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The big thing Pearl Abyss is long on is money though, which CCP is desperately, desperately short on. So something had to give. Also BDO really isn't that bad compared to models in games like anything Trion or Funcom puts out.
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Sep 6, 2018 14:19
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Dalael posted:Dumb question... since Don't worry its not going to die over night. They will implement a series of terrible new cash-store policies that will kill peoples interest in the game over time. By the time the game actually shuts down the servers you won't want to post to goonfleet forums anyway.
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Sep 6, 2018 14:20
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decided to kill EVE, and our gf forum accounts are linked with our characters in corp, does that mean we lose the forum once EVE dies? 
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Kimsemus posted:I've honestly never looked at it this way but you're completely correct in my opinion. You can only trim so much before you begin cutting into the bone (core staff) and muscle (feature/content development). I think EVE has had some pretty gross and unacknowledged missteps in management in the past (Aurum in general), which has been beating the game with the current people in charge. A new board with new ideas might not be a bad thing. yeah, but the main concern here is the "when you have a hammer everything looks like a nail" effect. new management's experience is all in pay-to-win crap, so that's what they're instinctively going to reach to. if they put more money in and hire better people, great, but to the extent they're managing the company and calling the shots directly (ccp being "independent" means nothing because of course it's independent, until you really figure out how it works and who you want to replace and put in charge) its iffy at best we will see though, i agree with querns the existing management wasn't going to last and something had to give. ccp's owners clearly had lost faith in management and no longer wanted to own the company.
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Sep 6, 2018 14:23
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Kimsemus posted:The big thing Pearl Abyss is long on is money though, which CCP is desperately, desperately short on. So something had to give. Also BDO really isn't that bad compared to models in games like anything Trion or Funcom puts out. that's good. if they didn't need to go into debt to buy the company, they will have less of a need to immediately juice revenue. if it had been a leveraged buyout then things likely would have gotten bad fast (hopefully it wasn't, i didn't confirm that).
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Sep 6, 2018 14:24
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I think them paying 425M USD for CCP is kind of a testament of how much cash PA must have on hand because I would have a hard time finding anyone who would value CCP at that amount, the only two things they have of value are EVE, and some proprietary networking/MMO related tech. CCP killed off their other IPs (White Wolf etc) and their last few releases were pretty bad. I don't know how their foray into VR went but it can't be anything special. BDO is wildly successful in South Korea, and I think they learned a lot from their western release in what a western audience wants and will tolerate. I'll say that BDO wasn't really my cup of tea, but was a fun game in its own right and had some pretty novel concepts going on. PA has always had a bend for player driven instead of scripted content which is a glimmer of hope as well. The bottom line though, imo, is that EVE is going to lose some older players during this transition, the question is will it attract a lot more new players versus old ones lost. If they can pull that off then EVE might get hella fun hella fast.
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Sep 6, 2018 14:28
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Kimsemus posted:I think them paying 425M USD for CCP is kind of a testament of how much cash PA must have on hand because I would have a hard time finding anyone who would value CCP at that amount, the only two things they have of value are EVE, and some proprietary networking/MMO related tech. CCP killed off their other IPs (White Wolf etc) and their last few releases were pretty bad. I don't know how their foray into VR went but it can't be anything special. EVE generates 86m in revenue a year and has been puttering along for a decade and a half so you can anticipate it's going to continue for a reasonable time. That's a very valuable asset, $425m doesn't strike me as all that high for just EVE.
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Sep 6, 2018 14:35
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An appropriate time to revisit the classics: CCP buys Whitewolf in 2005 and starts developing the MMO World of Darkness online. They change game engines three (?) times. All players ever see* is a demo of a street and buildings. And then CCP gives up on the project in 2014: https://www.pcgamer.com/world-of-darkness-cancelled-by-ccp CCP then sells Whitewolf to Paradox Interactive in 2016, having let the IP rot for a decade. https://www.polygon.com/2015/10/29/9638458/paradox-interactive-buys-white-wolf-ccp-vampire-the-masquerade-werewolf There was nothing wrong with the ideo of a WoD MMO. They were even in a position to release into a hot market with those Twilight movies being out, but they missed the window. It was purely a failure to execute - quite possibly driven by the awful choice by a small company to try and develop two big games at the same time. The other game being Dust 514, which was mostly built by a Chinese game maker but which still required CCP to put dollars into it which could have gone into WoD. These days, dust Dust 514 is remembered as that FPS that was Developing two games at the same time as a small game company, while maintaining a MMO would be a challenge. CCP was not up to it. And not just because WoD went into development hell. They had basically no development resources going into EVE, notwithstanding that it was the source of all their revenue. CCP realized this might look bad, so in 2011 they dropped the WoD character creator into EVE (see the * above) and added a clothing store in game that required real money (via purchased tokens). This would be bad enough, but WoD had been a complete failure so the avatars players could could not actually interact with other characters. Or appear on screen the same time as other avatars. CCP never quite figured out what the point of an avatar that couldn't interact with other players, in an MMO was. EVE players lost their poo poo https://www.pcgamer.com/eve-online-players-protest-against-monocle-pricesmicrotransactions-lasers-involved/ It's fair to say that CCP really never recovered from the awful choices they made between 2009 and 2011. Dust 514 was a dud. WoD was a complete waste, and wasted the White Wolf IP. EVE development eventually restarted and we've seen meaningful increments - but the big, free expansions of the past never reappeared. And yet, CCP decided that they were worth a billion dollars. Why? They were a leading VR compnay! Or at least that was the narrative they went with after their Devs built a VR fighter game in their spare time (yes, that's what EVE Valkyrie was when it started to get attention)." There was even a claim that bidders were looking to buy CCP and it had been valued at 900 million euro ($1,050,000,000 USD) valuation: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-12-09/eve-online-owners-said-to-weigh-game-maker-sale-after-approaches Everyone knew that valuation was crap. It was a blatent pump and dump.When VR didn't work https://www.engadget.com/2017/10/30/eve-valkyrie-studio-is-shutting-down-its-vr-department/, CCP then claimed to be moving into that new hotness of mobile games: https://venturebeat.com/2017/10/06/ccp-hopes-to-capture-what-makes-eve-online-special-with-new-mobile-game Take the announced $425,000,000 sale price with a grain of alt. It's probably not cash. I think the suggestion that Pay to Win is coming to EVE is probably correct. That said, maybe we'll also get some actually new ideas into eve before they totally burn it out.
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Sep 6, 2018 14:36
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Kimsemus posted:The big thing Pearl Abyss is long on is money though, which CCP is desperately, desperately short on. So something had to give. Also BDO really isn't that bad compared to models in games like anything Trion or Funcom puts out. Funcom is holding on to life thanks to Conan: Junk Physics Simulator. Trion is in a slow extended death spiral and I'm expecting them to pull the plug in 12 months or so because I think they're out of immediate cash grabs to make their next round of loan repayments next year, but what do I know. None of Trion's IPs are worth poo poo IMO so I don't see a bail out. Pearl Abyss prints money like Nintendo selling gameboy DS lites in the 00s.
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Sep 6, 2018 14:39
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evilweasel posted:EVE generates 86m in revenue a year and has been puttering along for a decade and a half so you can anticipate it's going to continue for a reasonable time. That's a very valuable asset, $425m doesn't strike me as all that high for just EVE. I suppose that's true, and I hope you're right, because that means PA is hoping EVE is going to be around for 5+ years to come, which means they might have some incentive to not gently caress it up. I have to emphasize if a buyout was inevitable, Pearl Abyss is hardly the worst option among a market of only bad options.
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Sep 6, 2018 14:41
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The current dev team loving blows. The worst that happens is they drive the game off the cliff its already racing towards.
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Sep 6, 2018 14:44
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Rutibex posted:Don't worry its not going to die over night. They will implement a series of terrible new cash-store policies that will kill peoples interest in the game over time. By the time the game actually shuts down the servers you won't want to post to goonfleet forums anyway. You underestimate how much I like to shitpost 
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Sep 6, 2018 14:50
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Kimsemus posted:I suppose that's true, and I hope you're right, because that means PA is hoping EVE is going to be around for 5+ years to come, which means they might have some incentive to not gently caress it up. Yeah, I don't think EVE's IP, it's technology, or its programmers are really worth anything. EVE has been paying bottom of the market for programmers for ages (which is why they always get raided), and EVE's basic technology is a decade or more out of date, and just sort of puttering along because you can't rip it all out and redo it so they have to keep trying to patch it. CCP's main issue is they had a cash tree that just kept raining cash, so they kept wasting it over and over and over again on failed business attempts. Remove the people wasting the money, and presto, you've got a cash tree.
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Sep 6, 2018 14:50
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evilweasel posted:CCP's main issue is they had a cash tree that just kept raining cash, so they kept wasting it over and over and over again on failed business attempts. Remove the people wasting the money, and presto, you've got a cash tree. I think this is very much the case. EVEs success is not a product of CCPs brilliant planning and game mechanics. They basically stumbled onto the correct formula to create a sandbox MMO, and the players have been generating content for them ever since. No one is drawn to EVE for the faction warfare or great mission design, they are drawn in when they read an article about giant alliances blowing up thousands of dollars worth of fake space ships. All CCP has to do is keep the servers running, and patch any obvious imbalances and the players will continue making content (and money) for them.
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Sep 6, 2018 15:08
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Rutibex posted:I think this is very much the case. EVEs success is not a product of CCPs brilliant planning and game mechanics. They basically stumbled onto the correct formula to create a sandbox MMO, and the players have been generating content for them ever since. No one is drawn to EVE for the faction warfare or great mission design, they are drawn in when they read an article about giant alliances blowing up thousands of dollars worth of fake space ships. All CCP has to do is keep the servers running, and patch any obvious imbalances and the players will continue making content (and money) for them. CCP needs to keep generating new stuff because the old stuff gets "solved" too much after a while. But what they've been doing, seemingly, is trying to maximize the change in the 0.0 meta for a minimum of programmer time. Investing a little bit more than the bare minimum is a much better idea than doing the bare minimum forever, because it doesn't take THAT much to get things growing a little bit more.
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Sep 6, 2018 15:16
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Samuel L. Hacksaw posted:In a way, this is perfectly in the spirit of EVE. Cold, uncaring, and 100% about getting cash by any means. Also a pretty good scam. The endless 50% off sales all summer were pretty much the financial equivalent of the jita local "hangar cleanout CHEAP OFFICER MODS!!!!!" contract.
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Sep 6, 2018 15:17
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Rutibex posted:I think this is very much the case. EVEs success is not a product of CCPs brilliant planning and game mechanics. They basically stumbled onto the correct formula to create a sandbox MMO, and the players have been generating content for them ever since. No one is drawn to EVE for the faction warfare or great mission design, they are drawn in when they read an article about giant alliances blowing up thousands of dollars worth of fake space ships. All CCP has to do is keep the servers running, and patch any obvious imbalances and the players will continue making content (and money) for them. Don't a stupid number of players never leave high sec and mine and mission there for years? I wouldn't be shocked to learn that random dudes who pay $15/month to run missions or mine a few times a week are what really keep Eve afloat.
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Sep 6, 2018 15:22
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Xae posted:Don't a stupid number of players never leave high sec and mine and mission there for years? It's this and whales who buy PLEX/skill extractors for cash. Skill extractors in particular were a fiduciary stroke of genius -- radically increase the ease of use and granularity of character trading and get fuckin' paid. That alone probably cinched the sale.
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Sep 6, 2018 15:27
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it's been one hell of a ride, shut the doors
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Sep 6, 2018 15:31
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Gwyneth Palpate posted:It's this and whales who buy PLEX/skill extractors for cash. Skill extractors in particular were a fiduciary stroke of genius -- radically increase the ease of use and granularity of character trading and get fuckin' paid. That alone probably cinched the sale. TFW I see a 2017 character with 100m SP
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Sep 6, 2018 15:33
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Who would be better, these guys or EA? maybe space loot boxes wouldn't be so bad
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Sep 6, 2018 15:37
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Gwyneth Palpate posted:That being said, who bought them is pretty distressing. They don't have a great reputation. Still, there's a chance that they can turn things around. I'll take a low chance of goodness over a guaranteed outcome of failure. Interestingly, the article on Imperium News mentioned these guys have been investing into CCP for years, so god knows how much money they've spend on EVE in total so far.
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Sep 6, 2018 15:38
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Foehammer007 posted:Who would be better, these guys or EA? You can unlock this answer for $4.95!
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Sep 6, 2018 15:39
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Kimsemus posted:TFW I see a 2017 character with 100m SP One of the casino guys skill injected every skill in the game a day or two after skill extractors became available. He had like 400m SP or some poo poo. The guys who were leaders on eveboard or whatever were super pissed off. Now he's banned. 
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Sep 6, 2018 15:43
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Foehammer007 posted:Who would be better, these guys or EA? What do you prefer? Repeated kicks in the balls, or setting your pubes on fire with no way to extinguish it other than by enacting option 1?
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Sep 6, 2018 15:45
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Didn't want that fiery icelandic independence anyway.
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Sep 6, 2018 15:46
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Foehammer007 posted:Who would be better, these guys or EA? these guys EA has the process of gutting an acquisition and converting them into a reskinned EA clone down to a science, the plans for making EVE ptw would already be on an exec's desk. these guys will probably move somewhat slowly even if they get to the same place because this is somewhat new to them and they need to figure out how to absorb and control ccp first
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Sep 6, 2018 15:47
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Looks like I made the right choice quitting this game in checks notes 2014
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Sep 6, 2018 15:49
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Luigi Thirty posted:Looks like I made the right choice quitting this game in checks notes 2014 No one truly quits until they remove the EVE thread from their bookmarks.
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Sep 6, 2018 15:52
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I think the first canary to watch for is the 64 bit client. If it never releases, or they release the buggy poo poo and drag their heels on fixing it, then we know they're going full EA. IF poo poo goes on as normal for the next 6 months or so just with new faces then it'll probably be fine for a while.
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Sep 6, 2018 16:08
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CainFortea posted:I think the first canary to watch for is the 64 bit client. sorry if it's a stupid question but what do you mean by the 64 bit client? Are they working on converting from 32 bit? Blizzbois just did this with WoW.
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Sep 6, 2018 16:09
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Kimsemus posted:sorry if it's a stupid question but what do you mean by the 64 bit client? Are they working on converting from 32 bit? Blizzbois just did this with WoW. yep, because currently the client can run out of ram in big tidi battles
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Sep 6, 2018 16:10
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Kimsemus posted:sorry if it's a stupid question but what do you mean by the 64 bit client? Are they working on converting from 32 bit? Blizzbois just did this with WoW. Scheduled for the winter release.
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Sep 6, 2018 16:12
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i just wanted to play the dust 514 part two: dust harder before tencent or a copycat company got a hold of it. dust was fun and i dont want to pay 4.95 per shootmans skill in a ps4 exclusive 
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Sep 6, 2018 16:14
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Blazing Zero posted:i just wanted to play the dust 514 part two: dust harder before tencent or a copycat company got a hold of it. dust was fun and i dont want to pay 4.95 per shootmans skill in a ps4 exclusive I had fun the first few months of Dust. It was ~okay~, it just wasn't great. I for one, don't miss it one bit.
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Sep 6, 2018 16:16
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Dalael posted:I had fun the first few months of Dust. It was ~okay~, it just wasn't great. I for one, don't miss it one bit. if you played with a bad team or solo, i could see why you didnt enjoy it
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Sep 6, 2018 16:24
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I think I hooked up my PS3 only to play Dust and this other "mmofps" called MAG or something like that which was a lot of fun
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Sep 6, 2018 16:25
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Blazing Zero posted:if you played with a bad team or solo, i could see why you didnt enjoy it To be 100% honest, i think i didn't like it all that much because I'm bad at FPS. I was already not good in my prime, and i'm past that point. Being instagibbed by people I could barely make out on my screen, really pisses me off. I used to play it with my GF, she was really into it and was slightly better than I was. We had fun for a while but eventually our lack of skills just couldn't keep up.
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Sep 6, 2018 16:29
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i didn't really play dust to win. i was ok at dust but there was fun stuff to do like spam revive needles and kill people or goomba stomping team mates with dropships. they didnt have a way to reject revives for a long time 
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Sep 6, 2018 16:35
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This is such disappointing news. Will be interesting to see how this shitshow progresses. Will it be a long drawn out bleed or a quick p2w implementation.
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Sep 6, 2018 16:36
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A pure FPS doesn't make much sense in the context of EVE. Why use foot soldiers when "planetary vehicles" only cost 90k isk? "Elite Slaves" sell for 300k+, it doesn't make financial sense to use waves of foot soldiers instead of vehicles. They should have done a "space GTA" set on the four home worlds of the different factions.
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Sep 6, 2018 16:40
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