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Phrosphor posted:https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/foru...d-more.1116569/ While those read like good changes, I just started recording vids for a Lets Play of this. And now everything is changing.  Speaking of- LP of the vanilla campaign soon fellow Mechwarriors. EDIT- Patch info deserves to be at the top of the page
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Aug 28, 2018 00:59
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I love how salty some of the comments are. One person is already asking for a mod to keep abilities as they are. Even though the point of this beta patch is to try stuff out and give feedback...kiva posted:We put a safeguard in -- your pilot isn’t willing to vent coolant if it will actually kill her -- but aside from that, you’re able to spend your health to push your damage output to its limits. never change and gently caress the haters
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Aug 28, 2018 01:04
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Ugh, I just accidentally updated. I hosed my modded saves didn't I?
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Aug 28, 2018 01:04
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Since I'm just starting the game now, looks like I'll just update to the 1.2 beta from the start. So many bug fixes in that patch list, and I might as well learn to play with the new skills instead of having to relearn everything.
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Aug 28, 2018 01:10
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Cyrano4747 posted:Ugh, I just accidentally updated. Not necessarily! There’s a modtek alpha for 1.2, and it depends on if your mod has updated for 1.2. I’m on the train phone posting. So don’t delete your save just yet
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Aug 28, 2018 01:10
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Cyrano4747 posted:Ugh, I just accidentally updated. Not like Steam gives you the option to not update. It's Wargame modding all over again
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Aug 28, 2018 01:10
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I R SMART LIKE ROCK posted:I love how salty some of the comments are. One person is already asking for a mod to keep abilities as they are. Even though the point of this beta patch is to try stuff out and give feedback... Pleeeeeease play the changes; we've done so much theorycrafting on this, like hours and hours and hours of it, i'm so loving sick of theorycrafting Bulwark at this point. I just want people to hammer these abilities and figure out all the brokenness we didn't catch in our (much smaller) internal playtesting. quote:never change and gently caress the haters
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Aug 28, 2018 01:18
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I actually loved my Evasive/Bulwark pilots as leapfrogging skirmishers rather than the whole "Bulwark users stand still all fight, and Evasive isn't worth it compared to master tactics!" deal. So with that mentality of "Why would I stand still all match?" even taking bulwark on my frontliners, these changes feel self defeating honestly. The "problem" claimed with Bulwark was that it encouraged sitting still, and that they want to encourage mobility... But if Bulwark is now activated by sitting still smashing your brace button, so... What difference will people who spend the whole fight in one spot notice? Meanwhile, anybody who wants to move is going to have to essentially skip their turn bracing constantly to get any use out of it. Old evasive was loving GREAT for heavy and assault mechs. "Always near the evasion cap anyways" is the reason they are cutting it? How is anybody getting anywhere near the evasion cap in a heavy or assault mech? 4 Evasive pips on my Jump Jet's Orion let me pull off so much bullshit thanks to Evasive Move. Meanwhile, when are you going to be using enough light mechs in the assault spam endgame for a stability buff to matter? (If you don't simply get cored out by anything that could knock you over). Oh and Juggernaut is so trash they just gave up on it. Then gave you a self harm button... Juggernaut was SO BAD, they think that maiming your own pilots is anywhere near a 'trade off' for not suffering 1 extra day of repairs in the late game? Not set in stone etc etc. But I'm fascinated at how, at least from how I've used these skills. The changes touted to encourage mobility, discourage it instead.
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Aug 28, 2018 01:49
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Nu-wark is basically a super Brace ability. So standing still and shooting gives no bonus, its either shoot or be invulnerable
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Aug 28, 2018 02:00
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Paingod556 posted:Nu-wark is basically a super Brace ability. So standing still and shooting gives no bonus, its either shoot or be invulnerable Coolant Flush is an interesting one, it's your always alpha option, though you are trading pilot injuries for garenteed cooling. It should speed fights up a lot. I like Sure-Footed a lot, it will help lights and mediums stay on their feet when getting lrmslrmed.
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Aug 28, 2018 02:04
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I R SMART LIKE ROCK posted:Not necessarily! There’s a modtek alpha for 1.2, and it depends on if your mod has updated for 1.2. I’m on the train phone posting. So don’t delete your save just yet I hope so, I just started a roguetech game, looked kinda fun, but didn't get out of the light/medium stage just yet.
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Aug 28, 2018 02:06
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Paingod556 posted:Nu-wark is basically a super Brace ability. So standing still and shooting gives no bonus, its either shoot or be invulnerable But reducing it to a "Only on empty turns" isn't doing mobile play any favors either. To be fair, I've always treated bullwark was my "Jump in, and now once you are stuck in you're able to better deal with rigged odds" closer. My Gauss Highlanger would always end up in melee range of something sooner or later, with that extra pip of evasive helping him out. It often made the difference for my Grasshopper being able to core out the back of one mech, then survive without losing an arm once the enemy assault spam took offense I brought a heavy to the endgame. So the perks to "Jump closer to the enemy, THEN start shooting" life is what I'll be missing. "Jump closer with good evasive pips. Then once they are gone you take less damage." Mobile as gently caress without being screwed over when you could not afford to move or brace. I'm sure all the theory craft was focusing on people just standing their 60 LRM bots or rangefinder gauss bots in the middle of an open field, so I guess mechs that never needed bulwark in the first place might feel the changes to bulwark a lot more. EDIT: Basically I was all hyped for what they would do to encourage mobility, and found instead my biggest benefits to a mobile heavy skirmisher play style are collateral damage in trying to prevent "LRM boat with bulwark" sniping  Being asked to be thankful for a self harm button just to rubs it in.Hardly the end of the world though, just means I'll be a late arrival at the Master Tactics spam station  Game won't get harder if all I need to do is shrug and up my tonnage instead of stubbornly using lighter mechs than every random pirate is fielding."Don't need bulwark if I'm shooting from outside visual range"  "How's the mobility gameplay treating you Hopper?""Everything is pain" "Hah, that's what you get for 'abusing bulwark' in the launch build. Now keep spotting for me as I stand still all mission. Gosh I'm so nerfed by these changes." Section Z fucked around with this message at 02:41 on Aug 28, 2018 |
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Aug 28, 2018 02:07
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Cyrano4747 posted:Ugh, I just accidentally updated. The Dipshit posted:I hope so, I just started a roguetech game, looked kinda fun, but didn't get out of the light/medium stage just yet. I just remembered that RogueTech has it's own installer and I have no idea how that interacts with all this but here's how I got it working last night:
* My save borking was well after the game loaded up. I started a new campaign just to check and everything was working as expected
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Aug 28, 2018 02:33
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I'm flushing my coolant all over the place!
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Aug 28, 2018 02:44
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Coolant flush is incredibly loving stupid. It's very dumb that there are 8 skill slots in the game and now none of them will have anything to do with melee combat. Also change the name of Sensor Lock to something like Sensor Burst. Furthermore,
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Aug 28, 2018 02:48
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Sandwich Anarchist posted:Coolant flush is incredibly loving stupid. It's very dumb that there are 8 skill slots in the game and now none of them will have anything to do with melee combat or evasion. At least with bulwark I can see the dev team throwing up their hands and declaring they are taking their ball and going home, after not working out how to encourage "Move closer, THEN stand still while shooting! Repeat" while also punishing "Stand still forever, also shoot" Coolant causing self harm I can see coming from Kiva though. The dev who upped hospital stay times at the last second before launch after all. So more ways to bench your pilots seems on brand.
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Aug 28, 2018 02:52
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Really, the campaign was pretty short, so padding out play time with waits makes sense from their point of view. I think it was also a way they thought to encourage players to have a large roster, but they declined to put in any kind of timers or really anything at all to encourage urgency rather than waiting for your a team to be ready again.
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Aug 28, 2018 02:56
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Dekker - 53 days in the medbay after all his skin burned off
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Aug 28, 2018 02:58
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My OC is in the medbay for 90+ days because the enemies decided "gently caress you and your new catapult" and basically ripped off everything but the torso and legs.
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Aug 28, 2018 03:02
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Synthbuttrange posted:Dekker - 53 days in the medbay after all his skin burned off But you just know some people are going to be hammering that coolant button just to hear glitch scream. "But WHY!!?"  "Tactical reasons" 
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Aug 28, 2018 03:12
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Sandwich Anarchist posted:Really, the campaign was pretty short, so padding out play time with waits makes sense from their point of view. I think it was also a way they thought to encourage players to have a large roster, but they declined to put in any kind of timers or really anything at all to encourage urgency rather than waiting for your a team to be ready again. With Flashpoint creating chained contracts/deployments, that urgency to have enough people/mechs to field will be there. So at least they're addressing that aspect.
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Aug 28, 2018 03:13
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Sandwich Anarchist posted:Really, the campaign was pretty short, so padding out play time with waits makes sense from their point of view. I think it was also a way they thought to encourage players to have a large roster, but they declined to put in any kind of timers or really anything at all to encourage urgency rather than waiting for your a team to be ready again. You mean the thing they're literally adding in an upcoming patch?
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Aug 28, 2018 03:21
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Sandwich Anarchist posted:Really, the campaign was pretty short, so padding out play time with waits makes sense from their point of view. I think it was also a way they thought to encourage players to have a large roster, but they declined to put in any kind of timers or really anything at all to encourage urgency rather than waiting for your a team to be ready again. Time until insolvency was meant to fulfill that purpose but vanilla difficulty generally wouldn't put you in that kind of duress. You basically needed to spend your money stupidly right before going on a catastrophic mission (and refuse to retreat) to end up in that kind of crunch.
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Aug 28, 2018 03:24
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Jabor posted:You mean the thing they're literally adding in an upcoming patch? You may have missed all the past tense in my post.
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Aug 28, 2018 03:38
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Paingod556 posted:Nu-wark is basically a super Brace ability. So standing still and shooting gives no bonus, its either shoot or be invulnerable The old meta was Vigilance then jumping forward into a good position and sitting still there trading fire. New meta is Vigilance then jumping forward into cover, then sitting still trading fire until you hit your heat cap and either become invulnerable for a turn to vent, or eat one of your ablative cockpit mod injuries to instantly vent and keep firing. The new system is going to encourage running hotter builds.
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Aug 28, 2018 04:43
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Deliberately barbecuing your pilots makes upgrading medbay and having a large reserve of pilots relevant. In RogueTech there's a Small Cockpit option which saves you a ton and takes less space but one downside is that your pilots get hurt when you overheat. It's also going to be interesting to see how the AI handles it, if they basically commit suicide trying to keep their heat down.
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Aug 28, 2018 04:57
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I don't ever think they'll fix that. I've never encountered a Grasshopper, Cata K2, Awesome, or Battlemaster that wasn't hellbent on cooking itself.
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Aug 28, 2018 05:49
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I really like how RogueTech does it because you risk shutdowns or ammo explosions with overheating. This means you can really gamble with energy builds but shutting down when you barely overheated can be crippling. There's also the fact that heat reduction /turn, overheat threshold, and max heat are all different stats. You only shut down for sure when you hit max heat, so on some builds like Marauder II you can overheat to a crazy degree And since the AI is stuck with crappy stock builds there are some variants that are nearly suicidal for them, especially if you help the process along with heat weapons.
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Aug 28, 2018 07:02
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loving  these PPC and sensor lock changes sure seem to favor the AI.My highlander (which of course, was headshot dinged on the literal first enemy attack after sprinting pips), got sensor locked (AFTER the headshot, of course). Then nailed by a pair of shreks on the second turn of combat. So had a +8 difficulty modifier and thus Later, Glitch walked up to a Shrek PPC carrier with +6 difficulty inflicted, and had a 60% hit chance with small lasers (I was 1 hex too far for melee, so literally right next to the shrek). My hot poo poo +++ 4 bonus accuracy medium lasers had a 75% chance to shoot the Shrek point blank.  An enemy zeus as part of the pre-placed lance. Got to have brace+bulwark active in the middle of a tree line. Guess I should kite more often rather than engage mobility, or get back to into the groove of reserve spamming. You know, the usual options that don't encourage proactive mobility. As expected a lot of this feels like Buffs to the AI, dressed up as "Better player skills". I mean, when is the player gonna have 9+ PPCs firing per turn (Oh, hello mister Awesome) on average with sensor locks to spare? Oh, right. My "stand still and shoot" Stalker proceeded to stand still and shoot as if nothing had changed between patches. My no bullwark "Fat scout" Thunderbolt also had an easy time of things because why would it even need Bulwark on all it's single LRM20 potshot and sensor lock turns? AI loves to focus down the easiest targets, even if I'm only two hexes behind my frontliners. Coolant seems that (Currently) cockpit mods DO buffer against it. But I need those buffer points for random headshots. With further torture testing ("aaaugh, I'm bleeding commander"  ), a 10 guts pilot, with a max upgrades Argo = SIX days benched. So, again. Imagine this without being in a postgame fully maxed out state.Fake Edit: I just did some save/load juggling. Coolant has an exploit already(?) It appears, so far. That loading a save made after you use coolant tanked by a cockpit mod. The cockpit health is restored? At the very least, my grey armor meter is maxed out again as I reload standing next to the cored out remains of a Zeus with my empty heat meter. Section Z fucked around with this message at 07:25 on Aug 28, 2018 |
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Aug 28, 2018 07:16
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Call me pessimistic but the biggest impact I can see from these changes is buffing the AI by making their random sensor locks actually do something and removing bulwark / evasive move which the AI wasn't very good at using most of the time anyway but the player gained benefit from every single turn.
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Aug 28, 2018 07:44
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RabidWeasel posted:Call me pessimistic but the biggest impact I can see from these changes is buffing the AI by making their random sensor locks actually do something and removing bulwark / evasive move which the AI wasn't very good at using most of the time anyway but the player gained benefit from every single turn. So I can easily see where you are coming from. Even before how depressing it is to trigger injury lines with a press of a button But how could anyone have possibly known boiling your pilots alive is bad until after live testing? 
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Aug 28, 2018 07:49
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Sandwich Anarchist posted:Coolant flush is incredibly loving stupid. It's very dumb that there are 8 skill slots in the game and now none of them will have anything to do with melee combat. Also change the name of Sensor Lock to something like Sensor Burst. Furthermore, Juggernaut should have turned into a passive that makes melee attacks called shots and causes you to brace on using them.
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Aug 28, 2018 07:57
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isildur posted:People want to theorycraft everything to death. Glitch is the only pilot that matters, so "her" in that sentence makes perfect sense anyways.
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Aug 28, 2018 08:29
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Alchenar posted:Juggernaut should have turned into a passive that makes melee attacks called shots and causes you to brace on using them. Don't even need the called shot aspect tbh. Just getting brace after wading in would do wonders.
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Aug 28, 2018 09:29
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Cynic Jester posted:Don't even need the called shot aspect tbh. Just getting brace after wading in would do wonders. Nah, I think an inability to make called melee shots on mechs, even when they're shut down/fallen over so it would be a free called shot if shooting is one of the main things that makes melee always sub-optimal. Honestly I think the way to fix skills is to not make them exclusive. When you have to pick two of 4 skill trees then the skills will either be inconsequential or no-brainer choices. And if we were able to start with a blank slate, I'd actually take something from  and give every mech a single linear skill tree (with massive overlap of traits), and pilots gain experience/affinity only with the mech they are piloting. ie. if Dekker spends ten missions in a firestarter then he gets super loving good at using a firestarter and gets a bonus to flamer heat output or something but then if you put him in an Atlas he's going to struggle to find all the controls for a bit. Pilots get genuine specialisations back and you can sneak in mech traits through the unique skill tree lines to add a bit of variety.
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Aug 28, 2018 10:45
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The new patch (I'm not playing on beta, so I'm not seeing all of these stupid changes to the skill tree) has broken amechwarrior's AI mod! All mechs and vehicles just move and then brace. This was in the Smithon campaign mission, and then a regular mission afterward. I re-ran the BTML injector after patching. Other mods (merc deployments, better juggernaut, panic system, and PPC heat to 30) all appear to be working fine. EDIT: anyone else using this mod see this issue?
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Aug 28, 2018 12:29
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I'm sad that Evasive Move is gone, that was a cool ability. Bulwark was broken in it's old form and needed to go. Juggernaut I'd have preferd to be tweaked because having a melee skill anywhere in the skills just feels right. Coolant Shot doesn't fit my playstyle and doesn't really fit the current state of the game, but I can see it being really interesting with the upcoming DLC. Gonna need more playtime though to see if there's any balance issues with the new setup. New Bulwark and Guarded mechanics especially will need shitloads of testing. Edit: Here's my problem with Coolant Shot - to really take advantage of it, you need to design a Mech that runs really hot. Which means you basically link a pilot to a mech. But then if you use Coolant Shot your pilot is out of comission, which unllinks your pilot from your mech. The self-damage and ensuing hospital time is directly opposed to the fact that it encourages you to design the mech for that specific pilot. I like hotswapping pilots, but that means Mechs need to be generic enough to work with most pilots. With mechbay slots being as limited as they are (for most of the game) you really can't afford to have a specialized mech that only one pilot can use properly. DatonKallandor fucked around with this message at 13:33 on Aug 28, 2018 |
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Aug 28, 2018 13:15
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Evasive move was boring even if it was effective and I'm glad it's gone. I agree that a melee-oriented skill would be nice to have, I just think juggernaut wasn't it. I'm glad bulwark is gone. Coolant flush only seems to impact hot-running mechs and i found it hard to use it because of RPG hoarder syndrome, basically. I rarely found taking a wound was worthwhile in my early/mid game and i think cockpit mods and a maxed medbay would mean I would use it pretty freely in the lategame because it would be basically free. Those are my preliminary thoughts.
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Aug 28, 2018 13:41
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The biggest problem with Evasive Move is that it was, perversely, actively harmful to the long term viability of Light Mechs. Now they just need to up the individual effectiveness of each Evasive Pip.
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Aug 28, 2018 14:20
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DatonKallandor posted:I'm sad that Evasive Move is gone, that was a cool ability. Bulwark was broken in it's old form and needed to go. Juggernaut I'd have preferd to be tweaked because having a melee skill anywhere in the skills just feels right. Coolant Shot doesn't fit my playstyle and doesn't really fit the current state of the game, but I can see it being really interesting with the upcoming DLC. It seems like the obvious choice is to have multiple coolant shot pilots, that you rotate through that single mech?
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Aug 28, 2018 14:25
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