think there's a road attached to it BexGu posted:I really think it had to be all the bug video's that came out (especially the whole "My face is tired" one) and anything with the female Ryder. God so many Ryder drupy images and memes like a week before launch. Previous BioWare games had glitches or derpy faces but crucially: 1. they didn't show up all over the goddamn marketing in the week leading up to release 2. the games they were in were mostly good games so they were at worst minor distractions like Shepard's creepy smile in ME2 was a meme but ME2 was one of the best games of all time so it's more an "oh, you!" reaction than anything else
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Aug 16, 2018 03:53
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Story lines about monstrous, relentless invaders are boring. Darkspawn are the worst part of Dragon Age. Reapers are the worst part of Mass Effect. Mass Effect's setting has a lot going for it, but the reaper story line is dreadful. The most common criticisms of ME3--the ending, Kai Leng, Cerberus--are apt. But I dislike it for another reason: Bioware made an interesting setting that was fun to explore, and then utterly smashed it for a terribly uninteresting reason. Like, if there were a big war between the Citadel powers because the rise of humanity destabilized the existing galactic power structure--that'd be cool! But instead its smashed up because scary monsters from the ether are invading. Mass Effect 2 was the best game in the series even though the main story line was the weakest. I liked the loose collection of well developed, major quests. I wouldn't mind playing a Mass Effect type game where you're basically an explorer/archaeologist/knight errant just exploring and establishing a place in the world. I hoped Andromeda would be this, and I never played it more than 15 minutes, but I'm guessing that's not how it turned out. Perhaps Starfield will be this, but I have little faith in Bethesda's ability to realize interesting settings or create memorable characters.
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Aug 16, 2018 04:00
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prometheusbound2 posted:
You should be establishing a place in the world in Andromeda but they made the extremely bizarre decision to make every planet you visit, uh, already explored and colonized. You're just fiddling with the thermostat and air filters.
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Aug 16, 2018 04:03
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Pattonesque posted:Actually check that again, the real funniest thing is when they said they took inspiration from Witcher 3 in Andromeda's quest design, which, lol Also in a weird twist, the creepy smile wasn't nearly as noticeable with a custom Shepard, at least it wasn't on any of mine.
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Aug 16, 2018 04:04
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prometheusbound2 posted:Story lines about monstrous, relentless invaders are boring. Darkspawn are the worst part of Dragon Age. I think Awakening made them semi interesting.
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Aug 16, 2018 04:04
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Sad thing is, I really like Ryder herself from Andromeda. She's a shy, bookish, socially awkward dork suddenly thrust into a situation so far over her head that she can't see daylight, and she and everyone around her knows it. She's not Commander Badass McJesus Shepard, she's barely even military trained. But she's what the Heleus Cluster has to work with, and she works hard and slowly grows into a real leader.
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Aug 16, 2018 04:05
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Neddy Seagoon posted:I don't mind Dead Space 3 to be honest. I quite like it, in fact. Dropping the horror angle for "he's done this poo poo too many times to care anymore" is a pretty legitimate take to try given what Isaac's already gone through, the co-op stuff works (and does an excellent job of slipping the second-player character in for cutscenes if you're playing solo so that he has different jobs elsewhere instead of following Isaac), and giving the weapons universal ammo means players are actually encouraged to fiddle with the weapon-building mechanic. There's a cool thing with co-op in Dead Space 3 where one of the characters hallucinates and sees poo poo that the other player doesn't at some points (carver or whoever has PTSD about his dead son or something and trips out over that). It's only really cool if two people are playing it for the first time and talking to each other but I watched an LP where two people did that and it was neat
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Aug 16, 2018 04:09
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Cythereal posted:Sad thing is, I really like Ryder herself from Andromeda. She's a shy, bookish, socially awkward dork suddenly thrust into a situation so far over her head that she can't see daylight, and she and everyone around her knows it. She's not Commander Badass McJesus Shepard, she's barely even military trained. But she's what the Heleus Cluster has to work with, and she works hard and slowly grows into a real leader. That makes me want to play Andromeda, because also protagonist as stoic heroic military person is also boring and dumb--but I don't know if I can deal with 40 hours of what seems like Ubisoft style open world gameplay and Wheadon aping dialog.
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Aug 16, 2018 04:46
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Ainsley McTree posted:There's a cool thing with co-op in Dead Space 3 where one of the characters hallucinates and sees poo poo that the other player doesn't at some points (carver or whoever has PTSD about his dead son or something and trips out over that). Carver the Potato Head Man will start hallucinating birthday party stuff because his kid died on his birthday or something. Later on the banners go from saying "Happy Birthday" to "DEAD INSIDE" and when I noticed I had to put the controller down I was laughing so hard. Isaac will try to kill Carver in co-op at one point because he freaks out and thinks he's in an elevator with a necromorph. Dead Space 3 is a great game. Also you can dress up in N7 armor! It doesn't really do anything but it looks cool.
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Aug 16, 2018 04:47
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prometheusbound2 posted:That makes me want to play Andromeda, because also protagonist as stoic heroic military person is also boring and dumb--but I don't know if I can deal with 40 hours of what seems like Ubisoft style open world gameplay and Wheadon aping dialog. I played Andromeda twice, once as Scott and once as Sarah, and neither one is particularly stoic. The 'professional' responses are more about going straight to business and being polite than they are about being bland. Sarah is distinctly more of an enthusiastic dork in over her head, Scott is more restrained and laid back. Andromeda's big selling point in terms of story tone, for me, is that it's a very optimistic and rather light-hearted game. My first game, I realized I was more or less playing a young Asian lesbian version of Captain Picard flying around a new galaxy with a group of eccentric friends saving the day, making peace with aliens, making everyone's lives better, and geeking out at weird alien tech. Andromeda's faults, imo, are all in the gameplay design and an atrocious UI. The story and characters are just fine.
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Aug 16, 2018 04:57
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Cythereal posted:Andromeda's big selling point in terms of story tone, for me, is that it's a very optimistic and rather light-hearted game. My first game, I realized I was more or less playing a young Asian lesbian version of Captain Picard flying around a new galaxy with a group of eccentric friends saving the day, making peace with aliens, making everyone's lives better, and geeking out at weird alien tech. None of the tech is ever explored beyond "push this switch to make the planet better and leave before the Arbitrary Death Wall catches you", even when there's an intact Remnant ship to poke around in. The story puts no thought or effort into exploring any of the neat premises or locations it creates, it just uses them to advance the plot and tosses them aside without a second thought for the next as it goes. Which is the last thing you should be doing when the fundamental premise is exploring another galaxy.
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Aug 16, 2018 05:12
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Neddy Seagoon posted:None of the tech is ever explored beyond "push this switch to make the planet better and leave before the Arbitrary Death Wall catches you", even when there's an intact Remnant ship to poke around in. The story puts no thought or effort into exploring any of the neat premises or locations it creates, it just uses them to advance the plot and tosses them aside without a second thought for the next as it goes. Which is the last thing you should be doing when the fundamental premise is exploring another galaxy. ...I was just reading through my posts in this thread, and I'd forgotten all about 90% of Andromeda. I maintain that Ryder is a good character, and beyond her I'd say that Suvi, Jallo, Drack, Vetra, and maybe Jaal are worth saving. Everyone else in Andromeda...
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Aug 16, 2018 05:36
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DrNutt posted:I love this gif and it makes me miss my derpy female Ryder av Yeah, if the game had been fun/good, people would have thought of these gifs fondly. Kingdom Come was buggy as poo poo and has some hilarious, derpy memes, but the game was fun and the characters mildly interesting so people forgave it. Same with most Bethesda games at launch. Pattonesque posted:Actually check that again, the real funniest thing is when they said they took inspiration from Witcher 3 in Andromeda's quest design, which, lol I almost forgot about the goofy, custom-Shep memes. Add that to the list. Let's not forget one of the reasons the ~face~ scene is so bad is that line is atrociously written. Like, seriously, twenty different people saw that and no one stopped it. loving absurd. They recorded the line and, I assume, chose the best take and still decided to leave it in. Dozens of people: writers, editors, playtesters...and no one could stop that from making it into the game? 
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Aug 16, 2018 05:50
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Andromeda did give us this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JYDiw6QQIKU
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Aug 16, 2018 06:21
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The only good sequence in ME3 is the Krogan one, which I remember being pretty early so just stop after that
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Aug 16, 2018 07:54
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So was I imagining things or did Casey Hudson leave Bioware and has since come back or something? Also jfc I completely forgot so much about Andromeda: Liam and Cora, Vetra, the name of the ship (Tempest) and truck (Nomad), who Aya was. What a damning indictment of a game, being utterly forgettable
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Aug 16, 2018 11:34
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Cythereal posted:...I was just reading through my posts in this thread, and I'd forgotten all about 90% of Andromeda. If I could forget 90% of Andromeda I'd like it as much as you do too!
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Aug 16, 2018 13:14
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My post history itt is like what Shepard must have felt trying to warn the Council about the Reapers for two years.
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Aug 16, 2018 13:19
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