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Financial Titans posted:Using neck control collars Holy poo poo the ultra rich are fantasizing about post apocalyptic slave collars in public. Thanks for the nightmare fuel elcondemn.
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# ? Aug 1, 2018 09:06 |
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# ? Jun 11, 2024 01:40 |
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ElCondemn posted:This is an interesting read about acceptance of robots in Japan compared to Westerners.
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# ? Aug 1, 2018 14:35 |
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ElCondemn posted:This is an interesting read about acceptance of robots in Japan compared to Westerners. It's a mildly interesting philosophical piece about the role of robots in our oppression-based society, but the article's sole example for the Japanese relationship with robots is the fact that Astro Boy is popular in Japan, so I wouldn't really take it as authoritative.
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# ? Aug 1, 2018 17:28 |
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CrazySalamander posted:Holy poo poo the ultra rich are fantasizing about post apocalyptic slave collars in public. My favorite part is: quote:Douglas suggested perhaps simply starting to be nicer to their security people now, before the revolution, but they thought it was already too late for that. Main Paineframe posted:It's a mildly interesting philosophical piece about the role of robots in our oppression-based society, but the article's sole example for the Japanese relationship with robots is the fact that Astro Boy is popular in Japan, so I wouldn't really take it as authoritative. I'm not sure I buy the reasoning either, however I think it's important to try to understand what influences popular opinion about robots in society. I think there is definitely a different attitude towards robots in Japan than most of the western world though, I suspect it has more to do with the culture of shame/honor more than spirituality.
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# ? Aug 1, 2018 18:59 |
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ElCondemn posted:I'm not sure I buy the reasoning either, however I think it's important to try to understand what influences popular opinion about robots in society. I think there is definitely a different attitude towards robots in Japan than most of the western world though, I suspect it has more to do with the culture of shame/honor more than spirituality. the japanese are super in tune with consumer capitalism (300+ flavors of kit kat bars!) and love silly gadgets and poo poo like that
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# ? Aug 1, 2018 19:06 |
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Taffer posted:Why not? it's a menial task that is performed many millions of times per day just in the US. That's a prime target for automation. It can be made to be done faster and cheaper, and will free people from doing that awful task, particularly in fast food. Obviously there's a big side-discussion here about how society handles a lot of jobs disappearing but that's a separate topic that we've gone over a lot in this thread already so I'm going to avoid it. I too can't wait to free people from their job so that they can immediately go from working at McDonald's to Never mind the insane classist poo poo in this post, eliminating jobs by replacing people with machines doesn't help those people get better jobs. It just means they can't have the one the machine is doing.
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# ? Aug 9, 2018 23:52 |
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Taffer posted:To lead fulfilling lives. This is getting back to the large issue of how a society handles jobs no longer existing: there are lots of very good ideas for how to handle it, and even a few examples of them working. Pretty much universally those examples lead to people being happier, more productive, more engaged in their communities, and more educated. If you doubt this I'll happily dig up some sources once I'm out of work. Those examples usually involve things like social safety nets or UBI or livable minwage, so let's work on those before we start taking jobs away from people who need that money to live, sincerely, minimum wage worker Also, I fuckin love kitchen work, don't tell me about how it's unfulfilling and awful, thanks
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# ? Aug 9, 2018 23:57 |
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This is the only advancement in AI that matters https://twitter.com/bdsams/status/1027879335515107329?s=19
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# ? Aug 10, 2018 23:02 |
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BENGHAZI 2 posted:This is the only advancement in AI that matters Nooooooo, that's my job! I thought I had more time
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# ? Aug 11, 2018 14:03 |
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https://www.theverge.com/2018/8/13/17670156/deepmind-ai-eye-disease-doctor-moorfieldsquote:Step by step, condition by condition, AI systems are slowly learning to diagnose disease as well as any human doctor, and they could soon be working in a hospital near you. The latest example is from London, where researchers from Google’s DeepMind subsidiary, UCL, and Moorfields Eye Hospital have used deep learning to create software that identifies dozens of common eye diseases from 3D scans and then recommends the patient for treatment.
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# ? Aug 13, 2018 20:18 |
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Cicero posted:https://www.theverge.com/2018/8/13/17670156/deepmind-ai-eye-disease-doctor-moorfields I've read some articles about this kind of tech. Apparently it's run into some trouble when being implemented, as many doctors often refuse to accept AI-proposals, which often adds so much time needed to confirm the AI-interpretation, it ends up taking more time and money than just going with normal doctors in the first place. But this seems different depending on university and often country, so the results of AI programs like this could be vastly different, with sometimes very good, and sometimes very bad results. (Source: Some Scientific American article I've read a couple years ago.)
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# ? Aug 13, 2018 22:35 |
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Interesting Waymo writeup in bloomberg a few weeks ago: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2018-07-31/inside-the-life-of-waymo-s-driverless-test-family quote:The Jackson family, along with some 400 neighbors in their Phoenix suburb, are volunteers in an ongoing test of Waymo’s autonomous ride-hailing business, which is expected to launch for paying passengers in the area by the end of the year. The Jacksons, who Waymo made available for this story, have largely ditched their own cars and now use self-driving vehicles to go almost everywhere within the 100 square-mile operating area: track practice, grocery shopping, movies, the train station.
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# ? Aug 13, 2018 23:01 |
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I don't understand this quotequote:“The question is not just one of cost, it's one of scale,” he says. “Even Waymo, with Alphabet's deep pockets, cannot do this across the country.” Why can't Google run this nationwide? He just said it's not a cost issue, what is the scale issue he's suggesting prevents this? Of all the players in the market today Waymo is probably going to be the gold standard, they've really shown their tech to be reliable and safe.
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# ? Aug 16, 2018 00:24 |
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ElCondemn posted:I don't understand this quote IIRC, Waymo is using scanner cars to build detailed high-resolution 3d maps of every road their self-driving car might drive on, train their AI model against it, and then humans go through the data and program in special-case logic for any bits of the map that their self-driving code can't figure out by itself. That way, the car doesn't need to actually figure out it's surroundings because everything's been LIDAR-mapped and interpreted for it in advance - it just needs to note any obstacles or other difference between the pre-gathered street data and what it's seeing when it happened to drive by. It's an easy solution to "our self-driving car isn't actually smart enough to handle this on the fly", but it's also a fundamentally limited solution: LIDAR-mapping every road in the country, complete with human curation, would be an utterly enormous undertaking. They can handle a couple of cities, but scaling much beyond that would require dedicating massive amounts of resources. It makes it easy to get a demonstration project going with relatively stupid AI, but it's a technological dead end that wont lead to an actual self-driving car. Here's an article: https://www.google.com/amp/amp.timeinc.net/fortune/2018/02/21/google-waymo-mapping-software quote:Making a driverless map, like making a driverless car, is a laborious task. Fleets of autonomous test cars, loaded with expensive lidar sensors and cameras, go out into the world with human backup drivers and capture their surroundings. Plotting the results helps train the next fleet, which will still have safety drivers at the wheel—and, in some cases, scores of additional humans sitting behind computer monitors to catalog all the footage.
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# ? Aug 16, 2018 02:37 |
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Main Paineframe posted:IIRC, Waymo is using scanner cars to build detailed high-resolution 3d maps of every road their self-driving car might drive on, train their AI model against it, and then humans go through the data and program in special-case logic for any bits of the map that their self-driving code can't figure out by itself. To be fair, there are some advantages to getting real-world service going in some capacity as soon as possible. With this, they can start getting people comfortable with actually riding in self-driving cars and working out the logistics of their robo-taxi service while the people on the tech side refine their perception algorithms. That way, they'll be able to quickly expand once they have cars that don't require intricate LIDAR maps.
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# ? Aug 16, 2018 03:37 |
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ElCondemn posted:Why can't Google run this nationwide? He just said it's not a cost issue, what is the scale issue he's suggesting prevents this? the preceding sentence is important quote:While Waymo’s trials have proven the technology is feasible, it's only done so in Arizona's Goldilocks-like conditions of sunny weather and wide streets, says Raj Rajkumar, a computer engineering professor at Carnegie Mellon University. suburban arizona is easy mode for self driving cars. bad weather is infrequent, the roads are spacious, new, and in good repair, and there aren't many pedestrians or cyclists to worry about. the boss level challenge will be like, boston, in the winter
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# ? Aug 16, 2018 06:43 |
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New Waymo puff pieces: https://www.theverge.com/2018/8/21/17762326/waymo-self-driving-ride-hail-fleet-management https://medium.com/waymo/getting-ready-for-more-early-riders-in-phoenix-1699285cbb84 tl;dr "We're still doing poo poo and we're going to 'launch' this year, we swear!" quote:She doesn’t own a car, instead using the company’s vehicles for trips to the train station (when she’s in California) or to her favorite frozen yogurt shop in Phoenix. Cicero fucked around with this message at 13:59 on Aug 21, 2018 |
# ? Aug 21, 2018 13:57 |
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Cicero posted:The fact that their own fleet manager who doesn't own a car -- in Phoenix of all places -- has only done fully driverless a few times is fairly telling, I think. Which is to say, the number of chaperone-less rides is still probably very, very low. I wonder how quickly they can actually ramp that up. Eh, not necessarily. If she had been living without a car for a substantial period of time before their beta testing started, she would have developed her lifestyle around other forms of transportation. If she had sold her car in anticipation of Waymo's service and still not bothered to ride with them much, then that would be cause for concern. And their service is still limited to members of their "early rider" program - they're probably just trying to be really really really really REALLY sure their tech is ready for primetime before they expand.
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# ? Aug 25, 2018 02:00 |
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Waymo has a new blog post about their back of house labor needs: https://medium.com/waymo/getting-ready-for-more-early-riders-in-phoenix-1699285cbb84
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# ? Aug 25, 2018 02:30 |
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self driving cars are decades away. They were hyped like gently caress a couple years ago. Now? Not a peep after those deaths. Might as well be flying cars.
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# ? Aug 25, 2018 20:55 |
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Blue Star posted:self driving cars are decades away. They were hyped like gently caress a couple years ago. Now? Not a peep after those deaths. Might as well be flying cars. You have to define your terms. We have self driving cars with no drivers driving on public roads now. I don’t think self driving cars will replace rural driving anytime soon, but it seems very possible they will compete against jitneys in 2+ metros of over 1M people within 2-5 years. The self driving fanboys can be completely wrong while self driving vehicles do also find a real world economic niche that is viable.
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# ? Aug 25, 2018 21:05 |
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Trabisnikof posted:
Sure. In that jitneys are primarily a dead form of transit with minimal presence in the modern world.
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# ? Aug 25, 2018 21:09 |
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Blue Star posted:self driving cars are decades away. They were hyped like gently caress a couple years ago. Now? Not a peep after those deaths. Might as well be flying cars. The post above yours is literally Google's self driving cars running a taxi service.
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# ? Aug 25, 2018 21:28 |
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mobby_6kl posted:The post above yours is literally Google's self driving cars running a taxi service. In a tiny restricted area of a place with near ideal weather conditions and roads for their purposes. This may shock you, but most humans don't live in horrible Arizona suburbs.
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# ? Aug 25, 2018 21:47 |
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Blue Star posted:Not a peep after those deaths.
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# ? Aug 25, 2018 23:12 |
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My understanding - confirmed by an industry insider close friend - is that Waymo is light years ahead of everyone else. They have most of the technology down, and now need to scale up their operations.fishmech posted:In a tiny restricted area of a place with near ideal weather conditions and roads for their purposes. Maybe you haven’t traveled in the US much, but most Southern cities have similar conditions to Arizona year around. A few might occasionally see snow and ice but it’s pretty rare.
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# ? Aug 26, 2018 12:03 |
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enraged_camel posted:My understanding - confirmed by an industry insider close friend - is that Waymo is light years ahead of everyone else. They have most of the technology down, and now need to scale up their operations. Plus they actually are working on teaching their cars to handle snow: https://www.engadget.com/2018/05/08/waymo-snow-navigation/
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# ? Aug 26, 2018 12:54 |
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enraged_camel posted:Maybe you haven’t traveled in the US much, but most Southern cities have similar conditions to Arizona year around. A few might occasionally see snow and ice but it’s pretty rare. no they dont? cities in the southeast get a ton of rain. the southeast gets more precipitation than the pacific northwest. snow (mostly the impact of snow in an urban environment creating new, irregular hazards) is a big problem for current self driving vehicles but rain is also an issue because of the way it alters road conditions and the behavior of other drivers
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# ? Aug 26, 2018 15:52 |
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"They only are testing in arizona and no where else!" is a thing from like 2 year ago. This isn't a technology you can look up once then expect it to be the same months or years later. The current list (according to bloomburg) that have autonomous cars offically on the road is: Adelaide, AU Amsterdam, NL Ann Arbor, US Arlington, US Austin, US Bad Birnbach, DE Berlin, DE Boston, US Bristol, UK Calgary, CA Cambridge, UK Canberra, AU Chandler, US Chiba City, JP Columbus, US Concord, US Copenhagen, DK Cossonay, CH Darwin, AU Denver, US Detroit, US Dubai, UAE Edmonton, CA Eindhoven, NL Fribourg, CH Frisco, US Gainesville, US Geneva, CH Gothenburg, SE Greenville, US Guangzhou, CN Haarlem, NL Hamburg, DE Helsinki, FI Houston, US Jacksonville, US Kaohsiung, TW Knoxville, US La Rochelle, FR Las Vegas, US Lausanne, CH Lincoln, US London, UK Lyon, FR Miami, US Milton Keynes, UK Montréal, CA Oslo, NO Ottawa, CA Oxford, UK Paris, FR Pittsburgh, US Reno, US Rotterdam, NL Rouen, FR San Antonio, US San Francisco, US San Jose, US San Ramon, US Schaffhausen, CH Seongnam, KR Shenzhen, CN Singapore Sion, CH South Perth, AU Stavanger, NO Stockholm, SE Sydney, AU Taipei, TW Tallinn, EE Tampa, US Tampere, FI Trikala, GR Wageningen, NL Washington, DC, US West Midlands, UK Wuhan, CN Wuhu, CN I'm sure in another 6 months the list will be even longer. It was only in arizona and SF when this thread started but that doesn't mean it's still that.
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# ? Aug 26, 2018 16:08 |
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fishmech posted:In that jitneys are primarily a dead form of transit with minimal presence in the modern world. this is so screamingly wrong we have to be using the word differently... I use 'jitney' for the short-bus/big-van private bus market that runs up an down every major road in every east coast city in the u.s (from personal experience, i assumed they were everywhere). they're like, the bootleg foundation of our "public" transit system. easily hundreds of them driving right this second within 10 miles of me.
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# ? Aug 26, 2018 16:28 |
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:"They only are testing in arizona and no where else!" is a thing from like 2 year ago. This isn't a technology you can look up once then expect it to be the same months or years later. The current list (according to bloomburg) that have autonomous cars offically on the road is:
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# ? Aug 26, 2018 19:45 |
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Cicero posted:Well, it's true that Arizona is the only place where a company seems close to launching something that can handle more than a handful of predefined routes. That is not true though. NuTonomy is a commercial robot taxi that runs right now in singapore
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# ? Aug 26, 2018 20:17 |
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:That is not true though. NuTonomy is a commercial robot taxi that runs right now in singapore According to the most recent NuTonomy press release I can find, they still have company engineers in the vehicles ready to take over: quote:Beginning today, select Singapore residents will be invited to use nuTonomy’s ride-hailing smartphone app to book a no-cost ride in a nuTonomy self-driving car that employs the company’s sophisticated software, which has been integrated with high-performance sensing and computing components. The rides will be provided in a Renault Zoe or Mitsubishi i-MiEV electric vehicle that nuTonomy has specially configured for autonomous driving. An engineer from nuTonomy will ride in the vehicle to observe system performance and assume control if needed to ensure passenger comfort and safety. But they're now owned by Delphi which is a huge sign that the auto parts companies think this is a realistic potential. They've also expanded to Boston, not exactly an AI friendly city either.
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# ? Aug 26, 2018 21:00 |
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Trabisnikof posted:According to the most recent NuTonomy press release I can find, they still have company engineers in the vehicles ready to take over: That sounds exactly like "a company seems close to launching something that can handle more than a handful of predefined routes." which is what he was asking about. Self driving cars are obviously being used in places that aren't a perfect featureless desert like people want to pretend phoenix is.
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# ? Aug 26, 2018 21:23 |
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Even the places they are "featureless deserts" sustain sufficient traffic to make for decent self driving car economics. For instance, all of urban California.
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# ? Aug 26, 2018 22:57 |
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Arizona is so lucky. They get to have self-driving cars AND experience the heat death of the universe.
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# ? Aug 27, 2018 01:51 |
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Trabisnikof posted:You have to define your terms. We have self driving cars with no drivers driving on public roads now. "Competing with illegal taxis in one or two places with a strong presence of legal taxi companies, illegal taxi companies, and robust public transit systems" seems like such a low bar, yet at the same time, still so difficult for self-driving cars to attain. In any case, there's no way they're going to be economically viable as long as they're depending entirely on doing detailed LIDAR-mapping of every single road in advance. What Waymo has so far is just a PR stunt, not a viable product. And even with all that, they're still using both in-person safety drivers and remote drivers.
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# ? Aug 27, 2018 04:47 |
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Main Paineframe posted:In any case, there's no way they're going to be economically viable as long as they're depending entirely on doing detailed LIDAR-mapping of every single road in advance. I don't know if that's true at all. Major metros are both where the majority of taxi-style traffic would be and would be far more reasonable to pre-map. Considering google/waymo has already been heavily LIDAR indexing streets ahead of this it doesn't seem like a meaningful blocker to urban/suburban use. If they open to the general public in Phoenix, it will be hard to argue they don't have a product at that point (even if it remains to be seen if it will be widespread or viable). They have ~400 users now, which qualifies as some sort of large scale private test but it is certainly not actually a publicly available product right now. They're purchasing 62,000 minivans and 20,000 jags so Waymo at least thinks this will be a publicly available product at some point. Trabisnikof fucked around with this message at 05:08 on Aug 27, 2018 |
# ? Aug 27, 2018 05:03 |
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Trabisnikof posted:I don't know if that's true at all. Major metros are both where the majority of taxi-style traffic would be and would be far more reasonable to pre-map. Considering google/waymo has already been heavily LIDAR indexing streets ahead of this it doesn't seem like a meaningful blocker to urban/suburban use. They'd have to stay on top of any road construction that goes on in the service area, but that shouldn't be too bad compared to the cost savings from not having human drivers. Who knows, maybe we'll have Waymo come out with the first robo-taxi service offered to the public at large, and Tesla with the first car where you can buy it, punch in a destination several states away, and go to sleep.
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# ? Aug 27, 2018 12:59 |
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# ? Jun 11, 2024 01:40 |
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Main Paineframe posted:In any case, there's no way they're going to be economically viable as long as they're depending entirely on doing detailed LIDAR-mapping of every single road in advance. That doesn't seem that hard, multiple companies already map and photograph every street for street view. Beyond that there is tons of businesses that already drive everywhere all the time they could partner with to add a lidar mapper to the top (fedex, pizza hut, US mail carriers,whatever) and worst case the self driving cars launch only working in and around cities and go to a less autonomous driver assist mode if you leave the city then maps as you personally drive the new roads that end up in the next update once enough data is collected. Maybe they could even make it a game, give you explorer points if you are the first guy to drive down a new road and let you redeem every 5000 explorer points for an amazon gift card or a pokemon go item or something.
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# ? Aug 27, 2018 13:24 |