|
I want more poo poo about the Crossbone Vanguard. Not the space pirates, but the autocratic private army. I want more F91 era stuff, with more Heavygun. Lots and lots of Heavygun.
|
#
?
Sep 7, 2018 20:11
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 24, 2024 15:25 |
|
|
I've started watching Gundam X and it's really not bad. I thought it had a reputation as one of the worst series, is that overblown or does it get a lot worse? Also the setting seems perfect for an open world gundam game
|
|
#
?
Sep 7, 2018 20:20
|
|
|
Populon posted:I've started watching Gundam X and it's really not bad. I thought it had a reputation as one of the worst series, is that overblown or does it get a lot worse? Gundam X isn't usually at the very top of most people's lists, but I'd always gotten the impression that people like it well enough? Haven't watched myself, but I like what I've gleaned from Super Robot Wars.
|
|
#
?
Sep 7, 2018 20:31
|
|
|
Populon posted:I've started watching Gundam X and it's really not bad. I thought it had a reputation as one of the worst series, is that overblown or does it get a lot worse? It has Newtype dolphins, so you'll find it is in fact Very Good. In seriousness, I consider Gundam X to be a mediocre series overall, somewhat weak in the animation department and the battles aren't terribly interesting. But thematically its message about Newtypes is an interesting one that cuts against the grain of the UC take on them.
|
|
#
?
Sep 7, 2018 20:33
|
|
|
Arcsquad12 posted:ZZ launched what two weeks after Zeta ended? Yeah, if you don't count the recap episode. Counting that, there was no break
|
|
#
?
Sep 7, 2018 20:37
|
|
|
Populon posted:I've started watching Gundam X and it's really not bad. I thought it had a reputation as one of the worst series, is that overblown or does it get a lot worse? It's a good series with one of the best protagonists Gundam has ever had and a neat love story, but it also has some really bad rushing later on due to cancellation and it shows. Still, I really enjoyed X and I don't get the hate for it either. I don't think I've ever seen someone put it as one of the worst though, it definitely doesn't have the hate SEED Destiny, AGE, or Build Divers have.
|
|
#
?
Sep 7, 2018 21:18
|
|
|
X used to be pretty low (in the general opinion, I personally liked it quite a bit) due to it being nothing that special. The tons of worse shows since make it rise relatively. 
|
|
#
?
Sep 7, 2018 21:22
|
|
|
For English speaking fans, I wonder how much of Gundam X was a victim of internet people not accurately describing the show and therefore setting wrong expectations. Like I remember when I was first reading about X years ago somewhere it was described as being like Fallout with Gundams and man that is not accurate at all.
|
|
#
?
Sep 7, 2018 21:35
|
|
|
Populon posted:I've started watching Gundam X and it's really not bad. I thought it had a reputation as one of the worst series, is that overblown or does it get a lot worse? Nah, you nailed it with "really not bad". Over the course of the series it's quality level varies between "watchable" and "not bad", but never gets into just flat out bad or good, imo.
|
|
#
?
Sep 7, 2018 21:52
|
|
|
ManSedan posted:I want more poo poo about the Crossbone Vanguard. Not the space pirates, but the autocratic private army. I want F91 the Origin, a retelling of the full story with amazing Yasuhiko artwork. Crossbone has like a two-page summary fo what happened after the movie with Multiple clashes between Seabook and Dorel/Zabine and a Crossbone Civil War started by Cecily and I want to see that.
|
|
#
?
Sep 7, 2018 22:15
|
|
|
X is just very blah. It meanders then rushes, and right when it was getting interesting it's over. I think a lot of it comes from the fact that it feels like a forgotten child with very generic character designs for the era, and the Gundams feel like less refined versions of ones you'll see in other series. It's not by any measure awful, but it's not really that good either. I found it mostly kinda boring.
|
|
#
?
Sep 7, 2018 22:29
|
|
|
Worst is probably still 0083 in terms of wasting potential on complete bullshit.
|
|
#
?
Sep 7, 2018 23:03
|
|
|
Didn't X start up basically as soon as Wing ended, which itself started right after G? I could see a bit of burnout in that case, to go along with what people are saying about it just not standing out as much.
|
|
#
?
Sep 8, 2018 00:04
|
|
|
I can't say as I ever bought the burnout angle, since Sentai has been going now for decades and while it's numbers are down now (as television ratings are across the board), it was going strong in the 90's after 15 odd entries; never mind 3. More than that, Gundam now has multiple entries every year and there's no real sign of burnout.
|
|
#
?
Sep 8, 2018 00:13
|
|
|
HitTheTargets posted:Didn't X start up basically as soon as Wing ended, which itself started right after G? I could see a bit of burnout in that case, to go along with what people are saying about it just not standing out as much. Burnout is a thing that's often brought out vis-a-vis Gundam X since yes, it did air back to back to back with Wing and G before it, but that's one of those semi-apocryphal "just so" stories so I'm not 100% on that being the real/only reason for getting cut short early.
|
|
#
?
Sep 8, 2018 00:36
|
|
|
Arcsquad12 posted:Worst is probably still 0083 in terms of wasting potential on complete bullshit. Which is why 0083 Rebellion is a great thing
|
|
#
?
Sep 8, 2018 01:23
|
|
|
Arcsquad12 posted:Worst is probably still 0083 in terms of wasting potential on complete bullshit. AGE? The generations angle coulda been neat and then the show turned out to be a contender for Worst Gundam.
|
|
#
?
Sep 8, 2018 02:01
|
|
|
I found AGE to be boring and mediocre rather than being actively terrible like the back half of Stardust Memory. Plus 0083 is partially responsible for the whole F91 timeline getting shafted to ancillary comics, so it has that going against it as well.
|
|
#
?
Sep 8, 2018 02:06
|
|
|
The Notorious ZSB posted:X is just very blah. It meanders then rushes, and right when it was getting interesting it's over. I think a lot of it comes from the fact that it feels like a forgotten child with very generic character designs for the era, and the Gundams feel like less refined versions of ones you'll see in other series. It's not by any measure awful, but it's not really that good either. I found it mostly kinda boring. I'll admit, X is at best a decent show that was victim to outside circumstances dragging things down. Had the show come out about 5 years later (like, after Turn-A and more importantly, some time to breathe at Sunrise), it might have been able to find its voice better. X has its moments that help it stand out, but unfortunately coming out during the 90s blitz of Gundam content absolutely did not help the show in the long run.
|
|
#
?
Sep 8, 2018 05:19
|
|
|
AradoBalanga posted:X is not helped by being part of a long line of continuous Gundam content that Sunrise pumped out in the 90s. From 1993 to 1997, we got: Victory, G, Wing TV, most of 08th MS Team, X and then finally Endless Waltz. So, you have three 49-51 episode series, one 39 episode series, 8 OVA episodes (first 4 episodes before the original director died, then episodes 5-8 with the new director), and one movie/3 OVA episodes all produced in the span of 4 years. Plus, you have the additional headache of having to establish the setting and world, especially for G, Wing and X since they were not connected to the Universal Century like Victory and 08th. I would not be surprised that by the time X rolled around, there was some serious burnout in the animation department because they had been doing the same stuff for so long. Then on top of that, the aforementioned sudden death of Takeyuki Kanda most likely affected the mood at Sunrise offices (he died in July 1996, right around the time the Fort Severn arc was wrapping up and the Sea of Lorelai arc began), coupled with X being subject to a lovely game of Time Slot Hot PotatoTM also didn't help matters for the show. It also was the first Gundam show released after Eva. Like, right after Eva. Wing had overlap, sure, but if you were watching Wing, you'd probably committed or bailed long before Shinji decided if he was going to run away. X had to sell itself to an audience that just got congratulated. And X is one of the worst Gundams for the gig. Where Gundam shows are traditionally war dramas to some extent (even when they're Yakuza stories), X has the heroes drifting around for the first arc, makes them an isolated team with super robots from the war, and gives the hero a FINISHING MOVE they can pull out to instantly win (conditionally and all, but it brings up old associations.) Between that and the designs, it felt much more like something Eva just ripped into like a mass production model into Unit 02 than most Gundam shows. Not saying it was a leading factor, but it probably didn't help.
|
|
#
?
Sep 8, 2018 06:13
|
|
|
I was lead to believe X's unpopularity in Japan was something to do with the OP's promising space and the actual series having none of it. No idea if this is the case since I only got a few episodes in.
|
|
#
?
Sep 8, 2018 15:01
|
|
|
Szmitten posted:I was lead to believe X's unpopularity in Japan was something to do with the OP's promising space and the actual series having none of it. No idea if this is the case since I only got a few episodes in. That rumor is categorically false.
|
|
#
?
Sep 8, 2018 15:04
|
|
|
I take it back. While 0083 is pretty terrible it is not as flat out incompetent and poorly edited as Twilight Axis.
|
|
#
?
Sep 8, 2018 16:07
|
|
|
Arcsquad12 posted:I take it back. While 0083 is pretty terrible it is not as flat out incompetent and poorly edited as Twilight Axis. Yeah that's one I can't wait for them to finish the manga series of because I'm fairly sure there's a story there but the anime showed us a few snippets of it and called it a day.
|
|
#
?
Sep 8, 2018 16:46
|
|
|
I really want to know the backstory behind Twilight Axis. Every aspect of both the anime and the model line felt so aggressively, intentionally lovely. Like everyone involved was angry that they had to do it.
|
|
#
?
Sep 8, 2018 17:23
|
|
|
Arcsquad12 posted:Worst is probably still 0083 in terms of wasting potential on complete bullshit. Destiny still gets my vote for this, it's honestly obnoxious how it turns around from being a show about Athrun and Shinn to being about a show about Kira and how good and correct about everything he is. Nothing highlights this better than the original finale scene where Kira confronts Durandal by himself, and they added Athrun in standing silently in the background for the redux episodes. Meat in the room in his own show.
|
|
#
?
Sep 8, 2018 19:22
|
|
|
I don't really get what potential people see in Destiny personally. Shinn is nice as a starting protagonist since he's got somewhere to go, but he's just a mix of Kamille and Domon really and the setting and plot aren't anything special. Then again, I don't get the potential people see in F91 either. I've personally always seen AGE as much more rife with potential, but I like generational stories so that's coloring my perception. I still think Flit could be really interesting as a protagonist since so much of his story is about his own failures as a hero and how he passed this on to his family in various ways. The actual execution of that, as with the rest of AGE, is boring poo poo for the most part but there are one or two nice bits (like his reminiscences about the Diva as it's going down) and his cynicism versus his grandson's optimism is great in theory.
|
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2018 01:36
|
|
|
F91 was the first attempt at a big break from Feddie Zeon conflict and it got sidelined by a show that doubled down on hyper Zeon fanaticism and probably more than anything got UC Gundam stuck in a recursive loop of One Year War stories. F91 has amazing Mobile Suit designs and some really slick animation, plus the whole Regency Era costume design that Wing later perfected. But rather than going into this new wave of late era UC shows we only got a badly edited movie and a rather divisive series in Victory. Yes I know 0080 and Sentinel and a few other stories predate Stardust Memory, I still stand by my claim. Arc Hammer fucked around with this message at 02:37 on Sep 9, 2018 |
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2018 02:27
|
|
|
Shinn has potential as a rebuke of Kira's entire philosophy. You can't fight a war peacefully. Destiny as a whole has a lot of potential dealing with how the end of SEED didn't involve resolving any of the actual conflicts. Both sides just kinda ran out of super weapons at the same time, leaving the Three Ships Alliance the dominant force on the battlefield. Destiny starts out by saying that the peace treaty limited the number of MS either side could have, but that just drove both sides to develop more powerful MS. There's still plenty of rogue ZAFT forces who want revenge for the war crimes the Earth committed, and the Earth government is still full of Natural supremacists Destiny didn't just have potential, it started off actually making the most of that potential, and retroactively making the ending of SEED better by in-universe dealing with the flaws
|
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2018 02:38
|
|
|
Guy Goodbody posted:Shinn has potential as a rebuke of Kira's entire philosophy. You can't fight a war peacefully. Destiny as a whole has a lot of potential dealing with how the end of SEED didn't involve resolving any of the actual conflicts. Both sides just kinda ran out of super weapons at the same time, leaving the Three Ships Alliance the dominant force on the battlefield. Destiny starts out by saying that the peace treaty limited the number of MS either side could have, but that just drove both sides to develop more powerful MS. There's still plenty of rogue ZAFT forces who want revenge for the war crimes the Earth committed, and the Earth government is still full of Natural supremacists Destiny also did horribly by Kira himself. By the end of the series Kira had had a pretty bad shake-up because he couldn't save either the girl he kind of liked or the cool father figure who mentored him, and the evil dude he defeated has more or less been proven totally correct in his view of the world. Kira finding out he accidentally killed a family of civilians (back before they changed who was responsible for killing the Asukas) would have been another really nasty blow to him, and seeing him move forward even from all that could have made a nice parallel to the setting hopefully working past all the ugliness we see in the Cosmic Era. That didn't happen. Destiny ended WAY dumber and simpler than it should have been basically, and the fact it looked like it was going to progress the story and setting in a smart way for a while is why people talk about Destiny's potential.
|
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2018 03:39
|
|
|
What frustrates me about Destiny is that we're never going to get the full story on why it turned out like it did. Everything we know about its production comes from second-hand or third-hand sources as well as some heavy conjecture from looking at the stuff we know. I would honestly love to see something like a 30 for 30 on Destiny, mostly because as Omnicrom said, the series was taking the smart direction with its new cast and story but then decided to regress and go stupid. Hell, you could do a series of 30 for 30s on the franchise as a whole: the original series' cancellation and revival thru the compilation movies, Victory being made while Tomino was under extreme emotional and mental stress, Wing having to stall things after firing the original writer, the various side stories/manga that have expanded on the time periods they're set in, AGE being a video game before being turned into a show by Sunrise execs, the list goes on.
|
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2018 04:02
|
|
|
Guy Goodbody posted:Shinn has potential as a rebuke of Kira's entire philosophy. You can't fight a war peacefully. Destiny as a whole has a lot of potential dealing with how the end of SEED didn't involve resolving any of the actual conflicts. Both sides just kinda ran out of super weapons at the same time, leaving the Three Ships Alliance the dominant force on the battlefield. Destiny starts out by saying that the peace treaty limited the number of MS either side could have, but that just drove both sides to develop more powerful MS. There's still plenty of rogue ZAFT forces who want revenge for the war crimes the Earth committed, and the Earth government is still full of Natural supremacists The (extremely good) Break the World arc at the start is the best example of this. That entire arc is about a bunch of bitter-beyond-saving ZAFT war veterans(who lost their entire families in a genocide attack by the Alliance) deciding to take final vengeance on the Earth for that by dropping the bombed out colony that used to be their home on the planet, because the causes behind the war were never actually addressed and none of the perpetrators were ever brought to justice. It really hammers home that the big battle at the end of SEED didn't actually solve a single thing besides temporarily averting species extinction via superweapon exchanges. SEED cracked open the door to the idea that maybe Absolute Pacifism(or Kira's variant of it) isn't actually going to solve the problems at hand or end the conflict with Kira's singular failure to accomplish literally anything besides killing Rau(who was basically trying to die). Destiny blew that door wide open by showing that despite the fact that the protagonists "won" at the end of SEED, they didn't actually "win" anything. I'm firmly convinced that this was the original plan at some point because Athrun breaking from Kira and friends and rejoining ZAFT makes literally no sense if there wasn't actually meant to be some sort of significant conflict between Athrun's ideals and Kira's, which there never really is in the finished product; the one time Athrun directly challenges Kira, Kira rips him apart and the matter is done with.
|
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2018 06:26
|
|
|
I've said it before, but I still find it hilarious that we've had several series by this point that are post apocalyptic in nature and pretty much all of them are nowhere near as bleak as SEED and Destiny are
|
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2018 06:53
|
|
|
drrockso20 posted:I've said it before, but I still find it hilarious that we've had several series by this point that are post apocalyptic in nature and pretty much all of them are nowhere near as bleak as SEED and Destiny are That's because post apocalypses can only go up from there. SEED and SEED Destiny are very much pre-apocalypse if not for some timely action by Lacus Clyne (and her killbots) to prevent said apocalypse since just about everyone else has a massive murder boner.
|
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2018 07:43
|
|
|
drrockso20 posted:I've said it before, but I still find it hilarious that we've had several series by this point that are post apocalyptic in nature and pretty much all of them are nowhere near as bleak as SEED and Destiny are IBO's interesting there in that it's one of the bleakest settings on a personal level (IBO: Where the childhood friend casually describes being tortured as less bad than her childhood in a brothel!), while being one of the less horrific settings on a wider level. It helps that, while a lot of people in power in IBO are monsters, they're mostly rational(ish) actors, with no particular genocidal ambitions. Honestly, I think the total series death count might not even hit six digits. Also, there's still time on the clock, but Build Divers does feel like one of the worse Gundam shows. It doesn't even have interesting ideas, and the thing it sold itself on initially (big, tactical ten-on-ten battles)... hasn't happened. At most, it's been five on five, and we got, what, two of those? If you're generous?
|
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2018 08:29
|
|
|
chiasaur11 posted:Also, there's still time on the clock, but Build Divers does feel like one of the worse Gundam shows. It doesn't even have interesting ideas, and the thing it sold itself on initially (big, tactical ten-on-ten battles)... hasn't happened. At most, it's been five on five, and we got, what, two of those? If you're generous? 'We'll have big battles for our Gundam Build Fighters sequels! Three-on-three, no wait, ten-on-ten!' -later- 'Huh. Turns out animating and blocking poo poo for double digit combatants is kinda hard to do. Go figure.'
|
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2018 08:52
|
|
|
Honestly what kills Build Divers for me is that the leads are just dull. As someone pointed out once Riku and Yukki are kind of the same person across two bodies, and they absolutely cannot carry the show. Build Fighters had a fantastic cast. Build Fighters Try had a pretty good cast that went to waste every second Sekai was on screen because he's dull as poo poo. Build Divers flat out doesn't have a good cast, which means its hypothetical real strength (the setting) goes to waste. This current probably final arc is heavily predicated on caring about what happens to the characters, and I really don't. Basically what I'm saying is that I wish Keiichi Sigsawa was really into Gunpla and had offered to write the series.
|
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2018 14:49
|
|
|
Arcsquad12 posted:F91 was the first attempt at a big break from Feddie Zeon conflict and it got sidelined by a show that doubled down on hyper Zeon fanaticism and probably more than anything got UC Gundam stuck in a recursive loop of One Year War stories. I'm pretty sure the failure of F91 and Victory to gain any major traction and the success of Unicorn is what caused it really. After Victory Sunrise started making obvious AU shows to draw in new audiences, while occasionally putting out some Zeon stuff, including 0083 to keep the older fans happy; after Unicorn's success though, they've started increasing the speed they pump Zeon stuff out at. It was 4 years between the end of 0083 and 08th MS Team, and another couple of years till MS Igloo. Unicorn's animation wrapped up in 2014, yet we've already had Thunderbolt and the Origin animations since then, while Narrative is only a few months away. Sunrise has already announced plans for a Unicorn sequel too. Gundam 0083 didn't precipitate any new drive for Zeon stuff, it was just one more entry. Unicorn seems to be the one responsible for an uptick in Zeon stuff. Guy Goodbody posted:Shinn has potential as a rebuke of Kira's entire philosophy. The potential being described seems to tie quite closely to how people feel about SEED and/or Kira, and it's just not something I've ever been bothered about so I suppose that's why I don't care about any potential in Destiny. AradoBalanga posted:Hell, you could do a series of 30 for 30s on the franchise as a whole: Wing having to stall things after firing the original writer I don't know where this rumor got started, but that's all it is. Katsuyuki Sumisawa was the head writer for all of Gundam Wing TV. Not only was he the lead writer for all of it, he's the writer for basically every Wing related thing you know. He wrote the Episode Zero manga, Endless Waltz, Frozen Teardrop and the Glory of the Losers manga adaptation of the TV show. There's a couple of manga he had no explicit part in, like Blind Target and Tiel's Impulse, but all the major stuff is him. There's translated interviews like this where he talks about how difficult writing the finale was as well. What did happen is that the director quit part way through the show, so that could be the production issue that caused them to have to ditch the flashback episodes in favor of some recaps if it was a production issue. The new director, Shinji Takamatsu was never credited for one reason or another, and instead the old director Masashi Ikeda continued to be credited during the show but articles on the show commonly cite this and Sumisawa has mentioned it happening during interview. He mentions here that it happened around the half way point too, so it's likely the cause for the flashbacks never making it to screen. tsob fucked around with this message at 15:01 on Sep 9, 2018 |
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2018 14:56
|
|
|
tsob posted:The potential being described seems to tie quite closely to how people feel about SEED and/or Kira, and it's just not something I've ever been bothered about so I suppose that's why I don't care about any potential in Destiny. I mean, if you don't care about anything in SEED and you don't care about the protagonist, it probably follows that you're not going to give a poo poo about a sequel that focuses heavily on that stuff. Like someone who doesn't like Char or give a poo poo about him isn't going to give much of a crap about Quattro in Zeta or CCA in general.
|
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2018 15:05
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 24, 2024 15:25 |
|
|
Destiny doesn't focus heavily on Kira in the beginning though. He's barely in it before episode 12. Even Athrun isn't given a huge amount of focus.
|
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2018 15:08
|
|