Battletech - Urban Warcrimes: So quoth the RVN-3L, Arrow IV.

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > Battletech - Urban Warcrimes: So quoth the RVN-3L, Arrow IV.

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Runa: Feb 13, 2011

The base design of the shiro isn't bad at all because they told me to change nothing about it.

EDIT: IMO my lineart is worse than the model but my FM3145 illo turned out p. okay

Runa fucked around with this message at 01:52 on Sep 4, 2018

# ? Sep 4, 2018 01:47

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# ? May 29, 2024 23:06

Sky Shadowing: Feb 13, 2012; At least we're not the Thalmor (yet)

Panfilo posted:

Oh right.

It is pretty cool how the Clans were so impressed by that kamikaze attack that basically decapitated their leadership for a year that they wrote some poetic saga about it and named a ship after her.

They didn't write a Poetic saga about it, they wrote it into the Remembrance, which is basically the oral history of the most important parts of the history of the Clan(s). I'm not sure but I think it's one of the highest honors (or, if what you did was monumentally stupid, greatest disgraces) to be included in it, right?

# ? Sep 4, 2018 01:56

Panfilo: Aug 27, 2011; Can't post for 13 days!

Artistic license often left me puzzled as to how some mechs were loading much less storing all the LRM ammo. Like they tended to get the number of tubes right but the diameter of the missiles was all over the place. I assume LRM racks are loaded by some kind of pinsetter mechanism.

The Hunchback traditionally had its AC/20 basically a giant box with a huge hole in the front. There's a few other mechs with comically huge bores for their AC/20 as well, even though the calibers don't really get past 175mm for the heaviest models which is almost a quarter the diameter. Same deal with the AC/2 on many heavier mechs where it's just a hole in their front vs the long sleek barrel you see on a Blackjack.

Omnimechs by design allow for a much more consistent appearance but also make each specific variant less distinctive.

# ? Sep 4, 2018 02:01

Strobe: Jun 30, 2014; GW BRAINWORMS CREW

There's at least one AC that's described as a 203 mm at one point.

The correct response, however, is "don't think about it", especially when it comes to something like the Thunder.

# ? Sep 4, 2018 02:04

Panfilo: Aug 27, 2011; Can't post for 13 days!

Sky Shadowing posted:

They didn't write a Poetic saga about it, they wrote it into the Remembrance, which is basically the oral history of the most important parts of the history of the Clan(s). I'm not sure but I think it's one of the highest honors (or, if what you did was monumentally stupid, greatest disgraces) to be included in it, right?

Yeah, that's right:

quote:

Tyra of the Rasalhague led,
Forth her fiery flying Drak�ns,
Gallant in bronze. A warrior woman whose hands
Were unskilled in the ways of hearth and home,
In skills of war she was hard and trained
To leave behind the airy winds and fight
Where the void is eternal and life fleeting.
Tyra and her warriors fought
Like crazed demons above Radstadt.
When her fighter was crippled by ours,
And her life leaked away into the endless night,
She chose to die
And sent her fighter like a spear
Through the�Dire Wolf,�claiming asisorla
Our mighty ilKhan's life. Sing of our loss, warriors!
Sing, but of Tyra also,
For though an enemy, her courage none can deny.
�The Remembrance, Passage 294, Verse 8, Lines 17-33

The Clans were likely impressed that Tyra sacrificed herself in an effort to stop her enemy rather than flee. Her squadron could've fled but they did one more fun which kicked off the whole thing.

# ? Sep 4, 2018 02:05

Panfilo: Aug 27, 2011; Can't post for 13 days!

Strobe posted:

There's at least one AC that's described as a 203 mm at one point.

The correct response, however, is "don't think about it", especially when it comes to something like the Thunder.

Forget the autocannon, what the HELL is up with that thing's feet?

# ? Sep 4, 2018 02:08

Strobe: Jun 30, 2014; GW BRAINWORMS CREW

Don't think about it.

# ? Sep 4, 2018 02:09

Runa: Feb 13, 2011

Strobe posted:

Don't think about it.

# ? Sep 4, 2018 02:13

Panfilo: Aug 27, 2011; Can't post for 13 days!

I can't . People joke about the Urbanmech being a trashcan with feet but it works . This thing looks like it'll trip over itself as soon as it tries to take a step. Hermes, Vindicator, etc had these big flipper feet but I imagine they would be practical for assisting in weight distribution. Catapult has bird feet and there's an illustration of one gripping the top of a ridge for stability which makes sense. But this thing? :psyduck:

# ? Sep 4, 2018 02:13

Strobe: Jun 30, 2014; GW BRAINWORMS CREW

The Thunder is one of those special 'Mechs that really deserves some new art to fix the bizarro proportions, but at the end of the day

Strobe posted:

Don't think about it.

# ? Sep 4, 2018 02:19

Klyith: Aug 3, 2007; GBS Pledge Week

Panfilo posted:

It would've been better if it was more similar to grimdark 40k fluff, where super rare ancient forgotten tech is at least still numerous to make sense in such numbers.

nah 40k makes even less sense than battletech, it just spends less time trying to build logical foundations underneath the rule of cool

The basic concept of battletech is that guy in stompy robit = medieval knight in full armor. That works fine for most of their setting fluff, but has always fallen apart for videogames where you have a PC who starts with a locust and ends in an atlas. The player wants to progress through better and better mechs as they progress through the hero's journey, because that's fun. So then the videogame is trying to respect the whole "mechs are super-valuable" fluff, while at the same time they move the player through an entire buffet of mechs over the course of a few dozen missions.

NihilCredo posted:

If you take max salvage and end up facing a bunch of tanks or lovely common 'Mechs, losing a few hundred thousands in cash is kind of annoying.

If you take less than max salvage and you end up facing a lone ramshackle Atlas on a 3-star mission, you're going to want to throw your mouse out of the window. Don't ask how I know.

I think if I was designing it from scratch I'd reverse the order of the decisions for contract rewards. Have contracts put up a static offer of money, then haggle over salvage after the fight. It would be relatively easy to give that a ton of personality with some very simple programming. Ex: planetary governments are skinflints so they deduct a fair percentage of the salvage value from your salary. But they're also afraid of you so they let you take whatever you want. The big successor state Houses are rich so they give you a better deal, but they claim a bunch of loot for themselves. Pulling that stuff back to your side of the table costs rep. Kamea is on your side so she gives you stuff practically for free, but she's also trying to build an army here. So she wants at least 50% of the total pile (so if there are 2 king crab parts on the table, you probably only get one).

That's the type of system that makes salvaged mechs feel important and valuable, because you see what you're paying for them. Plus scoring a complete mech from one mission is both difficult and expensive. It doesn't punish for guessing wrong about salvage pre-mission. And it would allow the store to be a little less crazy with the buy:sell values.

# ? Sep 4, 2018 03:25

Nektu: Jul 4, 2007; FUKKEN FUUUUUUCK; Cybernetic Crumb

Look at it:

Just look at that loving crab!

That fucker just now skittered over the whole battlefield at a gazzilion kph and headbutted the arm carrying my sole clan gauss rifle RIGHT OFF.
Then it proceeded to just dance around us for 4 rounds until it got hungry again. Then it took a leg in one gulp.

Then finally after puring whole truckloads of ammo in its generat direction (the hit percentages where 10% at best), it got careless and stopped with only two evasion pips to finish off the mech that it had crippled earlier. The revenge was terrible, but im still reloading this.

# ? Sep 4, 2018 09:24

Luigi Thirty: Apr 30, 2006; Emergency confection port.

Glitch just sniped the Enemy Spy�s Vindicator with a PPC from halfway across the map in a robit with one arm and one leg. What a hero.

I gotta say I miss Mechwarrior 4 Mercs and its first person robot fighting.

# ? Sep 4, 2018 09:39

Angry Lobster: May 16, 2011; Served with honor
and some clarified butter.

Finished the story missions for the first time, man I have had this savegame lying around since release day but been too lazy to finish it. I'm extremely dissapointed I was not able to salvage that sweet King Crab or the Awesome.

# ? Sep 4, 2018 14:46

General Battuta: Feb 7, 2011; This is how you communicate with a fellow intelligence: you hurt it, you keep on hurting it, until you can distinguish the posts from the screams.

Luigi Thirty posted:

Glitch just sniped the Enemy Spy�s Vindicator with a PPC from halfway across the map in a robit with one arm and one leg. What a hero.

I gotta say I miss Mechwarrior 4 Mercs and its first person robot fighting.

Come play Living Legends, the best Battletech sim ever made!*

*multiplayer only and it crashes every so often but hey, that's the price of free

Klyith posted:

The basic concept of battletech is that guy in stompy robit = medieval knight in full armor. That works fine for most of their setting fluff, but has always fallen apart for videogames where you have a PC who starts with a locust and ends in an atlas. The player wants to progress through better and better mechs as they progress through the hero's journey, because that's fun. So then the videogame is trying to respect the whole "mechs are super-valuable" fluff, while at the same time they move the player through an entire buffet of mechs over the course of a few dozen missions.

The analogy even falls apart after 3025, and by 3065 (when everyone has reindustrialized) most battles in the setting are company-strength to regiment-strength engagements with dozens or hundreds of mechs in play. By that point the analogy is more like 'guy in stompy robit = tank but a little more so'. This is part of why Battletech is a lovely board game: it's highly simulationist, with a die roll for everything from firing your gauss rifle to stepping on a pea, so when you put more than about six assets on the board it bogs down into a multi-day clusterfuck.

Dark Age was an attempt to get back to the 'one mech = mighty force' standard but nobody liked it.

Seriously it's just unbelievable how many die rolls it takes to do some things in the board game. Let's try to fire an LB-20X autocannon:

quote:

Using your pilot's gunnery skill as a base, add modifiers for whether you've walked/run/jumped this turn, whether your mech is running hot, whether you have a targeting computer (not applicable here), whether your weapon has a special to-hit bonus (yes) and any related poo poo I've forgotten. Don't forget to check whether you have actuator damage which could hurt the shot.

Now add modifiers for your target's motion this turn (NOT the same as the above, this keys off total hexes the target has moved) and range to target, referencing the weapon's short/medium/long range brackets. Also any penalties if target has some form of active camo/stealth/whatnot.

Now check intervening terrain for smoke/partial cover/low light conditions/whatever and add appropriate penalties.

Roll 2d6. You rolled above your target number, congratulations, it's a hit!

Now roll on the Cluster Hits Table to see how many of the 20 pellets you fired just hit. Let's say you get 17 pellets hit.

Check the attacking unit's facing vs. the target unit to determine if you should roll on the front hit location table, left side, right side, or rear.

Now, 17 times, once, for each pellet, roll the following:

Roll 2d6 and check the hit location table to see where the pellet strikes. Mark off one bubble of armor/internal structure.

If the pellet strikes internal structure, OR if you roll a '2' for your hit location, roll 2d6 to see if a critical hit occurs (8+).

If a critical hit occurs, roll on the 1d6/2d6 chart for that area of the target to see which component is struck, rerolling if you get a result which doesn't strike an internal component.

If the critical hit strikes ammunition, immediately detonate the ammunition, applying damage first to this location and then transferring remaining damage inward (unless CASE is present).

If the cockpit is hit, roll to see if the pilot falls unconscious.

If a gyro is hit, or if the mech has taken >19 damage this round, roll a piloting skill check to see if the mech falls. If the mech falls, roll the fall direction, then compute the fall damage based on the mech's tonnage and the distance to the ground, splitting it into 5-point clusters and allocating it as you would one of the LBX pellets (with all resulting chances for crits and pilot hits).

Repeat the above steps until all 17 pellets have been resolved.

Congratulations, you've fired one weapon on one mech (and we skipped over the minor bookkeeping of ammo and heat). Total die rolls? UNKNOWN

# ? Sep 4, 2018 15:14

Panfilo: Aug 27, 2011; Can't post for 13 days!

General Battuta posted:

Come play Living Legends, the best Battletech sim ever made!*

*multiplayer only and it crashes every so often but hey, that's the price of free

The analogy even falls apart after 3025, and by 3065 (when everyone has reindustrialized) most battles in the setting are company-strength to regiment-strength engagements with dozens or hundreds of mechs in play. By that point the analogy is more like 'guy in stompy robit = tank but a little more so'. This is part of why Battletech is a lovely board game: it's highly simulationist, with a die roll for everything from firing your gauss rifle to stepping on a pea, so when you put more than about six assets on the board it bogs down into a multi-day clusterfuck.

Dark Age was an attempt to get back to the 'one mech = mighty force' standard but nobody liked it.

Seriously it's just unbelievable how many die rolls it takes to do some things in the board game. Let's try to fire an LB-20X autocannon:

Congratulations, you've fired one weapon on one mech (and we skipped over the minor bookkeeping of ammo and heat). Total die rolls? UNKNOWN

This is why I liked Megamek/this game so much. It greatly streamlines a lot of the dice rolls. Some weapons could be particularly tedious, like if you fired a lot of missiles or LBX cluster rounds. Though one funny thing was how quickly you memorize a lot of the to-hit values since you are rolling for them so drat much.

People who haven't played the TT are also kind of spoiled, since there was a fair amount of RNG bullshittery that could utterly screw you:

-When hitting internal structure, 8+ was a critical hit, 11 I think was 2 crits and 12 either blew the location away entirely or for center torso was 3 crits. This occurred more than you'd think. and it wasn't that hard for a single SRM or submunition pellet to completely blow a side torso off.

-Engine crits removed built in heat sinks and were crippling on mechs that would already run hot. RogueTech factors this in, and means an XL/XXL engine with a lot of lasers is very risky.

-A bad roll on Ultra autocannon would jam them. Real fun when it happened on the very first shot of the battle.

-There were more piloting skill checks. Roguetech also has this, and as a result mechs fell down a lot more, took damage from falling more, and suffered cascading and catastrophic destruction when your mech falls backward hard enough to set off the ammo and blow the whole chassis to kingdom come. Rough terrain also had piloting skill checks, as well as jumping in forests/rough terrain so some moves and areas were more risky. Ditto for missing a melee attack attempt.

-Losing a leg absolutely crippled you. They changed this in later PC games since the prevailing strategy was to leg the enemy to immobilize them I guess (in the sim games, circle strafing while aiming at the closest leg with pulse lasers was an annoying tactic in multiplayer Mechwarrior 3). If you lost a leg you could walk at all, and were limited in weapons because a free hand was required to prop the mech up just to be able to shoot. You could still jump, albeit with a considerable piloting skill penalty when landing, and jump jets definitely gave you a bit of an insurance on losing a leg. One of the most badass desperation moves was also doing a Death From Above in this situation, a Hail Mary of Hail Mary attack that very occasionally would succeed.

# ? Sep 4, 2018 18:19

Lord Stimperor: Jun 13, 2018; I'm a lovable meme.

Any news on the new 'Mechwarrior game? I remember the trailer and it received kind of mixed reactions.

# ? Sep 4, 2018 18:26

Psion: Dec 13, 2002; eVeN I KnOw wHaT CoRnEr gAs iS

I always liked how actually simulating mech combat, in terms of first-person piloting them, exposed how blatantly bad of an idea bipedal war machines are. That is, legging giant bipedal war machines is and should be the dominant tactic because putting your giant war machine on two sticks with knees is a horrible idea and the ease of legging enemies to disable them proves it. But much like ... well, most of BT, "just don't think about it."

Lord Stimperor posted:

Any news on the new 'Mechwarrior game? I remember the trailer and it received kind of mixed reactions.

PGI's mechwarrior 5? Delayed to 2019.

Psion fucked around with this message at 18:34 on Sep 4, 2018

# ? Sep 4, 2018 18:30

Panfilo: Aug 27, 2011; Can't post for 13 days!

Psion posted:

I always liked how actually simulating mech combat, in terms of first-person piloting them, exposed how blatantly bad of an idea bipedal war machines are. That is, legging giant bipedal war machines is and should be the dominant tactic because putting your giant war machine on two sticks with knees is a horrible idea and the ease of legging enemies to disable them proves it.

That's probably why they had to go back and change it. Several weapons in the sim games went through several iterations:

-LRMS went from lock-on weapons that took several seconds to home in to point-and-shoot, later games would always have them fire in a parabolic arc making it easier to hit. Ironically in sim games jumping made these kinds of weapons easier to hit, not harder.

-SRMs were dumb fire and often just one missile at a time and didn't feel terribly useful.

-Very long range weapons were more useful since it's easier to kite slower enemies.

-In Mechwarrior 3 pulse lasers fired a continuous beam for a short time which was really cool and had the advantage of cutting it short to conserve heat. Most others had them as 'pewpewpew' type lasers.

-Don't remember any Sims that did melee, you could technically do death from above but collision was janky. Too bad, because having melee would be a great way to piss off grognards.

-Jumping in some games was a single hop, often with a floaty descent that left you vulnerable. Others let you actually feather your jump Jets making them far more useful. Different gravity also made them massively more effective.

-Some crits and effects were cooler ; being affected by ECM or damaged sensors affected your interface, suffering pilot hits would black you out momentarily, getting hit by PPCs would scramble the interface a bit, etc.

-Projectile speed is a much bigger factor in a sim, older games had PPC projectiles that were so slow a jumping mech could outrun them and easily strafe out of the way.

-Falls were based on crits and frontloaded damage but piloting the mech had very little toward preventing them.

# ? Sep 4, 2018 18:47

General Battuta: Feb 7, 2011; This is how you communicate with a fellow intelligence: you hurt it, you keep on hurting it, until you can distinguish the posts from the screams.

If you care at all about the first-person mechwarrior simulation side of the franchise you need to try Living Legends. It has far and away the best implementation of the mechanics, plus you can drive vehicles/battle armor/aircraft. The balance is exquisite due to the extremely good choice to have no loving mechlab, and they've solved the usual MechWarrior problems like poptarting/legging/LRM hell.

# ? Sep 4, 2018 18:56

Amechwarrior: Jan 29, 2007

So what's everyone's thoughts on the Abilities Beta?

I've only done two skirmishes so far and I can see Coolant Flush being exploited in custom PvP (all PPC AWS, no HS) or even stock with units like the STK and BL.KNT that have far too many weapons to sustain normal fire. Sure Footing seems nice, the tooltip says it also gives the extra Pip which the dev post doesn't seem to suggest. However, this might makes KDs harder in addition to the previous rebalance of the Stab bar. I think I'll need more time to dig in to that one, but it feels right that I'd want my basic pilots to go Gun/Piloting instead of Gun/Guts. The new Bulwark seems made to exploit Jump/Bracing vs the AI where you can absolutely control the LoS to only give that one target to the enemy forces. This will probably also speed up PvP matches as everyone will be dealing 100-75% damage vs 75-50%. Bulwark might be way better in SP as you have the choice to use Vigilance and still shoot unlike PvP mode. The new SL perk is nice, this should really help out the AI turrets that can't get LoS to actually contribute something.

# ? Sep 4, 2018 19:11

ulmont: Sep 15, 2010; IF I EVER MISS VOTING IN AN ELECTION (EVEN AMERICAN IDOL) ,OR HAVE UNPAID PARKING TICKETS, PLEASE TAKE AWAY MY FRANCHISE

Amechwarrior posted:

So what's everyone's thoughts on the Abilities Beta?

Running through a new campaign with the beta so I haven't managed to make it to get any of the new cool poo poo.

Going to try out a bunch of people with Coolant Flush and Sensor Lock, though. So far I've been using Sensor Lock more than before as something to do that doesn't cost heat, but the jury is still out re: Coolant Flush.

# ? Sep 4, 2018 19:45

Organ Fiend: May 21, 2007; custom title

Cyrano4747 posted:

I�ve been wondering the same thing. I need to turn auto patch off for this game. It kinda bummed me out as I had a great mix of mods. Need to write down what I had.

This mod collection has updated versions (not released by the developers) of mods that are compatible with the 0.4 alpha of BTML and with the 1.2 patch of BATTLETECH. I'm merc deployments, better AI and panic system from this mod collection (its all modular, so you can just copy paste the mod folders you want. Hope your favorite mods are in here too.

https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/modpack-dz_consolidated_company_commander.1099514/

# ? Sep 4, 2018 21:03

Horace Kinch: Aug 15, 2007

General Battuta posted:

If you care at all about the first-person mechwarrior simulation side of the franchise you need to try Living Legends. It has far and away the best implementation of the mechanics, plus you can drive vehicles/battle armor/aircraft. The balance is exquisite due to the extremely good choice to have no loving mechlab, and they've solved the usual MechWarrior problems like poptarting/legging/LRM hell.

Has it solved the other usual problems like teamstacking and the overall hostile community? At least in MWO you can turn the chat off.

# ? Sep 4, 2018 21:16

Organ Fiend: May 21, 2007; custom title

Amechwarrior posted:

So what's everyone's thoughts on the Abilities Beta?

I have mod that keeps abilities as they were, but makes Juggernaut autobrace on melee hit, so I'm enjoying it so far.

Seriously though coolant that doesn't cost space/tonnage is and always has been a bad idea. Everyone knew that the fix for Juggernaut was to have it autobrace in melee. Also, the fix for Bulwark is for it to give cover in open terrain and guarded in trees/cover.

I've been using the fix for you mod in the dz company commander mod collection and am still enjoying it. Is this the best place for feedback, or do you check the paradox forums for feedback?

# ? Sep 4, 2018 21:52

Amechwarrior: Jan 29, 2007

Organ Fiend posted:

I have mod that keeps abilities as they were, but makes Juggernaut autobrace on melee hit, so I'm enjoying it so far.

Seriously though coolant that doesn't cost space/tonnage is and always has been a bad idea. Everyone knew that the fix for Juggernaut was to have it autobrace in melee. Also, the fix for Bulwark is for it to give cover in open terrain and guarded in trees/cover.

I've been using the fix for you mod in the dz company commander mod collection and am still enjoying it. Is this the best place for feedback, or do you check the paradox forums for feedback?

I check both the PDX and this thread for feedback on my AI mod. Right now I got a free day to mess around with the AI, the first day in months. So far I'm working to make it more aggressive by jacking up the "I want to deal max dmg." I need to not push it so far it returns to making bad positioning choices for the sake of damage. That and I've isolated some weaknesses in the reserve hold-off that I should be able to fix, just that testing reserve settings is a slog. I did update the mod for 1.2.0 and put out one for the abilities beta the other night, but both are just the previous builds with the new variables so they run fine in the new versions. The abilities beta adds 3 new variables, but they are really strait forward and sensibly leveled, no point in adjusting.

# ? Sep 4, 2018 22:04

Phrosphor: Feb 25, 2007; Urbanisation

Amechwarrior posted:

I check both the PDX and this thread for feedback on my AI mod. Right now I got a free day to mess around with the AI, the first day in months. So far I'm working to make it more aggressive by jacking up the "I want to deal max dmg." I need to not push it so far it returns to making bad positioning choices for the sake of damage. That and I've isolated some weaknesses in the reserve hold-off that I should be able to fix, just that testing reserve settings is a slog. I did update the mod for 1.2.0 and put out one for the abilities beta the other night, but both are just the previous builds with the new variables so they run fine in the new versions. The abilities beta adds 3 new variables, but they are really strait forward and sensibly leveled, no point in adjusting.

Looking forward to having time to play again when flashpoint comes out, your AI tweaks are one of my most anticipated mods to add.

# ? Sep 4, 2018 23:35

General Battuta: Feb 7, 2011; This is how you communicate with a fellow intelligence: you hurt it, you keep on hurting it, until you can distinguish the posts from the screams.

And Tyler Too! posted:

Has it solved the other usual problems like teamstacking and the overall hostile community? At least in MWO you can turn the chat off.

Chat mute is in. About half the vets will stack like poo poo and half will swap teams to keep things even, so it�s luck of the draw who�s playing at any given time.

# ? Sep 5, 2018 00:02

Organ Fiend: May 21, 2007; custom title

Amechwarrior posted:

I check both the PDX and this thread for feedback on my AI mod. Right now I got a free day to mess around with the AI, the first day in months. So far I'm working to make it more aggressive by jacking up the "I want to deal max dmg." I need to not push it so far it returns to making bad positioning choices for the sake of damage. That and I've isolated some weaknesses in the reserve hold-off that I should be able to fix, just that testing reserve settings is a slog. I did update the mod for 1.2.0 and put out one for the abilities beta the other night, but both are just the previous builds with the new variables so they run fine in the new versions. The abilities beta adds 3 new variables, but they are really strait forward and sensibly leveled, no point in adjusting.

So on my new campaign, I'm just through the Smithon defense. I've got the Star League Highlander, a handful of heavies (K2, GHR, ON1, JM6), and a few mediums (SHD infighters and a FS GRF). I'm running with hard enemies, 5 parts to salvage, the aforementioned juggernaut mod, panic system mod, merc deployments mod, and a small self-made mod that drops PPC heat to 30.

Overall, I'd say that the mod makes the AI much better. I noticed in early missions, when my lance of mediums was getting overrun by commando swarms, that the enemy mechs were much better about getting into rear arcs and priming weakened targets. The AI is much less suicidal and (usually) reserves in an intelligent way. I don't just get mechs walking into precision strike insta-kills from my 9-tactics vanguard in the Highlander. I think that the increased defensive mood works well with the panic system mod. If the AI was just charging all the time, I suspect I'd be seeing more ejections.

The biggest issue I can see is that with your mod, the AI can sometimes become indecisive when it doesn't have any safe moves. Best example I can think of recently is from the Smithon defense mission. There's one Jenner that starts in visual range of the turrets at the front gate. With stock AI, that jenner (along with the other lights) sprint into the gate on turn one to get to the fuel tanks. Using your mod, that Jenner just kept reserving (with no cover or evasion pips) , which allowed my mechs (and the turrets) to kill it during the first turn. Granted, there aren't alot of good options for that jenner, but sprinting for evasion is better than reserving when you're out in the open with no evasion/cover. I've seen similar issues in other circumstances where the AI, when faced with no good options, will reserve in a bad spot (no evasion/cover) or will turtle up (the correct move, in my opinion, in those circumstances is to either sprint to cover/safety or to put as much movement on as you can and hit the weakest target ... don't just reserve). Like I said, your AI is usually good at making these choices. Its only in circumstances where mechs are faced with really bad choices.

Like I said though, your mod is a definite improvement and at this point I wouldn't play without it. Keep up the good work.

# ? Sep 5, 2018 00:05

Amechwarrior: Jan 29, 2007

Organ Fiend posted:

So on my new campaign, I'm just through the Smithon defense. I've got the Star League Highlander, a handful of heavies (K2, GHR, ON1, JM6), and a few mediums (SHD infighters and a FS GRF). I'm running with hard enemies, 5 parts to salvage, the aforementioned juggernaut mod, panic system mod, merc deployments mod, and a small self-made mod that drops PPC heat to 30.

Overall, I'd say that the mod makes the AI much better. I noticed in early missions, when my lance of mediums was getting overrun by commando swarms, that the enemy mechs were much better about getting into rear arcs and priming weakened targets. The AI is much less suicidal and (usually) reserves in an intelligent way. I don't just get mechs walking into precision strike insta-kills from my 9-tactics vanguard in the Highlander. I think that the increased defensive mood works well with the panic system mod. If the AI was just charging all the time, I suspect I'd be seeing more ejections.

The biggest issue I can see is that with your mod, the AI can sometimes become indecisive when it doesn't have any safe moves. Best example I can think of recently is from the Smithon defense mission. There's one Jenner that starts in visual range of the turrets at the front gate. With stock AI, that jenner (along with the other lights) sprint into the gate on turn one to get to the fuel tanks. Using your mod, that Jenner just kept reserving (with no cover or evasion pips) , which allowed my mechs (and the turrets) to kill it during the first turn. Granted, there aren't alot of good options for that jenner, but sprinting for evasion is better than reserving when you're out in the open with no evasion/cover. I've seen similar issues in other circumstances where the AI, when faced with no good options, will reserve in a bad spot (no evasion/cover) or will turtle up (the correct move, in my opinion, in those circumstances is to either sprint to cover/safety or to put as much movement on as you can and hit the weakest target ... don't just reserve). Like I said, your AI is usually good at making these choices. Its only in circumstances where mechs are faced with really bad choices.

Like I said though, your mod is a definite improvement and at this point I wouldn't play without it. Keep up the good work.

Totally agree on that, that's what I am working on as we speak. The Reserve hold-off is set too high, which leads to lights getting blasted and not realizing they need to act now or die if they let the player fire one more unit. There is a "Float_OverkillFactorForReserve" that was set to 150% of a unit's HP in stock, I have it at 125% base/brawlers and 80% scouts. I am playing around with 100% base to see how that changes things for brawlers and once I find the right value there, adjust the scouts role to match. Currently, I can get Lights to reserve down, but if they are also exposed they are not smart enough to move. Setting the scouts factor too low will prevent them from reserving in the first place and I need to find the balance. One huge problem is that the AI has a default order it moves units in, so in skirmish if you put the Light at the bottom, it will move last unless it triggers a state that jumps queue like being unstable or falling over. The SP missions also follow a set order (likely the order they are spawned in on the mission.json) and simply watching who moves last lets you know who you can kill without reaction.

If I could just write my own code in, I'd add in a turn queue check for Pips lost, say lose 65% of Pips started with and you get to jump queue and have to act. That and some better way of determining "Hey stupid, you can die if you reserve because they have 3 units that will go if you pass." but I'm not sure how I would quantify that. The Pip check at 65% lets the AI lose one of two or two of four and if they drop 2 of 3 or 3 of 4, they realize they are the prime target and need to book it. You could also adjust this by role, so scouts are less tolerant of Pip loss than brawlers or snipers.

Thanks for the feedback though! I like seeing similar reports crop up, tells me it's not just one persons playstyle and helps me focus my limited testing time.

# ? Sep 5, 2018 00:57

WebDO: Sep 25, 2009

Lord Stimperor posted:

Any news on the new 'Mechwarrior game? I remember the trailer and it received kind of mixed reactions.

Made by PGI, stillborn in the womb if you actually want a fun, balanced game.

I mean it will have stompy mechs and a good artist but...that's it.

# ? Sep 5, 2018 01:17

Klyith: Aug 3, 2007; GBS Pledge Week

Amechwarrior posted:

So what's everyone's thoughts on the Abilities Beta?

I didn't enjoy the all-Bulwark strategy, and I intentionally picked skills and played with tactics that didn't involve having bulwark on everyone.

I miss Bulwark.

As much as the Bulwark Wall was boring to me, the skill was important for defeating superior numbers of AI. You only have 4 mechs, it's a big deal to have some of them able to take punishment while still shooting back. New Bulwark is bait, which is also a way to defeat an AI, but IMO it's not very interesting to solve AI with gimmick tactics like that. It will also slow the game more -- when you use New Bulwark you aren't shooting, and when the AI uses it you have to switch targets. And last, it switches from favoring positioning (which the player is better at exploiting) to favoring numbers (which the AI gets).

I'm not sure why they aren't just swapping bulwark as-is into the 2nd-tier, if they're going to rework skills. That wouldn't be imbalanced! IMO that turns the second rank into a spread where you can kinda make the case for each one. (The power strat is probably 2 Bulwark 2 Master Tactician, which is an improvement over 4 identical pilots with both. Ace Pilot still sucks in the post-game all-assaults setting, but IMHO balancing for that should be way de-prioritized versus campaign and multiplayer where you have mixed forces.)

# ? Sep 5, 2018 02:23

Phrosphor: Feb 25, 2007; Urbanisation

Klyith posted:

I didn't enjoy the all-Bulwark strategy, and I intentionally picked skills and played with tactics that didn't involve having bulwark on everyone.

I miss Bulwark.

As much as the Bulwark Wall was boring to me, the skill was important for defeating superior numbers of AI. You only have 4 mechs, it's a big deal to have some of them able to take punishment while still shooting back. New Bulwark is bait, which is also a way to defeat an AI, but IMO it's not very interesting to solve AI with gimmick tactics like that. It will also slow the game more -- when you use New Bulwark you aren't shooting, and when the AI uses it you have to switch targets. And last, it switches from favoring positioning (which the player is better at exploiting) to favoring numbers (which the AI gets).

I'm not sure why they aren't just swapping bulwark as-is into the 2nd-tier, if they're going to rework skills. That wouldn't be imbalanced! IMO that turns the second rank into a spread where you can kinda make the case for each one. (The power strat is probably 2 Bulwark 2 Master Tactician, which is an improvement over 4 identical pilots with both. Ace Pilot still sucks in the post-game all-assaults setting, but IMHO balancing for that should be way de-prioritized versus campaign and multiplayer where you have mixed forces.)

Some of the data mined skills that didn't make it into the game involved stuff like giving bulwark to adjacent mechs rather than your own so you could 'cover' mechs with your mech.

# ? Sep 5, 2018 02:27

Amechwarrior: Jan 29, 2007

Klyith posted:

I didn't enjoy the all-Bulwark strategy, and I intentionally picked skills and played with tactics that didn't involve having bulwark on everyone.

I miss Bulwark.

As much as the Bulwark Wall was boring to me, the skill was important for defeating superior numbers of AI. You only have 4 mechs, it's a big deal to have some of them able to take punishment while still shooting back. New Bulwark is bait, which is also a way to defeat an AI, but IMO it's not very interesting to solve AI with gimmick tactics like that. It will also slow the game more -- when you use New Bulwark you aren't shooting, and when the AI uses it you have to switch targets. And last, it switches from favoring positioning (which the player is better at exploiting) to favoring numbers (which the AI gets).

I'm not sure why they aren't just swapping bulwark as-is into the 2nd-tier, if they're going to rework skills. That wouldn't be imbalanced! IMO that turns the second rank into a spread where you can kinda make the case for each one. (The power strat is probably 2 Bulwark 2 Master Tactician, which is an improvement over 4 identical pilots with both. Ace Pilot still sucks in the post-game all-assaults setting, but IMHO balancing for that should be way de-prioritized versus campaign and multiplayer where you have mixed forces.)

This is my worry. With my modded AI, 5 skull contracts were a beast to get through without serious damage. Now without Bulwark, it might be a loss to drop unless you're cheesed customs to the max, which is something I don't want as you end up running 3-4x of the same unit/weapon system just to keep the damage output highest. I need to try some 5 skull missions on the new build though, only had some time today to test in skirmish.

# ? Sep 5, 2018 02:36

Phrosphor: Feb 25, 2007; Urbanisation

Found this on reddit, which had something other than RogueTech posts for once:

https://www.pcgamesn.com/battletech/battletech-update-13-career-mode?tw=PCGN1

Free arcade mode?

Mitch posted:

1.3 will also overhaul the reputation system. �One of the key things is you�ll be able to become an ally of one of the factions in the game,� Gitelman says. �That�ll give you access to an ally-only store, where you�ll get special equipment and discounts.� If you prefer the other side of the tracks, mechwarriors with a criminal background will be able to access black market stores, to procure goods of more dubious provenance.

# ? Sep 5, 2018 03:19

Klyith: Aug 3, 2007; GBS Pledge Week

Phrosphor posted:

Some of the data mined skills that didn't make it into the game involved stuff like giving bulwark to adjacent mechs rather than your own so you could 'cover' mechs with your mech.

Yeah, that's too Xcom-y for this game.

For the most part I think they hit an excellent feel with the skills: they are important enough that pilots matter and your tactical decisions should be informed by who can do what, but not so powerful that you build everything around using skills and combos. Most of them are passive, or passive additions to normal actions. That's what I don't like about Coolant Vent*. It's out of line with the rest, too much of a superpower -- though the whole injury thing makes it anything but super.
_{*in the abstract -- I lost my old saves in a HD crash this summer so I'm starting a new campaign. don't have anyone with that skill yet.}

I like Xcom and I like Battletech and especially I like how they feel completely different. Xcom is a tactical puzzle you solve with mystic martial-arts, Battletech is a war of attrition you beat down with boxing robots.

I think that Kiva & co maybe have got the impression that their balance was way off for Bulwark vs everything else. It really wasn't. That's the thing about the internet and optimal play enthusiasts, they find everything that's even marginally better and stack all those margins up to make the OP strats.

# ? Sep 5, 2018 03:56

Runa: Feb 13, 2011

So Career Mode is going to be the non-story free-roam mode for people who don't want to bother with Long War: BT?

# ? Sep 5, 2018 04:01

Luigi Thirty: Apr 30, 2006; Emergency confection port.

What mods should I be using in the vanilla game to beef up the gameplay? AI, more gear, etc. I'm not sure what's compatible with 1.2. I installed RogueTech and I really want fancy gear and better AI in my vanilla campaign.

Luigi Thirty fucked around with this message at 04:41 on Sep 5, 2018

# ? Sep 5, 2018 04:37

I R SMART LIKE ROCK: Mar 10, 2003; I just want a hug.; Fun Shoe

Our local Amechwarrior is who authors that AI mod: https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/mod-release-better-ai-tweaks-for-deadlier-ai.1075322/ As they mentioned up thread, it's been updated for 1.2

As for the gear and other goodies, you'd have to rip them out of the RogueTech mod package

# ? Sep 5, 2018 05:09

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# ? May 29, 2024 23:06

sebmojo: Oct 23, 2010; Legit Cyberpunk

Lord Stimperor posted:

Any news on the new 'Mechwarrior game? I remember the trailer and it received kind of mixed reactions.

I thought it looked good for stompy robot feel, but the chance of it having a good game around it is slim. I'm optimistic though bc it's a better way to live :shobon:

# ? Sep 5, 2018 05:16

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > Battletech - Urban Warcrimes: So quoth the RVN-3L, Arrow IV.

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