Automation Thread: Imagine Johnny 5 squashing pedestrians, forever

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CrazySalamander: Nov 5, 2009

Financial Titans posted:

Using neck control collars

Holy poo poo the ultra rich are fantasizing about post apocalyptic slave collars in public.

Thanks for the nightmare fuel elcondemn.

# ? Aug 1, 2018 09:06

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# ? Jun 11, 2024 07:48

pangstrom: Jan 25, 2003; Wedge Regret

ElCondemn posted:

This is an interesting read about acceptance of robots in Japan compared to Westerners.

https://www.wired.com/story/ideas-joi-ito-robot-overlords/?mbid=social_twitter

That's interesting, I hadn't thought of it that way. I haven't been paying much attention to Japan for the last 15 years, but I had thought (and still do I guess, maybe wrongly) that a big part of that "why" is Japan re-entered the global prestige scene based on high tech stuff, they were generally proud of Sony and Toyota etc.

# ? Aug 1, 2018 14:35

Main Paineframe: Oct 27, 2010

ElCondemn posted:

This is an interesting read about acceptance of robots in Japan compared to Westerners.

https://www.wired.com/story/ideas-joi-ito-robot-overlords/?mbid=social_twitter

It's a mildly interesting philosophical piece about the role of robots in our oppression-based society, but the article's sole example for the Japanese relationship with robots is the fact that Astro Boy is popular in Japan, so I wouldn't really take it as authoritative.

# ? Aug 1, 2018 17:28

ElCondemn: Aug 7, 2005

CrazySalamander posted:

Holy poo poo the ultra rich are fantasizing about post apocalyptic slave collars in public.

Thanks for the nightmare fuel elcondemn.

My favorite part is:

quote:

Douglas suggested perhaps simply starting to be nicer to their security people now, before the revolution, but they thought it was already too late for that.

Main Paineframe posted:

It's a mildly interesting philosophical piece about the role of robots in our oppression-based society, but the article's sole example for the Japanese relationship with robots is the fact that Astro Boy is popular in Japan, so I wouldn't really take it as authoritative.

I'm not sure I buy the reasoning either, however I think it's important to try to understand what influences popular opinion about robots in society. I think there is definitely a different attitude towards robots in Japan than most of the western world though, I suspect it has more to do with the culture of shame/honor more than spirituality.

# ? Aug 1, 2018 18:59

Mr. Fall Down Terror: Jan 24, 2018; by Fluffdaddy

ElCondemn posted:

I'm not sure I buy the reasoning either, however I think it's important to try to understand what influences popular opinion about robots in society. I think there is definitely a different attitude towards robots in Japan than most of the western world though, I suspect it has more to do with the culture of shame/honor more than spirituality.

the japanese are super in tune with consumer capitalism (300+ flavors of kit kat bars!) and love silly gadgets and poo poo like that

# ? Aug 1, 2018 19:06

BENGHAZI 2: Oct 13, 2007; by Cyrano4747

Taffer posted:

Why not? it's a menial task that is performed many millions of times per day just in the US. That's a prime target for automation. It can be made to be done faster and cheaper, and will free people from doing that awful task, particularly in fast food. Obviously there's a big side-discussion here about how society handles a lot of jobs disappearing but that's a separate topic that we've gone over a lot in this thread already so I'm going to avoid it.

Exactly where are you getting the numbers that say this is the same cost as a human being? It does not take much for a machine to be cheaper than a human. And even if this one isn't (none of us know that), it's very short-sighted to assume it never will be. One of the biggest features of the current phase of the technological revolution we're going through is flattening the curve on economies of scale. Big, highly optimized factories will of course still be ideal for certain tasks, but we can bring up the other end of the curve and reduce costs on small scales. This happens in a lot of ways - 3D printing, sophisticated software, computer vision, advanced robotics equipment, etc. This allows complex tasks to be done on small-ish scales at a much cheaper price per unit than before.

To pull some numbers completely out of my rear end, say this machine does the work of two people in the same amount of time, and it costs $30,000. Congrats, it's now significantly cheaper than human labor and will pay for itself in a few months. It's probably not there yet, but first generations of something new rarely are.

I'm not sure why that's so hard for you to grasp. This is like people making GBS threads all over the first car and saying it'll never take off because it's slower and more difficult to maintain than horses. Like, no poo poo, it was the first version of something completely new. And before you say that robots have been making food - not like this they haven't. Factories have been pumping out bulk, prepackaged, specifically prepared foods for decades. Robots haven't been doing all or nearly-all of the cooking and assembling of a relatively complex and highly variable meal as a last-step before reaching the consumer. Don't be disingenuous.

I too can't wait to free people from their job so that they can immediately go from working at McDonald's to

Never mind the insane classist poo poo in this post, eliminating jobs by replacing people with machines doesn't help those people get better jobs. It just means they can't have the one the machine is doing.

# ? Aug 9, 2018 23:52

BENGHAZI 2: Oct 13, 2007; by Cyrano4747

Taffer posted:

To lead fulfilling lives. This is getting back to the large issue of how a society handles jobs no longer existing: there are lots of very good ideas for how to handle it, and even a few examples of them working. Pretty much universally those examples lead to people being happier, more productive, more engaged in their communities, and more educated. If you doubt this I'll happily dig up some sources once I'm out of work.

Those examples usually involve things like social safety nets or UBI or livable minwage, so let's work on those before we start taking jobs away from people who need that money to live, sincerely, minimum wage worker

Also, I fuckin love kitchen work, don't tell me about how it's unfulfilling and awful, thanks

# ? Aug 9, 2018 23:57

BENGHAZI 2: Oct 13, 2007; by Cyrano4747

This is the only advancement in AI that matters

https://twitter.com/bdsams/status/1027879335515107329?s=19

# ? Aug 10, 2018 23:02

GABA ghoul: Oct 29, 2011

BENGHAZI 2 posted:

This is the only advancement in AI that matters

https://twitter.com/bdsams/status/1027879335515107329?s=19

Nooooooo, that's my job! I thought I had more time

# ? Aug 11, 2018 14:03

Cicero: Dec 17, 2003; Jumpjet, melta, jumpjet. Repeat for ten minutes or until victory is assured.

https://www.theverge.com/2018/8/13/17670156/deepmind-ai-eye-disease-doctor-moorfields

quote:

Step by step, condition by condition, AI systems are slowly learning to diagnose disease as well as any human doctor, and they could soon be working in a hospital near you. The latest example is from London, where researchers from Google’s DeepMind subsidiary, UCL, and Moorfields Eye Hospital have used deep learning to create software that identifies dozens of common eye diseases from 3D scans and then recommends the patient for treatment.

The work is the result of a multiyear collaboration between the three institutions. And while the software is not ready for clinical use, it could be deployed in hospitals in a matter of years. Those involved in the research described is as “ground-breaking.” Mustafa Suleyman, head of DeepMind Health, said in a press statement that the project was “incredibly exciting” and could, in time, “transform the diagnosis, treatment, and management of patients with sight threatening eye conditions [...] around the world.”

The software, described in a paper published in the journal Nature Medicine, is based on established principles of deep learning, which uses algorithms to identify common patterns in data. In this case, the data is 3D scans of patients’ eyes made using a technique known as optical coherence tomography, or OCT. Creating these scans takes around 10 minutes and involves bouncing near-infrared light off of the interior surfaces of the eye. Doing so creates a 3D image of the tissue, which is a common way to assess eye health. OCT scans are a crucial medical tool, as early identification of eye disease often saves the patient’s sight.

The software was trained on nearly 15,000 OCT scans from some 7,500 patients. These individuals had all been treated at sites operated by Moorfields, which is the largest eye hospital in Europe and North America. The system was fed their scans alongside diagnoses by human doctors. From this, it learned how to first identify the different anatomical elements of the eye (a process known as segmentation) and then recommend clinical action based on the various signs of diseases that the scans show.

In a test where the AI’s judgments were compared with diagnoses by a panel of eight doctors, the software made the same recommendation more than 94 percent of the time.

This (interpreting medical scans) does seem like one of the areas that current AI is well poised to handle.

# ? Aug 13, 2018 20:18

Libluini: May 18, 2012; I gravitated towards the Greens, eventually even joining the party itself.

The Linke is a party I grudgingly accept exists, but I've learned enough about DDR-history I can't bring myself to trust a party that was once the SED, a party leading the corrupt state apparatus ...; Grimey Drawer

Cicero posted:

https://www.theverge.com/2018/8/13/17670156/deepmind-ai-eye-disease-doctor-moorfields

This (interpreting medical scans) does seem like one of the areas that current AI is well poised to handle.

I've read some articles about this kind of tech. Apparently it's run into some trouble when being implemented, as many doctors often refuse to accept AI-proposals, which often adds so much time needed to confirm the AI-interpretation, it ends up taking more time and money than just going with normal doctors in the first place.

But this seems different depending on university and often country, so the results of AI programs like this could be vastly different, with sometimes very good, and sometimes very bad results.

(Source: Some Scientific American article I've read a couple years ago.)

# ? Aug 13, 2018 22:35

Trabisnikof: Dec 24, 2005

Interesting Waymo writeup in bloomberg a few weeks ago:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2018-07-31/inside-the-life-of-waymo-s-driverless-test-family

quote:

The Jackson family, along with some 400 neighbors in their Phoenix suburb, are volunteers in an ongoing test of Waymo�s autonomous ride-hailing business, which is expected to launch for paying passengers in the area by the end of the year. The Jacksons, who Waymo made available for this story, have largely ditched their own cars and now use self-driving vehicles to go almost everywhere within the 100 square-mile operating area: track practice, grocery shopping, movies, the train station.

Kyla acts like a diva with a private chauffeur, laughs her mom, Samantha Jackson, in an interview in Chandler last week. Access to robotaxis has even managed to convince this 17-year-old to put off an American rite of passage: getting her driver�s license. As Kyla puts it, �What�s the point?�

All rides are free for volunteers, but the Waymo app recently started to show hypothetical prices. A view of the app by Bloomberg News offers the first indication of Waymo�s early experiments with pricing. A ride to Kyla�s nearby school shows up as $5, for example, while a longer 11.3-mile trip lists a cost of $19.15. That�s similar to the cost of a ride from Uber Technologies Inc. or Lyft Inc., and cheaper than a local taxi.

A Waymo spokesperson says the placeholder price is a way to solicit feedback from volunteers and �does not reflect the various pricing models under consideration.� It�s certainly got the Jackson family wondering how the service they�ve come to rely on will soon fit into their lives.

�People were like, �I don't know how you get in that. I couldn't trust a machine like that.� It's so opposite to how I've come to think about it,� Samantha says of friends� reaction to her family�s trust in driverless cars. �I can't think of a time that we've ever been honked at.�
...
The experience of riding in a Waymo is surprisingly mundane. The robotaxi drives like a very careful human. Bloomberg News sat in the backseat, accompanied by backup drivers, for recent rides near Palo Alto and Phoenix.

Screens built into the back of the front-seat headrests give passengers a sleek, videogame-like view of what the car sees, with nearby vehicles represented as smooth pods jockeying along a dark blue virtual roadway. Every 5 seconds or so, a spray of white pinpoints flash across the screen, briefly illuminating the roadway in striking detail: pedestrians on the sidewalk, shrubbery, road signs dotting the landscape. It�s Waymo�s way of telling the passenger: I�ve got this.

One of the tricks Waymo has had to learn is how to indicate �intent� to other drivers by how the car moves. While making a left turn in a large multi-lane intersection, the car signals and creeps forward before accelerating into the turn. Waymo drives conservatively, to be sure, but the robots aren�t cowards. Gone are the days where two self-driving cars facing each other in a parking lot might freeze up from an overabundance of politeness: You go first. No, please, you go first.

There are still times when the car gets flustered�Kyla says that the rush of students in the parking lot of her high school can trigger Waymo paralysis�but for the most part it�s a reliable, if boring, chauffeur. �Kids walk and it halts,� she says. �It�s so polite. It's like, �Oh sorry.� It�s not rude enough.�

Waymo vans shuttle in and out of a nondescript depot in suburban Arizona, where a handful of dispatchers manage a fleet of hundreds of vehicles. Waymo just doubled the size of its Chandler facility and will need to find more space soon. The new area of the warehouse is packed with some 50 minivans still being loaded with sensors, and one depot operator said that more vehicles arrive every week.

While Waymo�s trials have proven the technology is feasible, it's only done so in Arizona's Goldilocks-like conditions of sunny weather and wide streets, says Raj Rajkumar, a computer engineering professor at Carnegie Mellon University. �The question is not just one of cost, it's one of scale,� he says. �Even Waymo, with Alphabet's deep pockets, cannot do this across the country.�

# ? Aug 13, 2018 23:01

ElCondemn: Aug 7, 2005

I don't understand this quote

quote:

�The question is not just one of cost, it's one of scale,� he says. �Even Waymo, with Alphabet's deep pockets, cannot do this across the country.�

Why can't Google run this nationwide? He just said it's not a cost issue, what is the scale issue he's suggesting prevents this?

Of all the players in the market today Waymo is probably going to be the gold standard, they've really shown their tech to be reliable and safe.

# ? Aug 16, 2018 00:24

Main Paineframe: Oct 27, 2010

ElCondemn posted:

I don't understand this quote

Why can't Google run this nationwide? He just said it's not a cost issue, what is the scale issue he's suggesting prevents this?

Of all the players in the market today Waymo is probably going to be the gold standard, they've really shown their tech to be reliable and safe.

IIRC, Waymo is using scanner cars to build detailed high-resolution 3d maps of every road their self-driving car might drive on, train their AI model against it, and then humans go through the data and program in special-case logic for any bits of the map that their self-driving code can't figure out by itself.
That way, the car doesn't need to actually figure out it's surroundings because everything's been LIDAR-mapped and interpreted for it in advance - it just needs to note any obstacles or other difference between the pre-gathered street data and what it's seeing when it happened to drive by.

It's an easy solution to "our self-driving car isn't actually smart enough to handle this on the fly", but it's also a fundamentally limited solution: LIDAR-mapping every road in the country, complete with human curation, would be an utterly enormous undertaking. They can handle a couple of cities, but scaling much beyond that would require dedicating massive amounts of resources. It makes it easy to get a demonstration project going with relatively stupid AI, but it's a technological dead end that wont lead to an actual self-driving car.

Here's an article:
https://www.google.com/amp/amp.timeinc.net/fortune/2018/02/21/google-waymo-mapping-software

quote:

Making a driverless map, like making a driverless car, is a laborious task. Fleets of autonomous test cars, loaded with expensive lidar sensors and cameras, go out into the world with human backup drivers and capture their surroundings. Plotting the results helps train the next fleet, which will still have safety drivers at the wheel—and, in some cases, scores of additional humans sitting behind computer monitors to catalog all the footage.

It’s an expensive ordeal with a payoff that’s years, if not decades, away. “Even if you could drive your own vehicles around and hit every road in the world, how do you update?” asked Dan Galves, a spokesman for Mobileye. “You’d have to send these vehicles around again.”

Unlike conventional digital maps, self-driving maps require almost-constant updates. The slightest variation on the road—a construction zone that pops up overnight, or a bit of debris—could stop a driverless car in its tracks. “It’s the freak thing that happens that’s going to make autonomous not work,” said McNally, the analyst.
...
Waymo is in this camp, too. The effort formerly known as the Google self-driving car project started on maps in 2009, with Waymo’s Andrew Chatham and one other engineer doing the “super tedious” work of crafting them from scratch—shipping cars packed with sensors to capture a city’s surroundings, then coding those 3-D images into a digital landscape. Chatham said cars may rely on perceptions systems alone to drive on the highway but would be helpless in other traffic conditions. Imagine pulling up to a busy, double-left-lane intersection you’ve never seen before. Now imagine a self-driving car trying to do that.

“That’s the advantage of having a detailed map,” said Chatham. “We can give the cars all the answers to the nasty questions.” He said Waymo is exploring solutions to mapping real-time factors such as construction updates, but declined to share details.

# ? Aug 16, 2018 02:37

Cockmaster: Feb 24, 2002

Main Paineframe posted:

IIRC, Waymo is using scanner cars to build detailed high-resolution 3d maps of every road their self-driving car might drive on, train their AI model against it, and then humans go through the data and program in special-case logic for any bits of the map that their self-driving code can't figure out by itself.
That way, the car doesn't need to actually figure out it's surroundings because everything's been LIDAR-mapped and interpreted for it in advance - it just needs to note any obstacles or other difference between the pre-gathered street data and what it's seeing when it happened to drive by.

It's an easy solution to "our self-driving car isn't actually smart enough to handle this on the fly", but it's also a fundamentally limited solution: LIDAR-mapping every road in the country, complete with human curation, would be an utterly enormous undertaking. They can handle a couple of cities, but scaling much beyond that would require dedicating massive amounts of resources. It makes it easy to get a demonstration project going with relatively stupid AI, but it's a technological dead end that wont lead to an actual self-driving car.

To be fair, there are some advantages to getting real-world service going in some capacity as soon as possible. With this, they can start getting people comfortable with actually riding in self-driving cars and working out the logistics of their robo-taxi service while the people on the tech side refine their perception algorithms. That way, they'll be able to quickly expand once they have cars that don't require intricate LIDAR maps.

# ? Aug 16, 2018 03:37

Mr. Fall Down Terror: Jan 24, 2018; by Fluffdaddy

ElCondemn posted:

Why can't Google run this nationwide? He just said it's not a cost issue, what is the scale issue he's suggesting prevents this?

Of all the players in the market today Waymo is probably going to be the gold standard, they've really shown their tech to be reliable and safe.

the preceding sentence is important

quote:

While Waymo�s trials have proven the technology is feasible, it's only done so in Arizona's Goldilocks-like conditions of sunny weather and wide streets, says Raj Rajkumar, a computer engineering professor at Carnegie Mellon University.

suburban arizona is easy mode for self driving cars. bad weather is infrequent, the roads are spacious, new, and in good repair, and there aren't many pedestrians or cyclists to worry about. the boss level challenge will be like, boston, in the winter

# ? Aug 16, 2018 06:43

Cicero: Dec 17, 2003; Jumpjet, melta, jumpjet. Repeat for ten minutes or until victory is assured.

New Waymo puff pieces:

https://www.theverge.com/2018/8/21/17762326/waymo-self-driving-ride-hail-fleet-management

https://medium.com/waymo/getting-ready-for-more-early-riders-in-phoenix-1699285cbb84

tl;dr "We're still doing poo poo and we're going to 'launch' this year, we swear!"

quote:

She doesn�t own a car, instead using the company�s vehicles for trips to the train station (when she�s in California) or to her favorite frozen yogurt shop in Phoenix.

�I�ve done fully driverless in Phoenix as well a few times and it�s pretty normal,� she said matter-of-factly. �It just works.�

The fact that their own fleet manager who doesn't own a car -- in Phoenix of all places -- has only done fully driverless a few times is fairly telling, I think. Which is to say, the number of chaperone-less rides is still probably very, very low. I wonder how quickly they can actually ramp that up.

Cicero fucked around with this message at 13:59 on Aug 21, 2018

# ? Aug 21, 2018 13:57

Cockmaster: Feb 24, 2002

Cicero posted:

The fact that their own fleet manager who doesn't own a car -- in Phoenix of all places -- has only done fully driverless a few times is fairly telling, I think. Which is to say, the number of chaperone-less rides is still probably very, very low. I wonder how quickly they can actually ramp that up.

Eh, not necessarily. If she had been living without a car for a substantial period of time before their beta testing started, she would have developed her lifestyle around other forms of transportation. If she had sold her car in anticipation of Waymo's service and still not bothered to ride with them much, then that would be cause for concern.

And their service is still limited to members of their "early rider" program - they're probably just trying to be really really really really REALLY sure their tech is ready for primetime before they expand.

# ? Aug 25, 2018 02:00

Trabisnikof: Dec 24, 2005

Waymo has a new blog post about their back of house labor needs: https://medium.com/waymo/getting-ready-for-more-early-riders-in-phoenix-1699285cbb84

# ? Aug 25, 2018 02:30

Blue Star: Feb 18, 2013; by FactsAreUseless

self driving cars are decades away. They were hyped like gently caress a couple years ago. Now? Not a peep after those deaths. Might as well be flying cars.

# ? Aug 25, 2018 20:55

Trabisnikof: Dec 24, 2005

Blue Star posted:

self driving cars are decades away. They were hyped like gently caress a couple years ago. Now? Not a peep after those deaths. Might as well be flying cars.

You have to define your terms. We have self driving cars with no drivers driving on public roads now.

I don�t think self driving cars will replace rural driving anytime soon, but it seems very possible they will compete against jitneys in 2+ metros of over 1M people within 2-5 years.

The self driving fanboys can be completely wrong while self driving vehicles do also find a real world economic niche that is viable.

# ? Aug 25, 2018 21:05

fishmech: Jul 16, 2006; by VideoGames; Salad Prong

Trabisnikof posted:

I don’t think self driving cars will replace rural driving anytime soon, but it seems very possible they will compete against jitneys in 2+ metros of over 1M people within 2-5 years.

Sure.

In that jitneys are primarily a dead form of transit with minimal presence in the modern world.

# ? Aug 25, 2018 21:09

mobby_6kl: Aug 9, 2009; by Fluffdaddy

Blue Star posted:

self driving cars are decades away. They were hyped like gently caress a couple years ago. Now? Not a peep after those deaths. Might as well be flying cars.

The post above yours is literally Google's self driving cars running a taxi service.

# ? Aug 25, 2018 21:28

fishmech: Jul 16, 2006; by VideoGames; Salad Prong

mobby_6kl posted:

The post above yours is literally Google's self driving cars running a taxi service.

In a tiny restricted area of a place with near ideal weather conditions and roads for their purposes.

This may shock you, but most humans don't live in horrible Arizona suburbs.

# ? Aug 25, 2018 21:47

Cicero: Dec 17, 2003; Jumpjet, melta, jumpjet. Repeat for ten minutes or until victory is assured.

Blue Star posted:

Not a peep after those deaths.

If you didn't have your head entirely up your rear end you may have noticed that not-completely-poo poo SDC companies like Waymo have continued to say stuff, actually.

# ? Aug 25, 2018 23:12

Slow News Day: Jul 4, 2007

My understanding - confirmed by an industry insider close friend - is that Waymo is light years ahead of everyone else. They have most of the technology down, and now need to scale up their operations.

fishmech posted:

In a tiny restricted area of a place with near ideal weather conditions and roads for their purposes.

This may shock you, but most humans don't live in horrible Arizona suburbs.

Maybe you haven�t traveled in the US much, but most Southern cities have similar conditions to Arizona year around. A few might occasionally see snow and ice but it�s pretty rare.

# ? Aug 26, 2018 12:03

Cockmaster: Feb 24, 2002

enraged_camel posted:

My understanding - confirmed by an industry insider close friend - is that Waymo is light years ahead of everyone else. They have most of the technology down, and now need to scale up their operations.

Maybe you haven�t traveled in the US much, but most Southern cities have similar conditions to Arizona year around. A few might occasionally see snow and ice but it�s pretty rare.

Plus they actually are working on teaching their cars to handle snow:

https://www.engadget.com/2018/05/08/waymo-snow-navigation/

# ? Aug 26, 2018 12:54

Mr. Fall Down Terror: Jan 24, 2018; by Fluffdaddy

enraged_camel posted:

Maybe you haven�t traveled in the US much, but most Southern cities have similar conditions to Arizona year around. A few might occasionally see snow and ice but it�s pretty rare.

no they dont? cities in the southeast get a ton of rain. the southeast gets more precipitation than the pacific northwest. snow (mostly the impact of snow in an urban environment creating new, irregular hazards) is a big problem for current self driving vehicles but rain is also an issue because of the way it alters road conditions and the behavior of other drivers

# ? Aug 26, 2018 15:52

Owlofcreamcheese: May 22, 2005; Can't post for 9 years!; Buglord

"They only are testing in arizona and no where else!" is a thing from like 2 year ago. This isn't a technology you can look up once then expect it to be the same months or years later. The current list (according to bloomburg) that have autonomous cars offically on the road is:

Adelaide, AU
Amsterdam, NL
Ann Arbor, US
Arlington, US
Austin, US
Bad Birnbach, DE
Berlin, DE
Boston, US
Bristol, UK
Calgary, CA
Cambridge, UK
Canberra, AU
Chandler, US
Chiba City, JP
Columbus, US
Concord, US
Copenhagen, DK
Cossonay, CH
Darwin, AU
Denver, US
Detroit, US
Dubai, UAE
Edmonton, CA
Eindhoven, NL
Fribourg, CH
Frisco, US
Gainesville, US
Geneva, CH
Gothenburg, SE
Greenville, US
Guangzhou, CN
Haarlem, NL
Hamburg, DE
Helsinki, FI
Houston, US
Jacksonville, US
Kaohsiung, TW
Knoxville, US
La Rochelle, FR
Las Vegas, US
Lausanne, CH
Lincoln, US
London, UK
Lyon, FR
Miami, US
Milton Keynes, UK
Montr�al, CA
Oslo, NO
Ottawa, CA
Oxford, UK
Paris, FR
Pittsburgh, US
Reno, US
Rotterdam, NL
Rouen, FR
San Antonio, US
San Francisco, US
San Jose, US
San Ramon, US
Schaffhausen, CH
Seongnam, KR
Shenzhen, CN
Singapore
Sion, CH
South Perth, AU
Stavanger, NO
Stockholm, SE
Sydney, AU
Taipei, TW
Tallinn, EE
Tampa, US
Tampere, FI
Trikala, GR
Wageningen, NL
Washington, DC, US
West Midlands, UK
Wuhan, CN
Wuhu, CN

I'm sure in another 6 months the list will be even longer. It was only in arizona and SF when this thread started but that doesn't mean it's still that.

# ? Aug 26, 2018 16:08

StabbinHobo: Oct 18, 2002; by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

fishmech posted:

In that jitneys are primarily a dead form of transit with minimal presence in the modern world.

this is so screamingly wrong we have to be using the word differently...

I use 'jitney' for the short-bus/big-van private bus market that runs up an down every major road in every east coast city in the u.s (from personal experience, i assumed they were everywhere).

they're like, the bootleg foundation of our "public" transit system. easily hundreds of them driving right this second within 10 miles of me.

# ? Aug 26, 2018 16:28

Cicero: Dec 17, 2003; Jumpjet, melta, jumpjet. Repeat for ten minutes or until victory is assured.

Owlofcreamcheese posted:

"They only are testing in arizona and no where else!" is a thing from like 2 year ago. This isn't a technology you can look up once then expect it to be the same months or years later. The current list (according to bloomburg) that have autonomous cars offically on the road is:

Well, it's true that Arizona is the only place where a company seems close to launching something that can handle more than a handful of predefined routes.

# ? Aug 26, 2018 19:45

Owlofcreamcheese: May 22, 2005; Can't post for 9 years!; Buglord

Cicero posted:

Well, it's true that Arizona is the only place where a company seems close to launching something that can handle more than a handful of predefined routes.

That is not true though. NuTonomy is a commercial robot taxi that runs right now in singapore

# ? Aug 26, 2018 20:17

Trabisnikof: Dec 24, 2005

Owlofcreamcheese posted:

That is not true though. NuTonomy is a commercial robot taxi that runs right now in singapore

According to the most recent NuTonomy press release I can find, they still have company engineers in the vehicles ready to take over:

quote:

Beginning today, select Singapore residents will be invited to use nuTonomy�s ride-hailing smartphone app to book a no-cost ride in a nuTonomy self-driving car that employs the company�s sophisticated software, which has been integrated with high-performance sensing and computing components. The rides will be provided in a Renault Zoe or Mitsubishi i-MiEV electric vehicle that nuTonomy has specially configured for autonomous driving. An engineer from nuTonomy will ride in the vehicle to observe system performance and assume control if needed to ensure passenger comfort and safety.

But they're now owned by Delphi which is a huge sign that the auto parts companies think this is a realistic potential. They've also expanded to Boston, not exactly an AI friendly city either.

# ? Aug 26, 2018 21:00

Owlofcreamcheese: May 22, 2005; Can't post for 9 years!; Buglord

Trabisnikof posted:

According to the most recent NuTonomy press release I can find, they still have company engineers in the vehicles ready to take over:

That sounds exactly like "a company seems close to launching something that can handle more than a handful of predefined routes." which is what he was asking about. Self driving cars are obviously being used in places that aren't a perfect featureless desert like people want to pretend phoenix is.

# ? Aug 26, 2018 21:23

Evil Robot: May 20, 2001; Universally hated.; Grimey Drawer

Even the places they are "featureless deserts" sustain sufficient traffic to make for decent self driving car economics. For instance, all of urban California.

# ? Aug 26, 2018 22:57

Weaponized Autism: Mar 26, 2006; All aboard the Gravy train!; Hair Elf

Arizona is so lucky. They get to have self-driving cars AND experience the heat death of the universe.

# ? Aug 27, 2018 01:51

Main Paineframe: Oct 27, 2010

Trabisnikof posted:

You have to define your terms. We have self driving cars with no drivers driving on public roads now.

I don�t think self driving cars will replace rural driving anytime soon, but it seems very possible they will compete against jitneys in 2+ metros of over 1M people within 2-5 years.

The self driving fanboys can be completely wrong while self driving vehicles do also find a real world economic niche that is viable.

"Competing with illegal taxis in one or two places with a strong presence of legal taxi companies, illegal taxi companies, and robust public transit systems" seems like such a low bar, yet at the same time, still so difficult for self-driving cars to attain.

In any case, there's no way they're going to be economically viable as long as they're depending entirely on doing detailed LIDAR-mapping of every single road in advance. What Waymo has so far is just a PR stunt, not a viable product. And even with all that, they're still using both in-person safety drivers and remote drivers.

# ? Aug 27, 2018 04:47

Trabisnikof: Dec 24, 2005

Main Paineframe posted:

In any case, there's no way they're going to be economically viable as long as they're depending entirely on doing detailed LIDAR-mapping of every single road in advance.

What Waymo has so far is just a PR stunt, not a viable product. And even with all that, they're still using both in-person safety drivers and remote drivers.

I don't know if that's true at all. Major metros are both where the majority of taxi-style traffic would be and would be far more reasonable to pre-map. Considering google/waymo has already been heavily LIDAR indexing streets ahead of this it doesn't seem like a meaningful blocker to urban/suburban use.

If they open to the general public in Phoenix, it will be hard to argue they don't have a product at that point (even if it remains to be seen if it will be widespread or viable). They have ~400 users now, which qualifies as some sort of large scale private test but it is certainly not actually a publicly available product right now.

They're purchasing 62,000 minivans and 20,000 jags so Waymo at least thinks this will be a publicly available product at some point.

Trabisnikof fucked around with this message at 05:08 on Aug 27, 2018

# ? Aug 27, 2018 05:03

Cockmaster: Feb 24, 2002

Trabisnikof posted:

I don't know if that's true at all. Major metros are both where the majority of taxi-style traffic would be and would be far more reasonable to pre-map. Considering google/waymo has already been heavily LIDAR indexing streets ahead of this it doesn't seem like a meaningful blocker to urban/suburban use.

They'd have to stay on top of any road construction that goes on in the service area, but that shouldn't be too bad compared to the cost savings from not having human drivers.

Who knows, maybe we'll have Waymo come out with the first robo-taxi service offered to the public at large, and Tesla with the first car where you can buy it, punch in a destination several states away, and go to sleep.

# ? Aug 27, 2018 12:59

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# ? Jun 11, 2024 07:48

Owlofcreamcheese: May 22, 2005; Can't post for 9 years!; Buglord

Main Paineframe posted:

In any case, there's no way they're going to be economically viable as long as they're depending entirely on doing detailed LIDAR-mapping of every single road in advance.

That doesn't seem that hard, multiple companies already map and photograph every street for street view. Beyond that there is tons of businesses that already drive everywhere all the time they could partner with to add a lidar mapper to the top (fedex, pizza hut, US mail carriers,whatever) and worst case the self driving cars launch only working in and around cities and go to a less autonomous driver assist mode if you leave the city then maps as you personally drive the new roads that end up in the next update once enough data is collected. Maybe they could even make it a game, give you explorer points if you are the first guy to drive down a new road and let you redeem every 5000 explorer points for an amazon gift card or a pokemon go item or something.

# ? Aug 27, 2018 13:24

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