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V. Illych L. posted:socialism
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Aug 24, 2018 01:19
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Socialists. We need to get our schools up to snuff.
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Aug 24, 2018 01:23
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How many monarchies are left in Europe?
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Aug 24, 2018 01:23
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Socialists
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Aug 24, 2018 01:29
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Imperialism Supply Side
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Aug 24, 2018 01:59
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How much will your precious social reforms help, when Iberia is occupied by the wicked and conniving French or the slaving Moroccans? Will they think that a measly minimum wage was worth the lives of their children? They're wives and Mother's? Or will they wonder why the government prioritized worthless social reforms over the defense of the nation! A vote for socialism is a vote for dead mothers and children! A vote for the Moderates is a vote for safety and security! fucking love Fiona Apple fucked around with this message at 02:03 on Aug 24, 2018 |
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Aug 24, 2018 02:00
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Moderates Honour Duty Factroys
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Aug 24, 2018 02:03
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Moderates
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Aug 24, 2018 02:11
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All yall voting for Moderates know the Socialists are also gonna wire up the Pyrenees, right? With how our techs are researched right now them having commerce doesn't even matter considering that tree is basically full. They'll be backfilling industry + culture + miltech same as the moderates, but also with healthcare and education (which are both incredibly huge and we're also at about the last point in game where the cumulative effects of them will be noticable)
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Aug 24, 2018 02:26
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Moderates
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Aug 24, 2018 02:26
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ThatBasqueGuy posted:All yall voting for Moderates know the Socialists are also gonna wire up the Pyrenees, right? With how our techs are researched right now them having commerce doesn't even matter considering that tree is basically full. They'll be backfilling industry + culture + miltech same as the moderates, but also with healthcare and education (which are both incredibly huge and we're also at about the last point in game where the cumulative effects of them will be noticable) This is a great point, and the reason why I voted Socialist over moderate. The Socialists are basically gonna do everything the Moderates do while moving Al Andalus forward socially. The Pyrenees will be an impassable murder zone either way, but Socialists will leave us with an educated, healthy population and robust industry and supply lines.
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Aug 24, 2018 02:31
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ThatBasqueGuy posted:All yall voting for Moderates know the Socialists are also gonna wire up the Pyrenees, right? With how our techs are researched right now them having commerce doesn't even matter considering that tree is basically full. They'll be backfilling industry + culture + miltech same as the moderates, but also with healthcare and education (which are both incredibly huge and we're also at about the last point in game where the cumulative effects of them will be noticable) 
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Aug 24, 2018 02:32
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There's literally no reason to vote moderate when socialist exists unless you just want us in a great war.
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Aug 24, 2018 02:47
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Rodyle posted:There's literally no reason to vote moderate when socialist exists unless you just want us in a great war. Moderate
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Aug 24, 2018 02:51
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Rodyle posted:There's literally no reason to vote moderate when socialist exists unless you just want us in a great war. This is true in the game too.
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Aug 24, 2018 02:52
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Rodyle posted:There's literally no reason to vote moderate when socialist exists unless you just want us in a great war. if we get in a war that goes badly we'll be too devestated to fight off the inevitable communist upriiii- Hmm 
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Aug 24, 2018 02:52
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Alright switching from moderates to socialists. Knowing the game any revolution would go reactionary anyway
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Aug 24, 2018 02:53
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Aug 24, 2018 02:55
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Imperialist! May the sun never set on the Andalusi Empire.
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Aug 24, 2018 02:56
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Socialist I guess...
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Aug 24, 2018 02:58
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Socialist, even though the Khedive needs to be put on trial.
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Aug 24, 2018 03:06
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Moderates
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Aug 24, 2018 03:10
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Moderates
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Aug 24, 2018 03:13
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Moderates are the safe choice, but there are benefits to Socialism.
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Aug 24, 2018 03:18
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Switch me to socialist in a doomed attempt to prevent Al Andalus from creating a facefucking ouroboros of self. When we hit the fourth Taifa phase, you can all eat my entire rear end.
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Aug 24, 2018 03:18
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Relax, we're on top again and nothing bad like that will ever happen again.
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Aug 24, 2018 03:21
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The Socialists will beat our swords into plowshares, or at least railroad spikes. Vote socialist for a brave new Iberia!
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Aug 24, 2018 03:24
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I'm sure nothing will go wrong with Al Andalus becoming politically isolated while it's enemies estabilish webs of alliances. Vote Moderate if you want to survive!
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Aug 24, 2018 03:25
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Socialists
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Aug 24, 2018 03:26
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TheFlyingLlama posted:Communists
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Aug 24, 2018 03:27
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Frionnel posted:I'm sure nothing will go wrong with Al Andalus becoming politically isolated while it's enemies estabilish webs of alliances. Vote Moderate if you want to survive! If it's the only way. Switching to Moderates.
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Aug 24, 2018 03:28
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Rough count we're at like ~35 for Moderates, ~31 for Socialists (and 2 communist), 5 for Imperialists, and 3 for Royalists. It's kind of shocking people want to move away from the Imperialists at the time when they'll basically be the most necessary option -- I'd like the socialists and moderates both to consider what the actual ramifications will be of letting the situation stand as is. This is both the perfect chance and the last chance we have to consolidate Africa while Morocco is weak and has no real allies; more importantly, it's the last and best chance we have to weaken Morocco further and take away the biggest source of their power, the Raj. It wasn't clear whether or not the Raj was still revolting, but if it is, destroying Morocco's armies and letting the Raj revolt continue until it breaks away will be the most powerful blow we've ever struck against the Almoravids (and if it was put down, it probably won't take long for another one to pop up in the middle of a war). India is the source of an extremely large amount of their manpower and their wealth; whether or not we sphere or incorporate the remnant after it breaks away is irrelevant, so long as we can help it break away in the first place. And as for Africa itself, we must ultimately consider what the future of the continent will be under the current situation. There can be no lasting peace and development in Africa so long as Morocco maintains its massive sub-Saharan holdings; Morocco will always agitate for conflict against Al-Andalus and the conquest of Africa so long as its colonial empire stays intact, and it will be especially so with the current status of our African borders. Other European powers will similarly always covet Africa, and the oppression and exploitation of the native peoples under the Khedive and truly by all Andalusi will inevitably have its price. Our dominion over Africa will be a constant source of strife for us. It is correct that the only good long-term solution is decolonisation. But decolonisation as it is currently proposed by the Socialists is completely counterproductive; there's neither any kind of moral righteousness nor practical sense in it. Leaving the Khedive to consolidate his power and tyranny, while isolating ourselves in Iberia to concentrate the plundered wealth? Locking ourselves up and leaving everything be at the height of an unsustainable situation we've created? Allowing Morocco to recover and inevitably create a new set of daggers at our necks? It's nonsense. What we can and should do is remove the Khedive and Morocco both and consolidate all of central Africa, empower Benin and establish it as both a true ally and a bastion against further Almoravid imperialism, force the other European colonisers to release those African states like Ethiopia that already had self-determination; when we have done this and safeguarded Africa against the other great powers, we must then release all of the African peoples under our rule and establish self-governing nation-states with constitutions guaranteeing the freedoms and human rights of all their citizens into perpetuity, free of Qadis and all empires, equal brothers and sisters in a world liberated from the brutalities of autocrats. We can accomplish the greatest good possible if we simply finish what we've started. Another term of Imperialists, when we are the height of our power and our enemies at their nadir, when we are so close to a proper decolonisation that would ensure lasting peace and prosperity for the peoples of both Africa and Iberia, when we are at the crux of a great liberation for our citizenry in coalition with the socialists -- it is the most righteous and the most sensible option possible. Even the concerns over our industrial technology can be somewhat alleviated when you consider that we are already at the forefront of the commercial and naval -- surely we'll backfill somewhat, and all will be well anyway when we have accomplished this great mission and the baton is handed to our Socialist brothers to both develop Al Andalus and handle the decolonisation. The votes are weighing heavily against the Imperialists, and yes, the party's own imperialism has been a great sin, but there is still time to put in new votes and change the old, to make it right with a final campaign against an evil empire on its last legs, for all of us to come together and grasp this chance while we still can. Have heart! Hiveminded fucked around with this message at 03:36 on Aug 24, 2018 |
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Aug 24, 2018 03:31
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AnCa
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Aug 24, 2018 03:32
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I legit don't understand the point of going for Moderate, unless you're just living the gimmick in which case sure. Socialists are able to do all the same buildups that the Moderates can do (plus more), won't roll back our few reforms, and while no, they won't build an alliance network, they'll also keep us out of the wars that NEED those networks, because it's trivially easy to avoid getting into wars in V2 so long as you aren't sitting on someone's cores or an unciv up for colonization.
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Aug 24, 2018 03:37
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I never read any of your socialist pamphlets, all I know is that my workers keep demanding to be paid in real money instead of company scrip and at least 2 weeks off when the mangler takes one of their arms. It sounds like a bunch of nonsense to me
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Aug 24, 2018 03:39
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Lol holy poo poo we really are going to vote in actual literal monarchists that were last relevant during the Napoleonic era as the 20th century dawns. Nobody voting non-Socialist is ever allowed to complain that Al-Andalus is a lovely place ever again. E: Oh wait the count is 31 for socialists not 21, ok you're not all as hopeless as I thought Crazycryodude fucked around with this message at 03:42 on Aug 24, 2018 |
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Aug 24, 2018 03:39
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Voting for Fascism
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Aug 24, 2018 03:41
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we are this timelines Russia This timelines Russia ironically is otl's Germany, but without great powers on all sides to keep them contained
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Aug 24, 2018 03:41
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Rodyle posted:I legit don't understand the point of going for Moderate, unless you're just living the gimmick in which case sure. Socialists are able to do all the same buildups that the Moderates can do (plus more), won't roll back our few reforms, and while no, they won't build an alliance network, they'll also keep us out of the wars that NEED those networks, because it's trivially easy to avoid getting into wars in V2 so long as you aren't sitting on someone's cores or an unciv up for colonization. We just lost an important ally in the SGU. The one we got to replace them, Japan, is unreliable in an European war and has made enemies of and increasingly more powerful China. Right now if Morocco or France attacks us we're basically alone. The Socialists will just stand there and be sitting ducks waiting for foreign agression. And exactly because they refuse on principle to help any of our current allies, we're at risk of alienating even the most trustworthy, like Benin. We need friends more than ever, because by becoming the number one power we just painted an even bigger target on our backs. And of the only two choices in this vote, the moderates are the only ones taking this subject seriously. And oh man, let's not even talk about granting autonomy to the Khedive, because empowering an autocrat (who is responsible for all the lovely stuff that happens in our colonies) is certainly a great way to start decolonization. Frionnel fucked around with this message at 03:47 on Aug 24, 2018 |
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Aug 24, 2018 03:43
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Again, I would happily vote for the Socialists if they weren't actively propping up a tyrant under the guise of anti-imperialism. As bad as an invasion to unseat the Khedive would be, that would almost certainly turn out terribly for Andalusia and the natives alike.tatankatonk posted:Voting for Fascism
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Aug 24, 2018 03:43
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