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At least with QS, they say they will call an assembly of people “representative of Quebecois society” who will work together to create a new constitution that if iirc will include articles that would create a republic. If I’m being honest about it, they don’t seem too gung ho about it all. Oh by the way, here’s a rare English language interview of Gabriel Nadeau-Dubois on Global TV https://www.google.ca/amp/s/globalnews.ca/news/4415337/big-generational-change-quebec-solidaire-offers-voters-radical-societal-project/amp/ Ok I’ll stop posting about this for a bit. It’s just weird to be genuinely excited about a Canadian political party.
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# ? Sep 5, 2018 02:59 |
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# ? May 30, 2024 14:15 |
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ARACHTION posted:At least with QS, they say they will call an assembly of people “representative of Quebecois society” who will work together to create a new constitution that if iirc will include articles that would create a republic. If I’m being honest about it, they don’t seem too gung ho about it all. poo poo talking about how dedicated the other actually is to separation vs how much they're splitting the sovereignist vote is 99% of the PQ/QS beef and it's always hilarious. For the anglophones missing out on this poo poo the meme wars going on on facebook between supporters of both are pretty great.
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# ? Sep 5, 2018 05:52 |
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Hahahaha
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# ? Sep 5, 2018 11:24 |
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Since the fusion with ON, QS has taken on the most egregious part of ON's old program, which is that a QS government would govern as if independent, meaning with no regard to federal or provincial jurisdiction. ("Québec solidaire appliquera les mesures prévues à son programme, qu'elles soient compatibles ou non avec le cadre constitutionnel canadien") QS also used to be agnostic as to the outcome of the constituent assembly, it's now saying it would impose independence on it. https://www.scribd.com/document/360799185/Entente-de-principe-QS-ON
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# ? Sep 5, 2018 13:41 |
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Macleans has an actually good article about Canadian racism against First Nations.quote:Indigenous rights are not conditional on public opinion https://www.macleans.ca/opinion/indigenous-rights-are-not-conditional-on-public-opinion/
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# ? Sep 5, 2018 13:41 |
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Probably not a great sign for the NDP in Quebec next election that the radical left wing party agrees no man wearing a turban should be able to serve as a police officer or a judge.
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# ? Sep 5, 2018 13:44 |
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I don't get the This Is America meme, are they trying to say that metaphorically shooting the PQ's chances in the head is a bad thing? That's what I interpret, but it's an incoherent and bad message unless you're a complete loving moron who would vote for the PQ.
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# ? Sep 5, 2018 14:00 |
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vyelkin posted:Macleans has an actually good article about Canadian racism against First Nations. There is no contradiction, the people complaining about apologizing believe the genocide was cool and good. It's transparently obvious. Amazing
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# ? Sep 5, 2018 14:23 |
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vyelkin posted:It’s long past time that pollsters stop asking Canadians if they like Indigenous peoples or agree with our rights—and start asking them whether they feel like they’ve put Canada’s apology into action. It's kind of an interesting take on the separation of government sentiments and individual action. Am I also required to be pro-pipeline because the government really really thinks its a good idea? The government is composed of members of the public elected by other big chunks of the public, I'd argue that public opinion matters quite a bit.
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# ? Sep 5, 2018 15:17 |
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Pipelines and basic human rights, or recognizing an ethnic group's literal right to exist. Exactly the same thing.
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# ? Sep 5, 2018 15:23 |
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I'm sure the majority of Germans felt similarly in the 1930s.
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# ? Sep 5, 2018 15:25 |
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infernal machines posted:Pipelines and basic human rights, or recognizing an ethnic group's literal right to exist. If someone called you up and asked if you feel like you've put Canada's apology to indigenous people into action and you answer "yeah of course, i recognize their right to exist", maybe that doesn't satisfy the "apology into action" bit. It seems like a call for proactive action, what have you personally actually gone out and done to bring life and meaning to Stephen Harper, on behalf of The Government of Canada, and therefore your, important apology?
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# ? Sep 5, 2018 15:30 |
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I personally haven't done very much*, nor would I claim to have. But I'm also not saying that we're apologizing too much, or that the apology has been put into action. *I've worked at arms-length with government relation firms doing consultation with Ontario aboriginal communities. But your argument appeared to be that public opinion matters in both the case of a pipeline and recognizing aboriginal peoples' right to exist, so I have no idea where the apology-into-action question comes in. infernal machines fucked around with this message at 15:45 on Sep 5, 2018 |
# ? Sep 5, 2018 15:40 |
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infernal machines posted:Pipelines and basic human rights, or recognizing an ethnic group's literal right to exist. Is this not what the Tsleil-Waututh and Squamish were arguing in court? (Jeez, I need to make a serious effort to learn to spell indigenous names instead of hitting Google every time one comes up.)
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# ? Sep 5, 2018 15:58 |
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Was it? I don't know anything about those cases.
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# ? Sep 5, 2018 16:02 |
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infernal machines posted:I personally haven't done very much*, nor would I claim to have. But I'm also not saying that we're apologizing too much, or that the apology has been put into action. Sorry, I wasn't calling you out, just expanding their question as I read it. That's what makes it ridiculous. You, a well meaning progressive minded fellow, are going to have the same answer to their poll question as a racist rural and %99.99 of other people. The take I was pointing out is that the government rarely compels us to do a specific thing other than file taxes, it operates by telling us what we can't do and then we have liberty to operate within those constraints on the matters that we opine are most worth caring about. The other thing I take away from your answer is that you don't feel as though it is your personal responsibility to spend very many calories on applying action to that apology, which isn't any kind of accusation, that's the vast majority who see it as the government's problem to fix. That was my argument, that neither a government apology or a government pipeline policy would compel a change of opinion let alone obedient action from us. The author said that chronic underfunding was the heart of the problem so presumably we could be pressuring our politicians to tax us more or divert funds from other programs into those social programs so public opinion maybe gives us a glance at why we aren't doing that or what programs we think are more important. I guess that's the real poll question they should be asking to figure out how to get the indigenous social programs higher up people's priority lists.
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# ? Sep 5, 2018 16:07 |
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PT6A posted:I don't get the This Is America meme, are they trying to say that metaphorically shooting the PQ's chances in the head is a bad thing? That's what I interpret, but it's an incoherent and bad message unless you're a complete loving moron who would vote for the PQ. They’re saying that the PQ is the only one of the big 3 parties that has a remote chance of forming government and are the least worst (on some aspects), but that QS sabotages that chance by existing, regardless of how good their leftist credentials are.
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# ? Sep 5, 2018 16:08 |
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If only there was an electoral system to represent voters, like, proportionally.
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# ? Sep 5, 2018 16:15 |
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Postess with the Mostest posted:Sorry, I wasn't calling you out, just expanding their question as I read it. That's what makes it ridiculous. You, a well meaning progressive minded fellow, are going to have the same answer to their poll question as a racist rural and %99.99 of other people. The take I was pointing out is that the government rarely compels us to do a specific thing other than file taxes, it operates by telling us what we can't do and then we have liberty to operate within those constraints on the matters that we opine are most worth caring about. I guess I just misunderstood your framing. The gist of the article is that we (or the media/polling firms) should stop treating this as if there is a question of whether aboriginal peoples should/do have human rights, because we should be waaaay past that at this point. General public sentiment should not affect the government's will or ability to fulfill their treaty obligations. Individual action on this front is mostly going to amount to writing your MP, and maybe showing up to protest in front of Indigenous and Northern Affairs Canada, unless you personally are in a position to propose legislation or write bills. That is probably the closest the average person is going to come to putting the apology into action, at least on a systemic level.
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# ? Sep 5, 2018 16:16 |
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Nine of Eight posted:They’re saying that the PQ is the only one of the big 3 parties that has a remote chance of forming government and are the least worst (on some aspects), but that QS sabotages that chance by existing, regardless of how good their leftist credentials are. yeah the PQ, so good and left-wing that last time they were in office they enacted austerity and tried to pass the Quebec Charter of Values
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# ? Sep 5, 2018 16:19 |
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I read that "This is America" thing as the QS siphoning separatist voters away from the PQ, splitting the separatist vote and torpedoing the chance for another shot at Quebec splitting from Canada. It's a single-issue comment, not a left-right political parties comment.
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# ? Sep 5, 2018 16:42 |
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Feelin' the Bern! Highlights: Announcement next week on party name/logo, claims to have raised $90k already. One former MP will run, three CPC MPs said to be considering defection.
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# ? Sep 5, 2018 16:54 |
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bunnyofdoom posted:Feelin' the Bern! So excited for a racist xenophobic party that might actually attract media attention and prominent support! Based on my meticulous record of watching every West Wing episode ever and my solemn commitment to never learn anything from 2016 I have determined that this can mean only good things for the country. Like, for fucks sake, even if this does help Trudeau win the next election don't any of you people realize politics occurs on a longer time scale than four years? If I had to choose I would rather Scheer run the country than have a genuine hard right party emerge at exactly the moment in history when hard right parties are rapidly gaining support.
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# ? Sep 5, 2018 17:06 |
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Hell, gently caress using Trump as an example, remember when almost everyone in this thread was delighted that Brown got replaced by Ford?
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# ? Sep 5, 2018 17:08 |
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vyelkin posted:yeah the PQ, so good and left-wing that last time they were in office they enacted austerity and tried to pass the Quebec Charter of Values Welcome to where the PQ lost government over that poo poo and the liberals jacked up the austerity even harder and the CAQ likely will do the same over “tax cuts”, and where all the big three decided hating on Muslims was cool and good.
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# ? Sep 5, 2018 17:08 |
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Helsing posted:So excited for a racist xenophobic party that might actually attract media attention and prominent support! Based on my meticulous record of watching every West Wing episode ever and my solemn commitment to never learn anything from 2016 I have determined that this can mean only good things for the country. Personally, I am more hoping that like this shines a light on some of the more egregious poo poo. Helsing posted:Hell, gently caress using Trump as an example, remember when almost everyone in this thread was delighted that Brown got replaced by Ford? The different here is that Ford replaced Brown, not Ford created his own party. The Trump example also is that he didn't go off and create his own party either. This is more early 90's con split then Trump/Ford.
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# ? Sep 5, 2018 17:12 |
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Helsing posted:Hell, gently caress using Trump as an example, remember when almost everyone in this thread was delighted that Brown got replaced by Ford? It was hilarious, and the party immediately devolved into an orgy of backstabbing, ripping itself to shreds. Then the conservative voters of Ontario dutifully lined up, shrugged their shoulders, and voted conservative because literally nothing will ever prevent them from voting PCPO.
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# ? Sep 5, 2018 17:13 |
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Hell, you don't even have to go past that exact Starticle to find some ominous notes on Bernier's new party.quote:Published Tuesday, it found 22 per cent of Canadians believe there is a need for a new conservative party federally, and 17 per cent of Canadians are open to voting for a Bernier-led conservative party. While a majority disagreed there is a need or that they would be open to voting for such a party, the apparent willingness of a good chunk of people (and not just those who identify as Conservative-leaning voters) was hailed by Bernier. A poll finds up to 17% of Canadians open to voting for Bernier, and that's likely to rise as more people learn what has happened. It's not just CPC voters who are open to the appeal of libertarian racism, either. Bernier, just like all the recent populists who have seen success electorally, has gone straight to the "the centre-left and centre-right parties are the same" well, and on top of that has started shouting about how we need a "strong leader" instead of a "weak" one, which plays right into preexisting ideas in our political culture of Trudeau and Scheer as weak (effeminate) men. My back-of-a-napkin prediction for the next decade of Canadian politics is that this helps Trudeau win the next election because it splits the vote, but that also makes Scheer and the CPC look extremely weak, Bernier becomes the new face of Canadian conservatism, and libertarian racism becomes the overt conservative platform instead of just the dogwhistle subtext. And that's a pretty horrendous look for whatever election follows 2019.
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# ? Sep 5, 2018 17:16 |
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https://twitter.com/davidfrum/status/1037352944658722817 ffs
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# ? Sep 5, 2018 17:34 |
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bunnyofdoom posted:Personally, I am more hoping that like this shines a light on some of the more egregious poo poo. So is Bernier. Hoping people go for it.
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# ? Sep 5, 2018 17:44 |
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Well that's just loving great.
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# ? Sep 5, 2018 17:51 |
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The Munk School: Giving a platform to the most odious poo poo in the name of liberalism
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# ? Sep 5, 2018 18:01 |
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Will Bernier's party be appreciably more racist/sexist than the CPC? So far the main difference spoken of is the supply management/corporate welfare stuff. What has Bernier's position been in the past on abortion, immigration, reconcilliation etc?
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# ? Sep 5, 2018 18:02 |
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Re immigration: He dropped the mic after declaring that perhaps Canada was already too diverse. I'm guessing the way Helsing and others see this playing out is the same as the old Conservative/Reform split. Harder-right splinters off, they both wander around in the wilderness for an electoral cycle or two, then merge with the harder-right now controlling the party. They form the government after the Liberals spend a decade slowly shifting ever rightward themselves finally poo poo the bed messily enough to piss people off. infernal machines fucked around with this message at 18:07 on Sep 5, 2018 |
# ? Sep 5, 2018 18:04 |
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bunnyofdoom posted:This is more early 90's con split then Trump/Ford. And how did that turn out?
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# ? Sep 5, 2018 18:04 |
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Duck Rodgers posted:What has Bernier's position been in the past on abortion, immigration, reconcilliation etc? https://twitter.com/MaximeBernier/status/978636578460487681 https://twitter.com/MaximeBernier/status/1032043220614762496 https://twitter.com/Leask/status/834087839310688256
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# ? Sep 5, 2018 18:10 |
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I skimmed over the discussions about banning handguns and colonial reparations. My solution to both problems is to give native canadians guns
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# ? Sep 5, 2018 18:26 |
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Thanks for the info. Not sure how I forgot about the diversity comments given it was so recent and so widely reported. Maybe I celebrated unions and labour too hard this past weekend.
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# ? Sep 5, 2018 18:27 |
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Ok, now that I read it, I oppose to his usage of the term social engineering, as an actual social engineer (aka professional liar.)
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# ? Sep 5, 2018 18:28 |
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# ? May 30, 2024 14:15 |
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Postess with the Mostest posted:https://twitter.com/MaximeBernier/status/978636578460487681 Yes the problem with reserves and by extension First Nations people is definitely that there's not enough capitalist middle managers and land lords exploiting them.
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# ? Sep 5, 2018 18:32 |